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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
In fact, look at the wording of the option for faith:



"Act of dedication". If we pick faith we will dedicate ourselves to Him.

I'm becoming more convinced that the faith option is the servant of Ranald option and prudence is the status quo option.

Weirdly, that's making me more inclined to vote faith.
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And its pushed me a billion miles further away from it.
 
[X] Faith

I normally prefer taking the wizardly option over the Ranaldite option, but in matters Divine I'd prefer to have Ranald's back.
 
[x] Faith

I would rather not risk our relationship with our oldest friend. Plus, I don't Mathilde to become the Warhammer equivalent of Prometheus.
 
Glau said:
Catching up- had the point been raised that the gods have good reason for secrecy? They have enemies, and last time humans got deep into the secrets of gods, gods died.

So I would worry about opening up vulnerabilities if we record this: can you imagine how much the chaos gods would love to be able to pretend to be Sigmar or Ulric? Or how vulnerable Sigmar might be to a treacherous piece of "himself"?
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If the chaos gods are minded to do that they do not need us to teach them how, Tzeench is the god of magic. Now they could steal our library of god signatures, but the same goes about any other things of great worth we have like the Liber Mortis.
 
On the one hand, I am extremely curious about what the heck is going on with the Kurnous cult and the situation with Dum. On the other, I also have no confidence that we won't start collecting Godly energies like Pokemon (Mathilde's first thought was the flame of Ulric, which... we don't even have a reason to do except curiosity).

I think I'll just abstain from this vote.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
In fact, look at the wording of the option for faith:



"Act of dedication". If we pick faith we will dedicate ourselves to Him.

I'm becoming more convinced that the faith option is the servant of Ranald option and prudence is the status quo option.

Weirdly, that's making me more inclined to vote faith.
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I read it more as just a continuation of their current relationship, personally; Mathilde's already done plenty of acts that were dedicated to Ranald in some way (the mass gamble-off, building the temple, etc), after all.
 
Glau said:
Catching up- had the point been raised that the gods have good reason for secrecy? They have enemies, and last time humans got deep into the secrets of gods, gods died.

So I would worry about opening up vulnerabilities if we record this: can you imagine how much the chaos gods would love to be able to pretend to be Sigmar or Ulric? Or how vulnerable Sigmar might be to a treacherous piece of "himself"?
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A risk and if there comes a time that it looks like somebody is going to get at our research I will be first vote to destroy our research but at the moment we are already holding on to a secret of Gazul (which is probably similarly dangerous) in the tower and Mathilde once commented that our vaults are up to Dwarven secret keeping standarts so I optimistic in that we can keep it secret and unlike Nagash we are seeking the greater good rather than personal glory.

And killing Stormfels alone would make seas so much safer, we don't even need to go after others for this to be worth it.
 
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Glau said:
Catching up- had the point been raised that the gods have good reason for secrecy? They have enemies, and last time humans got deep into the secrets of gods, gods died.

So I would worry about opening up vulnerabilities if we record this: can you imagine how much the chaos gods would love to be able to pretend to be Sigmar or Ulric? Or how vulnerable Sigmar might be to a treacherous piece of "himself"?
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And I would say that some gods dying would be very beneficial to the world.

The Horned Rat, Gork and Mork and the so many other evil gods exist. If we don't share the knowledge then we can avoid the issues you're talking about.

But we don't pursue it we lose potentially a massive step in potentially defending this world from Chaos.
 
DragonParadox said:
As far as I know you cannot, apparitions dissolve into the winds when killed and if wounded in reality bleed winds. It is only the half dead in a mirror state that provides stable AV in reality.
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Took me a while but I found the quote I was thinking of:
Boney said:
You would get at most one apparition's worth of goo from one apparition. The unique part Mathilde has is a constant, reliable supply that is unable to violently object, and it is only possible because of that specific apparition having a method of travelling between reality and the warp, and it was caught right in the middle of doing so in what is, to it, dozens of overlapping portals. That is what makes it able to regenerate but unable to escape. Trying to replicate that means playing silly buggers with extremely dangerous apparitions and portals to the Aethyr to try to replicate by sheer chance a vanishingly unlikely edge case, and can and should be considered impossible.
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Yup, this is turning out to be one of those votes. See you when the update drops (or pages are no longer generated in multitudes/day)

[X] Truth
[X] Faith
 
I'm wondering: Can we use the Coin (specifically Gambler) on Divinity Heists if we go with Truth? Because calling for his help and therefore attention on something he shouldn't know about (either for real or for deniability) is kind of dumb. It's possible that the Coin works by itself, but I wouldn't bet on it where the Gambler is concerned, because that seems to work by more intelligent means (but is correspondingly rare). The Prowler seems to be more autonomous, so probably not an issue (enough that I'd be willing to risk it, anyway).

