Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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I mean, part of that is structural. We haven't been interacting them, so no duh we're not going to go with options that compromise the issue currently facing us for the sake of narratively unsupported MoI brownie points. Doesn't make sense, and probably wouldn't have been well justified in the narrative if we'd picked them.

Cause this stuff is hard to write.
 
I still want to hear their side of the story. This is probably correct, but not in the unlikely event that the guy actually does have, like, a broken wrist.

Like, my own impression is that a guard intervening was 100% warranted but she probably intervened too hard and should thus apologize...but we need more details to know that for sure.

EDIT: Actually, re-reading it, there were 'further fisticuffs' once Xia Lin got involved, so she did in fact hit people. Of course, the hitting had already begun by that point, but she almost certainly did indeed punch the guard in turn.
You misread that re-read. There were further fisticuffs that Xia Lin's arrival put a stop to. Nothing says she hit anyone.
 
She prevented steel from being drawn. It doesn't say she never hit anyone or prevented all violence, and it sounded to me like she did in fact engage in violence, but the text is ambiguous looking back on it.
Here's Jin Tae's exact words:

"... When an argument broke out over this, one of the foreign guards struck an imperial artisan with her fist. There were some further fisticuffs, but your Xia Lin stopped steel from being drawn, but this is quite grave no? It's unacceptable behavior."

Thanks the moon for Xia Lin, if steel was drawn, she doubted the general would have restrained herself. Ling Qi narrowed her eyes at him. "Yes, we cannot allow violence between us. Where are the people involved now?"
There is nothing here to indicate that Xia Lin stopped further violence with more violence. It wouldn't make sense for the White Sky guards to not draw Steel if Xia Lin counterpunched the White Sky Soldier, and we'd definitely hear about anyone who got punched by Xia Lin being in the White Sky Infirmary by now if she did.

There's also this quote when the Artisan recounted her version of events:

Things had risen to the level of shouting, and the man had tried to ignore her continuing to place the tile anyway. She'd grabbed his wrist to stop him. The next thing she had known, she was laying on the floor bleeding. One of those 'Brute women' snarling at her with a fist raised. There was shouting and Xia Lin darting in between people, shouting over everyone to force a calm.
This seems to make it very clear that Xia Lin didn't engage in violence.
 
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Something we should prepare ourselves to possibly deal with is if this isn't an issue of simple, material law but spiritual, religious.

Masculine passifism is, essentially, culturally obligatory and rests on ideas about humans' base spiritual nature and junk. Absolute protection from human violence could be a part of that parcel, a carrot to go with the stick. In which case the guard's response would be pretty understandable.

And it would make things a lot more complicated to handle, for us. Thankfully, we should learn if that's the case pretty quickly.

Edit: For reference, the group of sunbros we met before said that they were scandalously progressive for brotherly arm wrestling.
 
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I mean, part of that is structural. We haven't been interacting them, so no duh we're not going to go with options that compromise the issue currently facing us for the sake of narratively unsupported MoI brownie points. Doesn't make sense, and probably wouldn't have been well justified in the narrative if we'd picked them.

Cause this stuff is hard to write.
There his been enough "things will get way worse with the MoI if ling qi isn't careful" already written into the narrative that it absolutely would've been perfectly justified in the narrative if we'd pick them. People just straight up don't want to.
 
People's paranoia about the MoI is far more of a problem really.

Ultimately the MoI are never going to be fans of us or what we're trying to do here. They, and the rest of the #Imperialism #Xenophobia faction here are not fans of us trying to, you know, actually make friends with foreigners and do things like treat them like human beings who deserve respect. Or treat a peer polity like a peer polity. This, you may note, is incompatible with the goals of doing diplomacy which is why we've been making the decisions we have been.

Our goal is not for them to like us, because they won't. Our goal is for them to not feel like we're a sufficient problem that they have to do something, which we're doing by managing things carefully. Them being vaguely disapproving but not doing much more is fine and is in fact where we want to be.
 
