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My guess is that he has to actually, legit set up a new factory to make old tanks, because they insisted that newer tanks were against their religion or some nonsense.
Mainstream Retroculture says that, other than military tech (and even that with an asterick) there should be no technology that a semi-skilled man from 1930 couldn't maintain and repair.
Thus tanks that are too advanced aren't things that anyone would be taught how to keep up/maintain.
But don't worry, a new strain of Retroculture, the White Renaissance, claims that through a cultural revolution and the purging and purifying of Victoria (in fire and bloodshed and civil war, obviously), they can become so clean of post-1492 influences that they can again use modern technology without being corrupted by its non-white, non-male, etc, etc influences.
Okay, but, like, where did they even get enough to form a division? The last modification of this tank stopped being produced in freaking 1950. That means these survived at least 120 years of relatively continuous use...
Working hypothesis: In this timeline, the Soviets crated up the production line tooling in 1950 and packed it away somewhere rather than scrapping or retooling it. It was, with reason, unused for the subsequent eighty years. Then Kraft and Rumford were dumb enough to ask for T-34s, and Alexander said "fuckit" and sent an entire factory production line for the tank over to the Northern Confederation (that which would then become Victoria).
Alex must really hate these assholes ( and/or he is a huge asshole himself ) if he provided those, he could've I dunno, given them at least slightly newer T54s? So that they wouldn't fall apart with soldiers inside or stop moving due to outgrowths of moss finally completely covering the engines.
He did give T-54/55 tanks (and BMPs) to the three armored divisions of the CMC, which probably actually far outnumbered the T-34s of the "Savior Division" when you think about it.
@Raiseth , this has been canonized, in part because it's interesting, and in part because it helps set up the Victorians for a second try by giving them the ability to do horrific, disgusting reforms and accept greater and more equipment than ever before.
Victoria Falls The world wakes from a fever dream into a nightmare. Try to find your feet in a devastated North America and find a way to end the dream for good.
My working hypothesis is that the "Savior Division" of T-34s was basically a prestige force and parade unit, that drove T-34s because they're praised in Rumford's biography and rarely went anywhere they were likely to get shot at with antitank weapons, if only because it was tacitly understood that if you managed to blow up one of their tanks, they'd murder everyone in the general vicinity.
If the Victorian state was honestly worried about running into a tough enough band of successors that they might stand a credible chance of beating one or two Victorian divisions in open battle, and that armored support would be required... Well, they'd send in whichever Waffen CMC division had the duty posting that season.
My working hypothesis is that the "Savior Division" of T-34s was basically a prestige force and parade unit, that drove T-34s because they're praised in Rumford's biography and rarely went anywhere they were likely to get shot at with antitank weapons, if only because it was tacitly understood that if you managed to blow up one of their tanks, they'd murder everyone in the general vicinity.
If the Victorian state was honestly worried about running into a tough enough band of successors that they might stand a credible chance of beating one or two Victorian divisions in open battle, and that armored support would be required... Well, they'd send in whichever Waffen CMC division had the duty posting that season.
As I understand it, in the post-Collapse wasteland of North America, T-34s were probably just about all they needed, since mostly they were going around oppressing groups that managed to get together enough rifles to fight off raiders and bandits. So, a prestige force, somewhat, but they would likely be quite effective against most groups, especially since I agree about them making it known how bad it would be for everyone in the vicinity if someone managed to blow up one.
Which does not excuse RumLind, but modern Victorians up until the CFC showed up kinda did have an excuse for not feeling they needed much more. "Oh, you got your hands on some RPGs and blew up a tank? We've got a bunch more, and are going to spend the next few months making an example of your town and whoever else we find around here."
Okay, like. This is very interesting, even if the source material looks like something out of a drug-induced nightmare ( like, to add to everything else, fucking T34s? Seriously?! It's a good tank, but it's also a fucking old tank, even by whatever Retro fetish fantasy standards the author seems to have, but, whatever )
I will probably participate in a day or two, but I was reading through the updates and found the one with the section in Russian... well.
I'll just post the fixed version, you do what you want with it, Poptart, it was just physically painful to read without doing something about it, sorry. ( There are actually not that many mistakes, I'm overdramatizing it just a bit, but eugh. My Russian teacher would have probably caught on fire. Much of it is just picking less cringy synonyms and turns of phrase tho. )
*"Броневик" is somewhat of a misappropriation, meaning "armored truck", but it actually applies to all specifically military non-tank vehicles that transport troopers. You can use "грузовик", but it'll sound really odd. The rest of the changes in the sentence are mostly mil-speak jargon.
**Knyaz' is more of a specific noble title, like a count. "Повелитель" means "the one who rules" in literal translation, and is a better fit.
