Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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While I do admit that Sixiang does have bad memories in the site and going there may prove to be more detrimental than beneficial, I see the option as a trial to overcome. Just as Ling Qi attempts to overcome her nightmare, so too must Sixiang, in order to better help Ling Qi, overcome his/her distaste. (I just hope that trial isn't like the last straw for her to disappear)
 
This argument is inane. Fundamentally, what this argument is saying is that extrinsic evidence that might affect our decision shouldn't affect our decision because it just means that the site is suitable. I can do that too.

Since Sixiang is a moon spirit, that makes the Silent Stones not likely fundamentally unsuitable, since it gives moon qi, which was already obvious from the framing of the vote. The fact that Sixiang is a moon spirit doesn't tell us anything new or actionable.

What Sixiang comment tells us, is that she enjoys being in the presence of the Argent Vent. That is a completely different topic than suitability. All the sites are suitable, so which site is better. The one that she enjoys being around, or the site that gives her moon qi but also reminds her of a time that she blames herself for a failing us.
That's silly. Sixiang wasn't making a moral judgement on the Argent Vent, and we literally do not have Sixiang's thoughts on the Silent Stones. My point was that the comment on the Argent Vent was highly generic and that there is actually nothing to contrast it against, so it's not useful. It tells us nothing that wasn't already obvious.

Discussing elemental suitability is another matter entirely, first because it's speculatory in impact, and second because we actually are aware of the different elemental makeups and can contrast them against each other and Sixiang's elemental nature. I suspect that argument in this vein is likely to veer into the impractically unsubstantiated, but there's a good body of information to draw from and formulate theories on.

What makes people's use of the quote on the Argent Vent annoying is that the context of its use isn't to establish a fact about the vent, because it could already be assumed that a potent qi locus is pleasant enough, but to establish via implication facts about other options which we do not actually have proof of. Implying that since Sixiang voiced a like for the one site, but hasn't said anything similar about any other, so she must feel more positively about the Vent than other sites(with the further implication that that matters in this context) is faulty reasoning.
 
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[X] She flew to the Silent Stones, though she disliked the implications, it was the only moon site she knew

I don't think we know enough to definitively say which choice is "better" in a mechanical sense, so I'll be going with this due to how I like the narrative of Sixiang completing this stage of character growth by revisiting what brought it about in the first place.
 
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That's silly. Sixiang wasn't making a moral judgement on the Argent Vent, and we literally do not have Sixiang's thoughts on the Silent Stones. My point was that the comment on the Argent Vent was highly generic and that there is actually nothing to contrast it against, so it's not useful. It tells us nothing that wasn't already obvious.

Discussing elemental suitability is another matter entirely, first because it's speculatory in impact, and second because we actually are aware of the different elemental makeups and can contrast them against each other and Sixiang's elemental nature. I suspect that argument in this vein is likely to veer into the impractically unsubstantiated, but there's a good body of information to draw from and formulate theories on.

What makes people's use of the quote on the Argent Vent annoying is that the context of its use isn't to establish a fact about the vent, because it could already be assumed that a potent qi locus is pleasant enough, but to establish via implication facts about other options which we do not actually have proof of. Implying that since Sixiang voiced a like for the one site, but hasn't said anything similar about any other, so she must feel more positively about the Vent than other sites(with the further implication that that matters in this context) is faulty reasoning.
There's nothing moral about the Sixiang's enjoyment of a site. Where does morality come into play?

As for the lack of something to contrast it against, that's inaccurate. We have plenty to contrast her statement of enjoyment too. She's likely to feel uncomfortable around Zeqing's home because:
"How frightening, she wants to eat you both," Sixiang shivered. "You can sit here in front of her, but you freak out at a bit of cavorting, how strange."
implies that she is uncomfortable around individuals who desire to eat her. And that would probably extend to the home of that spirit.

And we can infer from her experience at the Silent Stones site that she would be uncomfortable revisiting a place where she had no power to help us and failed to notice the trap in the first place.

So we clearly have things to contrast with. It may not be that every site will be pleasant for her, and to ignore that aspect is to simply ignore a part of the argument.

