So sorry about the double post but I felt like HDW first tech has some really interesting implication.
Spring Breeze Canto: D
Duration: Long
This ephemeral melody rings out with the vital curiosity of youth, The melody carries the musician's perception among her listeners, allowing her to clearly hear and see any one of them, regardless of distractions, so long as the songs echoes last
So first things first it this art does not mention that those that we can see and hear have to be an ally. Now if this is true, it may not be as I wouldn't expect yrs to write all limitations into a short description like this, that would mean we win at scouting. It also doesn't mention a distance just as long as the song echo remains. So we teleport in play the piece and then teleport out. Then we could track someone for quite a long time. Would be very useful for sect jobs or tasks about tracking barbs. Looking forward to the other techs as this art may be useful for the parties we host and our job in the sect. Really looking forward for this art.
Otherwise, I think any cultivator of sufficient power can disrupt our songs if we don't keep playing it. Maybe merely flashing someone's full domain's power can do it (Elder Jiao's is a pool of darkness with eyes, technically it shouldn't mess with sounds, but who knows how it works). Even if it doesn't work that way, a sufficiently strong cultivator can just smash a boulder or something, and while the song is eclipsed, bolt somewhere where there are no echoes.
Overall, I don't agree that this should be used as a scout tech, because a scout should try to stay hidden from their targets, but this thing relies on a loud sound to work at all. Social perception though? Or Meizhen's "here I come, you can't stop me"? Well, it'll work great in these ways.
Otherwise, I think any cultivator of sufficient power can disrupt our songs if we don't keep playing it. Maybe merely flashing someone's full domain's power can do it (Elder Jiao's is a pull of darkness with eyes, technically it shouldn't mess with sounds, but who knows how it works). Even if it doesn't work that way, a sufficiently strong cultivator can just smash a boulder or something, and while the song is eclipsed, bolt somewhere where there are no echoes.
Overall, I don't agree that this should be used as a scout tech, because a scout should try to stay hidden from their targets, but this thing relies on a loud sound to work at all. Social perception though? Or Meizhen's "here I come, you can't stop me"? Well, it'll work great in these ways.
hmm.. perhaps however since we are working with a team of scouts we can also use this song to see what is happening where our scouts are. This would allow near instant information transfer to happen. Speed is king when dealing with an evolving dangerous situation and if our songs allows us to see what is happening that much faster it means we can engage in force much faster than any barbs would expect.
If a fight does happen between scouting forces and we use this song we could track down fleeing barbs that much easier too which would help with information control.
So, we are likely going to get SES4 and HDW4 this incoming update in a few hours. If @yrsillar follows the current pattern, we are also going to be able to see what SES5 and HDW5 gives, letting us know if we want to master then while in foundation.
For the record, here is what SES1 and HDW1 gives:
Now, the questions I want to pose to the thread (because I love theorycrafting) are what your theories about both the level of power we can expect for them, the kind of power we can expect from them, and how effective those would be for our build.
First, it appears SES should either be slightly stonger than HDW (needs more successes), as well as have a stronger focus on what it gives (single-type meridians, less types of passives). If I was to compare powerwise between our arts while in appraisal, I would say FSS > SCS/FVM > TRF > HDW/SES (not counting PLR/AE, though I think those should probably be around FSS-tier). The reason I put FSS above SCS/FVM is not only how core FSS is to Zeqing compared to SCS/FVM to their likely creator, but also because SCS/FVM still seems to have 'space' left in appraisal, and I wouldn't be surprised if SCS+ begins in appraisal, for example, while I suspect FSS+ begins in foundation.
My personal guess is that HDW4/SES4 would basically be the equivalent of a TRF6 that lack TRU, with their own capstone appearing in foundation.
SES-wise, I expect the levels to both increase the resist and resilience of the first two techs, but that the third tech to be about the 'growing tall in adversity' theme within it's art description. Not sure how that would translate, but maybe some kind of "If we are hurt or debuff by spiritual arts, we actually get bonus to our own spiritual art and resist".
HDW-wise, I expect the levels to both make our 'sight of people who hear our music' better, likely giving us their derived stats and numbers of meridians opened, as well as Summer's Day rising having a dispel that's boosted by our Music and Connection. As for its third tech, I am thinking something offensive, buoying our allies' hit and penetration, the greater the effect the better our music and connections are (to fit the s.hit passive).
The art (SES) seems to mix the sapling and the spiritual techs. Therefore for me the last tech is gonna be something that grow some existing spiritual debuff.
So something that make a tech hard to dispell and the effect stronger (along the line of FVM traveller end, but not limited to that melody and usable on a single tech).
