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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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I thought about that as well, but I also thought either way there shouldn't be that few Early/Appraisals(talking about how much they can cultivate). I was under the assumption that there would not usually be that many greens entering the Inner Sect from the start (either through Production or Tournament. That was one of the things that made our year so unusual. So seeing this made me confused. Decided to conclude that Foundations are actually more common in 750 and above.
 
TimEd said:
its the Tiers thats important. If the one you are challenging doesnt know you have X skill...trump card, then they cant defend against it or make preparations to negate or avoid said trump card.

And on trump cards, most any of the Arts or hidden jumps in cultivations here are pretty significant trump cards since they apply to a wider variety than just for battle, and that increase in cultivation if kept secret enough, could give someone time to properly solidify their position so they can jump tiers and then hold that fort till you are ready for another increase in cultivation.


Basically, the system might seemingly favor varied skill, but the challengers must trick the challenged into picking trapped choices or else get stuck being a one trick pony.


Imagine if you will, someone being challenged by rank 790. Unless you can stomp him, you would definately never choose a head on fight. But, what if the choice you pick is something disciple 790 happened to have a trup card on?

Thing to remember, is that the Elders choose the choices. Meaning they will only reasonably pick those where the challenger has either a chance to win, or enough skill they think they can use to win.
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PrimalShadow said:
Even with deep CP reserves, refusing challenges regularly is a sure wait to squander your wealth. Sure, they might be able to refuse a challenge or ten, but that means lots of lost CP. At best, they can earn back the lost CP by regularly doing missions, but at that point you've got people dumping serious amounts of time and effort merely to avoid a challenge.
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My primary point is that both of these claims are mostly irrelevant.

What happens if you lose a challenge? You slide one rank. There's very little point to ever refusing a challenge even when you know for 99% certain that you will lose. Since the system encourages accepting challenges to an absolutely absurd degree, there's little point in sandbagging defensively. The idea that you have a trump doesn't matter much except for people moving up in the ranks, in that it allows them that mobility in the first place. Hiding the trump may mean challenges that favor your trump are chosen more often... except that losing doesn't matter much, so why would they bother even knowing who you are nevermind what your skills are? They just pick somewhere they're strong, and hope it matches well, and if it doesn't it didn't matter because they only lose one rank!

If you are the challenger, your trump is an advantage that you might want to hide in moving UP the ranks, because it means the person ahead of you selects badly. But it's not a disadvantage for the challenged, because even if your trump beats them, they don't care that much. The matchup doesn't matter for the person being challenged. They just don't care.

In that case, if you are challenged, you don't use your trump. There is no point in using a trump to defeat a challenge. Hiding a trump for defensive purposes is totally pointless. If you only want to win a lot of challenges defensively, you could try a broad skill focus, since you always get to pick the subject, but again the reward for doing this is questionable. TimEd, you seem to imply I suggested that a challenger might want to be skill focused, but in fact I am only talking about someone who wants to be challenged.



The exception might be at the highest ranks, if there are strong differences between just a single rank, then hiding skills starts to matter.

I basically agree with you, PrimalShadow, that there's not much point in refusing challenges regularly, but we know that there are long-term sect jobs (basically full-time jobs) that pay out in absurd quantities of CP. These people are naturally advantaged in refusing challenges, ONLY IF there was incentive to do so mind you (by default there is not). So they are really the only people who can afford to refuse with any regularity as the economics are totally different for them.
 
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So with sandbagging there may be a lot of different factors. One key thing is almost everyone in the inner sect has a clan they are representing. I can easily imgine a better cultivator deciding to slow down because they are afraid what might happen if they shoot ahead of a prick cultivator whose clan is above them.

They might be stuck at a certain level only because someone else is a poor cultivator who is actually stuck. Then the poor person has to sandbag and wait for person b to advance or leave the sect. Once that happens they explode up the ranks because those consequences to their clan are gone.

Sandbagging might simply be a choice from the result of a complex situation with political and social factors we just can't see.
 
EternalObserver said:
I thought about that as well, but I also thought either way there shouldn't be that few Early/Appraisals(talking about how much they can cultivate). I was under the assumption that there would not usually be that many greens entering the Inner Sect from the start (either through Production or Tournament. That was one of the things that made our year so unusual. So seeing this made me confused. Decided to conclude that Foundations are actually more common in 750 and above.
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I think another weird thing about this year is how high all of us were seeded.