Why do you assume that a potent qi locus is de facto to be pleasant around? What evidence do you have of that? A potent qi source of opposite nature might actually be uncomfortable to be around. So it seems like you are making assumptions about Qi focuses and then using that assumption to say why a statement regarding the pleasantness of a qi source is useless. We have evidence that this source is pleasant, and we can make inferences that the two other sites might be unpleasant to be around.

As for discussing elemental suitability, that's a discussion on the suitability of the site... which is pointless because all of the sites are suitable or they wouldn't be in the vote. There's no contrast here. They are all suitable. We can debate and argue the possible ramifications on Sixiang and the changes that might occur because of the chosen site, but that's a discussion not about element suitability but about the effects of each choice. Which is a fine discussion, but is so unsubstantiated that there is no way to determine with any degree of certainty what the effects might be.

So no, I'm sticking to my guns. Your argument is inane. It assumes things that have not been established in the story and uses that assumption to unilaterally declare that certain extrinsic evidence is meaningless. Then uses that declaration to argue against certain positions.
 
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There's nothing moral about the Sixiang's enjoyment of a site. Where does morality come into play?

As for the lack of something to contrast it against, that's inaccurate. We have plenty to contrast her statement of enjoyment too. She's likely to feel uncomfortable around Zeqing's home because:

implies that she is uncomfortable around individuals who desire to eat her. And that would probably extend to the home of that spirit.

And we can infer from her experience at the Silent Stones site that she would be uncomfortable revisiting a place where she had no power to help us and failed to notice the trap in the first place.

So we clearly have things to contrast with. It may not be that every site will be pleasant for her, and to ignore that aspect is to simply ignore a part of the argument.

Why do you assume that a potent qi locus is de facto to be pleasant around? What evidence do you have of that? A potent qi source of opposite nature might actually be uncomfortable to be around. So it seems like you are making assumptions about Qi focuses and then using that assumption to say why a statement regarding the pleasantness of a qi source is useless. We have evidence that this source is pleasant, and we can make inferences that the two other sites might be unpleasant to be around.

As for discussing elemental suitability, that's a discussion on the suitability of the site... which is pointless because all of the sites are suitable or they wouldn't be in the vote. There's no contrast here. They are all suitable. We can debate and argue the possible ramifications on Sixiang and the changes that might occur because of the chosen site, but that's a discussion not about element suitability but about the effects of each choice. Which is a fine discussion, but is so unsubstantiated that there is no way to determine with any degree of certainty what the effects might be.

So no, I'm sticking to my guns. Your argument is inane. It assumes things that have not been established in the story and uses that assumption to unilaterally declare that certain extrinsic evidence is meaningless. Then uses that declaration to argue against certain positions.
Potent environmental qi tends to be described by Ling Qi in positive terms, even when not something she has particular affinity for. Active antipathy would obviously, by definition, be unpleasant, so I saw no reason to divert from my point discussing it. Qi's nice. It's good stuff. Default assumption should be more qi is better unless it isn't. This is a tautology, yes, but I'm not trying to us it to argue for any position.

The only position I'm arguing against is that the quote from Sixiang is relevant. The Argent Vent is nice. Cool. That seemed obviously true to me anyway.

As for your quote, I think it highlights the barrier in communication we're having. Zeqing's a discomfiting presence, our past with the location the Silent Stones are located in is a bit unpeasant, but neither of those have anything to do directly with the nature of the qi in those locations, which is what Sixiang's asked after, and what I am objecting to characterizing via the quote regarding the Argent Vent. This is why I said Sixiang wasn't making a "moral" judgement; her comment was on the qi itself, not its context which is what you're bringing up to compare. This is a bad point of comparison, in my opinion.

Like, if I were to argue against Zeqing's home, I would argue against it on the grounds that her home appears likely from our limited knowledge to be an environment similar to whatever it is Sixiang is attempting to construct in our head, and that interference or something might be more likely on those grounds. Or that it would be a rude intrusion to finalize an unassociated spirit's sorta-Domain inside of another's. Or something. But I'm not trying to argue for or against any of the three options here.

Emphatically, I'm only arguing against the weight people appear to be assigning to Sixiang's comment on the Argent Vent, in a time when it was the only site we had access to and we'd barely cultivated for a week. The idea that it'd be considered relevant enough to decide someone's vote is baffling to me.
 
