Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] the lesson of the palace

We know the rat-brain, but have never confronted the fires of hope and wishful thinking unchecked. Should start while we still have wriggle room.
If we're to peacefully surpass Cai Shenhua, we're going to need to understand how ideals can go wrong. As Cai Renxiang is an idealist, we need to be able to balance it out.
Palace will let us learn this far better than roots.
 
The palace of one seems to me to be more horrifying. It is not for us, this trip, an inspiration or an ideal. It is pain. This is a lesson in harm and hurt, not positive things. I really don't think we are going to learn happy things here.

Hope as a weapon is betrayal. It's lulling your enemies into the course of action you desire, taking their hope and making it the things that destroys them. How to make what is wanted not true. How to break dreams and produce people who do not hope as a way to escape the weapon.

It is very hui. The worst bits, I think.

The roots are more honest- oppression, not false allies and false dreams. They will be, I hope, Ling Qi learning that how she grew up, desperate animal striving for survival, is not just a thing that happens, it is a thing that is deliberately done to people. How it is done, and what the results are, and how those results break people: all of these things are going to be very useful for self-reflection. Know what the injury is so you can begin to heal it.
 
The palace of one seems to me to be more horrifying. It is not for us, this trip, an inspiration or an ideal. It is pain. This is a lesson in harm and hurt, not positive things. I really don't think we are going to learn happy things here.

Hope as a weapon is betrayal. It's lulling your enemies into the course of action you desire, taking their hope and making it the things that destroys them. How to make what is wanted not true. How to break dreams and produce people who do not hope as a way to escape the weapon.

It is very hui. The worst bits, I think.
It's also literally the best bit. The bit that that Ling Qi saw out there in the liminal and it made her go "That's not a bad dream to have, how did it all go so wrong."
 
I don't want to see the (a?) best dream as something that can only go wrong? I think that's a risk.
 
If it's going to turn out that "Sing and weave and forge O makers, O breakers. Cast off the brute shackles of Must Be, the blinders of Today, and dream the shape of paradise" and "There will be One who is Many, and it will be beautiful" are something that could only ever go wrong is a possibility I think that's something we're going to have to deal with at some point, but also no I do not think that's a risk. Fundamentally I don't think the Hui went wrong because of an ascension that could never actually go well.

I think the Hui went wrong because while the woman who became Palace of One seemingly had good ideals at the heart of it, the actual way in practice she and the Hui got there was through the worst sort of shitty imperial politicking and her successors never unlearned those lessons.
 
I personally don't want to read about all the horrific things that are in the roots. Can we keep the poor readers in mind while making these decisions? This is a book that thousands of people are going to be reading, and they didn't sign up for a psychological horror story.


[X] The lesson of the palace
 
Hmm. So. Hmm. Not to throw a wrench in everything or anything, but, uh, @yrsillar there's been something tickling my brain about this vote, and I think I just figured it out.

The adventure we're voting for is during the wedding trip north, but the art development we're doing isn't for the wedding trip north.

So, first off, obviously we're having this vote now so there's time to plan out the arc that we pick in advance. Which makes total sense, but it took me a while to reorient it in the timeframe it's going to happen.

The wedding trip is already pretty busy. There's a bunch of characters waiting to be reintroduced to the story, like the 4 Bai buddies, Meng Dan, Sixiang, Diao Hualing, maybe Xuan Shi, and that's all before the actual wedding/politics intrigue stuff starts, with any characters that might bring, like Jin Tae, completely new faces, etc. It's also already starting to get crowded up with committed arcs. There's the ith talks with Diao Hualing and the ministries, the actual wedding itself, (re)intro arcs for characters. Sixiang's in particular kind of has to be meaty.

And this vote is adding on another side-arc, which is unrelated to the wedding trip as a whole.

And the specific. Our gains from it are targeted at the war arc, which isn't the major arc we'll be involved in at the time. The tools we pick up from our Shu Yue adventure won't even be applicable to the wedding stuff. So actually using those tools will be put on hold for months, waiting for the war arc. Where other major arts of ours, like FFS and MRE are already waiting in the wings to get their "real" debuts. None of that is ideal.

Structurally, it seems like a weird dynamic. Environments like the wedding are kind of where Thief of Names is particularly suited to operate; why is it going on this side-dip into tools that are decidedly unsuited for the wedding, and why is it doing so right before or during that arc? It seems strange. The art will then be in a traffic jam/knife-fight with other arts, as soon as the war arc starts. In the past, this has usually caused us to rapidly cycle through art focuses without much rhyme or reason, just to GET THEM DONE, to the detriment of everything. It's what happened during the summit arc, honestly.

