Depends on which period of real life arabic history the WHFB Araby copies. Islamic Golden age? Sure, a lot of texts. Later periods of islamic reactionism- not so much. Then again, as far as I know there is very little information on Araby so the answer would be up to Boney.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Oh yeah, the Islamic golden age is a fantastic period for knowledge and learning, and with any luck Araby has gone through something similar. Might be tricky importing some stuff, especially since we don't speak the language yet, but our Barak Varr bookseller hasn't failed us yet, and employing someone who speaks the language shouldn't be too hard.
Codex
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Kitab Al Filaha is the book of Agriculture, made by an Andalusian farmer and was one of the most comprehensive texts of its time on farming practices. It goes really in depth and is about 1000 pages. It's available online for free in Spanish, Arabic and French.
Al-Zahrawi is a famous Arab Physician, Chemist and Surgeon from the 10th century, his book the "Kitab Al-Tasrif" was a 30 volume medical encyclopedia that was translated to Latin and became a standard textbook for european medicine for about 500 years. He developed the practice of using catgut for internal stitches, figured out the hereditary nature of hemophilia, figured out the root cause of paralysis, and made surgical solutions to cataracts and abdominal incisions for pregnancy (Caesarian surgery).
Ibn Al-Furat's book was one of the least biased takes on history available at the time, describing ancient kingdoms and dynasties.
There is absolutely no reason for Islam to exist in WHF, and in fact I would be incredibly irritated if it was. Christianity and Judaism don't exist, so I see no reason for Islam to do so as well.
Absolutely. WHat I meant is that Araby is copying historical Middle Eastm which had different attitudes and opinions about secular books and knowldege depending on the exact time period. As such, it would be logical to assume that Araby could also be portrayed in different way with regards to books and knowledge, depending on which exact periond of history it is copying. References to Islam were only there as references to those actual periods in history.
Codex
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Ah in that case, there are examples of the books I'm reading about WHF describing Arabyan society as containing a tradition of Alchemy and Sorcery that is relatively widespread enough to have its own institutions, and I'm willing to bet the reason that there aren't all that many Arabyan Magisters in the Empire is that Araby has its own magical tradtions and does not prosecute and burn their magic sensitive people instantly as the Empire used to.
My impression of what GW is doing is that they're generally copying the Islamic Golden Age when it comes to Araby, as the terms Alchemist and Mystic come up very often (and I'm pretty sure those terms started to go out of use after the Golden Age).
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I think Araby is in the same boat as Cathay, as in there is too little to go on, so don't make Boney worldbuild everything.
I suspect the closest we'll be getting to Araby lore is if we decide to go into researching apparitions.
Coming to think of it, apparition binding would be a good way to build bridges with the sorcerers of Araby. Show the smol Grey Magister some neat binding tricks, and you'll win an advocate for your magical tradition in the Empire.
Codex
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I don't want Boney to worldbuild everything. All I want is a mention that there's plenty of available knowledge to acquire from Araby. Importing books and translating them aren't exactly the same scale as making a full fledged society.
Also, here's an excerpt from an Arabyan Magister from Realms of Sorcery to indicate the general idea of Araby's knowledge base:
"I was once like you, though born far to south and east in the lands this good Empire knows as Araby. As with many scholars of my homeland, I was accomplished in the study of numbers and chemistry, and I was both a physician and herbalist of surpassing skill. Yet though I did not realise it for many a year, I was also gifted with a sensitivity to the Aethyr's Coloured Winds. I will not speak of the day that this gift and curse (for you all know it is both) was made manifest to my peers and I, for it is a day I have long tried to forget."
From the text above, it indicates that scholarly study is relatively common in Araby, so the accumulation of knowledge would be too.
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Political science as a discipline basically started from an Islamic (Egyptian/Moroccan author, I think?) text too, let me see if I can dig up the name...
Edit: I believe it is al-Masudi (ʾAbū al-Ḥasan ʿAlī ibn al-Ḥusayn) that I was thinking of.
Edit: I believe it is al-Masudi (ʾAbū al-Ḥasan ʿAlī ibn al-Ḥusayn) that I was thinking of.
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I think that's about as likely as Mathilde sharing grey magic secrets with them.
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You think she wouldn't try anyway?
Edit: but also, Araby magicians are the way they are because the winds blow weakly in Araby, so grey magic would not be as useful to them.
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- Australia
I do think the decently diplomatic grey wizard won't attempt to insult a wizard by asking them to reveal the secrets of how their magic works in exchange for exposure.
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I think you're putting words in my mouth by alluding to it being the same as working for free.
Imo: A wizard that has managed to bind an apparition and wants to talk shop would be received quite differently from one simply out for their secrets.
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The payment you're advocating is literally Mathilde talking about how cool the Arabyan wizard's magic is. (The magic she herself now has by the way.)
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Personally I think you are severely undervaluing a Lord Magister (and a grey, no less!) coming firmly down on the "they are not demonologists" side of the argument, since it is a live argument and demonologists get burned at the stake when they are found.
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I think you're severely overvaluing how much some Arabyan wizard cares about what the Empire thinks of the magic they're doing in Araby, and woefully underestimating how much they value their magical secrets.