[X] She flew back home to the Argent Vent, with its solid foundation building qi
 
Bit busy, so a quickie:
Sixiang is Moon(primary), Music(primary), Water(help, stalker)

[] She flew back home to the Argent Vent, with its solid foundation building qi

Argent Qi
Pros: Argent Qi is literally Use For Whatever qi, its universally compatible due to being a balanced
Cons: Its generic and thus won't be doing anything beyond providing power.

[] She flew to Zeqing's home, the single most potent qi locus she could think of

Darkness, Cold, Music
Pros: Most powerful qi, if quantity was desired.
Cons: 2/3 of the qi there is not compatible with Sixiang and its definitely not her style? She's cheerful, energetic and careless while Zeqing's nearly the polar opposite.

[] She flew to the Silent Stones, though she disliked the implications, it was the only moon site she knew

Moon(Bloody), Sun, Earth
Pros: Aligns with Sixiang's primary element.
Cons: Are you SURE you want to infuse a muse with murder? That way lies the Leanansidhe.


[X] She flew back home to the Argent Vent, with its solid foundation building qi

Argent works for good foundational qi and while it probably won't push her to anything ridiculous, its unlikely to fuck up what she made either.
 
[X] She flew to the Silent Stones, though she disliked the implications, it was the only moon site she knew
 
[X] She flew back home to the Argent Vent, with its solid foundation building qi

Changing to this because it was pointed out Sixiang considers the Argent Vent good stuff.
 
[X] She flew to the Silent Stones, though she disliked the implications, it was the only moon site she knew
 
Personally, I think each site will have an effect on Sixiang character:

-Zeqing site is pretty potent and our muse is defining themselves. If we take them there, we will significantly warp Sixiang and they will probably gain a strong dark affiliation. I prefer a cheerful muse to a 2nd sister of Hanye.

-Silent Stones site is moon affiliated to the Bloody Moon and we discovered it via a (bloody) dream of the past. Sixiang will gain a stronger affiliation to the Moon there with a hint of Bloody Moon maybe? Probably the most uncertain outcome from my point of view.

-the Argent site is the most "safe/plain/boring/vanilla" looking option and I partially agree. The Argent Way develop the unique quirks of oneself which will hardly hurt Sixiang. However, Sixiang has developed their own ego now,contrary to the first time Ling Qi met them, and I think it would be interesting to develop this narrative, to go from Sixang a muse (literally) part of the Dreaming Moon who will return to it one day to Sixiang the muse, defining their own way, existing not for others inspiration but for themselves.

Also the chapter today was pretty fun. This fic need more Ji Rong and Ling Qi interacting in semi-antagonistic ways. They would make great frenemies.
 
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Changed my mind due to the arguments. Sixiang looks like she's fading, so I'm thinking what she needs is some good, solid foundational qi.

[X] She flew back home to the Argent Vent, with its solid foundation building qi
 
Personally, I think each site will have an effect on Sixiang character:

-Zeqing site is pretty potent and our muse is defining themselves. If we take them there, we will significantly warp Sixiang and they will probably gain a strong dark affiliation. I prefer a cheerful muse to a 2nd sister of Hanye.

-Silent Stones site is moon affiliated to the Bloody Moon and we discovered it via a (bloody) dream of the past. Sixiang will gain a stronger affiliation to the Moon there with a hint of Bloody Moon maybe? Probably the most uncertain outcome from my point of view.

-the Argent site is the most "safe/plain/boring/vanilla" looking option and I partially agree. The Argent Way develop the unique quirks of oneself which will hardly hurt Sixiang. However, Sixiang has developed their own ego now,contrary to the first time Ling Qi met them, and I think it would be interesting to develop this narrative, to go from Sixang a muse (literally) part of the Dreaming Moon who will return to it one day to Sixiang the muse, defining their own way, existing not for others inspiration but for themselves.

Also the chapter today was pretty fun. This fic need more Ji Rong and Ling Qi interacting in semi-antagonistic ways. They would make great frenemies.

Zeqing site, I definitely agree with that. It's gonna turn Sixiang a bit more dark for the sake of moor poowwweerrr

Silent Stones: Bloody Moon is gonna be brought up, but it's more in Sixiang's mind rather than her domain (debatable) and its more of her overcoming the uncomfortableness she feels towards Bloody Moon.

