Every person allowed into the hierarchy was chosen and indoctrinated by someone who benefits from the continued existence of the hierarchy. They bring in people who will either keep their head down and serve, or who will rejoice in the opportunity to lord over their own corner of the pyramid.
There might be some sort of metaphor about IRL societies in here somewhere.
Fair enough- then that's true, and I'd imagine even such things as "people change over time" would be mitigated by vampiric soul conditions.
It does sort of beg for an omake about vampire selection criteria, and how they fight over the meekest and quietest rule-followers as the most desired ones. Vampire Moe nerd girls are a go.
The ultimate victory of course would be to set up a city where vampires and mortals live in harmony
There would be stringent laws against eating people and other such things, and we could establish a blood tax, and use zombies for labour so everyone can live in luxury
I mean, everyone living in luxury aside, you're more or less describing the Empire of Strygos, before a combination of orcs and Neferata's spiteful meddling destroyed the place.
I mean, everyone living in luxury aside, you're more or less describing the Empire of Strygos, before a combination of orcs and Neferata's spiteful meddling destroyed the place.
The ultimate victory of course would be to set up a city where vampires and mortals live in harmony
There would be stringent laws against eating people and other such things, and we could establish a blood tax, and use zombies for labour so everyone can live in luxury
Zombies are made with Dhar, zombies leek Dhar all over the place and poison your kingdom and your population (which is incidentally part of the way you get ghouls). Wide scale use of lesser undead for civilian purposes is not compatible with a healthy populace, at least not necromantic undead. The tomb kings might be able to do it if you know they land was not cursed by Nagash.
That said back to the vampires, blood tax is better than gold tax is part of the reason why Sylvania was so down with Emperor Vlad back in the day. Of course Vlad was rather exceptional because he actually made the system fair and something people could live with. Most vampires are not Vlad and lack his administrative skills or sense of justice, most of them are lazy assholes without even the whit to treat humans as chattel, they just treat them as prey to be hunted at their leisure.
But wait it gets worse, even if you can sort of manage such a society, like in Strygos, well you are not going to have many friends what with your state being based on unholy magic so you will be isolated and alone before the dangers of the world. Strygos was killed by orcs and human tribes stirred to war by Neferata and to this day its people wander.
Actually wait a second... there is another source of magic lore if we are feeling bold, the Stygany. Given how hard up they are for money we might even be able to outright buy the aid of one of their (highly illegal) magicians.
Ok, question. What do we think it would take to lift the curse of Nagash?
Like, most of it comes from the river getting poisoned, right? Vastly speculative tier goals, but if WEBMAT gets to the point it can siphon off a curse like that then Pan might be a really good expert for reseeding the desert with progressively more life.
Ok, question. What do we think it would take to lift the curse of Nagash?
Like, most of it comes from the river getting poisoned, right? Vastly speculative tier goals, but if WEBMAT gets to the point it can siphon off a curse like that then Pan might be a really good expert for reseeding the desert with progressively more life.
I think you might need to restore the dead gods of Khemri, particularly the ones whose domain is fertility and the land. Also you might have to destroy the Black Pyramid since the thing is drawing vast amounts of Dhar to the land like some kind of anti-Waystone. That in turn would mean fighting Nagash so yeah... not likely to happen.
I think you might need to restore the dead gods of Khemri, particularly the ones whose domain is fertility and the land. Also you might have to destroy the Black Pyramid since the thing is drawing vast amounts of Dhar to the land like some kind of anti-Waystone. That in turn would mean fighting Nagash so yeah... not likely to happen.
Where are you even getting the fact that the gods are dead? The Nehekharan book says that the gods "abandoned them" when Settra is revived, but Khalida still has Asaph's blessing. Karitamen is still sealed in by Asaph's glyphs. Apophas' curse is still active. The blessings of the gods still exist. The lore of Nehekhara is still usable. It seems to me that the Nehekharan gods are not dead, because there's clear evidence of their effects still inhabiting the world.
Where are you even getting the fact that the gods are dead? The Nehekharan book says that the gods "abandoned them" when Settra is revived, but Khalida still has Asaph's blessing. Karitamen is still sealed in by Asaph's glyphs. Apophas' curse is still active. The blessings of the gods still exist. The lore of Nehekhara is still usable. It seems to me that the Nehekharan gods are not dead, because there's clear evidence of their effects still inhabiting the world.
I said they were dead, as in consigned to the underworld, not gone. The gods of Nehekara are as dead as their people and the only ones who in death still holds meaningful power power is Usurian who is the god of the dead and still grudgingly grants access to the Lore of Nehekara to the Liche priests, the other gods are far more limited by their form.
Is killing Nagash permanently above or below defeating an Everchosen in single combat on Mathilde's list of things to do to comprehensively upstage Sigmar?
