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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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qwolfs said:
Saying that a nation went to war for resources, or because of ideology or whatever is too reductive to be useful.
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So basically it can be either, both, or neither? Modern wars are largely idealogical unlike earlier wars...

This makes me wonder what wars in the setting would be foughf for? Would the empire start an ideological war? Or would it only ever be about securing their borders? What about the barbarians, do they fight because they want what the empire has? Or do they fight for Glory and Honor (tm)?
 
Wars are fought for ideology, glory, cultural supremacy, personal animosity, any number of things.
But resources? Well, to a degree, in that people want more of them.
Most of the time if a group needs resources to survive that someone else holds, it does not seem likely they would have problems wielding an actual army to take those resources.
Not saying that wars for resources as a survival issue don't happen, but they do seem like a minority reason.
 
pgyws said:
I don't know about that. My knowledge of the military and recent American military history seem to indicate that even if western soldiers are in theory supposed to decline illegal orders, they usually don't, and almost never face any consequences.
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Pretty much, still trained to obey first, because thats easily trainable, while learning the laws and ethics of war is not.
To my understanding rank matters a lot. An officer WOULD be expected to be able to consider and refuse an illegal order(and would be charged if they went through with an illegal order), but your regular grunt would have a lot more leeway with such orders.

In part because its REALLY hard for them to refuse.
 
veekie said:
Pretty much, still trained to obey first, because thats easily trainable, while learning the laws and ethics of war is not.
To my understanding rank matters a lot. An officer WOULD be expected to be able to consider and refuse an illegal order(and would be charged if they went through with an illegal order), but your regular grunt would have a lot more leeway with such orders.

In part because its REALLY hard for them to refuse.
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Rank aside the difference here is that an officer will be part of the planning and will have time to consider his future actions and the broader picture.
A grunt will make most of his decisions in the heat of the moment. If he is told to shoot he will shoot and ask questions later, not because he is of lower rank but because doing otherwise will get him or his friends killed.
In modern armies, there is a lot of place for local initiative in the lower ranks on the sergeant level and sometimes even lower, within the parameters of the larger mission. The soldiers are much more educated and trusted to make decisions since there is rarely enough officers to manage everything. So the obedience is more emphasized when you are in active combat, in other times it very much depends on the army.
I remember reading that the Romans had something similar in place, concerning the local initiative, can't recall on what level or the source.

The talk about the morality of war and empire-making, or lack thereof, started after it stopped being profitable. In western countries, everyone else is still going strong.
Also, one last thing @Yeangst making a Japan example is not a good practice, most people don't know the history well I'm not even getting into the unique culture.
 
veekie said:
but your regular grunt would have a lot more leeway with such orders.
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I think you mean 'less' leeway?

And I imagine it's a pain to untangle what happens when a superior officer from a lesser clan is in charge of a junior from a greater clan, though they'd presumably try and avoid that where possible.
 
Dak'kon said:
Also, one last thing @Yeangst making a Japan example is not a good practice, most people don't know the history well I'm not even getting into the unique culture.
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I prefer to use examples of Imperial Japan because it seems to me that a lot of modern Japanese media is papering over some of that history, not least by pushing the 'the nation declared war because it needed resources angle', and people need to be educated.

I could easily have used the example of how Nazi Germany's 'need' for lebensraum was entirely a construction of their ideology, and that modern German is hardly an overcrowded hellhole despite having less land and more people than Nazi Germany.
 
Yeangst said:
I prefer to use examples of Imperial Japan because it seems to me that a lot of modern Japanese media is papering over some of that history, not least by pushing the 'the nation declared war because it needed resources angle', and people need to be educated.

I could easily have used the example of how Nazi Germany's 'need' for lebensraum was entirely a construction of their ideology, and that modern German is hardly an overcrowded hellhole despite having less land and more people than Nazi Germany.
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A much better example would be Victorian Britain or Rome, it may be harder to prove your point.
Nazi Germany was in an era in which ideology instead of, real or perceived, need for resource caused wars. So again it's not so fitting.
Wars in the west changed in a big way at the beginning of the previous century trade had become easier, military equipment and training soldiers got more expensive. The modern state is based on the monopoly over the use of force, so you couldn't even offload it on your vassals.
Japan in most of its Imperial era was de facto ruled by its warlords, if you only have a hammer its only natural the everything will look like a nail...

Wars were very profitable(if you won) for most of human history, the Industrial Revolution and subsequent technological development put a wrench into it, making trade cheaper than war, luckily. If it ever changes... let's hope it doesn't.
 
Well, moving on from the topic of war and its causes, I have to wonder what exactly we'll be learning on this scouting mission. I can't imagine that we'll get to see an actual barbarian camp, given that seems to be incredibly risky for a simple live fire training mission. But mayhaps we'll run into local scouting camps for the different tribes. Which would be strange given abilities to stay in the air and avoid logistical supply lines when on missions.

Other than that, maybe we'll be tasked to find and track some particularly dangerous beasts in the Argent Sect area, or set up different areas for lower ranked members of the Scout division to use on extended trips.

I think the most realistic option, however, is simply checking to make sure that the borders of the Argent Sect haven't been crossed by unknown barbarians. Either way, it'll be interesting to see more of the Wall and what lies inside of the Argent Sect boundaries, or maybe even further beyond.
 
