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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
No sapient creature is born irredeemable.
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lancelot said:
Considering most Skaven lore has them being created in a manner a lot like Beastmen we'll have to agree to disagree there. More of a living curse instead of being cursed into being like Beastmen. But again that is canon so you might want to expand on the AU of their beginnings. Gods know your Dawi have little in common with canon, so the rats shouldn't be a surprise.
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Golden Eyed King said:
C'mon guys word of QM no one is born irredeemable, that means while beastmen and skaven and the other evil factions may be born halfway down the highway to heck they can be redeemed. It would just take an inordinate and impractical amount of time effort and resources to get even proof of concept let alone anything beyond that.
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Moreover, the entire beastmen and skaven "society" is chaotic evil. The member of those culture that theorically would want to change themselves would be murked by their fellows skaven or beastmen.
Essentially to redeem one beastman or skaven you need to isolate one "innocent" enough from their entire culture to allow them to develop a chance at redemption.
 
Boney said:
I've split fanart off from the character sheet threadmark into its own post.



It's not something I've fully explored, but Dwarven economics seem to revolve around the implicit belief in the intrinsic value of goods and resources, and their economic policy is based around the import of raw materials and the export of finished goods. Making money in a way that does not depend on the expertise of the Dwarf involved is seen as inherently dishonest. So I don't think mainstream Dwarven society would go in for moneylending as a way of making money, and would instead use it as a means of supporting Dwarves who have fallen on hard times in a way that the ego of said Dwarves can accept.



This is an extremely powerful image, thank you for it.
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You did have K8P acting as a bank of sorts prior to it's original fall, IIRC. Origin of the coin collection.
 
Staff Notice - Please be careful with this kind of rhetoric.
Boney said:
As a great philosopher once said: "The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." Yes, the Skaven are born with the Horned Rat's hooks in them that dooms them to being cogs in a horrible machine, but I don't think it requires any AU to say that the Horned Rat is not omnipotent.
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That's a nice thought that only works in the real world without magic, and gods. This is a setting where souls can and are literally born corrupted. You want to change that your taking a whole lot of the grimdark out of this.

You want to say they don't have to be that way that they can choose fine it's your quest, but honestly if they have any kind of choice and still choose this it just makes them more worthy of hatred, and death.
 
lancelot said:
That's a nice thought that only works in the real world without magic, and gods. This is a setting where souls can and are literally born corrupted. You want to change that your taking a whole lot of the grimdark out of this.

You want to say they don't have to be that way that they can choose fine it's your quest, but honestly if they have any kind of choice and still choose this it just makes them more worthy of hatred, and death.
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You know that their are changes to the setting already. Why make a stink about it and point it out? What your doing is literally pointless.
 
13th Bee said:
You did have K8P acting as a bank of sorts prior to it's original fall, IIRC. Origin of the coin collection.
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It charged a fee to protect the money of others, rather than lending those deposits out. That's why all that money was just sitting there, rather than having been in other peoples' pockets when K8P fell.

lancelot said:
That's a nice thought that only works in the real world without magic, and gods. This is a setting where souls can and are literally born corrupted. You want to change that your taking a whole lot of the grimdark out of this.
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For the record, I honestly don't give a single flying fuck about the sanctity of grimdark. That said, I disagree that this is a violation of the setting. Evil Gods canonically can and canonically have been thwarted. Even if you discount the retconned Storm of Chaos, there's still twelve previous Everchosen where the Chaos Gods went all in on destroying the world and failed. And the Horned Rat is lesser than any one Chaos God, let alone all four.

lancelot said:
You want to say they don't have to be that way that they can choose fine it's your quest, but honestly if they have any kind of choice and still choose this it just makes them more worthy of hatred, and death.
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It really, really doesn't. It makes them more worthy of pity, in that they could have been something more but were twisted by the circumstances of their upbringing into what they are now. There's a scene in the novel Headtaker where Sleek Sharpwit, former Warlord of Clan Mors, laments that the Horned Rat prevents the Skaven from developing history and culture. I don't see how anyone could read that and still think that Sleek could never have been anything but evil.
 
I remember when it was revealed that using the Dragon Stone we got for Belebro could lead to someone ending up permanently as a dragon.

IC, it'd be considered a fate worse than death by many.

OOC, we were like "ok, but where's the downside tho?"
 
I patiently await the moment people realize that a sufficiently skilled illusionist could disguise herself as a dragon, and that sufficient Ulgu could potentially make an illusion temporarily real.

That was a lie; I'm passive-aggressively hinting at it.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
I remember when it was revealed that using the Dragon Stone we got for Belebro could lead to someone ending up permanently as a dragon.

IC, it'd be considered a fate worse than death by many.

OOC, we were like "ok, but where's the downside tho?"
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As I recall, the downside was that they would lose their mind, slowly becoming more and more beast like. Also that was the common opinion. A Wizard Lord would probably be different.
Ganurath said:
I patiently await the moment people realize that a sufficiently skilled illusionist could disguise herself as a dragon, and that sufficient Ulgu could potentially make an illusion temporarily real.

That was a lie; I'm passive-aggressively hinting at it.
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If we had less of a backlog I would totally be on board with trying to create a spell for it. As it is we have a lot of obligations and more generally useful things to do first.
 
Ganurath said:
I patiently await the moment people realize that a sufficiently skilled illusionist could disguise herself as a dragon, and that sufficient Ulgu could potentially make an illusion temporarily real.

That was a lie; I'm passive-aggressively hinting at it.
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I think the "make an illusion real" would violate the Burrito Principle. Even if it was temporary.
 
picklepikkl said:
Let me answer your question with another question: if Boney gave us a vote which had, as one of the options, "become an Ulgu dragon," how hard do you think it would win?
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Somehow the vote for Dragon gets more votes than there are members of this forum. Despite intensive auditing by the staff due to the mathematical impossibility, the result stands.


Omegahugger's counter vote achieves double digits after Boney confirms that embracing Ulgu to that extent will make it impossible to even indirectly touch Shyish to the degree needed to bring Abelhelm back.
 
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