There's a lot of leap-frogging around the place, in both the short and medium terms, and I just don't think it's well-conceived. It's a bunch of stuff getting in its own way, and in the way of the other things we're doing along the way. This roadmap puts extra time/pacing constraints on the the wedding arc as a whole, denies and delays implementation of the Thief of Names development we'll be doing itself, and sets up unproductive art tensions for the war arc.

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Miscellaneous thoughts:
-Is the idea for Sixiang to join up with us for this Shu Yue adventure? Because if so, god damn did we need that information up-front.
-I think this analysis is pretty unfriendly to both options as a whole, but technically the Palace option at least leaves open the potential of some of what we learn actually being used during the wedding arc, with the perception stuff.
-I had a third thought but I forgor
 
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I don't want to see the (a?) best dream as something that can only go wrong? I think that's a risk.
But we're not gonna? I mean, we're gonna see how it can go wrong but like it's been said, there's no concept that is not also a weapon. If Ling Qi's Way is gonna be Communication based, she's gonna have to convince other people of it. To make people See Her Point; and Palace of One is very similar in intent. PoS sought unity through a shared Dream- though the execution was fudged, it can serve as an example to LQ on What Not to Do. To enable her to convince other people on her Way without subversion or compulsion.
 
There's a lot of leap-frogging around the place, in both the short and medium terms, and I just don't think it's well-conceived. It's a bunch of stuff getting in its own way, and in the way of the other things we're doing along the way. This roadmap puts extra time/pacing constraints on the the wedding arc as a whole, denies and delays implementation of the Thief of Names development we'll be doing itself, and sets up unproductive art tensions for the war arc.
I think that's a consequence of the new short month structure. In this particular case, it might just be useful to make us vote this now for planning purposes, or it could have out-of-character consequences for the loot of a certain activity we're doing before we get there... After all, we could conceivably receive a flute from either the Piper spirit in the Cathedral of Winds or the Palace of One, but only if we actually go and meet the palace...
 
I think that's a consequence of the new short month structure. In this particular case, it might just be useful to make us vote this now for planning purposes, or it could have out-of-character consequences for the loot of a certain activity we're doing before we get there... After all, we could conceivably receive a flute from either the Piper spirit in the Cathedral of Winds or the Palace of One, but only if we actually go and meet the palace...
I mean, the fact that the project is war-oriented and unrelated/unuseful to/for the overarching arc we're at Xiangmen for doesn't have anything to do with the month structures, at least. And that's what's causing the bulk of the pacing complications.
 
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Another reason why I prefer palace to roots is that it's more versatile. Roots is purely about hurting.
"There, you would learn of the tools which abrade a person down to their least selves," Shu Yue said. "You have learned to walk in the mind, in the personal Dream of a cultivator. Here you would learn to hurt, with the deliberation of a surgeon's scalpel."
Palace can also be used to hurt, but not just that.
The Palace of One. She whose dream was never shared, the throne of ideals. You have floated in her orbit. I would take you deeper. To know the terrible, scouring fire that is hope. To know how minds may bend toward a distant and unreachable dream. And how these things may be turned. How they may be broken and twisted, the lesson the descendants took from her. This would be another lesson of sight. But as befitting the coming war, it too is a lesson of hurt, if one lesser than the roots."
Considering that I don't want either the Ith'ia or Cloud war to end with them getting genocided, learning more about inspiring people to pursue something better, as well as the ways in which it can go wrong, sounds really useful.
 
I think that's a consequence of the new short month structure. In this particular case, it might just be useful to make us vote this now for planning purposes, or it could have out-of-character consequences for the loot of a certain activity we're doing before we get there... After all, we could conceivably receive a flute from either the Piper spirit in the Cathedral of Winds or the Palace of One, but only if we actually go and meet the palace...

I don't think we would get the flute from the Piper. They barely have any relation to LQ, and there is no reason why they would be able to manipulate LQ's powerful materials like the Sacrifice Wood of the Crone to fabricate a flute. We don't even know which realm the Piper is.

What I think we'll get from them is a flute material. After all, I think that a high level instrument talisman should include an explicitly music qi aligned material. Currently, the Cathedral is the only Music aligned site at our disposal. A Wind/Music site, so it fits to a tee.

The most likely source of a flute is that moon mission we have pending. Xin told us to bring the moon sect map next time we cultivate a moon project, so that would be the perfect chance.
 
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I think that's a consequence of the new short month structure. In this particular case, it might just be useful to make us vote this now for planning purposes, or it could have out-of-character consequences for the loot of a certain activity we're doing before we get there... After all, we could conceivably receive a flute from either the Piper spirit in the Cathedral of Winds or the Palace of One, but only if we actually go and meet the palace...
It is, I need to establish some arcs so I can outline and plan them ahead of time and minimize my frantic make shit up the literal second I'm typing it times
 
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