*** There are two ways to say you in Russian, one singular and one plural. When referring to one person, "Вы" is a sign of polite respect or obeisance, "Ты" is a familiar way to refer to an acquaintance. IF you use it on a stranger it's considered either overly familiar or downright rude. Through the text, they both refer to each other as "Вы", Blackwell as a show of brown-nosing appropriate to a subordinate, Alex as a sheer veneer of politeness. When he says, "you're fired", he drops it, while Blackwell continues to use it to ( fail to ) earn some points. I did it mostly for consistency's sake and because I got the impression that Alex is used to speaking very formally even to people he despises, and any drop in formality of his speech is a clear indication that his interlocutor lost the last vestiges of his respect.
***roughly means "predestined". Ordered doesn't carry any religious connotations in Russian if that's what you were going for.
*****If I dig through the dictionary for idioms I might find something more appropriate, but as it is, "Your stupidity returns to hit you on the head", eh.
Okay, but, like, where did they even get enough to form a division? The last modification of this tank stopped being produced in freaking 1950. That means these survived at least 120 years of relatively continuous use....
Alex must really hate these assholes ( and/or he is a huge asshole himself ) if he provided those, he could've I dunno, given them at least slightly newer T54s? So that they wouldn't fall apart with soldiers inside or stop moving due to outgrowths of moss finally completely covering the engines.
I have to use it because Lind insisted that that's what they got.
In-universe, I imagine that the way it went was Russia offering, like, something viable from the graveyard. -62s, -55s, something. But Rumford said, "No, those are unreliable and we don't have the trained manpower to make use of them. Give us -34s."
And Russia went, "Are you absolutely off your rocker? The fuck do you mean, you can't rustle up a tank crew up to the task of operating a T-55? And instead you want -34s?"
And Rumford said, "Yes, we want the -34s. They always run and never break down."
(Nearly an exact quote from the book.)
And Russia replied, "Do you actually want our help with this?"
And Rumford said, "Oh, yes, very much so, sir. You can unload in Portland."
And Russia said, "I don't think you're grasping the actual difficulties, here. We can't give you T-34s."
And Rumford went, "I understand completely. I wouldn't want to give away such an asset either."
And Russia, developing a headache, responded, "Because there aren't any left to give, you psychopath! This is 2033! The thing's been out of production for nearly a century! Do you think we're Vietnam? Do you think we're Cuba?! We aren't desperate enough to still operate these things! We use Armatas! There are no T-34s left to give! If you want them, you'll have to build them yourself!"
And Rumford, happily, came back with, "Oh, that would actually be preferable! We'd much prefer to make our own gear."
And Russia, quite ready to be done with the discussion, said, "...fine. Here are some designs. We don't even have tooling to give you, you understand? How are you going to fucking build these things?"
And Rumford, smiling, replied, "Well, as it happens, suddenly needing industrial equipment for a production line of obsolete tanks kinda lines up pretty well with my current plans for the industry already in our territory..."
In-universe, I imagine that the way it went was Russia offering, like, something viable from the graveyard. -62s, -55s, something. But Rumford said, "No, those are unreliable and we don't have the trained manpower to make use of them. Give us -34s."
And Russia went, "Are you absolutely off your rocker? The fuck do you mean, you can't rustle up a tank crew up to the task of operating a T-55? And instead you want -34s?"
And Rumford said, "Yes, we want the -34s. They always run and never break down."
(Nearly an exact quote from the book.)
And Russia replied, "Do you actually want our help with this?"
And Rumford said, "Oh, yes, very much so, sir. You can unload in Portland."
And Russia said, "I don't think you're grasping the actual difficulties, here. We can't give you T-34s."
And Rumford went, "I understand completely. I wouldn't want to give away such an asset either."
And Russia, developing a headache, responded, "Because there aren't any left to give, you psychopath! This is 2033! The thing's been out of production for nearly a century! Do you think we're Vietnam? Do you think we're Cuba?! We aren't desperate enough to still operate these things! We use Armatas! There are no T-34s left to give! If you want them, you'll have to build them yourself!"
And Rumford, happily, came back with, "Oh, that would actually be preferable! We'd much prefer to make our own gear."
And Russia, quite ready to be done with the discussion, said, "...fine. Here are some designs. We don't even have tooling to give you, you understand? How are you going to fucking build these things?"
And Rumford, smiling, replied, "Well, as it happens, suddenly needing industrial equipment for a production line of obsolete tanks kinda lines up pretty well with my current plans for the industry already in our territory..."
...I legit get a Brain-Aneurysm from reading about Rumford's sheer Idiocy. I never thought I'd feel sympathy for any Russian Official working for Alexander, but whatever poor Schmuck who had to deal with the Victorian Retro-tards definitely gets some.