While the max rank for induction is 800, I'd guess usually only the two winners and their semifinalists are anywhere near that rank.

Instead, almost our whole round of 8 is hanging right up their.
 
[X] Liang He, Disciple 790

*Takes a moment to appreciate a name that (could) mean Cool River on a cultivator with Fire and no Water*
yrsillar said:
Thanks for making such a thoughtful post!

It is as you suspect more complex than simple physicality in this setting. Ones gender is something that exists on a spiritual level as well. Jiao could manifest a female body but he wouldn't be a woman, anymore than someone wearing a pair of fake boobs on a laugh is in rl. Xin could do the reverse, and the situation would be the same. The metaphysics of the setting are such that a male component and a female component is necessary for the creation of a child through a union of spirits. Lets take Meizhen's cousin Cui as an example. Her mother is a snake the size of a bullet train, and her father is a generations old knife. However, the spirit the knife manifested as male for a number of reasons, so despite the physical differences he was capable of producing offspring with a spirit who had a female identity.

Your assumptions regarding trans individuals are largely correct, a trans cultivator who advanced sufficiently on their path would find their body steadily changing until it matched their identified gender, this is because Male and Female are distinct concepts in this universe. I don't know enough gender theory to say if this is right or not, but it is an assumption I crafted the setting on. So even though physical gender can be mutable enough to be largely irrelevant at higher levels the sort of male female pair bonding at the root of most recognizable social structures remains the assumption. There are indeed ways to fiddle around the edges but the results are volatile and variable enough that they're not in the realm of mainstream acceptance.

Beings who don't have genders at all are generally not able to reproduce in the 'normal' way.

I didn't design things this way to make people feel bad though. I just felt that I could explore non-straight characters a little better in a setting where there is still a degree of adversity regarding their identities, and exploring the way a society fundamentally built on expressions of individual power handles keeping a cohesive society.
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Hmm, transgender shifting makes a lot of sense because in a cultivation setting "Male Spirit in Female Body" and vice versa are things you'd fix as you go up anyways, as your body becomes more like your spiritual ideal?

I'd also remark that in-genre, a fair number of cultivators could have discarded much of their purely sexual interests on the way up, especially if they are non-normative. After all, if you're in conflict between your inner identity and your presented identity...that reads like a textbook Bottleneck, you pretty much HAVE to choose to progress:
-It matters to my way of life and here is how I will align my inner self to social expectations.
-It matters to my way of life and here is how I can justify the discrepancy between my inner self and my outer self.
-It doesn't matter to my way of life and so I will discard romantic love on my path to ascension.
-It doesn't matter to my way of life and so I will just ignore it since I don't see myself getting any.

Meizhen feels like a Case 2 to me. She's passionate, but she keeps it all inside her inner depths. She'd do her duty by the clan, but she'd arrange a posting for said duties such that her private affairs remain private.
yrsillar said:
They don't have genders for the most part, though exceptions exist. Spirits like Sixiang are generally very transitory in their individual identities
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Hmm, so Sixiang probably would fix into a gender eventually?
Based on Ling Qi's concept of her presumably.
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
What happens if you lose a challenge? You slide one rank. There's very little point to ever refusing a challenge even when you know for 99% certain that you will lose.
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This was discussed before. Losing matches could have various impacts on your Way, though unless its an extended chain of getting the crap trashed out of you or you're deliberately throwing matches, its not really bad.
 
veekie said:
[X] Liang He, Disciple 790

*Takes a moment to appreciate a name that (could) mean Cool River on a cultivator with Fire and no Water*

Hmm, transgender shifting makes a lot of sense because in a cultivation setting "Male Spirit in Female Body" and vice versa are things you'd fix as you go up anyways, as your body becomes more like your spiritual ideal?

I'd also remark that in-genre, a fair number of cultivators could have discarded much of their purely sexual interests on the way up, especially if they are non-normative. After all, if you're in conflict between your inner identity and your presented identity...that reads like a textbook Bottleneck, you pretty much HAVE to choose to progress:
-It matters to my way of life and here is how I will align my inner self to social expectations.
-It matters to my way of life and here is how I can justify the discrepancy between my inner self and my outer self.
-It doesn't matter to my way of life and so I will discard romantic love on my path to ascension.
-It doesn't matter to my way of life and so I will just ignore it since I don't see myself getting any.

