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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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[SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
If that isn't Ling Qi I don't know what is. It might be a bit too much Ling Qi really. We're already pretty damn driven.
[SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
Sorta clashes with our "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family."
I don't think this is necessarily a "selfish" option. It might actually lead to us dedicating ourselves more deeply to CRX vision of the future, since that's something Ling Qi wants but doesn't really believe to be possible. But such a direct wording clash with our current advanced insight seems like a bad idea.
[TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
Fine I guess. Not much to say here.
[TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
This pretty much embodies a large part of Ling Qi's character arc from Forge. Love it.
The CDE insights both look fine to me, though I like the first one better.
If that isn't Ling Qi I don't know what is. It might be a bit too much Ling Qi really. We're already pretty damn driven.
[SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
Sorta clashes with our "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family."
I don't think this is necessarily a "selfish" option. It might actually lead to us dedicating ourselves more deeply to CRX vision of the future, since that's something Ling Qi wants but doesn't really believe to be possible. But such a direct wording clash with our current advanced insight seems like a bad idea.
[TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
Fine I guess. Not much to say here.
[TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
This pretty much embodies a large part of Ling Qi's character arc from Forge. Love it.
The CDE insights both look fine to me, though I like the first one better.
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
Ugh, SCS 1 is so close to being perfect but the 'no content in stillness' part absolutely kills it for me. We may not stop to simply enjoy the moment and what we have very often, but that makes the times we do all the more precious. Linq Qi is enough of a workaholic without carving it into our soul.
You know to be frank.
We have Storm Enduring Seedling to elaborate on TRF further, since its so thematically similar to Ling Qis own take on TRF.
If we're worried about it locking out anything, the Seedling lesson should let us double up on that theme to a degree.
From that perspective, the first insight is unlikely to be replicated in SES, whereas the "put down roots" thing is far more likely to show up there, as its explicitly SES' entire theme.
We have Storm Enduring Seedling to elaborate on TRF further, since its so thematically similar to Ling Qis own take on TRF.
If we're worried about it locking out anything, the Seedling lesson should let us double up on that theme to a degree.
From that perspective, the first insight is unlikely to be replicated in SES, whereas the "put down roots" thing is far more likely to show up there, as its explicitly SES' entire theme.
Again, TRF 2 will likely be redundant with SES' own insights.
Its not an either/or thing.
- Location
- United States
[QUOTE="Caligstro, post: 12663171, member: 22920"
[TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
TRF #2 I also thought was a little dangerous -- It's another absolute worldview sounding thing, where we greatly double down on stubbornness and become unwilling to change too much. Seems a little dangerous for someone who prizes flexibility and who most definitely still has a lot more to learn, and is still working to learn and establish a foundation to grow more.
On the other hand, It DOES allow for flexibility in branches and even trunk, just not roots, which probably would largely equate with other insights, domain core ("Home" and whatever we expand this to encompass), and the like though, so it's not nearly as restrictive or worrying as the SCS ones. Probably would help resist attacks and manipulation which conflict with our domain focus? Overall could still be a decent insight, and I may be overworried about the negative side of this insight.
I think we should probably slot one of these 2. My preference is on the first, but the 2nd might be worthwhile too.
[/QUOTE]
The way I see it, Ling Qi's development is already moving in this direction. When she was a street rat, there was no ideal she wasn't willing to give up in order to survive, and she didn't like it. This, though, is more like an honorable person who is also practical. Like a Ling Qi who will run away if she is on her own and is outmatched by an enemy but will not run away if her friends and family are at risk, even if the chance of success is low.
[TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
TRF #2 I also thought was a little dangerous -- It's another absolute worldview sounding thing, where we greatly double down on stubbornness and become unwilling to change too much. Seems a little dangerous for someone who prizes flexibility and who most definitely still has a lot more to learn, and is still working to learn and establish a foundation to grow more.
On the other hand, It DOES allow for flexibility in branches and even trunk, just not roots, which probably would largely equate with other insights, domain core ("Home" and whatever we expand this to encompass), and the like though, so it's not nearly as restrictive or worrying as the SCS ones. Probably would help resist attacks and manipulation which conflict with our domain focus? Overall could still be a decent insight, and I may be overworried about the negative side of this insight.
I think we should probably slot one of these 2. My preference is on the first, but the 2nd might be worthwhile too.
