Counterpoint: the Scouring worked pretty well, though granted that was before the Age of Apostasy made the Imperium even more shit at everything.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Counterpoint: the Scouring worked pretty well, though granted that was before the Age of Apostasy made the Imperium even more shit at everything.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Ehhh, it didn't actually kill the traitor legions, it merely drove them into the eye of terror. And it was far from the end of the imperium's problems with chaos. I dunno, I give it a 7/10, max. And even that is probably being generous...
They also tried to delete them from history, and generally did a whole lot of damage to themselves in the name of fighting chaos, without actually implementing any long term solutions. Seems counterproductive, IMO.
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- Location
- United Kingdom
You could replace a couple of orbital manufactories with 3 defense satellites, some man-portable jammers and the rest in Trade Goods and replacing the bots we lost? Hell, if we plan on using the station even partially for manufactories there's not much point in building any separately.
Even so managing to drive them into the Eye guaranteed some semblance of peace for millennia to come. Given how many advantages Chaos had on them at that point up to and including everyone's ships having to travel though Chaos' turf to get anywhere it was still mildly impressive. Again though this is pre-War of the Beast, pre-Age of Apostasy, they have gotten a lot worse (efficiency-wise) since then. Morally they always were the worst.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I think it's worthwhile to have some... I dunno though, I'd be perfectly happy to go down to only building three void manufactories. Not sure we need three defense satellites... And I'd like more ground manufactories, too. Not just the 5 to meet lift capacity, but some more for doing stuff on planet.
Hmm. yeah, they sure do. I did mean for it to be more efficent to build on planets than in space at the cost of needing lift capacity, and making you defend your manufacturing from orbital bombardment and ground battles. But this is too much. I think I'm going to add a tech to address this issue:
-[] Void Manufacturing Efficiency (50 RP) Now that you've built your first void manufacturing platform, you realize that there are much more efficient ways to do it. Especially in acquiring raw material - you can just send out some light tugs to grab inner-system comets and asteroids instead of building the infrastructure to haul raw materials up from the surface before refining them. (Halves the BP cost of Orbital Manufactories & Deep Space Manufactories).
This should bring the cost of 10x orbital manufactories down to 2500, which is still higher than the ground-based solutions but no longer quite as imbalanced in the favor of ground construction. And don't sleep on the Deep-Space Manufactories, they're the hardest to destroy and most CP-efficient method of production.
Eh they're pretty normal Imperium space platform designs. You could probably remake it but it would be similar price to building a new habitat out from scratch.
Other people have gotten it - scrap code countermeasures are smaller psychic shields (you could outfit each bot with one, though it would be expensive), machine spirits (since they can resist chaos stuff) or maybe intelligence coding.
- Location
- Boston
@Neablis, would the Void Manufacturing Efficiency stack with the discount if we take the industrial station? (making those Manufactories 125 BP?)
Also, could we do a goldilocks option with the station to do half people / half factories. Something like ~2million people, 25 manufactories, and medium shipyard?
Also, could we do a goldilocks option with the station to do half people / half factories. Something like ~2million people, 25 manufactories, and medium shipyard?
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
@meianmaru I am 99% confident you will want to modify your plan in light of this new option. Might I suggest:
-[] Research x1 (200 + 25 RP)
--[] A Study in Physics (125/150 -> 150/150 RP)
--[] Void Manufacturing Efficiency (50 RP)
---[] Anexa assists (+25 RP)
--[] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (35/200 -> 185/200 RP)
--[] The workings of a Void Abacus (Any overflow from unexpected cost reductions, if applicable/200 RP)
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[] Plan Investing into future help and friends for our Techbean
-[][Klyssar's Nest] Reserve it for a Mechanicus Enclave Vita wants to found.
--[]40 orbital manufactories + 1 million people
-[][Sigulus] Send her home She'll be happy to integrate back into one of the damaged enclaves on Denva secundus.
-[] Action1: Diplomacy
--[] With Anexa, search cogitare exploratum for members that would fit well as tech Staff for you future ship/fleet, to become the core of the to-be-founded Explorators Enclave.
