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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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The great sect system is very interesting in how it came about. I don't think I have seen a xainxai do anything similar before.

It also means that the argent sect is older than I expected. It likely existed as a minor sect supporting one of the major clans. That clan gets almost wiped out and by imperial decree the sect absorbs the old clans land.

It also makes all the politics at the end of the first thread all the more interesting. At first I had thought that a great sect was simply a large sect that got imperial patronage and the sect was simply helping those it thought would give it the most funding. But that's not the case. Great sects were created using imperial power to expand and centeralize imperial power. Great sects are a symbol of the power of the imperial seat. Now one of them seems to be supporting a power bloc that is aligning themselves against the empress.

This makes the upcoming intersect tournament even more important. If the two other great sects rejected Cai's advances yet the Argent sect wins that tournament it will show that Cai can offer better support to the great Sects than the imperial seat. That could sway more great sects to supporting the Cai-Bai-Xaun power block forming and make an already messy situation even messier.
 
We saw the perspective of the Ministry Agent, and they mentioned that the Argent Sect wanted more funding but wasn't likely to get it from the Imperial Throne. I think we also got some tidbits about Shenhua paying at least some for the Sects. Maybe that's from back when she forged her anti-Hui alliance and took over, promising the Sects some funding in exchange for support. I wonder if it's common for Ducal houses to support the Great Sects in their province and undermining Imperial influence on the Sects that way. Or if they usually try to starve the sects and curtail their power that way. I suspect it depends on the individual Ducal house.

Something tells me that the Bai aren't likely to be buddy-buddy with the Great Sect in the Thousand Lakes Province...
 
yrsillar said:
The Imperial Family is unlikely to offer invitation, the Cai have no candidates, the Jin have placed their fortunes in the Sun's camp, negotiations with the Xuan have fallen through, the Guo are too far for useful alliance, and the Zheng regard the entire concept as a farce. It
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Neshuakadal said:
Now one of them seems to be supporting a power bloc that is aligning themselves against the empress.
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I wouldn't agree with the Bai, xuan and Cai camp not being aligned with the empress.

First of all because we know Cai mom is friendly with the current empress.

Secondly because of what I quoted. The Bais do not consider a guo alliance usefull to them as they would be too far. Which means that they don't even envisage attacking or pushing the imperial seat around (as the guo border the other side of the celestial peak, which would be very usefull for any blockade). This seems to confirm what we expected from the previous thread, the imperial pressure on the Bai has significantly disminished, to the point where the imperial seat isn't anymore considered a major political opponent by the bais.

So yeah, the Bai Cai Xuan camp is not a power block aligned against the empress, as the only ones that could be (the bais) are not.
 
archangis said:
I wouldn't agree with the Bai, xuan and Cai camp not being aligned with the empress.

First of all because we know Cai mom is friendly with the current empress.

Secondly because of what I quoted. The Bais do not consider a guo alliance usefull to them as they would be too far. Which means that they don't even envisage attacking or pushing the imperial seat around (as the guo border the other side of the celestial peak, which would be very usefull for any blockade). This seems to confirm what we expected from the previous thread, the imperial pressure on the Bai has significantly disminished, to the point where the imperial seat isn't anymore considered a major political opponent by the bais.

So yeah, the Bai Cai Xuan camp is not a power block aligned against the empress, as the only ones that could be (the bais) are not.
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The question becomes why has the imperial pressure on the Bai's significantly diminished? Is it because the Bai's have made allies that won't let the Imperial seat push them around? Remember that the imperial seat had Meizhen's mother killed likely on false charges. This is not something that the Bai are going to forget. The fact that the imperial seat has backed off of pressuring the Bai shows that the bloc the Bai are a part of is doing it's purpose. In this age where the imperial seat is trying to project as much power as it can simply not allowing the imperial seat to do what it want's is going against the imperial seat.