Point is: We can't use the our best risk reduction method on the really risky thing with Truth.
(really risky in the sense of really really really bad outcome on a slip, with uncertain but probably low likelyhood of a slip, and 'can't use' in the sense that using it would be serious risk of a bad outcome).

It does help that Mathilde would be opening new frontiers of criming, and commiting a crime where none one knows it's even possible and no traces are left behind is about as safe as crimes against the gods are ever gonna be.
And also the god of coincidences likes her, so he's not fucking with her on general principles like what might happen to a chaos dude.
 
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VoiceOfTheRiders said:
That was my point. If we want to we can choose to do it or choose not to do it. We can't guarantee that future votes will go one way or another.
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And my point is that doing things because its possible that future votes might randomly veer off a certain way is kind of ridiculous.

This is the same argument from the Liber Mortis, and none of the things people were afraid of came to pass.
Half the arguments against it was that even if people said they wouldn't use it for necromancy now that might randomly change in the future.

Its been years and yet we've somehow never raised the dead.
 
Guile said:
On the one hand, I am extremely curious about what the heck is going on with the Kurnous cult and the situation with Dum. On the other, I also have no confidence that we won't start collecting Godly energies like Pokemon (our first thought was the flame of Ulric).

I think I'll just abstain from this vote.
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The most obvious place to start for divine energy collection would be the shrine of Mannslieb we looted from the Kul, since that requires no AP expenditure beyond just "research the thing we have on our to-be-researched list." We would then be able to, at some point in the future, determine whether the fingerprint we take off the Mannslieb shrine is identical to a fingerprint we would collect at some point off an artifact of Manaan, thereby determining whether they're worshiping the same god or not.

That's kind of neat, I suppose, but I guess where I'm coming up short is "what next?" We can't really publish "the Kurgan are totally worshiping a 'civilized' god, but I can't present the evidence or even hint too hard about it because the gods may get super pissed about it." It's just... kind of neat. Cython would get a kick out of it, sure, but what do we do with that?
 
I was thinking more that by keeping the crystal, there's a chance someone is going to figure out how to kill Ranald through it. And forgive me if I don't believe Tzeetch could already do this- if he could kill gods, he would have by now, but the only example we have of anyone doing that is humans. And if we are trusting that dwarves will keep our stuff safe... I think that betrayal is a much larger risk than is apparent. There are, after all, order gods that probably would be happy to see Ranald dead, and their adherents would pass any loyalty tests the dwarves would set up.
 
NavySeel said:
And my point is that doing things because its possible that future votes might randomly veer off a certain way is kind of ridiculous.

This is the same argument from the Liber Mortis, and none of the things people were afraid of came to pass.
Half the arguments against it was that even if people said they wouldn't use it for necromancy now that might randomly change in the future.

Its been years and yet we've somehow never raised the dead.
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The argument I was initially addressing was stating that we wouldn't go any further along a particular path. I argue that we can't guarantee that. My argument wasn't an argument to vote for Faith, it was a counter to a poor argument in favour of Truth.
 
Glau said:
I was thinking more that by keeping the crystal, there's a chance someone is going to figure out how to kill Ranald through it. And forgive me if I don't believe Tzeetch could already do this- if he could kill gods, he would have by now, but the only example we have of anyone doing that is humans. And if we are trusting that dwarves will keep our stuff safe... I think that betrayal is a much larger risk than is apparent. There are, after all, order gods that probably would be happy to see Ranald dead, and their adherents would pass any loyalty tests the dwarves would set up.
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How did you reach that deeply specific conclusion? That is like saying 'we kept one of Panoramia's locks as a keepsake while away, that means Neferata is going to use it to kill her'.
 
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