---[] Important qualifiers: Scientific curiosity, willingness to share and cooperate, compatibility with Anexa (and Victan+Vita), with the unlikeliness of finding an universal genius like Anexa: A diverse set of specializations
-[][Anexa] Search cogitare exploratum for potential colleagues (see Vita diplo action)
-[][Victan] Subversion: Use his experience with cogitare exploratum to support the search for future Explorators Enclave members
-[] Action 2: Research (200RP)
--[] Organic-Machine control (200 RP) Allows you to hook humans into your own command-and-control loop, allowing you to turn over command duties of various bots to humans - though they'll only be able to command combat units. (Unlocks brain implants that allow a human to control some number of CP worth of combat bots/ships. There are more technologies to allow humans to command larger ships/manufacturing systems as well)
-[] Action 3: Orders, capture the command center (intact of possible)
-[] Action 4: Build (3250 BP)
--[] half cost medium shipyard 2500 BP
--[] 3 half cost orbital manufactories (3*250 BP=750 BP)
@Neablis
do those write-ins Work?
Action 3 is a place holder for taking the rest of the station.
To the rest of the Quest:
Very open to compromise on the last action.
Want the machine control to be able to get the "control manufactories" before we found the Enclave, both so they Help with the CP cost, so they use it narratively, and so they Take the "Humans controlling Machines Like that" thing for granted as Ancient tech and don't start suspecting AI Vita before we decide to reveal it.
The searching staff/friends for Vita action is important to me.
-[][Klyssar's Nest] Reserve it for a Mechanicus Enclave Vita wants to found.
--[]40 orbital manufactories + 1 million people
-[][Sigulus] Send her home She'll be happy to integrate back into one of the damaged enclaves on Denva secundus.
-[] Action1: Diplomacy
--[] With Anexa, search cogitare exploratum for members that would fit well as tech Staff for you future ship/fleet, to become the core of the to-be-founded Explorators Enclave.
---[] Important qualifiers: Scientific curiosity, willingness to share and cooperate, compatibility with Anexa (and Victan+Vita), with the unlikeliness of finding an universal genius like Anexa: A diverse set of specializations
-[][Anexa] Search cogitare exploratum for potential colleagues (see Vita diplo action)
-[][Victan] Subversion: Use his experience with cogitare exploratum to support the search for future Explorators Enclave members
-[] Action 2: Research (200RP)
--[] Organic-Machine control (200 RP) Allows you to hook humans into your own command-and-control loop, allowing you to turn over command duties of various bots to humans - though they'll only be able to command combat units. (Unlocks brain implants that allow a human to control some number of CP worth of combat bots/ships. There are more technologies to allow humans to command larger ships/manufacturing systems as well)
-[] Action 3: Orders, capture the command center (intact of possible)
-[] Action 4: Build (3250 BP)
--[] half cost medium shipyard 2500 BP
--[] 3 half cost orbital manufactories (3*250 BP=750 BP)
@Neablis
do those write-ins Work?
Action 3 is a place holder for taking the rest of the station.
To the rest of the Quest:
Very open to compromise on the last action.
Want the machine control to be able to get the "control manufactories" before we found the Enclave, both so they Help with the CP cost, so they use it narratively, and so they Take the "Humans controlling Machines Like that" thing for granted as Ancient tech and don't start suspecting AI Vita before we decide to reveal it.
The searching staff/friends for Vita action is important to me.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Huh, really?
I had assumed void infra to be more vulnerable, not less, because we need to build dedicated weapon sats or ships to guard it as opposed to the very cheap defensive systems.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Do we get our +20 bonus to it if we have Vita effectively finish it alone?
- Location
- Boston
I like most of @meianmaru 's plan, but I think the station should be turned into a factory since that will help us more in the short term and will help the planet more in the long term. Also despite saying the opposite earlier I think we can afford a turn without diplomacy, give the world some time to sort themselves out before we start pushing more changes. Victan's passive action should help keep an eye on things.
This will let us cram in a second research option, which seems important with the new Efficiency tech. With these extra RP we can also knock out organs, and make enough progress on the mini mind shields that a single action will finish it.
Taking the factory option + efficiency will drastically reduce the cost of Void Factories, so I added two defensive sats to the que just incase.
[] Plan: Space Factories Make More Factories + Science
-[] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[] You are interested about the monasteries of Denva and the psykers that they hold, but know little about the psychic individuals beyond the bare basics. That they are seen as a danger for everyone and are ostracized for it. However, you lack the concrete facts about what they can actually do, and on what scale. So you are going to take a look into the classification the Imperium and the Inquisition use, named charmingly "The Assignment". I mean really, how bad it can be?
-[] Orders (Klyssar's Nest): Conquer and explore the rest of Klyssar's nest. Use your light/medium bots to soak the losses to preserve your heavy bots where you can. More than that, try to preserve as much of the station as you can, even if it causes heavier losses for your bots.
