Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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Metok seems like a pre-Tsu/Bountiful Earth.
Most people in the empire think Tsu single handedly created the seasons(one of three kings who changed the entire World) , but do weather gods work localy or did Tsu built the seasons on top of Metok's work ?
The fifth sky is the Mother Moon or the Hidden Moon ?
Ling Qi is only going to be surprised but the empire (especialy pro-imperial and MOI) are going to loose their shit if they learn that one of their most honored and beloved spirit was a barbarian all along.
When you ascend to a Great Spirit, can you still even have favourites, like enpower ome group over another?
For ones like Tribulations Unending, I imagine that it would enpower anyone going through tribulations, whether within the empire or not.
But for one like Unity Of Blades, would always favour the Emerald Seas (or the empire), or does it benefit groups outside of it too?
Like, if Unity Of Blades whole thing is to create unity by having a common enemy, then the Cloud Nomads uniting agains the Emeral Seas definitely applies...
Or would UoB* only enpower Emerald Seas since, well, the person who ascended into UoB did so to unite ES.
On a similar topic, there are two seasonal nomad ascentions, Lord of Summer, Lord of Spring.
Is their worship allowed at all within the empire?
Is there some mental gymnastics / legal loopholes people have to go through. Like "No, this isn't a Lord of Spring shrine, this is Bountiful Earth, providing a great boost to our crops only in spring"
Or, as asked in the previous question, would Lord of Spring simply not give any benefit to ES at all?
And if the Cloud Nomads have ascentions into the Sun and Moon (I assume Lord of Summer and Lady of Night ascended into them), would shrines to the Sun or Moon within the empire have references to them too?
* I got tired if writing out Unitiy of Blades in full each time, but UoB sounds like a university. UoB alumini rise up! 🙌
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It fits the hidden moon yes, but you can't call her a barbarian since she was probably so long ago that she ascended before the Imperials and nomads even diverged. She is held to be the first phase of the moon to be separated from the guiding moon after all, in the first age pre dragon gods. Basically a god that they have in common because she was so old and important.
Aliya
Someone I might become
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The funny thing about fifth sky being Hidden Moon is that it is literally impossible/contradictory with Imperial Calendar. Unless the Jungle was driven to madness before the Sage Emperor, and I think lowlander kings part is talking about the Sage Emperor. Sage Emperor, of course, existed thousands of years after Hidden Moon ascended.
Yeah, which means we can't really take the ascension timeline given here seriously, so to know who came first we need to look for context clues and look at other stuff we know, which we don't really have on Metok
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Year 46 Month 1 Arc 1-2 White Plume
"Even should Lady Cai find this unfeasible, I think I would be able to match the lower end of that," Ling Qi mused. Fifty Green stones in a year was not a trivial amount, but nor was it very onerous.
Xia Lin shot her a bemused look, resting her chin on her hands. Mei Lanfen blinked in surprise.
"Hat is generous of you, though I did not mean to imply that the Gold Autumn school was pleading for more funding, Lady Cai's assistance is most needed in bringing new barons in the south around to the notion of investing more in their administration early on," The older woman said, eyeing her curiously.
"I understood this," Ling Qi said. "But I have been put in the mind of looking for investments while I am here in the capital, and... Even without an immediate return, this seems like a good one."
"I suppose it is not a bad thing to have younger donors as well," Mei Lanfen said slowly. "It is true that among our number we do not all have descendants willing to continue this hobby of ours."
"I am more surprised that such funds are required to train first and second-realm scholars and clerks," Xia Lin said. "...Though I understand the cost of a knothole space such as this is not insignificant itself."
"The bulk of the cost lies in teacher salaries and training materials," Mei Lanfen replied. "We have been making the effort to convert our teaching supplies over to jade slips and slabs… it produces better results."
Ling Qi hummed to herself feeling out to the rest of the school. "...You seem to be aiming for third-realm teachers as well. I suppose they can handle more students?"
"And are more effective even with fewer," Mei Lanfen agreed. "I and a few others at least, hold some hope of expanding. A location in the outer boroughs of Xiangmen has been planned."
"It may not be cost-effective, but I think more… lower schools may be good. I understand if Xiangmen needs them less than other places, but other cities might do well with them," Ling Qi said.
She didn't normally think about it. Her past was her own, she was not Renxiang, and she didn't… think of the faceless strangers beyond her reach very much.
Shu Yue's training exercise… made it hard not to though.