As for Cai being friendly to the empress we know that Cai makes a lot of dresses for the empress. I do a lot of business with my grocery store but I am not friends with them. If everyone does believe Cai and the empress are friends then it may add another layer onto this whole mess.

So the main problem in this current generation is the kingship of the Sun. This was an attempt of the late emperor to massively check the power of the Bai and thus the power of old clans. If he could strip a great deal of power from the Bai that would free a lot of imperial influence to handle the older clans. However because Elder Jiao lost his way the ministry of influence did not come into it's full power and the late Emperor ascended. This has created a rather large problem for the current empress and the plans of the imperial seat to gather power to itself and away from the clans. The problem is the kingship of the Sun. It's hereditary. This is a huge problem if you want to consolidate power. If the imperial seat also wants to normalize relationships between them and the Bai in order to lower tension in the empire the Sun also stand in the way of that. It is hard to overturn the decisions of a late Emperor without questioning his decisions. If you question the decisions of an emperor then you question the strength of the imperial seat. This is not what an imperial seat wants when it's trying to grow it's power.

So now you have the Bai on one side and the Sun on the other side. If the Bai had lost more power and influence or if the MOL had completed it's ascent then everything would have simplified. You arrange the forces needed to humble the Bai and then you slowly switch those forces from snake hunting to removing the Sun from their kingship. This would get rid of the two biggest threats to the imperial power. However this didn't happen. So the current imperial seat has to make a choice who do they go after first? The Sun which is a smaller clan and haven't held onto their kingship for more than a generation, or the Bai a large clan and that could also drag the Zhang into the mess. The Sun seems likely the logical choice. They are smaller and newer. However that would bring into question the previous emperors judgement which weakens the power of the imperial seat.

Now though the imperial seat could have an out to this situation. If Empress is friends, or even pretending to be friends, with Cai then she has an out in that friendship. The imperial seat could stay out of the upcoming political brawl between the blocs of the Sun and the bloc of the Bai by citing friendship to Cai. While the empress can't side with the Bai bloc because of all the bad blood she can stay out of their way as they try to maul the Sun and Jin. This ties down nearly all the ducal seats in this massive political spat and allows the empress to continue trying to weaken ducal power and increase imperial power.

It's even better in the Empress eyes if this develops into the point of armed conflict between the ducal seats since she could then flex imperial muscle to shut down the conflict while removing more of the privileges of the dukes.

Of course this is all speculation since we don't have all the information. Ling Qi is simple an outsider watching a massive political game being played above her.
 
Neshuakadal said:
The question becomes why has the imperial pressure on the Bai's significantly diminished? Is it because the Bai's have made allies that won't let the Imperial seat push them around? Remember that the imperial seat had Meizhen's mother killed likely on false charges. This is not something that the Bai are going to forget. The fact that the imperial seat has backed off of pressuring the Bai shows that the bloc the Bai are a part of is doing it's purpose. In this age where the imperial seat is trying to project as much power as it can simply not allowing the imperial seat to do what it want's is going against the imperial seat.

As for Cai being friendly to the empress we know that Cai makes a lot of dresses for the empress. I do a lot of business with my grocery store but I am not friends with them. If everyone does believe Cai and the empress are friends then it may add another layer onto this whole mess.

So the main problem in this current generation is the kingship of the Sun. This was an attempt of the late emperor to massively check the power of the Bai and thus the power of old clans. If he could strip a great deal of power from the Bai that would free a lot of imperial influence to handle the older clans. However because Elder Jiao lost his way the ministry of influence did not come into it's full power and the late Emperor ascended. This has created a rather large problem for the current empress and the plans of the imperial seat to gather power to itself and away from the clans. The problem is the kingship of the Sun. It's hereditary. This is a huge problem if you want to consolidate power. If the imperial seat also wants to normalize relationships between them and the Bai in order to lower tension in the empire the Sun also stand in the way of that. It is hard to overturn the decisions of a late Emperor without questioning his decisions. If you question the decisions of an emperor then you question the strength of the imperial seat. This is not what an imperial seat wants when it's trying to grow it's power.

