Remove ads

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Looking at the three options, I think Expression and Want are the best options.

Firstly, it's the best option mechanically. We have or will have all three of these concepts at Rank IV (4/8) at the end of the turn. However, while we have 5 sources of Want XP and 2 sources (and 1 dedicated art in LFWT) of Motion, we only have 1 source of Expression in MoSS.
Secondly, it helps to address Dzintara's issue with the Empire. The White Sky is all about communal decisions and focusing on the people, so her current issue is that our higher realms walk among us. They are the people who govern and make decisions, and, based on their experiences with the Iron King, that is something that leads to one person imposing sacrifice on others and misery.

This vote isn't about which concept to do or about Ling Qi and Renxiang but about the good of the imperial system's higher realms and their rule. The main argument of this debate is Power and what it does to leaders and nations. We're deciding on a supporting concept.

yrsillar said:
It was a bit spontaneous of her, but Ling Qi hummed under her breath, a low, droning bar. Unchanging misery. Tomorrows all as drudging as today. Power unchallenged. A nightmare of Forever.

Dzintara's lips drew back, her sharp, iron teeth grinding, spitting sparks. "Hmph, you do understand."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

yrsillar said:
"Then debate with me on the power of peoples and nations, and show me that you have more than words."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

yrsillar said:
Power is the subject of debate. Choose a second concept to pair with it. This will grant additional XP and affect Dzintara's post debate disposition
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


So, between the three choices, Motion, Expression, and Want, this is how we'll approach the view of higher realms being the ones in power, IMO.

[ ] Motion
Our higher realms work among us, but we are not stagnant. Power changes with each new generation and leader.

On the surface, it looks good, because we're addressing the issue of stagnation. But even though there's change, it's still higher realms in power. They are still enforcing their choices on others. It's stable, yes, but, as Dzintara has pointed out, stable can mean different things.

"I can understand how our practices might look to an outsider, but we are quite stable as these things go," Ling Qi said without missing a beat. Reaching the top of the rise, she clasped her hands and bowed.

"Stable. Yes I suppose it would be," Dzintara said. The hawk nosed woman studied her face. "Stable. That is a word which can mean many things."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

[ ] Expression
For Expression, we'll be telling Dzintara that our higher realms walk among us and make decisions, but their decisions are the consensus of the people. We'll be telling her this, basically.

yrsillar said:
It wasn't enough to want power for its own sake, all of them, all of them wished to change something. They had a story to tell, and voices so loud that the world had no choice but to listen, and so convincing that many, many people listened without coercion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because the highest master of self, the peak of cultivation, is to have people take up your mantle and follow you because of the message you are spreading, not out of force. Thus, their Power is the will of the people.

[ ] Want
Want says our higher realms walk among us, but they are not inflexible and alien. They are grounded to us and our people by their wants and connections, so they and their choices can be controlled through their Wants.

Looking at these three, I think Expression and Want are the best. They feel like they address the issue of higher realms being in command and making decisions for all, a la the Iron King. Motion talks about changes in regime but doesn't address people's choices compared to their leaders. Want talks somewhat about how higher realms help the people and don't impose sacrifice on them. Unlike the White Sky, the Empire's Sovereigns are connected to the world and its matters and have wants and needs of their own that can align with the people. Expression talks about how the higher realms are mostly where they are because they pursue a goal that most people want because, the higher up you go, the more support you'll need, so the more people who'll have to believe in your vision.

The White Sky is all about having low realms that are connected to the people make decisions by community consensus. Expression feels like the one that fits that's that ideal better.
And lastly, we will definitely be showing or bringing up the Vermin god here. And, surprise surprise, the Vermin god fits the Iron King's archetype well.

yrsillar said:
To use the same framework by which she examined the previous Beast Gods, then the Vermin God was Power which arose from emptiness of the self. From consumption without thought, building nothing, only taking. It was the same sort of Power Su Ling's mother had, which Bleak Sky's yearning had, a bottomless hunger that could know no satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

yrsillar said:
If the Eagle God was a critique of overweening pride it was still a comment made from a place of strength. The Vermin God on the other hand was ironically a character clearly created by one looking down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

IMO, the option that best refutes the Vermin god, if it truly will be used as example, is the one that best fits best, and that is Expression.

yrsillar said:
Ling Qi smoothed her gown and sat down upon the grass. That was at the crux of it too. Tsu united the tribes, the peoples of the Emerald Seas with words. He was tricky. He was rarely the one to lay an opponent low, rather inspiring others or bringing defeat through their own foibles. However, Tsu the Diviner was not a pacifist, he did not admonish against violence. As was made clear in the next section, in the death of the Bear God, he did not shy from personal violence.

Violence, Ling Qi thought, was intrinsic to Power. That part of the Nightmare King's words were not wrong. All battles could not be avoided. She considered again the scurrying rats under the earth. They were peaceful too, nuzzling and crawling around their kin in the warren. It was not nonviolence which raised men above beasts, nor violence which degraded men, because neither men nor beasts were unique in violence or peace. Rather, the wisdom of Tsu as expressed by the play, the art, was to be deft in its wielding. A sword was a tool made for the slaying of men. A spear for slaying beasts. The staff was a support and a tool first, and a weapon last.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Tsu brought the Beast gods down using Communication and expression to unite people or by using their wants and laws against them. For the Vermin god, it was both, since the united people slayed the Vermin god after it was brought low by its desires.


And, between Expression and Want, I prefer Expression because we have fewer sources, and it's the source of [Communication], which I want to explore more.

[X] Expression
[X] Want
 
Last edited:
[X] Expression

We have fewer sources, and moreover this is the exact thing LQ is answering:

yrsillar said:
It was a bit spontaneous of her, but Ling Qi hummed under her breath, a low, droning bar. Unchanging misery. Tomorrows all as drudging as today. Power unchallenged. A nightmare of Forever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is not enough that things do not change, but the true nature of the nightmare is that no one can think of change. How else would Power go unchallenged, if people cannot conceive of it and share the concept?
 
Want is probably the most universally resonant, but while it can be understood, it doesn't say much for the diplomacy beyond "this is mutually profitable".

Motion meanwhile asserts that we aren't a static society, that those who seek the heights must desire change. But part of their issue with us is how fractured and purposeless we all seem to be, and Motion only worsens the issue - how do you truly ally with such a chaotic polity?

[X] Expression

This should cover things like "Why so polite to the human atomic bomb" and address the unity of provinces. How great powers must convey their goals correctly enough to avoid greater conflict and achieve non-conflicting goals.
 
[X] Motion

For all that high-tier cultivators are rigid and inflexible, our high-tier cultivator is the Tyrant Progress and her slice of the empire is most definitely not stagnant.
 
[X] Motion

Yeah, I think this is an easy Motion vote for me here.

Expression as seen through Ling Qi's lens muddies the field too much, since hers is about legacy mostly.

Want has Community and Home as subsets of it, but they still are subsets. It's main driving force is still in the wanting, and while that certainly disperses the claims of stagnation, that's all it does mostly.

Motion on the other hand, is basically all positive relative to this topic. Or at least positive to Ling Qi personally.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top