-[] Construction (3300 BP = 3250 GBC (3500 LC) + 50 VBC)
--[] Construction slot, 1st (3300 BP)
---[] Repair Psychic Shielding: 95/100 -> 100/100 (50 BBP)
---[] Replenish Combat Losses (35 GBP)
---[] Trade goods, Aevon (50 GBP)
---[] Humanized Heavy Infantry Bots w/ MP-MSJ (125 GBP, 200 CP)
---[] 5x Manufactory (total 500 GBP, 250 CP)
---[] 2x Basic Defense Satellites (1 in orbit, 1 at the Station) (total 600 VBP, 20 CP)
---[] 15x Orbital Manufactory (total 1875 void VBP, 50 CP)
-[] Research x1 (200 + 25 RP)
--[] A Study in Physics (125/150 -> 150/150 RP)
--[] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (35/200 -> 200/200 RP)
---[] Anexa assists (+25 RP)
--[] The workings of a Void Abacus (35/200 RP)
-[] Research x2 (200 RP)
--[] Void Manufacturing Efficiency (50 RP)
--[] Organ replacements, Redux (50 RP)
--[] Miniaturized psychic shielding: (0 -> 100 / 300 RP)
-[] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 50 -> 25)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (Secrets of the Machine Spirits)
-[] Victan passive action:
-[] Klyssar's Nest
--[] Goldilocks option: Can we split the station for 2 million people, 25 manufactories and a medium shipyard?
---[] If not, Use it for Industry
-[] Sigulus
--[] Send her home
This will let us cram in a second research option, which seems important with the new Efficiency tech. With these extra RP we can also knock out organs, and make enough progress on the mini mind shields that a single action will finish it.
Taking the factory option + efficiency will drastically reduce the cost of Void Factories, so I added two defensive sats to the que just incase.
[] Plan: Space Factories Make More Factories + Science
-[] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[] You are interested about the monasteries of Denva and the psykers that they hold, but know little about the psychic individuals beyond the bare basics. That they are seen as a danger for everyone and are ostracized for it. However, you lack the concrete facts about what they can actually do, and on what scale. So you are going to take a look into the classification the Imperium and the Inquisition use, named charmingly "The Assignment". I mean really, how bad it can be?
-[] Orders (Klyssar's Nest): Conquer and explore the rest of Klyssar's nest. Use your light/medium bots to soak the losses to preserve your heavy bots where you can. More than that, try to preserve as much of the station as you can, even if it causes heavier losses for your bots.
-[] Construction (3300 BP = 3250 GBC (3500 LC) + 50 VBC)
--[] Construction slot, 1st (3300 BP)
---[] Repair Psychic Shielding: 95/100 -> 100/100 (50 BBP)
---[] Replenish Combat Losses (35 GBP)
---[] Trade goods, Aevon (50 GBP)
---[] Humanized Heavy Infantry Bots w/ MP-MSJ (125 GBP, 200 CP)
---[] 5x Manufactory (total 500 GBP, 250 CP)
---[] 2x Basic Defense Satellites (1 in orbit, 1 at the Station) (total 600 VBP, 20 CP)
---[] 15x Orbital Manufactory (total 1875 void VBP, 50 CP)
-[] Research x1 (200 + 25 RP)
--[] A Study in Physics (125/150 -> 150/150 RP)
--[] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (35/200 -> 200/200 RP)
---[] Anexa assists (+25 RP)
--[] The workings of a Void Abacus (35/200 RP)
-[] Research x2 (200 RP)
--[] Void Manufacturing Efficiency (50 RP)
--[] Organ replacements, Redux (50 RP)
--[] Miniaturized psychic shielding: (0 -> 100 / 300 RP)
-[] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 50 -> 25)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (Secrets of the Machine Spirits)
-[] Victan passive action:
-[] Klyssar's Nest
--[] Goldilocks option: Can we split the station for 2 million people, 25 manufactories and a medium shipyard?
---[] If not, Use it for Industry
-[] Sigulus
--[] Send her home
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I am not sold on dumping the diplomacy action. We were explicitly told that things weren't going great diplomatically, we should intervene to try and improve them, like Victan suggested. I'm not sold on using the station to do so, but we need to do *something*.
Yes and yes.
They're distributed and hidden in the asteroid belt. It would take a number of ships a long time to track them down. While (absent a void shield and orbital defenses) only a single orbital bombardment is needed to destroy all of your ground-based manufacturing.
