Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Getting improved shielding now serves dual purposes. First, it means that we have it available while makibg our ship, to its hopeful benefit.
Second, it's generally staying ahead of the demon. If it's down then great, we kick it while it's down! If it's a ruse, we foil it.
Very good results for 60RP.
Second, it's generally staying ahead of the demon. If it's down then great, we kick it while it's down! If it's a ruse, we foil it.
Very good results for 60RP.
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Also we can go back to the monasteries and hand them the improvements for another shot at the minor psykers. I do not think they the first choice of many people, but since non-bridge crew isn't limited by anything besides space on the ship there is no reason not to take them if we can. I mean once we develop say pyromantic or telekinetic tech it would be helpful to make more pyromancers and telekinetics even if they are not heroic. And out there in the galaxy there won't be many people willing to hand us sane psykers.
- Location
- Boston
Alectai, we both left out the savings from machine spirit bots from CP calculations, even without the ground efficiency research we can afford to get more plants:
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]2950 BP to ship
-Construction 3 (8350 BP)
--[]11,300 / 33, 650BP
It would ramp slightly slower than yours, but would net us an extra 1,650 BP over the build cycle (2700 surplus vs 1050). Which would net us an extra destroyer on the final build action if we wanted.
As for our Psy-bean, when it comes to the best story. I am a huge fan of people overcoming/healing from trauma, which makes me a big fan of the Seer. It would be a lot of work and AP commitments on our part. It sounds like we would need to start going down the medicine tree to find Therapy/clone a puppy, along with implants to help filter bad thoughts, plus shields small enough she can wear. Also counting in the diplo actions needed to help her adjust and I expect she would easily require ~10 actions over the next 10 turns. All that being said, helping someone come back to themselves would be an excellent story I would love to read.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
That is a compelling story, I have to admit. It does involve a lot of commitment though, and I'm a little leery of running headfirst into the whole 'Here's a brain implant to help you deal with the bad thoughts' thing. We're *not* an affini, lets keep in mind... XD
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- Location
- Boston
Agreed, there are a whole host of ethical and moral issues along the way. Part of why I think it is the most interesting story is because it is the hardest.
On the plan front, I've narrowed down to two ideas.
First Plan is if we want to research the scrapcode this turn. We get improved shielding and then upgrade our shields (and the prison) with the new tech. Then we dive in while the Scrapcode / Bongo is tired. The update says his energy is at the lowest it's ever been, so now seems like the time to strike. We will always somewhat be at the mercy of a bad roll here, no amount of tech will protect from that. But IF we fail (unlikely), it will hopefully do less damage when tired. If we succeed, then we have start getting damage reduction versus scrap code.
[] Plan: Build our Ship, andResearch Scrapcode Play with Bongo
-[]Research 1
--[] The Basics of Psytech (55/100 -> 5 + 40 RP)
---Axena assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (100 RP)
--[] You don't need no stinkin' medical school (50 RP)
--[] Intro to Genetics (45/100)
-[]Research 2
--[] Scrapcode Research (200 RP)
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]500 BP for Psy-shield upgrades (old ship -> new ship -> bongo's prision)
--[]SHIP 2450 BP + overflow
-Note: Flagship costs 33,650 BP. Needs another 4 construction actions, will have 3,350 BP leftover
The second plan is if we want to go full bore on building our ship and plan for a large fleet afterwards. We take 4 construction actions, ramp industry like crazy, drop down a large shipyard to help with the mothership build and then get to it. This would leave us with one flex action next turn.
[] Plan: Build our Ship, Build our Fleet
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]Orbital Observatory – Built at Denva L2 point (200 VBP)
--[]Large Shipyard (0 -> 2,750 BP)
-[]Construction 3 (8,350 BP):
--Large Shipyard (2,750 -> 10,000 BP)
--Start ship (1,100 BP)
-[]Construction 4 (8,350 BP):
--Build ship (1,100 -> 9,450 BP)
-Note: Flagship will cost 31,150 BP with shipyard. Needs another 3 construction actions will have 3,350 BP leftover
As always, I look forward to thoughts/suggestions/feedback.
On the plan front, I've narrowed down to two ideas.