The Only Sensible thing that Idiot Ever did was have the foresight to make his nation's own gear...
I don't know whether to punch him for denying aid of equipment that works.
Or give him a small clap for being at least aware enough to know that Russia should not have control over the heavy weapon equipment and have some internal production capability, meaning that Victoria has enough control over its military production to weather its founder's death and not be entirely at the whims of Russian imports.
I must now hug a puppy to regain my empathy because I just complimented a traitor.
Victorian History classes must always have the problem of mixing up the war waged between Patriots and Cultural Marxists on the internet (The Tumblr Wars) with the ongoing fight against the invasive weed that drains the lifeblood of a nation in a never ending tide (The Tumble Wars).
Not really? I mean, having the infrastructure to maintain and supply your armor, sure. But getting free military hardware, especially if you're facing a skilled labor shortage, is never something to pass up.
In-universe, I imagine that the way it went was Russia offering, like, something viable from the graveyard. -62s, -55s, something. But Rumford said, "No, those are unreliable and we don't have the trained manpower to make use of them. Give us -34s."
And Russia, developing a headache, responded, "Because there aren't any left to give, you psychopath! This is 2033! The thing's been out of production for nearly a century! Do you think we're Vietnam? Do you think we're Cuba?! We aren't desperate enough to still operate these things! We use Armatas! There are no T-34s left to give! If you want them, you'll have to build them yourself!"
And Rumford, happily, came back with, "Oh, that would actually be preferable! We'd much prefer to make our own gear."
And Russia, quite ready to be done with the discussion, said, "...fine. Here are some designs. We don't even have tooling to give you, you understand? How are you going to fucking build these things?"
And Rumford, smiling, replied, "Well, as it happens, suddenly needing industrial equipment for a production line of obsolete tanks kinda lines up pretty well with my current plans for the industry already in our territory..."
Akshually....
The first 100 T-34s were shipped in from Russia. On a ship.
"One ship has already arrived from Russia, and more are coming," said Father Dimitri. "We are sending you machine guns, mortars, which will be more useful than artillery in your terrain, anti-tank mines, thousands of RPGs, shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles, and anti-aircraft guns. And a special present from the Tsar himself for Captain Rumford: 100 T-34 tanks, which should be here next week."
"Shit, T-34s?" said General LeMieux. "I guess beggars can't be choosers, but those date to World War II. They can't possibly fight American M-1s. Couldn't you spare us something a little more modern, like T-72s?"
"T-34s are exactly the right tanks for us," I replied. "They are crude, simple, and reliable. They always start and they always run. If they do break, any machine shop can fix 'em. We don't want tanks to fight other tanks. That's what anti-tank weapons are for. The best way to stop an M-1 is with a mine that blows a tread off. We want tanks for real armored warfare, which means to get deep in the enemy's rear and overrun his soft stuff, his artillery and logistics trains and headquarters, so his whole force panics and comes apart."
The impression I get is that Alex expected the whole endeavor to fail bloodily, and was just investing in setting up a bloody quagmire in North America. Imagine his surprise.
The Only Sensible thing that Idiot Ever did was have the foresight to make his nation's own gear...
I don't know whether to punch him for denying aid of equipment that works.
Or give him a small clap for being at least aware enough to know that Russia should not have control over the heavy weapon equipment and have some internal production capability, meaning that Victoria has enough control over its military production to weather its founder's death and not be entirely at the whims of Russian imports.
I must now hug a puppy to regain my empathy because I just complimented a traitor.
Victoria was never going to occupy a strategically viable position without Russian support. Victoria is universally hated and makes vast numbers of enemies just by existing. If Russia ever really cut them loose, they'd be conquered within five to ten years.
If Russia finds another North American proxy to pursue its strategy of breaking viable successor states, Victoria gets crushed by that new proxy- either as a deliberate successor-state-breaking, or just for revenge.
And if Russia switches to no North American proxy- effectively ceases exercising strategic influence over the continent's future- then within a few years, various other foreign powers will be backing all kinds of proxies... many of whom will have the tools and desire to totally destroy Victoria. New York alone would be quite capable of pounding the Vicks into goo if properly equipped with modern arms, though the cost might well be high enough to deter them from trying without a great opportunity.
So basically, Victoria is utterly dependent on Russian goodwill anyway. If they ever somehow offend Russia so badly that not only are they incapable of getting Russian military aid, but they can't even source second-hand spare parts for old-line Russian equipment (e.g. by purchasing from other Third World countries)... They're screwed. They're screwed and doomed with no reasonable hope of success.
...
Therefore, trying to pursue domestic arms manufacture at the cost of obtaining ineffective and fragile weapon systems that consume a lot of valuable labor and resources to produce, instead of simply relying on much more powerful and reliable weapon systems, little or no harder to use, that their foreign sugar daddies are offering them practically for free?