Meizhen feels like a Case 2 to me. She's passionate, but she keeps it all inside her inner depths. She'd do her duty by the clan, but she'd arrange a posting for said duties such that her private affairs remain private.

Hmm, so Sixiang probably would fix into a gender eventually?
Based on Ling Qi's concept of her presumably.

This was discussed before. Losing matches could have various impacts on your Way, though unless its an extended chain of getting the crap trashed out of you or you're deliberately throwing matches, its not really bad.
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This is a good point too! There are quite a few cultivators for whom things like 'sexuality' and 'romantic love' end up on the cutting room floor as it were. Societal expectations can have toxic and unpleasant consequences, you know?
 
In the inverse, Kang Zihao seems to indicate that some cultivators attempt to embody the Societal expectations that are thrust upon them. He seems to be trying to embody a societal ideal, a knight in shining armor if you would.

I should also vote

[X] Liang He, Disciple 790

FSS tech that reduces the effectiveness of fire arts in our vicinity should be helpful. Additionally, Sixiang should be able to help by dispelling buffs the opponent and their falcon have and HR is just a brutal tech, especially with our blade echoing the stanza to increase hit and penetration.
 
Thor's Twin said:
FSS tech that reduces the effectiveness of fire arts in our vicinity should be helpful. Additionally, Sixiang should be able to help by dispelling buffs the opponent and their falcon have and HR is just a brutal tech, especially with our blade echoing the stanza to increase hit and penetration.
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Well, FSS Tech that you are talking about? It isn't reducing the effectiveness of Fire Arts anymore, lost the ability somewhere between FSS4 and FSS6.
yrsillar said:
Echoes of Absolute Winter: B
Duration: Special
Damage: F
A technique used in tandem with Aria of Springs End, if activated at the same time, the Aria carries an echo of true winter, stilling the very air around the singer with its freezing chill until blood grows sluggish and flesh cracks. Attacks targeting the user, or which have an area of effect overlapping with Aria's have their penetration reduced by one rank as the cold devours the energy of the technique or attack. Similarly, Cold or Dark techniques used by the singer against those in range of Aria have their Hit or Penetration enhanced by one rank, as chosen by the user.
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And our Sword? It isn't giving us passive bonuses anymore only Penetration to itself and Echoes give us Penetration and Damage but not Hit.
yrsillar said:
[] Began to sing a more coherent song that echoed her own
Singing Mist Blade
Dexterity+Woodwind. Darkness. Spiritual. +15 to Penetration. Damage D. Health D

When a target struck by the singing mist blade is assailed by a damaging technique from its user, the swords song echoes, enhancing the damage and penetration of the technique.
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Aside from that i think we are cool. If we live enough to set up Killzone with Blackjack and... i mean with Ice and Mist, then mister 'Cool River' is as good as finished even if he is master of Sword-fu.:evil:

EternalObserver said:
Wonder if we're gonna vote for tactics in the upcoming duel just like how we did in the tournament
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mmm... 50/50? I don't think LQ really need our help here but maybe? Also, i think we will get mundane vote about number of Sect Points. How many of them you think we will need this time?
 
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I'm an update late here on this commentary, but I think we learned from that dream penalty going forward, because for our second two Insights...
yrsillar said:
Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end," she spoke the lesson of the Forgotten Vale Melody first, feeling the words resonate with her spirit. It was the beginning of an ethos for action, the acknowledgement of the purpose toward which power was to be bent..
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yrsillar said:
"There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings," it sounded trite said aloud, but the meaning rang clear to Ling Qi. To her, it was the absolute conviction that failures and losses could not and would not end her path.
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...we picked adversity armor.

yrsillar said:
the absolute conviction that failures and losses could not and would not end her path.
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We might pull a Jiao and shoot our Way in the foot one day, but it won't be because of some defeat or setback.
 