So now you have the Bai on one side and the Sun on the other side. If the Bai had lost more power and influence or if the MOL had completed it's ascent then everything would have simplified. You arrange the forces needed to humble the Bai and then you slowly switch those forces from snake hunting to removing the Sun from their kingship. This would get rid of the two biggest threats to the imperial power. However this didn't happen. So the current imperial seat has to make a choice who do they go after first? The Sun which is a smaller clan and haven't held onto their kingship for more than a generation, or the Bai a large clan and that could also drag the Zhang into the mess. The Sun seems likely the logical choice. They are smaller and newer. However that would bring into question the previous emperors judgement which weakens the power of the imperial seat.

Now though the imperial seat could have an out to this situation. If Empress is friends, or even pretending to be friends, with Cai then she has an out in that friendship. The imperial seat could stay out of the upcoming political brawl between the blocs of the Sun and the bloc of the Bai by citing friendship to Cai. While the empress can't side with the Bai bloc because of all the bad blood she can stay out of their way as they try to maul the Sun and Jin. This ties down nearly all the ducal seats in this massive political spat and allows the empress to continue trying to weaken ducal power and increase imperial power.

It's even better in the Empress eyes if this develops into the point of armed conflict between the ducal seats since she could then flex imperial muscle to shut down the conflict while removing more of the privileges of the dukes.

Of course this is all speculation since we don't have all the information. Ling Qi is simple an outsider watching a massive political game being played above her.
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Okay there is a lot of things wrong by wog.

First, Sun's kingship is not hereditary. That was on discord so I can't get it.

Secondly Cai /is/ friend with the empress (or the closest to being friend one can be as a white).

yrsillar said:
Cai Shenhua on the other hand was rather closely aligned with the empress, I.E. by what he knew she should have only been a bit less anti bai than him.
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Lastly nobody win in an armed conflict between ducal because everything would end up destroyed by white or ancestors. There can be no winner in such a fight.

Okay now let's discuss what is left. The imperial throne pressure on the Bai was already flagging as they had a prism that was nearing white. It ended up being removed far sooner because now the Bai are closely aligned to a strong suporter of the empress, but we need not to forget that it was going to happen either way. So knowing that, the fact that they allied themselves with Cai who support the empress means that they are willing to support the empress. As thus real politik happened and yesterday ennemies of the imperial throne became current friends.

In fact there is another point toward the Xuan and Cai being pro empress, the fact that they sent their kids willingly to a great sect, which we now know to be imperial bastions (from rr update). So the fact that the kids were sent here is a visible proof of their support of the empire.
 
EternalObserver said:
You know thinking about it, in terms of defence, we're actually in an elemental disadvantage, IF considering that applies. He's probably gonna use a melee fire art, then it burns our TRF then hit us (Fire > Wood). I wouldn't be surprised if his Phys Pen is decent enough to go past the armor.

Just kind of remembered the moment when we almost wrecked Dharitri with combination of HC & Zhen Bite (Ice & Fire vs Wood) compared to how Cui went against her.
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Don't forget that we actually have some fire resistance from our bond with Zhengui. It's not that impressive, but hey.
 
Y'all are seriously misreading the situation. The Cai-Bai-Xuan (and more distantly Zheng) alignment is Shenhua switching tacks and getting ahead of the Zheng going "okay, watching the Bai suffer was great and all, but we don't want the power of the old clans actually broken. We'd rather back the Bai than let things get too bad for us."

With the MoI failing to become another imperial seat white generator, the Imperial Seat doesn't have the power to seal the deal on full centralization, so Shenhua is switching to the inevitable new alignment, and by getting in on the ground floor is going to get much more political capital and legitimacy for her rule. The expected enemies for "new money" like the Cai would be "Old Money" like the Bai and Zheng and Xuan. She's turned who should be the clans who most oppose her into her allies with this realignment, at the cost of alienating an Empress whose power is already waning.

