Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
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We know of two that served in the sect military as officers. Lanlan sis and muscled moon dude.
Neither of those follow even from afar the argent way. Despite having learned argent pulse as commanders. It feels like baseless assumption to think it is a step on the argent way when literally all exemples we have show the opposite.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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What brought this on?
As to when we create arts, we know that by Cyan you have to but we do not know when we start being able to. It might not be in Green at all. Art modification however does show up in Green, around Foundation(Green 3). For now we have optimization.
Have we confirmed that they know Pulse?
What that shows is that they had other Way's to commit to, not that it is not a step. Like, Argent Mirror mastery was a step, and slotting it was definitely a step. But these are small steps. I am saying that Pulse is where I want to stop stepping.
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
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Someone earlier was talking about how a lot of our arts will stop around Green 2 or 3, and I was trying to remember when it was mentioned that we would need to make our own.
Would optimization help keep those arts effective for longer?
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We need new arts or successors for our current ones that someone else made
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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Green 3 is when we are first about to start modifying arts for ourselves. Or making new arts out of combining arts if we feel ambitious. However many Scions will not bother and just keep using arts given to them. It is only when you get to the 4rd realm that stops being a reasonable option.
BungieONI
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Not the Optimization we know which is just "streamlining spiritual organs/equipment" in essence.
Some of the facets in play here are that when we start mastering arts and capping them out in Green 2 and 3, we start losing options to raise our Domain Rank, and to train our Attributes like Presence and Skills like Woodwind. And that hanging around with arts that ended in Green 2 and 3 when we're in Green 4 or 5 is impractical bad business.
Where does the combining come from? Supposition on your part?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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People were talking about it before alot. They might have been mistaken, but I assumed that something had been said on discord.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
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So, are we just banking on Moon quests for the majority of our arts?
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There's an Inner Sect Archive we need to visit; we also have hope for an art or two from Zeqing.
BungieONI
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Thanks for answering. I never saw anything like that before.
We might be able to combine arts, but that's more than likely entirely player supposition based on application of narrative logic.
To be honest, we are in a precarious position with our art choices. So, yeah in a way we are.
We're visiting the Archive right now so that we have some kind of other source of knowledge and also context so we know better what we're doing. We also have a very good chance of getting another art from Zeqing. We have the Moon Map, so we're not completely stuck just waiting. And EPC should spit out more moon quests as it gets closer to finishing and we have to pick our third Phase.
Overall though, no, it's not a good position right now when it comes to sourcing our arts. The Archive is our first thrust at making it better.
E: Back in the first thread it was theorized that once we get to Foundation that we might be able to modify our arts by lengthening them and tide ourselves over while we search. This is still probably possible.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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Also we are good at tripping over treasure and we have plenty of time to trip.
We have been told that they were commanders in the sect army and that the sect army commanders had argent pulse. I guess it's technically possible they never learned it, but it seems incredibly unlikely.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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So are we now going for 4th realm by 17?
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I think we should also look into specific formations again, perhaps another side project with Li Suyin... While it was said that the more powerful formations are not easily obtainable, we do have a track record of talking powerful/knowledgeable entities into giving us stuff - I mean, it worked fine for arts so far. That might apply to formations, too, right? because I feel that while truly branching out into it would not work too well with our overall style, I am pretty sure there would be specific formations that would be a powerful trick to have up our sleeve.
BungieONI
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It might. We don't know what it has to offer, and that's something a lot of people thought we needed to fix.
I think it is low chance myself, but it likely has things that can be considered(and that's a really important word), for coming after TRF. If we get desperate though, it can serve as an answer.
Given they have their own ways, with Yanmei being a noble and the... uh was it the buff assassin dude with the face mask? Anyway Yanmei should very well have a commander art more suited to her from the Gu family library, given she's one of the current family prodigies.
The other dude if I'm remembering right might know something moon related, and he was more stealth oriented. Unless you are talking about Archer Dude Po, and he also came from a family so the same thing as with Yanmei might apply depending on the status of that family.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Not on level one, unless they're garbo.
Inner Sect level 1 is basically slightly better than Outer Sect level 3--roughly around Viscount level stuff. It's not bad, but it's mostly to fill holes rather than be big huge game changers that we want to make core. The only things we have that are worthy of core (AKA Upper Count/Ducal level) are SCS, TRF, FVM, and PLR. AE and FSS seem to be lower Count level--good, but potentially dumpable if we don't like the lessons they have. Argent package is upper Count but also has a strong and vocal bloc that will argue until their face is blue because they just fucking hate the Argent stuff, so I don't see us slotting any more of them--even if they have good lessons.
