- Location
- Finland
And while it might not be perfect for the Cai clan in general, or CRX in specific, Cai Shenhua would be fully in our corner.
Ling Qi: "My request will be controversial, but i swear..."
Cai Shenhua: "You got me at controversial."
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ling Qi: "My request will be controversial, but i swear..."
Cai Shenhua: "You got me at controversial."
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
True, but then we should have just let then dissipate and be reborn. We pushed hard for them to be with us, and to deny their nature and experience a lot of pain for them to be with us.
I didn't think people are really considering how much we pushed them to suffer for what we wanted them to be; that self-sacrifice on their part is a huge part of their arc. We asked a LOT of them and have given very little in return. And since we cannot let them go now, I don't want them to simply be our giving tree. That feels very exploitive.
And I fully agree that we should give back. I just don't think a romantic and/or sexual relationship should be on the table for these kinds of give-and-takes. The transactionality and the idea that it now something Ling Qi owes them is not comfortable to me.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
And what, exactly, can we give back? What does Six want, beyond a relationship with us?
They wanted to stop hurting from being held against the grindstone of time and mortality. We convinced them to give that up, for us. They wanted to follow their nature and return to the cycle to be reborn. We convinced them to give that up, for us. They wanted to be closer to us in ways they didn't feel like they could ask for. We are on the verge of convincing them to give that up, for...?
What's left of them?
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[X] Sixiang the confidant, the friend, the fun older cousin to her other spirits. Things might not be the same, but that was the path she wanted to walk.
Snarky female(ish) friend is the way to go.
Snarky female(ish) friend is the way to go.
- Location
- United States of America
Idk man … family ,friends , a life outside of lqs head , experiences and the ability to affect real changes onto the material world , the ability to change from their previous ephemeral existence into something new or more.
Secondly they were suicidal becuase again their nature was to die and be reborn but spirit interaction 101 is that human interaction IS going to change the spirits nature . Meizhen said early on that moon spirits by nature are very open to change or being changed .
Sixiang straight up did not care if they died or understand death or why people cared when someone else died early on , they had no concept of fears or real emotions besides an idea on paper of what they are . Of course they were scared when they started to become a real person and gained perspective .
A big thing people aren't remembering is when sixiang confessed to us they said " I don't know if I'm in love with you or want to be you " hence the whole wanting to eat qi as a urge , and take over their existence .
Sixiang is changing in ways that's scary to them but also very much still very dependent on wi obviously becuase they are lqs muse , formed from her parts and by the dreaming moons very nature only really attach to a singular individual or artist .
A rejection here just means we aren't persuing a romantic relationship with them , not that we are denying them their one true want forever and they will never find fulfillment in any other capacity
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Ling Qi's family, Ling Qi's friends. A life they didn't actually want unitl we pushed them into it. The ability to effect changes onto something they never really cared about, and longer time before they return to ephemera and are reborn.
Like, it's not the only thing going on for sure, but there's definitely 'I hurt you but it's for your own good so you should be glad I did' going on here.
Six's story seems to be not getting what they want but trying to make the best of it anyways.
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From an in-universe perspective of Ling Qi or from a standpoint of roleplaying as her, that is true. From a standpoint of us, the thread, as authors of collective fiction, it leaves the character of Sixiang in a pretty awkward point where their development was mostly spinning the wheels for more than two years and then just doesn't really come to anything and is left unconnected to the narrative. Now, it's true that the vote kind of promises development either way and that Sixiang might find something outside of romance that is theirs but also still interacts with Ling Qi - however, it does not look promising given our history.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
It does occur to me that my question did get answered- if Six wasn't sure if they wanted us or wanted to be us, then they are probably going to lean into being us as best they can. Which will be interesting with the mannequin, and how much they know of our arts.
We might be getting a twin sister path. And every good diplomat has a body double, right?
We might be getting a twin sister path. And every good diplomat has a body double, right?