Now I want to make it clear this is a political realignment. It's not supposed to result in a civil war (unless you buy that Shenhua wants to put a perfectly crafted daughter on the imperial throne, but even then the other actors likely don't expect a war), just a shifting of the internal political calculus, and fits with the hints we have of Shenhua taking steps to win over the Argent Sect to suborn it, something she doesn't need to do if she's supporting the Empress and her bid for centralization.
 
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One has to wonder and marvel at how good Jiao is at hiding things.

If so much was at stake and moving behind the scenes and planned ahead with the single assumption that this humble spymaster would reach White, then people of all calibres surely were watching him quite closely. And noone managed to predict his failure.

And I don't believe that something so substantial as a near White cultivator breaks in a moment, Jiao's dissapointment in his own Way must have been building up for a significant time.
 
Varder said:
One has to wonder and marvel at how good Jiao is at hiding things.

If so much was at stake and moving behind the scenes and planned ahead with the single assumption that this humble spymaster would reach White, then people of all calibres surely were watching him quite closely. And noone managed to predict his failure.

And I don't believe that something so substantial as a near White cultivator breaks in a moment, Jiao's dissapointment in his own Way must have been building up for a significant time.
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Hrm.

Alternately, maybe he didn't lose his Way, he willingly stopped walking it because he didn't like where it was going.

Which suggests that he very much might be technically capable of completing the walk--just that he's not willing to take that final step for whatever reason.
 
Alectai said:
Alternately, maybe he didn't lose his Way, he willingly stopped walking it because he didn't like where it was going.
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I thought about that, but it seems less likely. Something like that would be checked thoroughly, and considering that he was a member of Empire's secret police, government agents could probably use as intrusive techniques as they wanted. I don't believe there's a lot of ways to hide anything at that point.
 
Diomedon said:
Ya'll are seriously misreading the situation. The Cai-Bai-Xuan (and more distantly Zheng) alignment is Shenhua switching tacks and getting ahead of the Zheng going "okay, watching the Bai suffer was great and all, but we don't want the power of the old clans actually broken. We'd rather back the Bai than let things get too bad for us."

With the MoI failing to become another imperial seat white generator, the Imperial Seat doesn't have the power to seal the deal on full centralization, so Shenhua is switching to the inevitable new alignment, and by getting in on the ground floor is going to get much more political capital and legitimacy for her rule. The expected enemies for "new money" like the Cai would be "Old Money" like the Bai and Zheng and Xuan. She's turned who should be the clans who most oppose her into her allies with this realignment, at the cost of alienating an Empress whose power is already waning.

Now I want to make it clear this is a political realignment. It's not supposed to result in a civil war (unless you buy that Shenhua wants to put a perfectly crafted daughter on the imperial throne, but even then the other actors likely don't expect a war), just a shifting of the internal political calculus, and fits with the hints we have of Shenhua taking steps to win over the Argent Sect to suborn it, something she doesn't need to do if she's supporting the Empress and her bid for centralization.
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That's a perfectly possible take, but it rely on Shenhua being willing to go against centralisation, which I don't think her able to as a white that made order or something along those lines part of herself. But I admit it's just a gut opposition rather than anything that can be proved so I bow out of this discussion.

Varder said:
I thought about that, but it seems less likely. Something like that would be checked thoroughly, and considering that he was a member of Empire's secret police, government agents could probably use as intrusive techniques as they wanted. I don't believe there's a lot of ways to hide anything at that point.
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Who guard the guards is in full action here. Nobody tell the scary boss of the branch of the kgb that they need to check on them to see if they are compromised, because it's his job.
 