[/QUOTE]
The way I see it, Ling Qi's development is already moving in this direction. When she was a street rat, there was no ideal she wasn't willing to give up in order to survive, and she didn't like it. This, though, is more like an honorable person who is also practical. Like a Ling Qi who will run away if she is on her own and is outmatched by an enemy but will not run away if her friends and family are at risk, even if the chance of success is low.
Wiggin42
Wage Slave
Love all of these, but I think my favorite is TRF 2. The line in the sand seems like a perfect fit for Ling Qi. Yeah, she'll play along with face games and bail when she has to, but if someone crosses the line she will go full shadow wraith on your ass. I'm picturing the council Thunderdome where she throws down with Sun and a bunch of Yellows, or visiting Snow Mom even when it was clear she might eat us, or even backing up Suyin's revenge fight without actually getting involved herself. If something really matters then she is there, full stop. The Horned Lord is the one exception and she's expressed a crap ton of grief about that choice.
SCS I feel less strongly about and even less CDE, but I don't oppose any of them.
SCS I feel less strongly about and even less CDE, but I don't oppose any of them.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's likely but also hardly a guarantee I would state. And this is core enough of an ideal that I'd want to have it locked down by a strong and flexible insight rather than gamble for a comparable one from a lower quality art.
And we've seen here the difference Art Quality makes in insights--in how they're very flexible in how they adapt to the person learning it. Note how we're knife-fighting over semantics mostly for SCS and TRF but CDE is pretty much "Eh"
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It lines up well as a substitute for TRF 2 people.
In this situation, we very likely can have our cake and eat it too.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Mmm, no, the lesson there is that "The seedling gets strong and big no matter what tries to knock it over", while TRF 2 allows for retreat and flexibility but just draws a hard line in the sand that you won't move from.
If anything, SES seems to line up with something close to TRF 1. Where it's willing to endure hardships and trials. But SES ultimately boils down not to swaying with the wind or bending to the trunk, but taking everything the world throws at you and getting huge anyway.
It lines up just as well with TRF1. Growing stronger through weathering trials is totally SES.
... actually, both those insights look more SES than TRF tbh
Except it's wording will probably be less flexible than TRF 2 for the same role.
- Location
- United States of America
I'm going to push back against this. While it is a possibility, I am far from convinced it is a sure thing. Here is the text from Starless Night's Reflection
While I understand where the idea that SNR is contradictory to the first SCS insight, I don't think it is a particular concern. The first SCS insight specifically says that there is no peace in emptiness and no contentment in stillness. The SNR description seems to imply that conflict cannot hurt you if you reflect the stillness and depth of the infinite void. Or, if you are like the stillness and depth of an infinite void, conflict and malice can not strike you.
It's not saying that you will be content, or that you will be at peace, it merely says that outside conflict and malice will find no purchase against you. Which I think is an interesting distinction.
If, on the other hand, it is simply contradictory keywords that make different arts non-compatible with a person's domain, then SNR already has a problem with PLR. PLR also has the motion keyword and SNR has the keyword stillness. So I deeply hope that it is not simply contradictory keywords that make different arts domain incompatible. And, quite frankly, I don't think that the keywords are the end all be all of a potential domain insight. While the first domain insight of SCS certainly has a lot of motion in it, it has little to do the moon, shadows, dance, or dexterity.
So I believe it is whether the core message of the art is incompatible with a previously slotted domain insight that makes it incompatible. Take, for instance, Bewitching Silver Maiden, which seems, as a fundamental principle, that crafting a mask and hiding your true intentions is something you want to do whereas AM's insight was that sincerity was the measure of a person. Those two ideas don't seem to mesh.
Compare and contrast, again, with SCS insight 1 and SNR. While I can't be 100% positive, it seems to me that the insight is saying that no peace or contentment can be found in emptiness and stillness, and stagnation is death whereas SNR is saying that outside malice and conflict can simply be ignored through stillness and emptiness. Which, while almost seeming to be contradictory, doesn't seem to be opposing each other. SNR doesn't promise contentment and peace while SCS 1st insight doesn't say that stillness and emptiness are bad, just that no contentment or peace can be found in them.
Yes, which is why Im not saying we'd have a second shot at TRF 1s insight.
That is unique to this opportunity. SES is about intractibility. Not growth.