As much as I want Ling Qi to show off and possibly insta-kill him, It'd be probably be a good idea to keep CtE a secret for now and save it for later. I have a feeling though he might have something like an art to compensate for lack of armor. Too bad we have Sixiang for that. :evil:
 
EternalObserver said:
As much as I want Ling Qi to show off and possibly insta-kill him, It'd be probably be a good idea to keep CtE a secret for now and save it for later. I have a feeling though he might have something like an art to compensate for lack of armor. Too bad we have Sixiang for that. :evil:
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By the time we've ramped enough to hit him with it, the fights probably over.

CTE's "Ling Qi's hands are almost as cold as my girlfriend's feet at night" is really only for Low Avoid High Armor enemies until/unless we work on our bad touch skills.

Man, if only our friends and boss were pressuring us to work on traditional melee techniques.
 
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OneArmedYeti said:
By the time we've ramped enough to hit him with it, the fights probably over.

CTE's "Ling Qi's hands are almost as cold as my girlfriend's feet at night" is really only for Low Avoid High Armor enemies until/unless we work on our bad touch skills.

Man, if only our friends and boss were pressuring us to work on traditional melee techniques.
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It'd probably combo well with PLR's grapple, which is why along with Joyous Toast, it's a good idea to invest in that along with our Dance skill. I also have another idea that may possibly work well with the combo but the thread seems to be leaning on getting ENM so I'll hold off on that for the moment.
 
Thor's Twin said:
In the inverse, Kang Zihao seems to indicate that some cultivators attempt to embody the Societal expectations that are thrust upon them. He seems to be trying to embody a societal ideal, a knight in shining armor if you would.
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Better example is Renxiang, who's sort of becoming a humanoid avatar of Good Government. One of the hazards of starting too young is you don't know what you're giving up I suppose?

Kang, we don't have a lot of info on, but based on his actions, I'm not sure how much it binds into his Way, since he LOOKS honorable, but ACTS despicable. Mind you, this is a skewed view, as we're enemies and Ling Qi isn't the most objective person, but we do see that he treats his own subordinates poorly once hes used them up.
 
FakePriest said:
P.S.:Also. It wasn't my goal, but i have to admit that our new targets surprisingly stronger than before, not so much from their stats, but from the fact that both of them full Cultivation Rank higher and both have Spirit Beasts and they are just 10-22 ranks apart from targets of our previous challenge. Interesting, though i don't have much answer as to why except that they are in a more potent Tier with higher income and higher quality vent. Maybe someone else in thread will have better understanding than me...
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The big jump up in resources for this ranking tier means that everyone is interested in those ranks, not just us.
 
Ayashi said:
The big jump up in resources for this ranking tier means that everyone is interested in those ranks, not just us.
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But still you would expect cultivation level Green1/Bronze2 or inverse. But Disciple 804 has 1/1, whereas Disciple 794 meager 10 ranks higher already 2/2. It seems somewhat unnatural. And don't forget spiritual beasts. Hm, maybe we just wasn't perceptive enough to detect them before? Than i am happy that our first challenge was Music Battle.
 
FakePriest said:
But still you would expect cultivation level Green1/Bronze2 or inverse. But Disciple 804 has 1/1, whereas Disciple 794 meager 10 ranks higher already 2/2. It seems somewhat unnatural. And don't forget spiritual beasts. Hm, maybe we just wasn't perceptive enough to detect them before? Than i am happy that our first challenge was Music Battle.
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There's a distinct chance that people who have the talent necessary to breakthrough tend to have the ability to make it into the ranks above 800, as they will have been able to better use cultivation resources before challenging and upon getting into the ranks above 800 rapidly grow into their new baseline of wealth. Just like how once Ling Qi discovered the mathematical magic of "All the Drugs" we rapidly grew to match what our wealth could purchase.
 
Pathos said:
There's a distinct chance that people who have the talent necessary to breakthrough tend to have the ability to make it into the ranks above 800, as they will have been able to better use cultivation resources before challenging and upon getting into the ranks above 800 rapidly grow into their new baseline of wealth. Just like how once Ling Qi discovered the mathematical magic of "All the Drugs" we rapidly grew to match what our wealth could purchase.
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Yeah, i miss super drugs, Melodic Elixir is good and all but it don't give us free qi rerolls. Also i am interested in difference between Lesser and Standard Argent Vents, how much it's better do you think?
 
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