There his been enough "things will get way worse with the MoI if ling qi isn't careful" already written into the narrative that it absolutely would've been perfectly justified in the narrative if we'd pick them. People just straight up don't want to.
In terms of mechanistic progression of the narrative? Not really. The framing of prior decision points have been pretty weak in supporting the pro-MoI options. That is, they were weak in presenting them as pro MoI choices. The logic wasn't really present/available to the reader/player in the moment, and landing on those options probably would have been awkward.

Again, this stuff ain't easy to write. You're right that the need to placate the MoI has been established in the abstract. But that's the problem, it's been in the abstract, not the concrete.
 
I am quite concerned that some people are automatically assuming that any view the MOI takes must necessarily be wrong. I have no issue with the assumption that the MOI have different goals and motivations to us, but that doesn't make their observations necessarily wrong. Nor does it mean that our own observations, which align with those of the MOI are wrong either - especially when Ling Qi has confirmed the authenticity of those observations: the worker wasn't lying.

Secondly, while I am aware that the Empire has cultural issues and that it is important to respect the culture of the White Sky we need to remember that the White Sky will also have cultural issues and that it is also important to respect the Empire'c culture. The Empire isn't always the bad guy and it is unhelpful to always look for ways to villanize it. That is the opposite mistake of the one the MOI is making.
 
I mean its simple enough, the MoI only really have two major goals here:
1) Ensure nobody compromises Imperial interests, especially militarily, but also economically and culturally. That nobody seems to agree what Imperial Interests ARE is a bit of a pain.

2) Cease wasting time on this farce so they can spend manpower elsewhere.

They legitimately don't think this is going to work, but unless we cross lines first they won't be interested in damaging their reputation and relationships over being caught potentially sabotaging things.

Jin Tae was just not containing his genuine amusement very well at things going like he expected because of barbarians behaving like barbarians, and he's not even being open about it, Ling Qi is just a higher stage empath specialized cultivator. He's not going to hazard his ministry position over whats basically a braid pulling.
 
I mean its simple enough, the MoI only really have two major goals here:
1) Ensure nobody compromises Imperial interests, especially militarily, but also economically and culturally. That nobody seems to agree what Imperial Interests ARE is a bit of a pain.

2) Cease wasting time on this farce so they can spend manpower elsewhere.
That's already covered by various assholes already involved. I suppose the party leader could be being assigned to useless busywork to stop him from noticing some specific bit of corruption he was going to purge before he got the assignment... Or he could have just gotten a wild hair up his ass about our project and assigned himself to it. But MiniInt as a whole had no business here until the Jungle stuck her vines in.
 
Just need to clarify, what exactly was shouted around, and why the other side didn't respond.

Oh, and perhaps contextual behaviour of both sides all along the work.

If the punched crafter was the kind that used to do catcalls on the males, and then she shouted out coarse words to the artisan before handling him, those are a lot of flags that might explain a reasonable punching out.

If she was a reasonable worker, with reasonable warnings have been spoken before the touching, then the artisan and puncher seem to be at fault.

Meh, it is probably going to be a mix, anyway.

LQ: So the puncher was trying to impress the guy, and the artisan actually is deaf? And the punchee had actually been trying to flirt with alot of the guys from the other side? Sixiang, come back quickly!
JT: +cackles openly+
 
Just need to clarify, what exactly was shouted around, and why the other side didn't respond.
Honestly, that strikes me as irrelevant considering both sides need an interpreter to know what the other side is saying. However, body language and tone should be enough for anyone to surmise what the Imperial Artisan was trying to say.

We know exactly why the White Sky didn't bother replying. Nerves were already fraying due to incompatible formation craft, a tight schedule, and a hectic work environment with a ton of delays due to the need for translators and lack of familiarity with the cultures and techniques of all involved.

Everyone just wanted to get it done and go home already instead of being delayed for the nth time over some technicality they'll have to spend god knows how long arguing over with translators involved.
 