HDW is harder to make suppositions about but the plucking the string of connection make me think of a dispell ability based upon how well you know your ennemies. That seems a bit reaching to me too tbh.
hmm.. perhaps however since we are working with a team of scouts we can also use this song to see what is happening where our scouts are. This would allow near instant information transfer to happen. Speed is king when dealing with an evolving dangerous situation and if our songs allows us to see what is happening that much faster it means we can engage in force much faster than any barbs would expect.
If a fight does happen between scouting forces and we use this song we could track down fleeing barbs that much easier too which would help with information control.
It seems like a generic speed vs stealth argument, so everyone have their own opinion. I tend towards more safe stealthy approach, not in the least because the value of scouting your enemy is not aware of can't be denied. But there are cases where speed is the key, definitely.
Otherwise, I think any cultivator of sufficient power can disrupt our songs if we don't keep playing it. Maybe merely flashing someone's full domain's power can do it (Elder Jiao's is a pool of darkness with eyes, technically it shouldn't mess with sounds, but who knows how it works). Even if it doesn't work that way, a sufficiently strong cultivator can just smash a boulder or something, and while the song is eclipsed, bolt somewhere where there are no echoes.
Overall, I don't agree that this should be used as a scout tech, because a scout should try to stay hidden from their targets, but this thing relies on a loud sound to work at all. Social perception though? Or Meizhen's "here I come, you can't stop me"? Well, it'll work great in these ways.
I'd overall agree about the scout portion, but here are a few details.
Now, obviously someone that overwhelm us is going to be able to overwhelm us- I don't think this is an indictment as to the specific type of scout tech, except insofar as this one is not stealthy so they'd know more easily to overwhelm us (but stealth against someone much stronger than you is always very difficult). However, our song doesn't get eclipsed by sound. Our song is actually not using the sound medium anymore, and directly touch one's spirit. This is why HDW fits us very well, as we can easily influence people that are underground or underwater or in places where sound doesn't exist.
However, for scout I'd say that CDE is much superior, as it's about analyzing objects/formations, and it doesn't even need us to be there in person (if the wisps can finally go farther than 40m away from us...).
Where I'd say HDW is better is combat formations and combat awareness of where allies and enemies are. HDW is really powerful anti-stealth, and it's a also really powerful "a group is coming from the north while we are engaged to those guys from the west". Where CDE should shine at "I want to know exactly what's going on 2km away in those tents", I expect HDW to shine at "I can see everything that's going on in a radius of 500m around me".
I know I've said this before, but I can't wait to see Ling Qi as a tutor. Not just her teaching methods, but also Xiao Fen seeing all the Outer Sect disciples still suffering from PLQD reacting to Ling Qi's presence, and the viper girl realizing that her mistress's best friend, and her tutor for the foreseeable future, is actually some sort of nightmare terror-beast of abyssal mists and cheery tunes.
An amusing thought came to me, we know that the losers of the tournament create "angst spirits" over the next year and people have joked about this super abnormal year's crop of disciples creating an "angst titan" but imagine how bad it would be if Ling Qi actually juuuuust missed getting into the Inner Sect and everyone she traumatised in the tournament (and all the new disciples after people tell them) realised that they'd have to fight Ling Qi AGAIN next year :3
Pretty sure they'd need a goddamn Elder at least to handle the sheer concentrated Angst and Malice spirit that would be created then
An amusing thought came to me, we know that the losers of the tournament create "angst spirits" over the next year and people have joked about this super abnormal year's crop of disciples creating an "angst titan" but imagine how bad it would be if Ling Qi actually juuuuust missed getting into the Inner Sect and everyone she traumatised in the tournament (and all the new disciples after people tell them) realised that they'd have to fight Ling Qi AGAIN next year :3
Pretty sure they'd need a goddamn Elder at least to handle the sheer concentrated Angst and Malice spirit that would be created then
It'd possibly be mollified by the fact that Ling Qi DID lose and they'd have that victory to analyze and poor over out to answer that suite of arts and take her down, or alternatively the fact that she should be graduated to the Inner Sect next year for sure.
Wait it out, or prep a Counter, but one would have options.
An amusing thought came to me, we know that the losers of the tournament create "angst spirits" over the next year and people have joked about this super abnormal year's crop of disciples creating an "angst titan" but imagine how bad it would be if Ling Qi actually juuuuust missed getting into the Inner Sect and everyone she traumatised in the tournament (and all the new disciples after people tell them) realised that they'd have to fight Ling Qi AGAIN next year :3
Pretty sure they'd need a goddamn Elder at least to handle the sheer concentrated Angst and Malice spirit that would be created then
If Ling Qi had missed her Inner Sect entry, the Angst Titan would have been swole as fuck with Ling Qi, Bai Meizhen,Cai Rexiang, Gu Xiulan and Gan Guangli angst and despair.