"...Well I guess I'm glad you're not just wallowing in it. Don't make Momma Ling freak out about spending too much though, yeah? That'll just make you feel worse."
Mei Lanfen considered her silently for a moment. "With such a generous donation, we could certainly consider that… I've no doubt you know the children's schools are not particularly expensive, though being thorough in the checks and divinations of its staff's background and conduct is a bit more so. But, I must ask if you are really certain of this baroness. This offer does strike me as a bit impulsive."
"I suppose it is at that," Ling Qi agreed. "I really should be investigating other opportunities first, seeing everything which I might have a chance to invest in and only then deciding."
"I could offer some advice on this, should you wish," Mei Lanfen said. "Certainly before you commit."
Ling Qi studied her, sitting up a little straighter in her chair. She supposed if anything the older woman's reluctance to just take her at her word reaffirmed her resolve. Even knowing her history with the Duchess purges… really looking at her now… this woman was one whose intentions she trusted. She had no idea how to go about helping large numbers of people in the way she could. "No, I might take you up on the advice later, but you will have your fifty stones unless you outright refuse me."
She frowned at Ling Qi, searching her face for something. Whatever it was she eventually seemed satisfied, shaking her head. "...As you wish. I will not do that. We may draw up the terms of the transfer later if you wish."
"Of course, I am sorry for interrupting your original offer," Ling Qi chuckled, bowing her head apologetically.
"Then I will continue unless Lieutenant Xia has something to add?" Mei Lanfen asked politely, leaning forward over her desk.
"I have my own intentions for expenses in the capital, so I shall not," Xia Lin said dryly, pulling her eyes away from the window overlooking the gardens. "Please resume. I am curious about the news you say you have for me specifically."
"Of course, I will get to it soon. As I was saying, some among us have plans for expansion should it be feasible, but even then one school will not be able to serve the whole province, nor should it. The older clans in particular are less amenable to institutions like these, preferring their own methods…"
Or lack thereof was left unsaid.
"But the Wang and Jia clan in particular have made some moves toward establishing education in their lands, they are the most likely to take us up on adding schools outside Cai lands. Like the rest of the southern lands, the opportunity to establish a 'new normal' is the most open there, from which the practice can fill in the more established lands," Mei Lanfen continued. "There need only be an impetus to the movement."
"This is where Lady Cai's funding is most useful since she can do more than provide raw funding. As the heiress, she can make offers that might be seen as insulting or overly entangling, outside the normal chains of fealty, on top of showing the success in her methods at Shenglu," Ling Qi concluded. That would allow some penetration even in the Count clans in the south, who would look much more poorly on any other outside force 'interfering' in their territory.
The older clans would probably dislike it anyway, but if it encouraged them to make their own institutions then that was still to everyones benefit. Perhaps she should inform Meng Dan so he could speak to his grandmother and let the reformist Meng get out ahead of things.
"Just so, without the heiress of the Cai this plan is not possible, even with Baroness Ling's contribution we will be limited to merely gaining more locations in Xiangmen and its surroundings," Mei Lanfen said.
"I agree, I will bring this matter to Lady Cai as soon as I can. I believe that she will answer in the affirmative, and be able to speak with you on the details when the Duchess' wedding has passed," Ling Qi said. "Do you agree Xia Lin?"
"It seems to be within our Lady's interest, and the worst that may occur is that it does not spark as much reaction as you hope. I do not believe the Gold Autumn school foolish enough to attempt to defraud the Cai clan," Xia Lin said with a small shrug. "If you may, this news?"
Ling Qi glanced at her companion, she really was curious.
"Of course, though, I must apologize if the news I share has already reached you," Mei Lanfen said. "There has been significant upheaval as some of the lands which had been seized from the defunct court clans in the outer Xiangmen burroughs has finally been put to use. The Horned Legion will have its mustering grounds here among the roots."
"That was expected though the details are not set," Xia Lin replied, cocking an eyebrow. "But this is hardly news.
"It is not, what may however is that the Heron General has petitioned for a large plot as well."
Xia Lin frowned.
"It is my understanding that she wishes to officially transfer the Xia clan's living space here," Mei Lanfen said carefully. "As I have said, I mean no insult in giving you your own clans news, however…"
"General Xia is not in the practice of consulting her clan before making decisions," Xia Lin said abruptly. "No apologies are needed, this is news."
There was a moment of awkward silence between all three of them, only the faint sound of the wind blowing through a chime outside breaking it. She could even feel Sixiang wince slightly in her head.
