Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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My take on the construction action:

-[ ] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[ ] 15x Manufactory (-1500 BP, -750 CP)
--[ ] 1x Spaceports (-100 BP, -25 CP)
--[ ] 10x Shuttles (-200 BP, -250 CP)
--[ ] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[ ] Klyssar's Nest Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using mechanicus infrastructure this turn)
--[ ] Technological support, associated payments and bribes for diploversion actions, and Rent (-430 BP)
--[ ] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)

Neablis said:
It's ok, though I think I would prefer a bit more direction, and for you to split out the diplomacy actions into individual thrusts for the purposes of rolls and choosing where the Victan bonus is. Probably half on mechanicus, half on the nations of Denva. They can certainly co-reference each other.
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Okay, gotcha. Lets see:

-[] Diplomacy, Mechanicus, 1 action:
--[] End the mechanicus tech monopoly.
--[] Try and arrange for the mechanicus to have a stable and productive long term position, so as to head off future conflict and integrate them with the rest of the planet.
--[] Begin investigating Klyssars nest and get more information on it.
--[] Technological Uplift: We're not going to close the entire tech gap, but we should make a dent in the most important parts of it, especially general life support - manufacturing, housing, food, medicine, and communications.
-[] Diplomacy, Denva, 1 action:
--[] Technological Uplift: We're not going to close the entire tech gap, but we should make a dent in the most important parts of it, especially general life support - manufacturing, housing, food, medicine, and communications.
--[] Create some kind of United Nations, and other international institutions that can help the nations of Denva avoid conflict and societal decay and decline, including economic and environmental problems.
--[] Establish a system of publishing houses, covering art, science, journalism, and anything else that comes up, to support our efforts. Try to avoid stepping on the existing publishing industry too hard while we're at it.
--[] Begin trying to get a handle on the problem of Chaos, and at least setup some kind of a system to keep watch for it.
--[] Begin investigating the enclaves and get more information on them, and involve the nations of Denva in this process. We ultimately want them to be as well integrated with Denvan society as is reasonably possible.

Not actually sure which of these to put Victan on. Might be best to cut the last two parts from the second one, and just accept that those have to come later? We're doing a lot already, so there might be no way around that... :/

Also!

Neablis said:
-[] Advanced Materials (300 RP) You know there are exotic elements with absurd physical properties. But it's also possible to build absurdly strong materials with common elements. How does that work? Time to dust off some ancient research projects and figure this stuff out. (Unlocks improved armor, as well as research to unlock megastructures. Also required for battleships and larger walkers)
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Here's the thing for megastructures. Should probably get physics first, I agree with prime on that.
 
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ArticulateJargon said:
@Neablis im fairly sure I saw this asked beforehand, but what would it take to make a space elevator? I don't see anything about it in any of the blueprints or researches.
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And @Neablis I'm asking specifically about the alternative ideas that don't require any super materials as well! Like:

-Lofstrom Loop & Momentum Exchange Tether combo
-multi-tether type space elevator
-orbital ring
-tethered ring; this one should only require ground BP

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVygC6tnOmQ


Stuff that cannot be built in a hidden way and requires a lot of space and cooperation of others.
 
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The author on space elevators:

Neablis said:
Very possible. I've added a research to the tree:
-[] Advanced Materials (300 RP) You know there are exotic elements with absurd physical properties. But it's also possible to build absurdly strong materials with common elements. How does that work? Time to dust off some ancient research projects and figure this stuff out. (Unlocks improved armor, as well as research to unlock megastructures. Also required for battleships and larger walkers)

You'll have to design megastructures individually, but a space elevator is going to be something like (50,000 ground BP, 25,000 void BP, 500 CP) and be able to convert 50,000 ground BP to void BP. Or something. I need to game the numbers a bit.
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Gavinfoxx said:
And @Neablis I'm asking specifically about the alternative ideas that don't require any super materials as well! Like:

-Lofstrom Loop & Momentum Exchange Tether combo
-multi-tether type space elevator
-orbital ring
-tethered ring
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Oh, I dunno. We'd probably need even more void BP, and the engineering for the blueprints might cost more RP than just getting the super materials, honestly. :/
 
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I think that's way below our level of abstraction Gavin. "Space Elevator costs X and does Y" doesn't mean that a different Space Elevator is somehow going to be cheap and not require prerequisite research.
 