It'd possibly be mollified by the fact that Ling Qi DID lose and they'd have that victory to analyze and poor over out to answer that suite of arts and take her down, or alternatively the fact that she should be graduated to the Inner Sect next year for sure.
Wait it out, or prep a Counter, but one would have options.
I'm imagining a technicality or "Ling Qi gets Liling first RO8 match instead and is immediately one shot" so that she doesn't get to show off her other techs.
Also ya know Ling Qi's ridiculous luck (and a Green Zhengui) would probably result in her finding even crazier good fortune which would mean she's even stronger by the tournament.
Could simple words express the insights she had found in her arts, Ling Qi wondered. Mastering music as she was, it was becoming ever more clear how limited and prone to distortion language could be.However, meeting Zeqing's featureless eyes, she knew that the ice spirit would understand the meaning beneath her words.
"Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end," she spoke the lesson of the Forgotten Vale Melody first, feeling the words resonate with her spirit. It was the beginning of an ethos for action, the acknowledgement of the purpose toward which power was to be bent..
"I see," Zeqing replied without emotion. "A worthy lesson, but not the only one."
Ling Qi just nodded fractionally, before silently closing her eyes, she had to wonder what Zeqing would think of her other insight. "There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings," it sounded trite said aloud, but the meaning rang clear to Ling Qi. To her, it was the absolute conviction that failures and losses could not and would not end her path.
When she opened her eyes though, she beheld her tutors face, looking even more like a blank and lifeless mask than usual. The spirit stared at her with empty white eyes, and in that moment Ling Qi, who stood atop a mountain peak above the clouds ankle deep in snow, felt for the first time a chill.
"Acceptable," her mentor said, Zeqing did not even pretend that the words came from her lips, which remained as still and unmoving as a corpse. "You should be on your way then. These days have tired me."
Before Ling Qi could respond to those terse words, Zeqing dissolved into a flurry of ice and snow, and a howling wind carried her presence away, leaving Ling Qi alone with her muse and Hanyi.
"...And you wonder why I'm on edge up here," Sixiang whispered in her thoughts.
Ling Qi didn't respond, instead turning her eyes to Hanyi who stood there with her head down. Could she…?
"I'm making Momma sick," Hanyi said quietly. "Everytime I get bigger, or learn a new song, Momma gets sicker. You're doing it too."
Ling Qi grimaced, looking away from the ice child. "I know… but she doesn't want to stop teaching us either."
"...I liked how things were. I could always play and Momma would always wait for me. It was like that forever, you know?" Hanyi said instead of replying, looking up at Ling Qi with sad eyes. "...I liked learning Mommas songs more though."
"There's nothing wrong with that," Ling Qi replied. "Hanyi…" she wanted to say that things would get better, but she couldn't bring herself to lie. She didn't know what was going to happen.
Hanyi scuffed her bare foot in the snow, looking back down. "You should go Big Sister. Momma will get better soon if we go."
She could feel Sixiang's own discomfort pressing against her thoughts and magnifying her own. "Hanyi, just… don't do anything hasty okay? Big Sister will figure something out," she said with confidence she didn't feel. "Besides, Zhengui will be awake soon, you know? He'd be sad if you weren't around to tease him."
Hanyi puffed out her cheeks. "I don't care about that big dumb sled, disappearing for so long just to take a nap," she muttered under her breath, looking away. She didn't refute Ling Qi though.
Hesitating for a moment, Ling Qi reached out and placed a hand on the little spirits head, ruffling her hair in way she had seen Zeqing do once or twice. "I'll see you soon Hanyi."
Somehow, flying away from the mountain peak Ling Qi felt guilty for not doing more than stopping by to say hello to her own Mother recently.
...She had a cultivation schedule to keep though, and the medicinal energies of the pills she had taken wouldn't sing in her veins forever, still, perhaps she should make some time soon. For now though, she could only cultivate. In the days that followed her return to her little stone home on the mountain, Ling Qi focused her energies on learning two new arts, procured from the Sects archive. Both of them were music, and both of them were outside her usual fare.
Harmony of the Dancing Wind was a bright song with a strong spring and summer theme, expressing the complex feelings of connection in a small community. After her recent lessons, Ling Qi felt that her rendition of the song was colored somewhat. The image that formed in her mind's eye was of people pulling together, surviving a harsh winter, and celebrating the warm winds that followed.