First Plan is if we want to research the scrapcode this turn. We get improved shielding and then upgrade our shields (and the prison) with the new tech. Then we dive in while the Scrapcode / Bongo is tired. The update says his energy is at the lowest it's ever been, so now seems like the time to strike. We will always somewhat be at the mercy of a bad roll here, no amount of tech will protect from that. But IF we fail (unlikely), it will hopefully do less damage when tired. If we succeed, then we have start getting damage reduction versus scrap code.
[] Plan: Build our Ship, and
-[]Research 1
--[] The Basics of Psytech (55/100 -> 5 + 40 RP)
---Axena assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (100 RP)
--[] You don't need no stinkin' medical school (50 RP)
--[] Intro to Genetics (45/100)
-[]Research 2
--[] Scrapcode Research (200 RP)
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]500 BP for Psy-shield upgrades (old ship -> new ship -> bongo's prision)
--[]SHIP 2450 BP + overflow
-Note: Flagship costs 33,650 BP. Needs another 4 construction actions, will have 3,350 BP leftover
The second plan is if we want to go full bore on building our ship and plan for a large fleet afterwards. We take 4 construction actions, ramp industry like crazy, drop down a large shipyard to help with the mothership build and then get to it. This would leave us with one flex action next turn.
[] Plan: Build our Ship, Build our Fleet
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]Orbital Observatory – Built at Denva L2 point (200 VBP)
--[]Large Shipyard (0 -> 2,750 BP)
-[]Construction 3 (8,350 BP):
--Large Shipyard (2,750 -> 10,000 BP)
--Start ship (1,100 BP)
-[]Construction 4 (8,350 BP):
--Build ship (1,100 -> 9,450 BP)
-Note: Flagship will cost 31,150 BP with shipyard. Needs another 3 construction actions will have 3,350 BP leftover
As always, I look forward to thoughts/suggestions/feedback.
Or she has her soul eaten before we can do any of that. I cannot stress enough how dangerous it is to be a psyker in 40K or how much worse dragging someone though the warp makes it. Hell is might be even worse than it would be on an equivalent Imperial ship since they have apparently made some gellar field improvements per the QM. Don't just plan for success, plan for the possibility of failure. What happens if she dies or suffers a fate worse than death? Vita and the rest of the crew would know that she was the least stable option and they took her anyway. Even if any psyker would have suffered the same fate, say it's a literal nat 1, they would have no way of knowing that.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
...Hmm. Does that work for our flagship? If so, it saves us 2500... Still pricey at 7500, though. Don't think I can fit that in my plan, and I really want to get the efficiency researches and all the manufactories my plan builds. I hadn't considered it though, interesting to see it in the wild.
- Location
- California
I'm not interested in having our Crew slots mostly all full by the time we leave Denva. I want to leave it open for other people out there in the galaxy. One of these is more than enough.
A heavy cruiser is 32 slots, the large shipyard has 64 slots - whether a grand cruiser is 64 slots or more than that I'm not sure.
Sounds like that shipyard only pays off if we're going to build additional cruisers before leaving or a big flotilla of smaller craft...
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Or we really, really want to leave Denva with a large shipyard, I suppose. Be a while before they can make really good use of it... Hell, be a while before *we* can make really good use of it. With my incredibly aggressive manufactory building, I think I still fall a little short of fully utilizing a medium shipyard building small system monitors. And we'd swamp our CP pretty quick, doing that, too... :/
Edit: No, scratch that, I fall way short. We'd need: 2375 VBP x 8 Small Monitors in production simultaneously = 19000 VBP to fully utilize a medium shipyard. And that doesn't count VBP spent for our existing small shipyard, or on anything that doesn't go through a shipyard...
I get slightly closer if we were building tiny monitors, but still 1/3rd short: 950 VBP * 16 Tiny Monitor = 15200 VBP to fully utilize a medium shipyard, versus the 10600 BP we'd have after my plan. So, a large one seems like a rather unnecessary investment.
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Well, you can also build crewed ships, which might be a very good idea if churning out system monitors since the motivating AI isn't sticking around indefinitely.
Who is able to crew them, ideally without abusing them or wrecking them, might pose some issues.
But unless producing heavy cruisers, cheaping down to a medium shipyard might be attractive...