But in terms of potency, they're upper Count, yeah.
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Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
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Associated with the Bloody Moon, and one of only 3 (?) people in the entire sect (?) to cultivate EPC. Jiao and LQ are the others.
BungieONI
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Is this directed at me? I'd have to see the lessons for Current or Storm, and based on thematics wouldn't be surprised if they don't have applicable lessons. But if they did I would take them.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Nah, it's directed at the block in general, you're just the one bringing the argument up again at the moment, no offense intended.
The way I see it, I agree that they're not core arts outside of Mirror (Which at least is worthy of keeping as a sideboard until we find something better), and I'm not interested in going any further unless we find a successor or something accidentally that's actually good for our build, but I also want to see if they've got good lessons buried behind them--because in terms of Potency, the Argent stuff is better than most of what we have access to.
Our long term priority is building our Domain. Any Count level Art that falls in our hands is something we should see if it's useful by definition. Since they're not so easy to get that we can be stingy.
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BungieONI
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None taken.
Anyway, since we are kinda on the topic of commander arts, and I've mentioned mine as a "obfuscating Wood Yin support", what do you and others want in a commander art? Seems like a good time to take a sample of thread opinion.
What mastery bonuses? Mastery bonuses aren't a thing as far as we know. I'd like them to be, but they aren't. If they were then FSA and FZ should have given us stuff.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ling Qi is not a battlefield commander in the traditional sense, she's a Bard, so that means she should be handing out buffs left and right while making the lives of her foes miserable. It means she should be changing the battlefield on a wide scale just by being there, while being enough of a gadfly that the enemy facepunchers are chasing shadows instead of countering our own facepunchers. So it's a balance between building threat--making sure we're strong enough to survive that threat--and then making sure we can get away once the enemy gets sick of our shit.
That's why Pulse seems appealing to me. It's not a "Run in and punch dudes" buff, it's a "Everyone on my side is better and punchier", which both adds to the "Build Threat and make our side punchier" sides. And Pulse apparently also buffs vitality or defense based on how it was described, so it supports TRF's focus on maximum vitality as well, which also fills the survival niche.
AC and AS are soldier arts, which explains why they're about getting in the other guy's grill. AM is the soldier defense art that protects against shamans. AP is what the Commander is throwing out to make the guys using AC/AS/AM hit like freight trains while surviving counterblows. Pretty much exactly what we want to maximize our aura effects and make the other guy feel they have to chase shadows instead of stop our facepunchers from bullying their squishies.
And yeah, if it turns out to have a useful lesson? That's one more High Count level thing in our Domain. But even if it doesn't, it's useful to optimize Ling Qi's role in a group fight.
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BungieONI
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Hmm. I can't honestly remember. I think it had to do with how the passives changed as we... yes! What I'm talking about is how our passives for arts improved as we leveled them, and some pieces became permanent.
I definitely agree with the first and third points(though I can quibble about exact AM placement, it isn't worth it). Not so much with the second.
Based on the notion that it comes from AM, AC and AS, it must build on their central philosophy because it is part of the same general fighting thought process. We both know what this is, so I won't go into it, too deeply at least
. But the issue there is that that philosophy implies how Pulse gets its stuff done. A person with all the Argent arts and Pulse has a problem solving process of "Identify problem -> Buff the shit out of my pals -> run with pals to punch the problem". That's the paradigm for which Pulse was forged in. You can say, "But wait! Most cultivators probably have something else, like X." and that is probably true. The problem about talking about that is that the pool for X is so huge that you can't meaningfully discuss it except scenario by scenario. And there are hundreds. And because this is Xianxia, things tend to synergize best when used in their paradigm, unless you can brutalize them into another paradigm.The entire melee range ideation behind the Argent philosophy of fighting doesn't fit with my image of Bard Ling Qi, who has a good chunk of her survivability coming from Zones of Doom which discourage melee encounters and who was smart enough to get tough enough to survive for when the melee inevitably finds her. If the ideas behind Pulse didn't encourage being with your melee buddies and the general soldiers milieu I would be more receptive to it.
E: The interaction with aura effects is a bit more complicated, and I'm not comfortable discussing it in an edit.
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