The other art, Storm Enduring Seedling, was rather different. The arrangement used alternating verses, one harsh and dissonant, and the other light and hopeful, bridged by more somber measures to grant them continuity. It was a song of enduring adversity in the face of impossible odds, and the courage to cling to life and live regardless of the trial.
They were both, Ling Qi felt rather simple arts, in comparison to what she had learned thus far, and she found herself progressing rapidly with them, stymied from full mastery only by the current limitations of her spirit.
However, as Ling Qi meditated and played in solitude, in her home and at various cultivation sites, that was not the only progress she made. It came back to the pills she had purchased with her hard earned Sect Points. The Melodic Elixir was responsible for the ease with which she had progressed her musical arts, it's humming energy opening her mind and soul in ways that she had not thought possible, but the other, the Unwavering Discipline pill, took the elemental energies she was cultivating, and drew threads of them into her body. Notes of music flowed through her veins, ital wood qi fortified her flesh and muscles, and wind carried away impurity like smoke. As a result, Ling Qi found her physical cultivation soaring, breaching the line between early and appraisal bronze by the end of her meditations.
All the while, she could feel her domain changing as well, it had been an ephemeral thing, but it was gradually gaining substance. The faint music that followed her when emotions ran high was growing less phantasmal, and she sometimes tracked glittering frost across the grass in moments of inattention.
Domain Effect: Allies in a scene with whom Ling Qi has at least four ranks of positive relation receive a one rank bonus to Spiritual Avoid, Armor and Combat Perception(Boosted Rank cannot exceed Ling Qi's), So long as at least one such ally is in the scene with Ling Qi she receives a half rank bonus to resisting or avoiding effects which would induce immobility or helplessness. In addition, when within a space Ling Qi considers to be 'hers' she receives a half rank bonus to Social Perception.
Insights
-Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
-There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
-Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty
As her domain grew in strength so too did Ling Qi find her flying sword to begin functioning differently, it…
[] Began to sing a more coherent song that echoed her own
Singing Mist Blade
Dexterity+Woodwind. Darkness. Spiritual. +15 to Penetration. Damage D. Health D
When a target struck by the singing mist blade is assailed by a damaging technique from its user, the swords song echoes, enhancing the damage and penetration of the technique.
[] It's cry grew ever more eerie
Singing Mist Blade
Dexterity+Woodwind. Darkness. Spiritual. +15 to Penetration. Damage D. Health D
The singing Mist blade's song grates on an enemies spirit, wearing them down as it circles and swipes at their defenses. With each passing moment, the blade wears away at an enemies spiritual armor and drains away threads of qi
Presence* - (3 2 3) + 3 = 11
E (7/30) --> E (18/30)
Manipulation* - (4 5 4) + 3 = 16
C (42/50) --> B (8/60) Rank up!
Composure* - (1 2) + 2 = 5
E (15/30) --> E (20/30)
War - (1 5 2) = 8
War: G (0/5) --> War: F (3/10) Rank up!
Perceptiveness** - (6 5 5) + 6 = 22
C (2/25) --> C (24/25)
Resilience* - (2 5 1) + 3 = 11
C (8/25) --> C (19/25)
Empathy* - (5 4 2) + 3 = 14
D (7/20) --> C (1/25) Rank up!
Speech - (3 4 1) = 8
E (12/15) --> D (5/20) Rank up!
Fade - (1 3) = 4
D (4/20) --> D (8/20)
Fortitude - (5)
D (1/20) --> D (6/20)
Woodwind* - (5 1 1) + 3 = 10
A (14/40) --> A (24/40)
A song written by a musician of the capital, chronicling his observance of a seedling growing from a storm wracked cliff. Its struggling roots clung to weak soil, and though it teetered many times, it never fell, growing tall and strong until its roots could burrow into the very mountain rock itself.
Potency: Green 2
Potency Growth: Green 3(5)
Max Level: 5
Needed Meridians: Spine(5)
Current Meridians: Spine(Woodx2, Musicx2)
Keywords: Composure, Music, Perseverance, Resist, Resilience, Resolve, Wood, Yang
Experience: 500
Passives:
+15 to Resist
+10 to Spiritual Armor
+10 to Composure
+10 Health
Intractable Roots: D
Duration: Short
A short piece full of stubborn obstinance, this technique significantly bolsters the users Resist against dispels. Even if a dispel succeeds, unless it exceeds the users resist by at least a full rank, the technique(s) dispelled persists until the users next action.
Heaven Scarred Trunk: C
Duration: Long
Extending the short piece into a full stanza, the musician refuses to be moved. The user gains G rank Damage Reduction against purely Spiritual Arts, and greatly reduces the effects of any spiritual debuffs targeting them for the duration.