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Varder said:
I thought about that, but it seems less likely. Something like that would be checked thoroughly, and considering that he was a member of Empire's secret police, government agents could probably use as intrusive techniques as they wanted. I don't believe there's a lot of ways to hide anything at that point.
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Given that he was well on his way to white I would be more surprised if they could find out his secrets. The simple talent gap would have been quite exceptional. Without another white to check it would be quite a challenge to prove one way or the other, and at his level he quite possibly had a few white level allies on his side. A moon spirit for example, could have helped with that, teach him some kind of phase of the moon based technique where he has multiple ways, and then he just bricks one of them for public view and leaves the others alone/hidden.
 
I for one am happy we could still have a chance to talk to Jiao and Xin. I liked the both of them and would really like to increase our bond with them up to maybe 3-4 (provided there aren't any competing votes *crosses fingers*). Even if we didn't choose Sect route, we can still chill Jiao out of his grumpiness and eventually have him cough up the details about what's up with his Way. Also talking with Xin is always fun.

Gotta say though, we got multiple people we're bonding for "Sect Connection" reasons. We got Shen Hu whose prospects seem to be a possible successor for Elder Ying as well as a connection to west Emerald Seas, Liao Zhu, our awesome Moon senpai who I believe will aim for Core Sect just like Yanmei, and maybe Elder (not enough info), then there's Jiao and Xin who are the immediate superiors to all of them and, just like Liao Zhu, a connection to Moon. Also give possible advices on how to be spy (unlikely right now). Debating on who do we want to invest more here in terms of Sect connections.

Edit: also didn't include Li Suyin and Su Ling here, cause for Suyin, while she may stay at the Sect, she also has another path leading to the Bao considering Qingling's interest towards her. Su Ling meanwhile has no interest in dealing with politics and going higher up. While she may stay around and be an officer in the army, I don't really associate her with the Sect since her main interest is killing her mother so she's gonna do her thing eventually (also want to recruit her for our clan)
 
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Varder said:
And I don't believe that something so substantial as a near White cultivator breaks in a moment, Jiao's dissapointment in his own Way must have been bu
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Imagine for a moment that instead of Meizhen being our roommate and Renxiang our first liege, they're fused into a Super Roomate, Reizhen. (Also everyone's gender swapped because I'm not imagining Renxiang in Meizhen's clothes and the reverse is weirder)

Mu Reizhen is passionate, supportive, and driven. He sees the worth in us when we still think that we're a coward who leaves his friends behind and steals a kind man's blanket. When we've just assumed our whole lives that the Lord in the tower is just an upscaled version of the guard who would beat us half or more to death if took a step out of line, Reizhen is just and evenhanded.

We follow Reizhen for centuries, shaping ourselves to complement him.

When Reizhen takes the throne, he needs someone he can trust, and we're there.

We shape ourselves again, into the Emperor's Shadow. The Emperor's Thousand Blades. The Emperor's Ten Thousand Eyes.

And then one day, Reizhen tells us that he's ready to move on.

The World is not fair. The World is not just. He will do his best to make it so, and bring about Inexorable Justice.

He asks us to watch over his descendents, until we're ready to join him. We wish him well.

All it would take is one mistake too many, one selfish act to stand in contrast to Reizhen and we would realize.

We're not the Emperor's Shadow.

We're Reizhen's Shadow, but Reizhen is gone.

And the Empress is not Reizhen.
 
Finally caught up!

Anyways, this might be a little off-topic, but what do you all think of researching a Siren-like Song Art? One that, in combat, would agro all enemies in range toward us and captivate them, preventing them from taking any actions for one turn(s).
 
7ime1ock said:
Finally caught up!

Anyways, this might be a little off-topic, but what do you all think of researching a Siren-like Song Art? One that, in combat, would agro all enemies in range toward us and captivate them, preventing them from taking any actions for one turn(s).
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Over here

Covetous Wraith's Yearning

Potency: Green 1
Potency Growth: Green 2(3), Green 3(5)
Max Level: 5
Needed Meridians: Head x2, spine(1), Head(3), Spine(5)
Keywords: Dark, Desire, Empathy, Connection, Perceptiveness, Presence, Yin
Experience: 100, 150, 200, 300, 400

Most spirits of darkness are quiescant things, wisps born in the night and dead by morning, comfortable in their irrelevance and nonexistence. Those that cling to existence under the rays of the morning sun are hungry things, stained by desires drawn from human and beast alike. The desire to be, and live, and take. In many ways spirits of darkness are a reflection of the fundamental drives of life, and as such there is much understanding to be gained from their perspective.