Speedemon22 said:
If we are going heavy on the shuttles, then we should research Shuttle automation to cut down on the CP costs.
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I want to get Secrets of the Machine Spirits first... Also, not actually sure we're gonna go in heavy on the shuttles, we might jump for a megastructure or something. Actually, an idea:
--[] Gauge interest in building a space elevator or other megastructure as like, a symbol of planetary unity, with the mechanicus and all the nations of Denva working together on the project, with your help.
 
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I don't want to commit to a megaproject like that, it's a gigantic overlay in resources for not really enough gain at this stage of things.
 
Alectai said:
I don't want to commit to a megaproject like that, it's a gigantic overlay in resources for not really enough gain at this stage of things.
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Eh, it depends? Like, compared to our current manufacturing, yeah it's crazy, but if we keep up the exponential growth we could probably manage it reasonably well in like 5-10 turns... :/
 
Angle said:
Eh, it depends? Like, compared to our current manufacturing, yeah it's crazy, but if we keep up the exponential growth we could probably manage it reasonably well in like 5-10 turns... :/
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Yeah, but that requires several turns of doing nothing but Construction actions, when I want to fucking get exploring.

We could have a Grand Cruiser as a mobile base that's likely one of the best ships in the sector for the cost investment of a space elevator, most likely.
 
Angle said:
The author on space elevators:

Oh, I dunno. We'd probably need even more void BP, and the engineering for the blueprints might cost more RP than just getting the super materials, honestly. :/
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One of them is built on the ground and lifts itself to the sky. No need for expensive, high tech, and finicky antigrav either.
 
Alectai said:
Yeah, but that requires several turns of doing nothing but Construction actions, when I want to fucking get exploring.

We could have a Grand Cruiser as a mobile base that's likely one of the best ships in the sector for the cost investment of a space elevator, most likely.
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Yeah, but at the point we get there, we'd have the BP to do both in like, a couple turns. Like, in the last 5 turns we went from 900 BP to 3250, an increase of a bit more than 3.6 times. We do another 3.6 times in the next five turns, we'd be at 11700 BP, enough to get there in like eight actions, if we also had enough lift capacity - and given that plain surface manufactories pay for themselves in 2 actions, we could just do a couple more massive manufacturing rollouts first and still hit our timetable. Covering the CP costs might be a challenge, but we should be able to find ways around that.
 
Yeah, and we then get slapped by Wayfarer because we spent 4-5 turns doing nothing but building excessive industry when we could have been making steps to soothe it.

Or, we could commit to designing our building our Hero Ship and start exploring the system as a stopgap.
 
It's why I want to go for the destroyer. There is an element of humour in Vita going straight for a spaceship at the first available opportunity, but then there's also the flex in showing off what we can do to the planet when we don't have to hide anymore, as well as giving us a way to explore the current system.

It's not going to be our personal flagship, but we can build up to that.
 
Alectai said:
Yeah, and we then get slapped by Wayfarer because we spent 4-5 turns doing nothing but building excessive industry when we could have been making steps to soothe it.

Or, we could commit to designing our building our Hero Ship and start exploring the system as a stopgap.
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No this is assuming we spend about as much of our time on industry and infra as we already do, with the rest going to diplo, research, exploration, and the like. If we spent a whole turn scaling manufactories, we'd get 1.5 ^ 4, or a 5.0625 times increase in manufacturing capacity. Two turns of that, (25 times increase!), and we'd utterly crush the resource requirements for a space elevator, though of course we'd also be ramming face first into CP constraints. :/

Edit: We could of course get around the CP constraints by just making the manufactories manned. Not saying we *should* do these things, simply saying that we *could* do them, if we wanted to.
 
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Alectai said:
Yeah, and we then get slapped by Wayfarer because we spent 4-5 turns doing nothing but building excessive industry when we could have been making steps to soothe it.

Or, we could commit to designing our building our Hero Ship and start exploring the system as a stopgap.
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Yeah, my interest (and likely Vita's) only extends towards exploring the rest of this system including Denva Primus and the Navigator Station, and I have practically no interest in some grandiose project that isn't really worth it. Let's focus on building up and getting to space, and perhaps in a couple turns we can make Rejuvenant plants for every nation and one for the Enclaves.
 
Karnax626 said:
It's why I want to go for the destroyer. There is an element of humour in Vita going straight for a spaceship at the first available opportunity, but then there's also the flex in showing off what we can do to the planet when we don't have to hide anymore, as well as giving us a way to explore the current system.