Bark Worn Rough: C
Duration: Immediate
Damage: D
While Heaven Scarred Trunk is active, the user may activate this technique whenever targeted by a spiritual attack or dispel. Sharpening their own spirit into rough edges, the user damages the spirit of the enemy who targeted her.
Potency: Green 2
Potency Growth: Green 3(5)
Max Level 5
Needed Meridians: Head(5)
Current Meridians: Head(Windx2), Heart (Musicx2)
Keywords: Connections, Empathy, Presence, Perceptiveness, Manipulation, Music, Wind, Yang
Experience: 400
There lies a beauty in patterns, of spirits and men alike. This melody exults in the complex dance of winds which brings us weather and the seasons, and in doing, teaches the musician to see and pluck at the lesser patterns and connections in the world around. The harmony reveals the web which connects all things, if the players eyes are but sharp enough to see.
Passives
+10 to Social Perception
+10 to Combat Perception
+10 to Spiritual Hit
+10 to Spiritual Avoid
Spring Breeze Canto: D
Duration: Persistent
This ephemeral melody rings out with the vital curiosity of youth, The melody carries the musician's perception among her listeners, allowing her to clearly hear and see any one of them, regardless of distractions, so long as the songs echoes last In addition so long as the echoes remain the musician receives a small bonus to spiritual and combat perception as well as spiritual Hit.
Summer's Day Rising: D
Duration: Long
This piece, embodying optimism and hope, speaks to the musician's bond with her listeners. Even the tenuous bond of casual acquaintance thrums with new vitality, bolstering allies significantly against spiritual attacks and deceptions. Those of stronger bond are bolstered still further, buoyed by their connection with the musician.
Industrious Labors of Fall: C
Duration: Short
The third piece, which speaks of the labors made in preparation for the long winter, steadies the musicians audience and fills them with determination for the trials ahead. Bolsters the armor, health and Resist of listeners, with greater effects on targets of higher bond.
AN: Alrighty, crunch time is done... though front page updates remain. I admit, I'm probably gonna need help getting the derived attributes set up right after all these changes, so please give me some time.
[] Began to sing a more coherent song that echoed her own
Singing Mist Blade
Dexterity+Woodwind. Darkness. Spiritual. +15 to Penetration. Damage D. Health D
When a target struck by the singing mist blade is assailed by a damaging technique from its user, the swords song echoes, enhancing the damage and penetration of the technique.
[] It's cry grew ever more eerie
Singing Mist Blade
Dexterity+Woodwind. Darkness. Spiritual. +15 to Penetration. Damage D. Health D
The singing Mist blade's song grates on an enemies spirit, wearing them down as it circles and swipes at their defenses. With each passing moment, the blade wears away at an enemies spiritual armor and drains away threads of qi
Industrious Labors of Fall: C
Duration: Short
The third piece, which speaks of the labors made in preparation for the long winter ahead, steadies the musicians audience and fills them with determination for the trials ahead. Bolsters the armor, health and Resist of listeners, with greater effects on targets of higher bond.
Zhengui... with this art... will be incredible. A four rank bond with us, and it boosts his armor, health, and resist? Man, this is going to really feed into his tankiness. Meizhen as well. Man, this technique just seems super good for our more tank oriented friends.
@yrsillar: We'll work (well, mostly @Erebeal but I'll help) on Derived attributes change. It also seems you forgot the various bonuses to the dice of the stat/skills above (1s are impossible, so I am pretty sure you did). We also got 1 domain slot from domain ranking up, when in last thread we were told it was 3 slots per rank, and in this thread we were told it was 2 slots per rank.
Apart from that, a question: It seems HDW cannot be equipped because it means we can no longer detect derived attributes of people with it. Is this correct?
Ok, so, training SES/HDW to 4 was fairly useful. We have now confirmation that archive arts truly can't be useful for anything but plugging holes, as their power differences between archive and other arts are such that 3 levels (and 1 potency level) is less than what we'd expect from 1 non-potency level of non-archive arts. It will be useful if we have an important hole in our build, but we can't expect to actually replace TRF/SCS/FVM with those, and we need to depend on lucky finds, Cai or Zeqing.
OTOH, this also tells us the vast majority of disciples are going to be really weak.
...? I'm avoiding lengthy wall of text tech descriptions since I'm trying to move away from that but I don't feel like the techs are that weak, or at least theyre not intended to be.
and you already have aura reading theres no point in giving it to you twice
Edit: Okay I was thinking that was added permanently already, consider that so