Xia Lin let out a sharp breath through her nose. "As a reward for leal' service some of the best agricultural land in the province is no small one. The Xia are blessed."
It sounded rather mechanical.
"I suppose you should wish I raise your school's name among my clansfolk?"
Mei Lanfen gave a shallow nod. "I know that your clan has been promoting ministry work to a lesser extent than military, but of course, we would be happy to provide finishing schooling and exam preparation to any who might wish for it. I understand the Xia clan's infrastructure is…"
"Lacking," Xia Lin agreed stonily. She paused, smoothing away her frown. "Yes, I understand why you would wish to extend a hand with this. The Xia clan's star is rising, but our leadership is not the sort to hollow out your administration should a few successful graduates pass through. I will speak to some of my relations who might have an interest."
"...That is all I ask," Mei Lanfen said.
There was a beat of silence. "Well, would you young ladies care to tour the facility proper then? I may also offer you the advice on investment if you wish."
"Please," Xia Lin said, rising abruptly to her feet.
"Of course," Ling Qi said, rising as well
She'd have to ask her friend about it later, she had an inkling of what the problem might be, but speaking of it further here just wasn't appropriate.
Observing the school in Mei Lanfen's wake as she showed them through the halls only deepened the impressions that she already had. It was a very rigorous and disciplined place… Ling Qi somewhat doubted she would be well suited to its halls. It taught its students literature, handwriting, mathematics, and critical thinking skills, and even had some elective courses on basic formation craft… mainly to the end of encoding information in jade, which was always an in-demand skill and one that didn't demand too much qi from the one doing it, only the initial investment of the jade itself.
A well sought after clerical skill in many places, she could understand why they might teach it despite the expense of the practice materials.
The older woman had many things to say on the matter of where a young noble's investments could do the most work as well, and Ling Qi was thankful for it. But she admitted she was distracted from it. She wanted to speak with Xia Lin before she could really focus on that kind of thing.
Soon, they left the Gold Autumn school and Mei Lanfen behind.
Xia Lin shot her a bemused look, resting her chin on her hands. Mei Lanfen blinked in surprise.
"Hat is generous of you, though I did not mean to imply that the Gold Autumn school was pleading for more funding, Lady Cai's assistance is most needed in bringing new barons in the south around to the notion of investing more in their administration early on," The older woman said, eyeing her curiously.
"I understood this," Ling Qi said. "But I have been put in the mind of looking for investments while I am here in the capital, and... Even without an immediate return, this seems like a good one."
"I suppose it is not a bad thing to have younger donors as well," Mei Lanfen said slowly. "It is true that among our number we do not all have descendants willing to continue this hobby of ours."
"I am more surprised that such funds are required to train first and second-realm scholars and clerks," Xia Lin said. "...Though I understand the cost of a knothole space such as this is not insignificant itself."
"The bulk of the cost lies in teacher salaries and training materials," Mei Lanfen replied. "We have been making the effort to convert our teaching supplies over to jade slips and slabs… it produces better results."
Ling Qi hummed to herself feeling out to the rest of the school. "...You seem to be aiming for third-realm teachers as well. I suppose they can handle more students?"
"And are more effective even with fewer," Mei Lanfen agreed. "I and a few others at least, hold some hope of expanding. A location in the outer boroughs of Xiangmen has been planned."
"It may not be cost-effective, but I think more… lower schools may be good. I understand if Xiangmen needs them less than other places, but other cities might do well with them," Ling Qi said.
She didn't normally think about it. Her past was her own, she was not Renxiang, and she didn't… think of the faceless strangers beyond her reach very much.
Shu Yue's training exercise… made it hard not to though.
"...Well I guess I'm glad you're not just wallowing in it. Don't make Momma Ling freak out about spending too much though, yeah? That'll just make you feel worse."
Mei Lanfen considered her silently for a moment. "With such a generous donation, we could certainly consider that… I've no doubt you know the children's schools are not particularly expensive, though being thorough in the checks and divinations of its staff's background and conduct is a bit more so. But, I must ask if you are really certain of this baroness. This offer does strike me as a bit impulsive."
"I suppose it is at that," Ling Qi agreed. "I really should be investigating other opportunities first, seeing everything which I might have a chance to invest in and only then deciding."
"I could offer some advice on this, should you wish," Mei Lanfen said. "Certainly before you commit."