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Honestly, that strikes me as irrelevant considering both sides need an interpreter to know what the other side is saying. However, body language and tone should be enough for anyone to surmise what the Imperial Artisan was trying to say.

We know exactly why the White Sky didn't bother replying. Nerves were already fraying due to incompatible formation craft, a tight schedule, and a hectic work environment with a ton of delays due to the need for translators and lack of familiarity with the cultures and techniques of all involved.

Everyone just wanted to get it done and go home already instead of being delayed for the nth time over some technicality they'll have to spend god knows how long arguing over with translators involved.
Oh, wait, I did forget that they still needed translators. Why weren't the translators doing their job then?
 
Oh, wait, I did forget that they still needed translators. Why weren't the translators doing their job then?
Busy elsewhere mediating another part of the construction probably. Translators are a specialized job and there's a limited number of them. They'll most likely be attached to the supervisors instead of patrolling the site.
 
Don't Third Realms learn languages stupid fast? Shouldn't there already be a bunch of people who can communicate with each other?
Ling Qi cultivates Music, and communication comes easily to her. Everyone else is working with regular eidetic memory and not everyone is willing to spend a few weeks cramming a language instead of their actual interests.

The translators probably have a similar acquisition rate to Qi for similar reasons
 
Its for now, still chokepointed. The issue is not a permanent one, but its been like...months. A month if you want to count true interaction rather than just expedition encounters.
 
Translation talismans are a thing.

An expensive thing. Equipping an entire workforce rather than a few translators is probably cost prohibitive. Even with the money spent here there's always a reason to be economical, especially when you should be able to rely on the discipline of your people.
 
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I could imagine a plot twist that with the WS geomantic formations if he didn't finish in a timely manner something was going to explode or contaminate the work causing massive delays somehow.

Unusual or sensitive stuff like that is generally covered in multiple meetings ahead of time and a morning scope of work briefing to avoid issues. A time crunch and poor communication or site management make almost any possibility believable though.
 
An expensive thing. Equipping an entire workforce rather than a few translators is probably cost prohibitive. Even with the money spent here there's always a reason to be economical, especially when you should be able to rely on the discipline of your people.
Entiry workforce? No.
Set of translators who can be available 24/7 at construction sites? much more manageable.
Main point here is that time to train translators is not really as big of barrier as one might think.
 
Entiry workforce? No.
Set of translators who can be available 24/7 at construction sites? much more manageable.
Main point here is that time to train translators is not really as big of barrier as one might think.

Well, yeah, that is the situation as described.

The need to communicate through a handful of translators made things slow and cumbersome.

So it's not like there were no translators, but also it's not like the workers can understand eachother.


Also noted that this is how the woman described the event-

See the silhouette of the slim young man in white robes as she seized his wrist and jerked his hand away from the array.

She is a late second realm, the guard who punched her is early third, so not a huge distance. The man is not mentioned to be a cultivator? At least, I didn't see anything referencing him.

So we've got Jin walking up to us and saying "there was an arguement and then they punched one of ours", and referring to the builder as the victim. However, it's pretty clear that the builder started the arguement, then escalated to physical means first.

Which definitely makes me think that Jin is only interested in this as leverage, and is not to be relied on for accuracy in the future.
 
Our goal is for them to not feel like we're a sufficient problem that they have to do something, which we're doing by managing things carefully
The thing is we're not managing things carefully. If we were, for at least one instance, we'd toss them a bone to keep them satisfied--some small things that doesn't actually matter. We've had several opportunities to do this but chose to do the opposite instead, even when it would've cost us nothing. All these little moments are going to add up and its likely going to come back to bite us because we didn't manage carefully, diplomatically which is our job. This is most likely if we keep doing what we've been doing, showing ourselves to be openly biased rather than maintaining a veneer of unbiased professionalism.
She can't afford to appear as openly biased as our reader base. Not to truly, effectively complete the mission.
 
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