Is killing Nagash permanently above or below defeating an Everchosen in single combat on Mathilde's list of things to do to comprehensively upstage Sigmar?
Sigmar did in fact defeat an Everchosen in single combat, Morkar the Uniter, he did not however kill Nagash permanently, no one did. You can tell by the fact that the Great Necromancer is currently chilling in Nagashizar.
Sigmar did in fact defeat an Everchosen in single combat, Morkar the Uniter, he did not however kill Nagash permanently, no one did. You can tell by the fact that the Great Necromancer is currently chilling in Nagashizar.
Wouldn't at least someone from the Necrarch bloodline be curious about the potential of inhuman vampires? They seem like the sort to try, and they don't really operate on normal vampire conventions either, its lot looser for them.
I said they were dead, as in consigned to the underworld, not gone. The gods of Nehekara are as dead as their people and the only ones who in death still holds meaningful power power is Usurian who is the god of the dead and still grudgingly grants access to the Lore of Nehekara to the Liche priests, the other gods are far more limited by their form.
You make a lot of statements that you expect me to accept without appropriate evidence to back it up. There is nothing that says that Usirian "grudgingly grants access to the lore of Nehekhara". There is nothing that compares Morr to Usirian IC yet you stated that fact confidently yesterday. There is nothing that says the Gods of Nehekhara are dead, only that they "abandoned Nehekhara" (Pg. 16 Tomb Kings Army Book). Nothing says that the Nehekharan gods are much weaker but Usirian is the only one who remains in power. Every single Skeleton Archer in the army of Nehekhara is blessed by Asaph. That is the concept behind the "Arrows of Asaph" rule.
Necropolis Knights are blessed by Qu'aph, which explains how "deadly poison mysteriously drips" from the fangs of a damn statue. The Necrosphinxes are said by the Liche Priests to be animated by the breath of Usekph and Pha'a.
Also, there seems to be an inherent misunderstanding here on the nature of Liche Priests and their lore. The Lore of Nehekhara doesn't just invoke Usirian. In fact, of the seven spells available in the base army book, only one invokes him. There is also a spell for Khsar (desert winds), Djaf (Death and War), Neru (Moon), Ptra (Sun), Usekph and Sakhmet. Liche Priestdom has spells that invoke many other gods, not just Usirian.
You make a lot of statements that you expect me to accept without appropriate evidence to back it up. There is nothing that says that Usirian "grudgingly grants access to the lore of Nehekhara". There is nothing that compares Morr to Usirian IC yet you stated that fact confidently yesterday. There is nothing that says the Gods of Nehekhara are dead, only that they "abandoned Nehekhara" (Pg. 16 Tomb Kings Army Book). Nothing says that the Nehekharan gods are much weaker but Usirian is the only one who remains in power. Every single Skeleton Archer in the army of Nehekhara is blessed by Asaph. That is the concept behind the "Arrows of Asaph" rule.
Necropolis Knights are blessed by Qu'aph, which explains how "deadly poison mysteriously drips" from the fangs of a damn statue. The Necrosphinxes are said by the Liche Priests to be animated by the breath of Usekph and Pha'a.
Also, there seems to be an inherent misunderstanding here on the nature of Liche Priests and their lore. The Lore of Nehekhara doesn't just invoke Usirian. In fact, of the seven spells available in the base army book, only one invokes him. There is also a spell for Khsar (desert winds), Djaf (Death and War), Neru (Moon), Ptra (Sun), Usekph and Sakhmet. Liche Priestdom has spells that invoke many other gods, not just Usirian.
Rereading my post I might have been too aggressive. I was just irritated because there's a lot of stuff in the fandom that gets regurgitated a lot and it spread around so much that it forms up as the actual conception of canon when it's not necessarily the case. Sorry for the undue aggression.
And yes, the Mortuary Cult started as a way to make him immortal, but they practiced tons of different rites involving their gods too, so they're not really exclusive to Usirian.
Rereading my post I might have been too aggressive. I was just irritated because there's a lot of stuff in the fandom that gets regurgitated a lot and it spread around so much that it forms up as the actual conception of canon when it's not necessarily the case. Sorry for the undue aggression.
And yes, the Mortuary Cult started as a way to make him immortal, but they practiced tons of different rites involving their gods too, so they're not really exclusive to Usirian.
Seen as a rectangle/triangle combination, the "Miragliano Model," is a key to the fundamental principles of engineering (though most engineers fail to understand it). A true Academic could realise that the seven connected circles of the model are a Life Rune commonly found on obelisks of the Old Faith. [...]
Leonardo da Miragliano lent his support to the Fellowship of the Shroud with the use of this scheme as this model is needed to open the Miragliano Puzzle Box that is hidden in the Temple of Myrmidia of Wurtbad, inside a fresco. The temple was completed in 2011 IC as a place for the Tilean mercenaries to worship, the domed ceiling where the paint, named Myrmidia at the Tree of Hope is placed was Miragliano's last commissioned work before entering the Emperor's service.