It's not going to be our personal flagship, but we can build up to that.
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We can build that next turn if we're really desperate, my plan sets us up where we could build a Small Shipyard and a Monitor Frigate with one construction action if we felt like it, or a couple Destroyers if we wanted to go that way.
 
Yeah, I really want to research Heavy destroyers and efficient weapon design among other things when it is time to design our ship
 
BigBadBob7070 said:
Yeah, my interest (and likely Vita's) only extends towards exploring the rest of this system including Denva Primus and the Navigator Station, and I have practically no interest in some grandiose project that isn't really worth it. Let's focus on building up and getting to space, and perhaps in a couple turns we can make Rejuvenant plants for every nation and one for the Enclaves.
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We need a safe port, and frankly, we're never going to find anywhere better than this. To that end, spending a few turns building them up before we fuck off is a sound investment.

[] Plan: Nation Building
-[] Diplomacy, Mechanicus, 1 action:
--[] End the mechanicus tech monopoly.
--[] Try and arrange for the mechanicus to have a stable and productive long term position, so as to head off future conflict and integrate them with the rest of the planet.
--[] Begin investigating Klyssars nest and get more information on it.
--[] Technological Uplift: We're not going to close the entire tech gap, but we should make a dent in the most important parts of it, especially general life support - manufacturing, housing, food, medicine, power, and communications.
--[] Gauge interest in building a space elevator or other megastructure as like, a symbol of planetary unity, with the mechanicus and all the nations of Denva working together on the project, with our help.

-[] Diplomacy, Denva, 1 action:
--[] Technological Uplift: We're not going to close the entire tech gap, but we should make a dent in the most important parts of it, especially general life support - manufacturing, housing, food, medicine, power, and communications.
--[] Create some kind of United Nations, and other international institutions that can help the nations of Denva avoid conflict and societal decay and decline, including economic and environmental problems.
--[] Establish a system of publishing houses, covering art, science, journalism, and anything else that comes up, to support our efforts. Try to avoid stepping on the existing publishing industry too hard while we're at it.
--[] Gauge interest in building a space elevator or other megastructure as like, a symbol of planetary unity, with the mechanicus and all the nations of Denva working together on the project, with our help.

-[ ] Construction, 1 Action: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[ ] 15x Manufactory (-1500 BP, -750 CP)
--[ ] 1x Spaceports (-100 BP, -25 CP)
--[ ] 10x Shuttles (-200 BP, -250 CP)
--[ ] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[ ] Klyssar's Nest Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using mechanicus infrastructure this turn)
--[ ] Technological support, associated payments and bribes for diplomatic actions, and Rent (-430 BP)
--[ ] 1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)

-[ ] Research, 1 Action (200 + 25 RP)
--[ ] Biology is kinda wet (75 + 25 Anexa RP)
--[ ] A Study in Physics (125/150 RP)

-[] [ANEXA] Research - Biology is Kinda Wet
-[] [VICTAN] Communication - We're doing a lot of that this turn I notice, and I don't think we're being very subtle about it.
 
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Picio said:
If our ship is less then 12km long I am calling rookie numbers. :)
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I think we'll have to settle with 8 clicks for our first draft.

That aside, the point is, I want to be mobile sooner rather than later, delaying four, five turns to go full Exponential Growth means four, five turns that we're not getting out of the hole. The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good, and I'd like to at least have an idea of our surroundings before we commit to building full post-scarcity manufacturing fest--everything useful being eaten by Tyranids because we decided to wait until we were unstoppable isn't going to be fun to me.
 
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Alectai said:
I think we'll have to settle with 8 clicks for our first draft.

That aside, the point is, I want to be mobile sooner rather than later, delaying four, five turns to go full Exponential Growth means four, five turns that we're not getting out of the hole. The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good, and I'd like to at least have an idea of our surroundings before we commit to building full post-scarcity manufacturing fest--everything useful being eaten by Tyranids because we decided to wait until we were unstoppable isn't going to be fun to me.
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I'd prefer doing scouting ships or something for that... I will agree that scouting the surrounding neighborhood is important though. Not entirely sure where to fit it in. I want Denva stable before we leave it, though.

I will also point out, if we have two or more construction actions before we leave, which we definitely do, then any manufactories we build before then will pay for themselves entirely.

Also, if we want to build a big ship, then that probably means delaying *longer*, so we have time to research all the techs required and scale our industrial base enough to pay for the thing.
 
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