[X] Sixiang the companion, the friend… and perhaps something more, it would make her already tricky situation trickier, but… she felt she could try.
It's the first time in a while that I am annoyed by the vote itself. I don't even like the SIX-QI pairing, but we haven't explored this enough to put forward a permanent no. This was a single update after months of OOC and in-universe time since the last update we touched on this subject. I wouldn't have minded it if the vote was phrased as LQ's boundaries, and there was a good chance that Six would decide that is not a relationship they wanted, and there was a permanent break. but this is not enough attention or consideration for a fairly important issue for one LQ's closet relationship. I am not sure I actually like what it means to LQ'S characterization .
It's the first time in a while that I am annoyed by the vote itself. I don't even like the SIX-QI pairing, but we haven't explored this enough to put forward a permanent no. This was a single update after months of OOC and in-universe time since the last update we touched on this subject. I wouldn't have minded it if the vote was phrased as LQ's boundaries, and there was a good chance that Six would decide that is not a relationship they wanted, and there was a permanent break. but this is not enough attention or consideration for a fairly important issue for one LQ's closet relationship. I am not sure I actually like what it means to LQ'S characterization .
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It kinda seems like there's a genuine issue here of people just disagreeing on what we're even voting on. To me it reads as 'lock ourselves into a platonic relationship now' vs 'leave it open/continue to explore and see how things develop,' but it a lot of people seem to be treating this as either a referendum on the possibility of poly or 'romance Sixiang, yes or no.' And those are some pretty different interpretations/framings which don't really work together.
ReignTorrential
Save Your Crown for a Rainy Day
It's functionally a referendum of the possibility of poly, by dint of the fact that it's the only possibility of poly afaict.
It's like if there's only one possible thing to eat for dinner, asking whether you want to eat that thing is functionally "do you want to have dinner?"
- Location
- the internet
The thing is it is, IMO, locking us into a poly route or at least locking out the option of ever just being best friends with Six again. Once a certain line is crossed, you don't go back. Once Six and LQ go there, they can't go back to how things are right now.
[x] Sixiang the companion, the friend… and perhaps something more, it would make her already tricky situation trickier, but… she felt she could try.
I'm not certain, but in a way that bridge is already burned. It would be somewhat painful for Six to be so close to their heart's desire, but yet unable to have it; Not only that, they would have to watch another man have everything they want. But I am just arguing more for arguing' sake.
I just really would've wanted to see LQ and Six together, doesn't matter the political backlash
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Since were doing Sixiang now, and Bao Qian in like a month, can we do the other two in the coming months as well? Id love to have a vote to decide Ling Qi doesn't have feelings for Meng Dan and just nip that in the bud too.
So. It's probably a good idea to examine what's lead to this moment, a bit. Following the Dream tribulation, Ling Qi's awakened to being able to open herself to romantic possibility. During the tribulation, it was Sixiang's feelings for Ling Qi which sparked their tension and crisis, and it was Ling Qi's refusal to accept simply discarding those feelings which, among other things, lead to her [Communication] breakthrough. Before the tribulation, leading up to and being part of its reason to exist, was a status quo where Sixiang's interests, objections, and priorities were consistently sidelined or ignored, pretty much whenever and casually by Ling Qi.
The tribulation gave us lingering relationship tensions and the tool to parse them, Communication. That was 10 months ago, in-universe, and what we see in this conversation (and in our memories, obviously) is that they have not done this. Sixiang still does not know what their romantic feelings are, exactly. Ling Qi's apparently picked up a whole new set of doubts surrounding the nature of Sixiang's personhood and attending implications on agency, somewhen.