Ling Qi studied her, sitting up a little straighter in her chair. She supposed if anything the older woman's reluctance to just take her at her word reaffirmed her resolve. Even knowing her history with the Duchess purges… really looking at her now… this woman was one whose intentions she trusted. She had no idea how to go about helping large numbers of people in the way she could. "No, I might take you up on the advice later, but you will have your fifty stones unless you outright refuse me."
She frowned at Ling Qi, searching her face for something. Whatever it was she eventually seemed satisfied, shaking her head. "...As you wish. I will not do that. We may draw up the terms of the transfer later if you wish."
"Of course, I am sorry for interrupting your original offer," Ling Qi chuckled, bowing her head apologetically.
"Then I will continue unless Lieutenant Xia has something to add?" Mei Lanfen asked politely, leaning forward over her desk.
"I have my own intentions for expenses in the capital, so I shall not," Xia Lin said dryly, pulling her eyes away from the window overlooking the gardens. "Please resume. I am curious about the news you say you have for me specifically."
"Of course, I will get to it soon. As I was saying, some among us have plans for expansion should it be feasible, but even then one school will not be able to serve the whole province, nor should it. The older clans in particular are less amenable to institutions like these, preferring their own methods…"
Or lack thereof was left unsaid.
"But the Wang and Jia clan in particular have made some moves toward establishing education in their lands, they are the most likely to take us up on adding schools outside Cai lands. Like the rest of the southern lands, the opportunity to establish a 'new normal' is the most open there, from which the practice can fill in the more established lands," Mei Lanfen continued. "There need only be an impetus to the movement."
"This is where Lady Cai's funding is most useful since she can do more than provide raw funding. As the heiress, she can make offers that might be seen as insulting or overly entangling, outside the normal chains of fealty, on top of showing the success in her methods at Shenglu," Ling Qi concluded. That would allow some penetration even in the Count clans in the south, who would look much more poorly on any other outside force 'interfering' in their territory.
The older clans would probably dislike it anyway, but if it encouraged them to make their own institutions then that was still to everyones benefit. Perhaps she should inform Meng Dan so he could speak to his grandmother and let the reformist Meng get out ahead of things.
"Just so, without the heiress of the Cai this plan is not possible, even with Baroness Ling's contribution we will be limited to merely gaining more locations in Xiangmen and its surroundings," Mei Lanfen said.
"I agree, I will bring this matter to Lady Cai as soon as I can. I believe that she will answer in the affirmative, and be able to speak with you on the details when the Duchess' wedding has passed," Ling Qi said. "Do you agree Xia Lin?"
"It seems to be within our Lady's interest, and the worst that may occur is that it does not spark as much reaction as you hope. I do not believe the Gold Autumn school foolish enough to attempt to defraud the Cai clan," Xia Lin said with a small shrug. "If you may, this news?"
Ling Qi glanced at her companion, she really was curious.
"Of course, though, I must apologize if the news I share has already reached you," Mei Lanfen said. "There has been significant upheaval as some of the lands which had been seized from the defunct court clans in the outer Xiangmen burroughs has finally been put to use. The Horned Legion will have its mustering grounds here among the roots."
"That was expected though the details are not set," Xia Lin replied, cocking an eyebrow. "But this is hardly news.
"It is not, what may however is that the Heron General has petitioned for a large plot as well."
Xia Lin frowned.
"It is my understanding that she wishes to officially transfer the Xia clan's living space here," Mei Lanfen said carefully. "As I have said, I mean no insult in giving you your own clans news, however…"
"General Xia is not in the practice of consulting her clan before making decisions," Xia Lin said abruptly. "No apologies are needed, this is news."
There was a moment of awkward silence between all three of them, only the faint sound of the wind blowing through a chime outside breaking it. She could even feel Sixiang wince slightly in her head.
Xia Lin let out a sharp breath through her nose. "As a reward for leal' service some of the best agricultural land in the province is no small one. The Xia are blessed."
It sounded rather mechanical.
"I suppose you should wish I raise your school's name among my clansfolk?"
Mei Lanfen gave a shallow nod. "I know that your clan has been promoting ministry work to a lesser extent than military, but of course, we would be happy to provide finishing schooling and exam preparation to any who might wish for it. I understand the Xia clan's infrastructure is…"
"Lacking," Xia Lin agreed stonily. She paused, smoothing away her frown. "Yes, I understand why you would wish to extend a hand with this. The Xia clan's star is rising, but our leadership is not the sort to hollow out your administration should a few successful graduates pass through. I will speak to some of my relations who might have an interest."
"...That is all I ask," Mei Lanfen said.