EDIT: Can we even use more than one FTL ship at this point? We didn't finish setting up Void Abacus production, right?
Actually, even if we did, can we run more than one AI ship through warp when we're only one AI? Wouldn't that require some communication tech to keep control of the subordinate vessels during the journey?
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- Location
- Boston
A grand cruiser takes 64 build slots so the large shipyard would give us a 2500 BP discount.
The real benefit is in following turns allowing us to build additional ships. Our current shipyard only has four build slots which only supports up to frigate class ships. If we want anything larger we will need to build another shipyard. Building it before our mothership is the best value since we discount it by the 2500.
I'm not sure if we need heavy cruiser class ships after this, but if we want them this is the most cost efficient way to pick up the shipyard.
If we just want light cruisers we can pick up a medium shipyard after the build for 3,000 BP to get 16 build slots.
It also does leave Denva with a large shipyard to help kickstart their black navy.
The real benefit is in following turns allowing us to build additional ships. Our current shipyard only has four build slots which only supports up to frigate class ships. If we want anything larger we will need to build another shipyard. Building it before our mothership is the best value since we discount it by the 2500.
I'm not sure if we need heavy cruiser class ships after this, but if we want them this is the most cost efficient way to pick up the shipyard.
If we just want light cruisers we can pick up a medium shipyard after the build for 3,000 BP to get 16 build slots.
It also does leave Denva with a large shipyard to help kickstart their black navy.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I don't think the 2500 BP discount is worth the extra expense and difficulty. It still leaves us spending 7500 extra RP - and if it takes us 2 or more actions to get good use out of them, which it almost certainly will, then we'd have been better off just building manufactories with that BP instead. Or at least, something else we can actually find a more immediate use for. :/
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- Location
- Boston
From a straight BP view I absolutely agree with you. However ship construction required build slots in addition to BP, so if we want to build a lot of ship or cruisers we will need to invest in more yard space.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We don't have to do it this instant though.
Stick to the schedule, we can work on stretch goals once our flagship is done.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
A bunch of light/heavy cruisers with some manufactories built into them could always come in handy when it's time to finally skedaddle, will mean we'll be able to build things on the fly and not have to rely as much upon empty systems to build ourselves up.
That, and the shipyard might come in handy for both giving the Denvans the means to build their own defense fleets (very important considering their neighbourhood is crowded, although I'm not sure if we'll be able to give them the instructions to building a warp abacus before we leave since that requires a research action) as well as letting them become a port of call that we can use to repair and rebuild our fleet whenever we come back to the system.
I'll go with this vote and probably pick Cia / Pyro
That, and the shipyard might come in handy for both giving the Denvans the means to build their own defense fleets (very important considering their neighbourhood is crowded, although I'm not sure if we'll be able to give them the instructions to building a warp abacus before we leave since that requires a research action) as well as letting them become a port of call that we can use to repair and rebuild our fleet whenever we come back to the system.
I'll go with this vote and probably pick Cia / Pyro
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
We don't have the BP to build a lot of ships, though. I just demonstrated we couldn't fully utilize even a medium shipyard. And if we want to build cruisers, we need to design them first, which is a whole nother expense. And thats to say nothing of clearing the BP to actually *use* said ships, which will take yet more time and effort...
Anyway, reposting my plan for convenience, now with a database action:
[] Plan: Improved Manufactories To Build The Ship:
-[] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[] Look for information on nearby xenos, both friendly and hostile.