These aren't bad issues to have at all, since they're opportunities to Communicate about it. But they haven't and, structurally, if the "no" vote goes through here, they're just... not going to? The two went off on their own ways and pondered about things for a while, which is fine, but by the logic of the tribulation itself, of course they wouldn't have much to show for that. They weren't Communicating, which would mean coming together to parse and explore these feelings and concerns, well, together. They were never going to figure these things out themselves because Communication is supreme and they're issues deeply intertwined with the other. Explore your love for another without them? Explore another's identity and autonomy without them? Impossible nonsense. Doesn't even make sense.
Ling Qi's very recent tidying up of the truth/sincerity -> communication snarl and final tweaking of the insight that got disordered during the tribulation is a decent excuse for why she hadn't been able to work on the aftermath properly. But that demands that she actually does. And structurally, narratively, a "no" vote here doesn't do that. It pushes the issues, Sixiang's feelings, Ling Qi's doubts and concerns relating to Power in their dynamic, to the side and decides, essentially, to not look at them. Which, again structurally, brings us right back to the bad old pre-tribulation days where anything Sixiang which might be the least bit inconvenient simply goes away, denied and unexamined. Yes, sure, romance is inherently reciprocal, not what I'm talking about here and not relevant for some other reasons I'll get to.
This dynamic, this framing, is a problem. Sixiang says "we", but that really means "Ling Qi". Why can't Sixiang make a case, a suit, like the others have dipped into boldness to do? Asserting that they'll pursue her unless and until she gives a solid "no". Because everything Sixiang does is subject to the confines of Ling Qi's convenience. That's the fundamental problem we were trying to escape with the tribulation, and by failing to follow up on the tribulation even (and especially) by its own terms, that's the same problem that we're fundamentally sinking into. The framing matters.
To not even give things a chance here, the only option available to us that actually has the two commune over the relationship tensions in earnest, simply doesn't make sense. Frankly, we were better off just moving forwards and ignoring the whole deal, if we're going to dumpster it now. This only brings attention to the contradictions in an unwieldy way which hurts, badly, the characterization of those involved.
yrsillar's inadvertently bit off the issue that if "no" wins here, he's got to articulate a reason for it. And I'm just not sure there's any that really fit the moment?
So far, Ling Qi's standards for leaving open the door of romance have been (1)a person she trusts who (2)likes her and (3)she's capable of being attracted to. Their current conversation shows that all of those apply. Not being sure if she reciprocates has very clearly not been a reason for Ling Qi to pull the breaks on a suitor. So reasons given need to explain why Sixiang's a different case. Which, uh.
...Is it money? Funny, but doesn't make sense. The concerns about agency and/of personhood don't really hold up, as ranted about in the spoiler above. Just thinks of them as family? We just saw Sixiang can make that heart flutter. Sixiang's feelings aren't really romantic after all? Without the two of them actually exploring those feelings, you're either having Ling Qi make a proclamation about them or Sixiang... chickening out or something? These are feelings which haven't been interrogated for 10 months, which can't be in the span of one conversation, and dismissing or invalidating them in that way feels like it betrays the very fabric of their shared tribulation, the concept of Communication, and the buildup in this scene. So is it the poly thing? Ling Qi's stepped across thicker comfort boundaries for people she's less close to already, this doesn't really feel like it'd track the trajectory of how she approaches romantic prospects, to-date.
Speaking of,
Bao Qian got a freebie one year extension AND a dedicated adventure arc, at the end of a freebie adventure arc. No votes involved. If the vote for Xuan Shi staying in the story had been a standalone Y/N vote explicitly about romance, he'd almost certainly have been cut, probably with a similar looking ratio. Even Meng Dan may not have survived a vote if it took place before any flirting or chemistry had a chance to root itself. And he's, of course, enjoyed a journey free from formal accounting.
Shutting the door here just isn't consistent. It's not consistent in meta-terms. It's not consistent with the thematic purpose or outcome of the tribulation. It wouldn't be consistent with Ling Qi's in-story approach to romance. It's not consistent characterization. Except maybe insofar as it falls into the failures of the pre-tribulation status quo which, uh, see inconsistency re: tribulation.