This ingenious little box, made of brass and steel, was crafted by Miragliano to safeguard the secret of the Siegfriedhof druids. Miragliano understood Lanfranchi had wrongly persecuted the druids, but Miragliano withheld his revelations until the Vampire hysteria subsided. Miragliano's puzzle box has remained untouched for 500 years and bears only a tinge of rust.
Opening the box requires a deep knowledge of the Miragliano Model. Someone might recall the model as the pattern of triangles set within a druidic Life Rune. The box has many moving parts, which can be configured into different shapes. If solved, the box becomes a cube with a pyramid lid on one face. The box may be forced open with some effort, but doing so releases an acid that dissolves the scroll hidden within in little time.
Inside the box there is a tiny scroll with six words forming a circle of Classical script. Clockwise from the top, the words are: Portal, Man, Blood, Earth, Life, and Mother.
When Giovanni Lanfranchi built his outpost in Siegfriedhof a thousand years ago, a small congregation of druids lived in the nearby Hunger Wood. The druid ceremonies included a benign form of ritual sacrifice called the Circle of Life, wherein participants' commingled their blood to fertilise the earth. Upon receiving exaggerated reports of the Circle of Life ritual, Lanfranchi was appalled at the similarities with the sinister blood cults of Lahmia and dispatched the druids as if they were Vampires.
The infamous Circle of Life ritual was performed at a clearing in the Hunger Wood around a great Styrigen burial mound. Those visiting the mound during the day find it still and peaceful. A circle of five stone obelisks surrounds the mound, culminating at a great megalith portal on the south-eastern face. The megalith is inscribed with runes matching those on the Styrigen Tablets in the abbey's forbidden library, plus many others.
If one manages to interpret the runes, they may reveal the information relating to the Old Faith, potentially even the liturgical formula for the Circle of Life ritual. Such a discovery would surely enable the release and dispersal of the druidic ghosts from undeath.
At the peak of the tall burial mound sits a four-foot-high stone cairn. Allegedly, replacing the Styrigen Tablets in the correct sequence atop the cairn allows the Winds of Magic to once again flow freely through Hunger Wood.
Leonardo was familiar with Old Faith druids and knew their secrets. These specific Old Faith druids - from Siegfriedhof - built megaliths that allow the Winds of Magic to flow properly* and drain a dhar pool building up in Helfurt when their tablets** are placed in the correct order, an order which is outlined in the scroll Leonardo put in his box.
* WFRP 2e: The Thousand Thrones uses the word "leylines".
** WFRP 2e: The Thousand Thrones, page 173 says the tablets are written in a mix of archaic Tilean and Reikspiel. Wonderfully for Mathilde, she knows Old Reikspiel.
WFRP 2e: The Thousand Thrones, page 174
Page 184 gives us more information on the nature of the leylines and the effects of fixing everything up.
Miragliano Puzzle Box: Concealed at the Temple of Myrmidia in Wurtbad (see Temple of Myrmidia page 166) this box contains the secret to restoring the Styrigen Tablets (Handout #29) to the cairn on the mound near Siegfriedhof (see Styrigen Mound page 174). The cairn is part of an ancient leyline network built aeons ago by the Old Ones to siphon excess magic from the world before it stagnates and becomes dark magic, or Dhar. Repairing the cairn allows magic to once again flow freely through Hunger Wood. Although it takes many years for the saturation of Dhar in Hunger Wood to dissipate, the effect is immediately noticeable as far away as Helfurt, where Lydia's Dhar Pool (see Escape Tunnel and Dhar Pool page 181) is drained almost completely by the time the PCs arrive.
It seems the leyline network found throughout the world was built by the Old Ones, making it older than the Great Vortex and the waystones the elves and dwarves built. Was the Great Vortex made to take advantage of the existing leyline network or do the leylines help out as an unexpected beneficial consequence? Are the elven waystones original, a reverse-engineering of the Old Ones' work, or simply replication of their work? Have humans been maintaining the leylines since the Old Ones created humanity or did they take up that duty after they left? Did the gods set them up to that task?
Mathilde may be able to pull on this Leonardo string. Why? Take a look at his wargear.
<Leonardo da Miragliano>
Leonardo is neither a general nor a wizard. He is a scientist, and his genius is illuminated by the light of reason and method, not superstition! Therefore, Leonardo does not have magic items. Instead, he has Scientific Items, reflecting his expertise as an inventor and investigator. These items are not affected by anything that normally affects or negates magic items.
Prism of Power: Leonardo has a specially shaped glass prism which uses pure physical properties of refraction to diffuse any kind of energy flowing over the battlefield. The effect of this is to steal the winds of magic and dissipate the energy, just as if it were rays from the sun.