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Temp Mark, Insight votes
  • Threadmarks
    • Alright, so while we're still in the weekend Lull, allow me to present for your inspection the insights from the arts being mastered this month. This is a bit spoiler-y since I won't be posting the full math breakdown for some time yet, but it is convenient to put this vote early to better weave it into the narrative. Plus you know, it doesn't advantage one art over the others. Normal two hour moratorium rules apply here, please look them over and discuss, as always these insights are permanent and important.


    Sable Crescent Step Insights

    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
    [][SCS] Do not slot Sable Crescent Step

    Thousand Ring Fortress Insights

    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
    [][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
    [][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress

    Curious Diviners Eye Insights
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
    [][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Sable Crescent Step Insights

    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.

    I like this one, it emphasis the need to keep learning and adapting.

    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires

    Become even more of a greedy girl? I like the other one better.

    Thousand Ring Fortress Insights

    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength

    Keep learning from mistakes, I like it.

    []{TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.

    Have something you are not willing to compromise. I also like it, this'll be a hard choice.

    Curious Diviners Eye Insights
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

    Know everything!

    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.

    Not sure I want to encourage paranoia.
     
    First SCS one seems powerful and fitting. Second one seems true to ourselves and scary.

    I like the building endurance of the first TRF one. Second one is a no for me; I don't want a breaking point. Would be fine not slotting TRF.

    Second CDE seems like a wise lesson for us. Sonewhat worried about the behavioral implications of the first one with regards to being unsatisfied with our friends having their secrets.

    likely to vote something like this

    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires


    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
    [][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress

    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
     
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    yrsillar said:
    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
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    The first is interesting because it has some cyclical themes, and growth could fit into Spring/Summer. (EDIT: It clashes with SNR though) I think the second clashes a bit too much with Ling Qi's advanced insight for me to like it though.

    yrsillar said:
    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
    []{TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
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    The first insight here is a connected a bit with the idea of endings inspiring new beginnings, and the rings on a tree also have a seasonal theme. In contrast I think the second insight is wrong for Ling Qi, it's too inflexible.

    yrsillar said:
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
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    I believe the first here is too general, and not really in the direction of what we're going for. I'm very afraid of it in fact, because it's the sort of thing I can see a lot of voters going for just because "they like it." The second is more OK as it fits a bit with the Argent Mirror, but I'm not that crazy about it either. I think I'm happy to not slot CDE, maybe the successor art we pick will have something that fits us closer.

    Edit: Total vote is probably TRF1, SCS1, and no slot anything else, using approval voting as necessary. Maybe only one of TRF1/SCS1, not too bothered which but one might be better than two here.

    Edit2: Probably only supporting TRF1 now
     
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    Alright am going to analyze these insights in terms of how they might limit us.

    yrsillar said:
    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
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    This makes us unable to be content. It think that it might make our domian incompatible with Starless Night's Reflection.
    yrsillar said:
    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
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    This makes us unable to acknowledge barriers to our desires. Not sure how it might limit us, but I don't really like the lesson much.
    yrsillar said:
    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
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    Well this means that we are unable to make our-self forget things. Also might make any arts that turn back our personal time incapable.
    yrsillar said:
    []{TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
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    This stops us from being able to retreat. Hard no.
    yrsillar said:
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
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    Sort of like it. Wish it said "false unquestionable knowledge is worse than blindness". In my experience ignorance is easy to fix. Not at all like blindness.
    yrsillar said:
    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
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    Makes us unable to "turn a blind eye" to anything. I expect that might be some arts that work by selective ignorance. However we already have an insight that is likely to stop that.
     
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    I love the first SCS insight, but I'm not sure about TRF or CDE. They've got some decent stuff, but I'm not sure I like them enough to slot them.
     
    Are we meant to pick only one, or one per art?
    Sable Crescent Step Insights

    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
    [][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
    [][SCS] Do not slot Sable Crescent Step

    Thousand Ring Fortress Insights

    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
    []{TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
    [][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress

    Curious Diviners Eye Insights
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
    [][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
    [][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

    I think Darkness knows no barriers, each scar is another ring and be always watchfull seem the most interesting ones.
    The first SCS insight feels like forced movement, too focused on constant activity and we are overworked as it is, no thanks.
    The second SCS is about mobility, getting our way and not being barred from where we want to go. Which feels both more interesting and usefull.

    The first TRF insight is about getting stronger through adversity (which is very Ling Qi thing in specific, and cultivator thing in general), don't stop just because you get hurt, learn, grow and get better.
    The second insight feels more like not letting yourself be pushed around, but also about being stubborn. Usefull, but the roots part might contradict with freedom and mobility of the SCS insight and wind element.

    The first CDE, i don't really get the point of. It's true, but also so obvious that i have trouble understanding how it would work as a special insight.
    The second insight is fairly straight forward, and works well with the 2nd SCS insight.
     

    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
    [][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
    [][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

    I like these three
     
    As expected, CDEs insights are the least appealing, but the most likely to be elaborated on by successors.

    By contrast, at least we have confirmation that Wind Thief would be an SCS Successor, so being able to add depth to those insights would be nice.

    As far as TRF goes, comboing its first insight with SCS' looks something like:


    [][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.

    [][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength


    Which sounds a lot like SES when taken together, and goes together with our FVM and FSS Insights as well.
    yrsillar said:
    There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
    -Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
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    The accumulation of experiences in the pursuit of growth no matter the potential hardship Ling Qi experiences makes for an extremely solid foundation to bolster the defensive aspects of her Domain, to the point I even want to say itd be complete.

    After this, we'd need to elaborate on the Advanced Insight further, specifically what that "home" means and in doing so define it.

    Which ties in with Ling Qis existing personal hangups
     
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