If "no" takes the day, the story would genuinely make more sense if this entire conversation got scrubbed and we just pretended that the two of them forgot to ever put their heads together on the subject. Because having them decide to figure things out and then elect to not progress with figuring out how either of them actually feels, which is the inevitable consequence of the "no" option as currently framed and built up to, doesn't make sense. Narratively, they can't be left in a waffling limbo. As a practical matter, they can't make enough progress over the course of this single conversation, not with the cards you dealt their hands going into the vote.
It's actually impossible, yrs.
The tribulation gave us lingering relationship tensions and the tool to parse them, Communication. That was 10 months ago, in-universe, and what we see in this conversation (and in our memories, obviously) is that they have not done this. Sixiang still does not know what their romantic feelings are, exactly. Ling Qi's apparently picked up a whole new set of doubts surrounding the nature of Sixiang's personhood and attending implications on agency, somewhen.
Ling Qi's concerns here don't seem well founded. There's the fact that Sixiang's romantic feelings developed over time rather than being something they were created with, first off.
But if we take it as granted that Sixiang's nature as Ling Qi's muse makes romance a grave concern, why is that concern limited to romance and not, say, the fact that Sixiang's willing to put aside virtually any aspiration or want of theirs if it means staying by Ling Qi's side?
It seems inconsistent, blinkered, or even outright hypocritical for Ling Qi to weigh the concern in a way that cuts off romance out of ethical concerns. It doesn't stand up as an enhanced concern for Sixiang's agency; the practical effect, in the broader context of their relationship, is an infantilizing rejection of Sixiang's agency to have their own feelings treated as internally authentic.
But if we take it as granted that Sixiang's nature as Ling Qi's muse makes romance a grave concern, why is that concern limited to romance and not, say, the fact that Sixiang's willing to put aside virtually any aspiration or want of theirs if it means staying by Ling Qi's side?
It seems inconsistent, blinkered, or even outright hypocritical for Ling Qi to weigh the concern in a way that cuts off romance out of ethical concerns. It doesn't stand up as an enhanced concern for Sixiang's agency; the practical effect, in the broader context of their relationship, is an infantilizing rejection of Sixiang's agency to have their own feelings treated as internally authentic.
These aren't bad issues to have at all, since they're opportunities to Communicate about it. But they haven't and, structurally, if the "no" vote goes through here, they're just... not going to? The two went off on their own ways and pondered about things for a while, which is fine, but by the logic of the tribulation itself, of course they wouldn't have much to show for that. They weren't Communicating, which would mean coming together to parse and explore these feelings and concerns, well, together. They were never going to figure these things out themselves because Communication is supreme and they're issues deeply intertwined with the other. Explore your love for another without them? Explore another's identity and autonomy without them? Impossible nonsense. Doesn't even make sense.
Ling Qi's very recent tidying up of the truth/sincerity -> communication snarl and final tweaking of the insight that got disordered during the tribulation is a decent excuse for why she hadn't been able to work on the aftermath properly. But that demands that she actually does. And structurally, narratively, a "no" vote here doesn't do that. It pushes the issues, Sixiang's feelings, Ling Qi's doubts and concerns relating to Power in their dynamic, to the side and decides, essentially, to not look at them. Which, again structurally, brings us right back to the bad old pre-tribulation days where anything Sixiang which might be the least bit inconvenient simply goes away, denied and unexamined. Yes, sure, romance is inherently reciprocal, not what I'm talking about here and not relevant for some other reasons I'll get to.
This dynamic, this framing, is a problem. Sixiang says "we", but that really means "Ling Qi". Why can't Sixiang make a case, a suit, like the others have dipped into boldness to do? Asserting that they'll pursue her unless and until she gives a solid "no". Because everything Sixiang does is subject to the confines of Ling Qi's convenience. That's the fundamental problem we were trying to escape with the tribulation, and by failing to follow up on the tribulation even (and especially) by its own terms, that's the same problem that we're fundamentally sinking into. The framing matters.