It is by definition a flexible line in the Sand type of Art. Yes, TRFs version will be "more flexible" but you want "flexible but up to a point" and that is SES in its entirety. Its Insights will be different and vague takes on that theme, and you know what?
Thats fine. Because "flexible up to a point" is exactly that kind of vague thing that gets defined by context anyway. We're not losing anything by discarding TRF2 for an SES insight down the line.
Its complimentary nature is why we were all attracted to it in the first place, after all.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Hmm.
You may have a point there.
Okay, consider me flipped formally to SCS 1/TRF 2 then.
TRF2 fits Ling Qi's growth as a person and her character arc really well in terms of her developing thoughts on freedom. Things like her choosing to stand and fight with Meizhen rather than running were big milestones. Her development with Renxiang is in large part her learning what she wants to fight for. Similarly look at how unhappy she was when she backslid with the King.
Her moving away from being someone who always runs from danger is a big part of her arc.
Her moving away from being someone who always runs from danger is a big part of her arc.
The first one fits Ling Qi, and the fact that cultivators emphasize their virtues/vices the higher up the totem pole they go. So it'll have my vote barring persuasive arguments.
The second one has Ling Qi do what she wants, and while it might cause issues with her job... don't build your Way based upon it was sound advice given to her. Actually it has a lot to do with her accidental success in managing to make a chink in the Bai isolationism through total ignorance... huh there might be crossover there. Also it fits her personalized cultivation art of self expression in that it makes her decide that she should follow her own desires.
The first insight fits with how Ling Qi's path in life, her decision to go to the place her mother used to work at, and the talk with her Senior Brother. It would also be a good fit for when the encouragement of acts of daring come back to bite her.
The second one is to have core values that you'll never cross, but be flexible otherwise? No that isn't in line with her lesson of sincerity... ugh.
The first one fits with her choice of scholarly moons, and her personalized cultivation art in. It is at core a declaration that Ling Qi will seek knowledge, and maybe seek to become a righteous scholar what with the recent talk about justice? Huh it might tie into her seeking to not be ignorant of why people take action, and the vagueness is intresting.
A lesson from the moon road trip that one can easily miss the obvious, and you must be vigilant to find such things.
- Location
- Elsewhere
[][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
I like both of these. The first does have the worry of conflicting with Starless Night's reflection or similar arts.
[][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress
I'm strongly against the latter. The former is somewhat tempting, but I am very hesitant to slot TRF, especially after LQ explicitly acknowledged it wasn't suited to her. TRF is useful, but not something I think LQ should have as part of her way.
Honestly, I just love this one.
[][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
I like both of these. The first does have the worry of conflicting with Starless Night's reflection or similar arts.
[][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress
I'm strongly against the latter. The former is somewhat tempting, but I am very hesitant to slot TRF, especially after LQ explicitly acknowledged it wasn't suited to her. TRF is useful, but not something I think LQ should have as part of her way.
[][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
Honestly, I just love this one.
For that to be true, you'd have to define what exactly is "flexible up to a point" in the first place.
Because vagueness and flexibility in this circumstance are largely interchangeable. Either way, those limits won't be defined until after Ling Qi does so herself. Moreover, flexibility is less of an issue when we have yet to Master it in the first place.
A decision not yet made is by definition flexible.
I feel I should make it clear that the context of my raising this point was predominately the pursuit of sowing discord on, well, Discord. The theory is on sound footing, but its purpose was only ever mischief.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's more that 'From the perspective of building a personal narrative', a Lesson that says "Branches sway, the trunk bends, but the roots hold fast" is probably going to provide greater freedom of action than "Once I find a spot I like, I stay there and don't let anything move me."
It just seems to be to be more likely that we'll get something like TRF 1 (Which straight up deals with "Yeah my damage from past pain is going to be turned to future strength", which SES is literally all about). from SES mastery.
But at this point I think we're mostly just arguing semantics again.
- Location
- Finland
Not necessarily.
I see it as a more "dare to dream" thing, don't accept your lot and instead decide what you want, and then find a way to get it.
As long as the thing we want is a family, that family needs to also want us or it won't be a family.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Her lesson of sincerity is "don't lie to yourself" so how is knowing that there are lines that she won't cross and lines that she will depending on the stakes out of line with it?