Mopman43
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Nah, he's said in the past Araby has enough to work with, though it'd be harder.
So, not something to do lightly, but at least possible.
RE: Araby and knowledge, Balthazar Gelt studied Alchemy there before he came to the Colleges of Magic.
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Mathilde can start the very long process of ascertaining how suitable the Arabyan sorcerers are to joining the colleges of magic, after confirming that they are not demonologists by learning some of their methods and techniques.
Which would give them protection under the imperial articles of magic while in the empire.
Much more robust protection for travelling sorcerers than "political expediency".
The Magicians of Araby apparently focus on binding djinn to perform magic for them because the Winds are a lot weaker so conventional spellcasting isn't as viable.
Interestingly, the Mortuary Cult also investigated the binding of djinn as part of their research into the nature of the soul as part of the pursuit of immortality.
I think that's just fan speculation. I think Realms of Sorcery does mention that the Gold College has learned some Arabian alchemy though. This is probably conventional alchemy though, not the Thaumaturgical Alchemy Teclis taught them.
Interestingly, the Mortuary Cult also investigated the binding of djinn as part of their research into the nature of the soul as part of the pursuit of immortality.
I think that's just fan speculation. I think Realms of Sorcery does mention that the Gold College has learned some Arabian alchemy though. This is probably conventional alchemy though, not the Thaumaturgical Alchemy Teclis taught them.
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Mopman43
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Page 95 of RoS, it says he traveled through Araby (and other places) and learned Alchemy from whatever masters he could get to teach him.
I just found out where the 'one in a thousand can see magic, one in a thousand of those can use magic' quoit came from.
It's a MTG line about how rare a planeswalker is.
the numbers are different, and whoever started it changed 'spark' to 'magic'
But otherwise it's word for word MTG.
It's a MTG line about how rare a planeswalker is.
the numbers are different, and whoever started it changed 'spark' to 'magic'
But otherwise it's word for word MTG.
Burned_Cookie
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I mean, it´s not the most unique way of phrasing things, so it`s not all that surprising to have overlap.
Yeah, in MtG one in a million people are born with the "spark", the thing that lets you planeswalk, but only one in a million people with the spark will ignite it and become a planeswalker.
Those are some very silly numbers (one in a trillion chance of being an active planeswalker) but because the MtG universe is infinite it's sort of easy to suspend your disbelief over it. Hell, the plane of Ravnica alone is probably big enough to produce a dozen or so native planeswalkers, even before you take into account its status as the crossroads of the multiverse.
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Just remember that the geographic importance if WH Araby is a very different one from the Arab world of IRL history. The Arabs were at the fulcrum between east and west. Araby here only ever covered the equivalent of Northeast Africa, with Egypt being a death world, the Middle East Orc land and Persia and surroundings belonging to Chaos Dwarves and more Greenskins all since before Araby ever was a thing in this world.
I'd be surprised if the Arabyans are anything like the Arabs beyond superficial cultural aesthetics.
Codex
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GW forced in the Crusades into Warhammer despite there being no need to shove it in in the first place. They didn't need to throw in a real life historical event into their lore, but they did.
If they're going to start throwing around the Crusades into their setting, I'd expect some compensation in the form of them also properly representing the positive effects of Arabian societies. Instead of having them around just to be evil slavers and crusade dummies.
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First of all, I knew that (IIRC) Bretonnia crusaded against Araby at some point, but I don't know why or to what ends. So I can't speak towards how much those crusades were like actual crusades and how much they just randomly share the name. I think Araby also has had various clashes with Estalia, making them seem a lot like the westernmost Arabs vs Iberia.
Second, I am not in any way saying that Araby should not have any positive and admirable traits. Just that there's little reason to pull from IRL Muslim history to get that. Araby is the closest to a Human successor nation to Nehekhara. That's quite a good reason to be advanced in science, culture and mysticism.
But the Muslim Arabs still were in a very different situation. Most of their early conquests were against two very established prosperous empires. They had continuous cultural influence from the East, Northwest and South. They absorbed a very large number of cultures and expanded their religion deep into Asia and Africa. They were a bastion of science when Christian Europe wasn't.
Araby instead probably has a history of vying first with Tylos and then with its two highly splintered successors over who is dominant within the uncorrupted provinces of the fallen Nehekharan empire. Those two nations, other than being their repeated rivals, would also be their main cultural contact and trading partners since many many centuries. But where Tilea and Estalia would be heavily influenced by Bretonnia, the Empire and the Dwarves, Araby would be heavily influenced by all the lost treasures and secrets of their ancestors right next door and maybe have semi-frequent contact with the denizens to the South on their continent.
Then there is the question of other historical equivalents. During the time where the Holy Roman Empire used things like guns, the preeminent Muslim power nearby was the Ottoman Empire. Araby is located in the general area of Morocco, Libya, Algeria and Tunisia, but geographically extended to the rest of Northwest Africa, down to roughly Cameroon. So, nowhere near the Silk Road for instance, but instead a nation or federation of some kind with broad access to the Atlantic Sea equivalent and very open to trade with Elves.