There was a beat of silence. "Well, would you young ladies care to tour the facility proper then? I may also offer you the advice on investment if you wish."
"Please," Xia Lin said, rising abruptly to her feet.
"Of course," Ling Qi said, rising as well
She'd have to ask her friend about it later, she had an inkling of what the problem might be, but speaking of it further here just wasn't appropriate.
Observing the school in Mei Lanfen's wake as she showed them through the halls only deepened the impressions that she already had. It was a very rigorous and disciplined place… Ling Qi somewhat doubted she would be well suited to its halls. It taught its students literature, handwriting, mathematics, and critical thinking skills, and even had some elective courses on basic formation craft… mainly to the end of encoding information in jade, which was always an in-demand skill and one that didn't demand too much qi from the one doing it, only the initial investment of the jade itself.
A well sought after clerical skill in many places, she could understand why they might teach it despite the expense of the practice materials.
The older woman had many things to say on the matter of where a young noble's investments could do the most work as well, and Ling Qi was thankful for it. But she admitted she was distracted from it. She wanted to speak with Xia Lin before she could really focus on that kind of thing.
Soon, they left the Gold Autumn school and Mei Lanfen behind.
So Xia Ren is moving her clan completely from their ancestral lands among the hills. I can see why that might bother Xia Lin considering we've seen hints that she wanted to reconnect with her clan roots more...
I am holding out hope that this pushes Xia Lin more towards the make her own clan route rather then staying on a primary military path. She was undecided before and we seen hints that she is not as dismissive of tradition and values as Xia Ren is.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, that is quite the bit of news to receive what amounts to second hand.
Mei Lanfen: Giving you news about your own clan is kinda odd but…
Xia Lin: The general doesn't tell us shit, before or sometimes even after she does things.
*cue awkward silence*
Mei Lanfen: Giving you news about your own clan is kinda odd but…
Xia Lin: The general doesn't tell us shit, before or sometimes even after she does things.
*cue awkward silence*
What happens to the old Xia lands?
- Location
- USA
I think it's still there and owned by the Xia (they're living somewhere, after all). The General is moving her clan as simply another way to sever her clan's historical ties and practices.
Not sure what they do with the old land after the move, though.
I imagine that's something we'll be finding out more about when Xia Lin actually has the opportunity to find out what's going on.
I don't think it's that easy to wind down a viscounty like that though. There'd need to be someone else to take over. I suspect that this is something that'll take a long time to actually happen, and in the mean time there'll be a Xia indigo elder or two and a bunch of their cyan's and greens left there to manage their responsibilities.
Which leaves time for things to boil over in a few decades when Xia Lin is a higher ranking member of the clan.
I don't think it's that easy to wind down a viscounty like that though. There'd need to be someone else to take over. I suspect that this is something that'll take a long time to actually happen, and in the mean time there'll be a Xia indigo elder or two and a bunch of their cyan's and greens left there to manage their responsibilities.
Which leaves time for things to boil over in a few decades when Xia Lin is a higher ranking member of the clan.
I hope the Hill tribes experience a cultural renaissance via being able to adventure in the Wall and among the White Sky, both because it would right a historical wrong and because it would drive General Genocide up the wall, that culture destroying piece of shit.
On one hand, that'll still have the same long term sustainability issues. Otoh, the wall is going to remain wilderness for a loooonnng time.
What the Hill tribes need is room in which to practise their Dungeon and Dragons adventurer style of cultivation. They're a bit like the Zheng in that way I think.
The way this is described it doesn't need to be unsettled territory. They just need to be able to do new things, which they can't right now because they're basically stuck on reservations.Yrsillar said:
Yeah but that's largely a product of settlement and development. When you've got everything nicely set up and stable with the local spirits, you don't want some adventurer wandering through messing things up.
- Location
- Washington
The trader caravans they're allowed to do in limited amounts apparently count, so the boundary for "new things" can't be THAT constrained by settlement and development. It really does mostly sound like it's the reservation thing.
- Pronouns
- he him
I know there are already factions in the emerald seas but I feel like we are seeing the birth of at least one new one. A centralization based one that has no real strong clan backing but creates support and growth opportunities for independents and helps shape the culture of the mortals. Given that a lot of the Wall is open to settling and the Xia moving closer to Xiangmen it seems likely that people more opposed to this type of growth will be pushed or flee to the south and create a faction with some as of yet undetermined qualities there.
I'm enjoying how much fun Xia Lin seems to have when the Ling Qi-ness isn't directed at her