To not even give things a chance here, the only option available to us that actually has the two commune over the relationship tensions in earnest, simply doesn't make sense. Frankly, we were better off just moving forwards and ignoring the whole deal, if we're going to dumpster it now. This only brings attention to the contradictions in an unwieldy way which hurts, badly, the characterization of those involved.
yrsillar's inadvertently bit off the issue that if "no" wins here, he's got to articulate a reason for it. And I'm just not sure there's any that really fit the moment?
So far, Ling Qi's standards for leaving open the door of romance have been (1)a person she trusts who (2)likes her and (3)she's capable of being attracted to. Their current conversation shows that all of those apply. Not being sure if she reciprocates has very clearly not been a reason for Ling Qi to pull the breaks on a suitor. So reasons given need to explain why Sixiang's a different case. Which, uh.
...Is it money? Funny, but doesn't make sense. The concerns about agency and/of personhood don't really hold up, as ranted about in the spoiler above. Just thinks of them as family? We just saw Sixiang can make that heart flutter. Sixiang's feelings aren't really romantic after all? Without the two of them actually exploring those feelings, you're either having Ling Qi make a proclamation about them or Sixiang... chickening out or something? These are feelings which haven't been interrogated for 10 months, which can't be in the span of one conversation, and dismissing or invalidating them in that way feels like it betrays the very fabric of their shared tribulation, the concept of Communication, and the buildup in this scene. So is it the poly thing? Ling Qi's stepped across thicker comfort boundaries for people she's less close to already, this doesn't really feel like it'd track the trajectory of how she approaches romantic prospects, to-date.
Speaking of,
@yrsillar is 40% (where the "yeah, let's at least give it a shot" vote share sat last time I checked) enough? That's not really a small number, and this vote doesn't exactly cleanly capture the sentiment you're curious about either. There's never been an up/down vote on a romance candidate like this, before. My structural concerns here are more about character ramifications and narrative beats, but this doesn't seem super fair for dyed in the wool SixQi fans.Yrsillar
I am willing to give it a try if there is enough audience preference— Yesterday at 1:08 PM
— Yesterday at 1:08 PMBao Qian got a freebie one year extension AND a dedicated adventure arc, at the end of a freebie adventure arc. No votes involved. If the vote for Xuan Shi staying in the story had been a standalone Y/N vote explicitly about romance, he'd almost certainly have been cut, probably with a similar looking ratio. Even Meng Dan may not have survived a vote if it took place before any flirting or chemistry had a chance to root itself. And he's, of course, enjoyed a journey free from formal accounting.
Shutting the door here just isn't consistent. It's not consistent in meta-terms. It's not consistent with the thematic purpose or outcome of the tribulation. It wouldn't be consistent with Ling Qi's in-story approach to romance. It's not consistent characterization. Except maybe insofar as it falls into the failures of the pre-tribulation status quo which, uh, see inconsistency re: tribulation.
If "no" takes the day, the story would genuinely make more sense if this entire conversation got scrubbed and we just pretended that the two of them forgot to ever put their heads together on the subject. Because having them decide to figure things out and then elect to not progress with figuring out how either of them actually feels, which is the inevitable consequence of the "no" option as currently framed and built up to, doesn't make sense. Narratively, they can't be left in a waffling limbo. As a practical matter, they can't make enough progress over the course of this single conversation, not with the cards you dealt their hands going into the vote.
It's actually impossible, yrs.
[x] Sixiang the companion, the friend… and perhaps something more, it would make her already tricky situation trickier, but… she felt she could try.
I'm not voting for this because I believe in SixQi, I'm voting for it because I want them to explore it more and find that this aint it chief. From both sides
I'm not voting for this because I believe in SixQi, I'm voting for it because I want them to explore it more and find that this aint it chief. From both sides