Passives:
+10 to Social Perception
+5 to Combat Perception
+5 to Initiative
+5 to Spiritual Armor

Seeking the Hearthfire: D
Duration: Long
Using this art, the user channels dark qi through their mundanes senses, enhancing their ability to understand the desires and bonds between those in their sight, and the ways in which they might insinuate themselves into those things. This sharpening of senses also allows the user to react more quickly to the hostility of foes, increasing their initiative and avoid.

Welcoming in Shadow: D
Duration: Short
The darkness spirit might seem a pitable thing, but it does not due to forget the danger and hunger they represent. Desire is a deadly thing, and has unmade many. Shrouding themselves in the raiment of the dark, the user tugs at the strings of an enemies desires, focusing their attention upon them. An enemy so affected will approach the user at their full speed, and may target no one else while under their this thrall. The approach effect can be resisted with a resolve of C or greater. While this technique is active, the user's armor of both types increases significantly, as they take on a wraiths phantasmal traits.
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Also, once we get Hanyi, she has an art like that, LMV
 
7ime1ock said:
Anyways, this might be a little off-topic, but what do you all think of researching a Siren-like Song Art? One that, in combat, would agro all enemies in range toward us and captivate them, preventing them from taking any actions for one turn(s).
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It sounds strikingly similar to Covetous Wraith, which forced a target to focus in on us and charge us with their full movement.

Ultimately, I don't particularly like it. Ling Qi doesn't want to be the focus of people's aggression, she wants to sit in the back, wear down the opponent, and support her team. However, forcing people to aggro someone else (like Zhengui for instance) could be something to look into. I honestly prefer a song that puts people to sleep or drags them off into a dreamscape.
 
7ime1ock said:
What about a song that temporarily makes our enemy(s) into our friends?
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Probably a little bit tricker, and there is going to be some push back from some members of the quest for having a mind-altering art.

That being said, we know that what is traditionally thought of as mind-control is not a thing in the setting. There are, however, ways around that. Sufficiently high charisma with appropriate arts can create the effect of mind-control, and there is the technique that our Moon tutor (Assassin dude) used to get information out of us. Whether that was an art, domain, or simply knowing what to do is up for debate.

Now, we know that manipulating and amplifying certain "emotions" or "thoughts" is possible. It's what Covetous Wraith does with... envy if I remember correctly. Doing something which flips the anger, hate, or disgust into it's opposite emotion and then amplifying that should be possible.

However, I'm also not entirely enthused about the idea. Twisting people's emotions like that probably will take some very dedicated time and energy to develop the arts and techniques to do it. Given the time constraints we are under, I feel that there will be simpler, less costly means of manipulating how our enemies act towards us. Zhengui might be getting some if his environment control really kicks in, creating and shifting obstacles which force an opponent to maneuver in certain ways would be a huge boon in controlling how they acted.
 
DeusExBritannia said:
S: 'The Moon-addled vixen advanced upon her defenseless prey with abandon-'
LQ: "No! Shut up! You're not allowed to talk anymore!"
S: 'Bu-'
LQ: "Story time is over! Forever!"
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S: "Censorship! Oppression!"
Varder said:
I thought about that, but it seems less likely. Something like that would be checked thoroughly, and considering that he was a member of Empire's secret police, government agents could probably use as intrusive techniques as they wanted. I don't believe there's a lot of ways to hide anything at that point.
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You cannot force ascension.
If he says he lost his way, you can accept it at face value and retain his services. Or he breaks through to White with how much he hates the system in mind.

Then Fun.
 
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