Compass of Meteoric Silver: Leonardo has a special compass with a direction arrow made from meteoric silver. This will point to the greatest concentration of magic on the battlefield.
Mathilde studied Leonardo's magical prisms back when she was a journeywoman to catch the wisdom's asp, the same kinds of prisms which the Prism of Power falls under. She knows he's learned in magical lore. If she were to recognise the Life Runes found on the obelisks she'll study as Miragliano's Model, she may realise Leonardo knows some very old magical lore. Furthermore, while researching Leonardo's inventions, she may have come across that Compass of Meteoric Silver he had, which bears some strong similarity with the Eonir's wayshards: another hint that Leonardo had some knowledge relevant to her project. Other engineers attached to the project (Johann perhaps) might recognise Leonardo's magical knowledge and how it could relate to the waystone/leyline network.
As a theological aside, we've got this from The Thousand Thrones, page 158:
Also, an obscure field of druidic lore has been linked with the Vampire prophecies, the most intriguing of which links the old Sun God Oermath—former husband of the Earth Mother Ishernos—with the Nehekharan Sun God Ptra. Scholars have claimed that Ishernos' sister, an obscure moon goddess, granted Nagash's apotheosis for some hidden purpose in the feud with Oermath.
The Earth Mother just seems to be a title for Ishernos. No mystery about whether they're one and the same or different gods. Intriguingly, Ishernos once had a sun god husband, which you wouldn't expect if Ishernos was simply an erring mix up of Isha and Kurnous. Ishernos apparently has a moon goddess sister and the sister doesn't like Ishernos' ex-husband, which I believe has parallels with on of Ptra's myths.
As a purely for-fun aside, we've got this:
"These are nice drawings. They are by your children, yes?"
—Reputed remarks of High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer, on being presented with a copy of the Notebooks of Leonardo da Miragliano by the Emperor Karl Franz
"A big part of the mystery is that the network isn't just an Elven creation. The heart of it was supposedly an adaptation of an already-existing network built by precursors to the Elves, which we know basically nothing of.
Mathilde already knows that the Waystones had a precursor, and Realms of Sorcery Pg. 41 says this:
"The best guess is the first of these lines of obelisks had been erected by the near-mythic Old Ones countless millennia before as both a means of travelling across the world in an instant and also to manage the trickles of magic they had used to shape the world to their design. These various obelisks (referred to most commonly as Waystones, although they are also referred to as Fay Stones, Elf Stones, and many others) lay upon fault-lines in reality, either natural or somehow created by the interference of the Old Ones."
In terms of Mathilde figuring out things about Miragliano? Might be a bit of a stretch unless we can somehow connect the dots on the topic of the Henges of Siegfriedhof and the Myrmidian Temple in Wurtbad. It's not like we have the Druids of the Jade Order yet to point us in that direction, and we don't exactly know if the Siegfriedhof Druids are part of the Jade Order now or they never joined.
Taal does seem to have ended up on top of the 'who's in charge' debate, but it's not quite that clear-cut. One mainstream theory is that they were originally patron gods of individual tribes - Ulric of the Teutogen, Taal of the Taleutens, and Rhya of possibly the Cherusen or the Asoborn - and that each was considered supreme by their tribe. Then when the tribes started talking to each other they had to figure out a way to make their Gods play nice together, and Taal and Rhya had the obvious way to combine voting blocs and Ulric got demoted. But not everybody accepts that, and Ulric is still worshipped as the Snow King by some. Another theory is that Taal and Rhya came pre-packaged as Ishernos and only split into separate gods later, possibly as a result of mankind learning to farm. Another is that Ulric was originally part of Ishernos, and the triskele motif often found on Runestones is a reference to this triad.
Maybe instead of Taal, Rhya, and Ulric, the triskele represented the Earth Mother Ishernos, the Sun God Oernath, and Ishernos' sister, the moon goddess? Earth, sun, and moon does sound like a triad that fits together.
Actually wait a second... there is another source of magic lore if we are feeling bold, the Stygany. Given how hard up they are for money we might even be able to outright buy the aid of one of their (highly illegal) magicians.
Nah, Settra set up an entirely separate cult devoted entirely to making him immortal, because he was that kinda guy and none of the actual priests were on board with the 'become equal to gods' deal. The gods each had their own Lores and everything, iirc all they provide now are blessings on holy statues and stuff. The Lore of Nehekhara is iirc, a modification of the priestly knowledge of Divine Magic to work off of the winds drawn by the Black Pyramid of Nagash after the Nehekharan Gods got fucked.
EDIT: Also something I found really neat from the ToL Nagash (I know I know, low in the canonicity rankings of the quest but I love it) series, is the (possibly quest-relevant) tidbit that even after the Nehekharan Gods got whammed, some priests could still cast, by using their Divine Marks (ie part of their souls) as fuel.