-[] Research 1 (Completed before building Manufactories, hopefully discounting their CP)
--[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP)
--[] Manufacturing Machine Spirits (60 + 40 RP)
---[] Anexa assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (60 RP, unless needed to boost results for earlier research)
--[] You don't need no stinkin' medical school (30 RP, unless needed to boost results for earlier research)
-[] Construction 1 (3500 GBP, 1350 VBP, 3500 Lift, 4850 BP total):
--[] 48 Manufactory (100 GBP, 50 CP) --- (4,800 GBP, 2,400 CP) (4055 left, barring CP discounts from tech)
--[] 2.5 Shuttles (20 GBP, 5 CP) --- (50 GBP, 15 CP) (570 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech) (+150 Lift capacity, pending spceports)
-[] Construction 2 (5900 GBP, 1350 VBP, 3500 Lift, 7250 BP total):
--[] 67 Manufactory (100 GBP, 50 CP) --- (6,700 GBP, 3,350 CP) (705 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech)
--[] 2 Spaceport (100 GBP, 25 CP) --- (200 GBP, 50 CP) (655 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech)
--[] 17.5 Shuttle (20 GBP, 5 CP) --- (350 GBP, 85 CP) (570 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech) (+1000 Lift capacity = 4500)
-[] Construction 3 (9250 GBP, 1350 VBP, 4500 Lift Capacity, 10,600 BP total)
--[] 10 Spaceport (100 GBP, 25 CP) --- (1000 GBP, 250 CP) (320 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech)
--[] 95 Shuttle (20 GBP, 5 CP) --- (1900 GBP, 475 CP) (-170 CP left, barring CP discounts from tech) (+4750 Lift capacity = 9250)
--[] 500 GBP for Psy-shield upgrades
--[] 1250 GBP for various bribes, uplift assistance, and other forms of commercial lubrication, including refitting manufactories for machine spirits to reduce CP costs.)
--[] Trade goods (100 GBP)
--[] Ship!: 5850/33,650 VBP
-[] Anexa active Action: Research - assists a research action you take, granting +5xLevel RP to the action. Will level on successful roll, scaled by the importance of the tech.
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & communication - Defends against covert action, as well as gathering information on your foes and keeping communication channels open with any allies present. Will only level if something interesting happens.
And:
[] Diplomat-spy: Victan's active action bonus can be applied to all diplomacy rolls, including first contact with a new culture. Victan's only been able to be included on these diplomacy rolls thus far becuase he's a local, and has contacts inside Aevon he can use for diplomacy. If you go somewhere new he'll be limited to just being a spy without this.
[] Cia Steblin, confidant pyromancer. Zeta (11)
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Finishing the main ship should be priority number one, two and however more numerals you want to add.
Afterwards we can think about building more ships, recruiting more psikers or whatever. And If we can get it done by turn 19 instead of 20, all the better.
Really liked the characterization of the potential recruits, by the way, I was pretty sure that Cia had this on the bag, but honestly Ker really looks like the most compatible candidate,he wants to be an explorer, which fits more with Vita than Cia "fire for the fire god" actitud. Also, the idea of being able to move moons by himself as an endgame habilitat had me interested, add some biomancy and we have a one man terraformation team.
Afterwards we can think about building more ships, recruiting more psikers or whatever. And If we can get it done by turn 19 instead of 20, all the better.
Really liked the characterization of the potential recruits, by the way, I was pretty sure that Cia had this on the bag, but honestly Ker really looks like the most compatible candidate,he wants to be an explorer, which fits more with Vita than Cia "fire for the fire god" actitud. Also, the idea of being able to move moons by himself as an endgame habilitat had me interested, add some biomancy and we have a one man terraformation team.
For the sake of my own sanity, I am going to pretend I didn't understood that reference.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
GMEI? No, CP isn't our bottleneck right now, so it's not really expanding our potential much at all?
It explicitly doesn't increase BP efficiency, only CP efficiency, and our CP is... Well, increasing, but we've still got plenty of wiggle room for the next few turns, so I'd rather knock some other projects over that might provide discounts in other fields if we get lucky.
It explicitly doesn't increase BP efficiency, only CP efficiency, and our CP is... Well, increasing, but we've still got plenty of wiggle room for the next few turns, so I'd rather knock some other projects over that might provide discounts in other fields if we get lucky.
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If we want to in the future build a battleship or similar having an existing shipyard would be a good idea as will support faster building for that
A large shipyard would probably do nothing for building a battleship in the same way that a small shipyard is doing nothing to build a grand cruiser.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
It allows us to fit more BP under our CP cap, and given we could hit that cap in an action or two if we wanted, that gives us a lot more wiggle room.
As for discounts, GMEI might give discounts to other manufacturing techs, including MMS. Personally, I want to focus our technological development on machine spirits, with psy shielding coming second, and medical stuff after that... But I want lots of lots of BP to throw at our problems, first and foremost. I take it you;re leaning more towards psytech and medical tech?