Looks fine - I'd basically have that action be establishing the enclave outright, with Anexa in command. Do you mean her to be the permanent commander or just setting it up until you leave?
This is fine, you'll get your bonus to the research roll.
- Location
- Boston
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
That's precisely what we don't want to happen, though. If we let them stabilize, they'll stabilize in a bad way, and it will be harder to make improvements. We need to strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Ok, new plan-draft ready. Also shifted 25 trade good bribes to Aevon rent stockpile, so that we have one turn's worth of it. Useful if we want to skip construction actions altogether for some reasons, even if I think its unlikely. Still costs us very little, so I included it. Also, didn't see the need for overflow in this case, as I don't really seen any big synergies in researched tech. And even if it somehow ended up happening, I believe that @Neablis would let us put that in use without it going into a waste, even if overflow-use wasn't mentioned in the plan, right?
[] Plan: Dividing the Space Station Cake
-[] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[] You are interested about the monasteries of Denva and the psykers that they hold, but know little about the psychic individuals beyond the bare basics. That they are seen as a danger for everyone and are ostracized for it. However, you lack the concrete facts about what they can actually do, and on what scale. So you are going to take a look into the classification the Imperium and the Inquisition use, named charmingly "The Assignment". I mean really, how bad it can be?
-[] Orders (Klyssar's Nest): Conquer and explore the rest of Klyssar's nest. Use your light/medium bots to soak the losses to preserve your heavy bots where you can. More than that, try to preserve as much of the station as you can, even if it causes heavier losses for your bots.
-[] Diplomacy/Subversion (Denva): Contact Aevon about your analysis on the reaction the other nations are likely to have to their advantage in the long-term. Work together to avoid this. Dangle Klyssar's nest as a prize for nations who cooperate with each other, with Aevon presenting the idea. A neutral ground divided equally between the nations who come to an agreement for at least some form of permanent unified political forum... With those who don't do so of course being left out of the initial cutting and sharing of the space-station-cake. Bribe people with whatever non-military goods required where needed (Aevon itself included if it comes to that) to sweeten the deal.
-[] Construction (3300 BP = 3250 GBC (3500 LC) + 50 VBC)
--[] Construction slot, 1st (3300 BP)
---[] Repair Psychic Shielding: 95/100 -> 100/100 (50 BBP)
---[] Replenish Combat Losses (35 GBP)
---[] Trade goods, Aevon (50 GBP)
---[] Trade goods, bribes (40 GBP)
---[] Humanized Heavy Infantry Bots w/ MP-MSJ (125 GBP, 200 CP)
---[] 5x Manufactory (100 GBP, 50 CP)
---[] 5x Orbital Manufactory (500 void VBP, 50 CP)
-[] Research x1 (200 + 25 RP)
--[] A Study in Physics (125/150 -> 150/150 RP)
---[] Anexa assists (+25 RP)
--[] Void Manufacturing Efficiency (50 RP)
--[] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (35/200 -> 185/200 RP)
-[] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 25 -> 0)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (A Study in Physics)
-[] Victan active action: Subversion (Denva)
-[] Klyssar's Nest
--[] Use it for People
-[] Sigulus
--[] Send her home
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I do actually like the whole 'Split the station between people and industry' idea, though. Probably better for Denva, too?
- Location
- Boston
You might be right on that, statesman I am not.
How would you feel about dropping construction from the turn plan for:
-Order
-Diplo
-Research
-Research
-Hold on the station for a turn
This would let us get everything in order and would also let us open the last mystery boxes on the station before committing to a path with it.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
No, I think we need construction, too. We should just accept only a single research action. The research will still be there next turn.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm personally a bit "meh" on the idea. Preserving the space station as not only a living space but a symbol/prize for cooperation is what I want to go with. If people want, they can use my plan as a base and do the required modifications for it to fit their needs.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Oh, also, the manufactories get cheaper this turn if we research the tch this turn, pretty sure. So you could get twice as many, or spend some of those BP elsewhere. I reccommend a few ground manufactories, a couple extra void ones, and maybe a bunch more bribes?
Different things will happen. If you roll well and have an overflow designated then extra RP will go into the thing you've designated overflow as you finish early. If you roll well and don't have one designated than the extra RP will discount further/related techs, likely in aggregate more than they would towards the overflow because they're related.
With the orbital efficency tech these will be 250 bp, yes?
Different. It would certainly do more to immediately bootstrap them to orbital infastructure. But it would be less of a political symbol because if you want Denva as a whole to commit to space expansion then you want the largest, most vibrant community you can get up there.
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