Akshually....
The first 100 T-34s were shipped in from Russia. On a ship.
The impression I get is that Alex expected the whole endeavor to fail bloodily, and was just investing in setting up a bloody quagmire in North America. Imagine his surprise.
You know, if Victoria genuinely has the capability to manufacture its own T-34s then there is a non-zero chance that we would gain that capability once we defeat them. I feel like we could put it to good use.
EDIT: I mean, not making T-34s probably. But I wonder if it could be adapted to construct some kind of decent light armor that would be an effective weapon against other American factions at the very least.
You know, if Victoria genuinely has the capability to manufacture its own T-34s then there is a non-zero chance that we would gain that capability once we defeat them. I feel like we could put it to good use.
EDIT: I mean, not making T-34s probably. But I wonder if it could be adapted to construct some kind of decent light armor that would be an effective weapon against other American factions at the very least.
This. People fetishize self-reliance while ignoring the fact that there are real costs to attempting to do this.
That there are reasons why tinpot dictators around the world BUY their shit instead of building them at home where it's immune to sanctions; the upfront investment in human capital and other resources is prohibitive. And the opportunity costs are very real.
We expend a lot of laughter at the shittiness of North Korean tanks, and they are basically building modified 1960s vehicles from original plans.
International trade is valuable.
You know, if Victoria genuinely has the capability to manufacture its own T-34s then there is a non-zero chance that we would gain that capability once we defeat them. I feel like we could put it to good use.
EDIT: I mean, not making T-34s probably. But I wonder if it could be adapted to construct some kind of decent light armor that would be an effective weapon against other American factions at the very least.
If we can build or modify trucks?
We can build better armored vehicles than a T-34, eve if all we're doing is mounting Kornets and 50 cals on an armored pickup.
And you can't even use the factory to build tractors, since everyone has gone electric.
There's literally negative utility to any such manufacturing facility.
100% correct - we're currently facing a major shortage of agricultural equipment, and T-34 engine/chassis are basically converted tractors. We might need to do a little retooling to meet more modern fuel-efficiency/environmental standards, but a pre-made tractor factory would be really nice at this point.
I.... he was a military analist, right? T-34 not broking down? I mean, what? for real? maybe he'd prefer a MKIV? or a Liberty? or perhaps an FT?
Dear lord iirc the 34 were more or less dissposable, built in huge numbers but with low life expectancy (in man/hours, not battle hours) due to material quality, lack of quality control and so on and so forth
If we can build or modify trucks?
We can build better armored vehicles than a T-34, eve if all we're doing is mounting Kornets and 50 cals on an armored pickup.
And you can't even use the factory to build tractors, since everyone has gone electric.
There's literally negative utility to any such manufacturing facility.
100% correct - we're currently facing a major shortage of agricultural equipment, and T-34 engine/chassis are basically converted tractors. We might need to do a little retooling to meet more modern fuel-efficiency/environmental standards, but a pre-made tractor factory would be really nice at this point.
Akshually....
The first 100 T-34s were shipped in from Russia. On a ship.
"One ship has already arrived from Russia, and more are coming," said Father Dimitri. "We are sending you machine guns, mortars, which will be more useful than artillery in your terrain, anti-tank mines, thousands of RPGs, shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles, and anti-aircraft guns. And a special present from the Tsar himself for Captain Rumford: 100 T-34 tanks, which should be here next week."
"Shit, T-34s?" said General LeMieux. "I guess beggars can't be choosers, but those date to World War II. They can't possibly fight American M-1s. Couldn't you spare us something a little more modern, like T-72s?"
"T-34s are exactly the right tanks for us," I replied. "They are crude, simple, and reliable. They always start and they always run. If they do break, any machine shop can fix 'em. We don't want tanks to fight other tanks. That's what anti-tank weapons are for. The best way to stop an M-1 is with a mine that blows a tread off. We want tanks for real armored warfare, which means to get deep in the enemy's rear and overrun his soft stuff, his artillery and logistics trains and headquarters, so his whole force panics and comes apart."
The impression I get is that Alex expected the whole endeavor to fail bloodily, and was just investing in setting up a bloody quagmire in North America. Imagine his surprise.
Considering how many of those spam cans the Russians have it not surprise they would have multiple field armies of them in storage. Still really funny how they think those antiques will be able to run over us with the especially if they are original T-34 and not the ones they stuck a bigger guns on when the Nazis put heavier tanks in field.
Tzar must be expecting the Vics to drop hard and is giving the Vics and their stupid ideas that pass for military doctrine and tactics. Hell they are ignoring the other side will have anti armour heck we could produce knock off charile-g's to take them out or the fact arty once the observers get sights on them will smoke them.
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