Argent Site: .....I'm going to stick with my vote but that's an interesting perspective. Through foundation, Sixiang becomes more independent. If this is gonna be the case, then I wouldn't mind this winning
 
[X] She flew to the Silent Stones, though she disliked the implications, it was the only moon site she knew
 
I'm guessing someone has already made this link, but:

Given the arc title...

It is the Nature of Dreams to Grow. (Argent Vent)
It is the Nature of Dreams to End. (Zeqing)
It is the Nature of Dreams to Change. (Silent Stones)

Or such is my interpretation anyway. I suppose Dark could also be Hunger or Want and Silent Stones to be Vengeance though it seems a bit of a stretch. None are, per se, bad though Zeqing's does lend itself to a more fundamental change as Sixiang's continued presence is predicated on Not Ending. What kind of change it will actually entail I could not tell you.

I think the risks are being overstated though, we should probably be thinking more along the lines of art-related domain insights. While the art itself matters, the insight gained is fundamentally related to the cultivator.
 
Potent environmental qi tends to be described by Ling Qi in positive terms, even when not something she has particular affinity for. Active antipathy would obviously, by definition, be unpleasant, so I saw no reason to divert from my point discussing it. Qi's nice. It's good stuff. Default assumption should be more qi is better unless it isn't. This is a tautology, yes, but I'm not trying to us it to argue for any position.

The only position I'm arguing against is that the quote from Sixiang is relevant. The Argent Vent is nice. Cool. That seemed obviously true to me anyway.

As for your quote, I think it highlights the barrier in communication we're having. Zeqing's a discomfiting presence, our past with the location the Silent Stones are located in is a bit unpeasant, but neither of those have anything to do directly with the nature of the qi in those locations, which is what Sixiang's asked after, and what I am objecting to characterizing via the quote regarding the Argent Vent. This is why I said Sixiang wasn't making a "moral" judgement; her comment was on the qi itself, not its context which is what you're bringing up to compare. This is a bad point of comparison, in my opinion.

Like, if I were to argue against Zeqing's home, I would argue against it on the grounds that her home appears likely from our limited knowledge to be an environment similar to whatever it is Sixiang is attempting to construct in our head, and that interference or something might be more likely on those grounds. Or that it would be a rude intrusion to finalize an unassociated spirit's sorta-Domain inside of another's. Or something. But I'm not trying to argue for or against any of the three options here.

Emphatically, I'm only arguing against the weight people appear to be assigning to Sixiang's comment on the Argent Vent, in a time when it was the only site we had access to and we'd barely cultivated for a week. The idea that it'd be considered relevant enough to decide someone's vote is baffling to me.
You seem to have two threads of intertwining arguments which is making it a bit difficult to structure my response. But here I go.

It took me a while, but it seems like you are characterizing Sixiang's statement as a statement regarding the amount of qi in the vent, and not it's nature. That seems to be the thrust of your third paragraph. That Sixiang's quote isn't about the nature of the argent vent, but about the amount of qi at the argent vent. That might be true as Ling Qi herself comments on the potency of the qi in the vent shortly afterward. However, I don't think it was solely about the potency of the qi. Ling Qi and Sixiang didn't comment about how pleasant Zeqing's home was, and they certainly didn't comment about how pleasant the Silent Stones were. There were other locations, however, that was explicitly mentioned that the qi was, in a sense, pleasant. The Mystic Vale was explicitly mentioned to have qi that was "rich and wholesome." Which begs the question, what is different about the Mystic Vale and the Argent Vent when compared to other sites of similar potency?

Your argument revolves around the idea that it can be assumed that places of potent power will be pleasing to be around unless they aren't. You say that this idea isn't part of your argument, yet it is the central part, for if we don't assume that, then we have to ask why other locations of power haven't been mentioned to be pleasing to be around. Because if that is not an assumption we hold, then Sixiang's statement could be about the amount of qi or about the nature of the qi. And if the nature of the Argent Qi is distinctly more pleasing to be around than either of the other sites, then that is an argument in favor of the Argent Vent that should be taken into consideration and not dismissed.

The second part of your argument is one that has been categorized as "moral judgment." Which I don't understand. I agree that Sixiang didn't make a moral judgment of the Argent Vent, but she also didn't make moral judgments of the other sites. This is not on the spectrum of "good vs. evil." Morality has nothing to do with this discussion. You can say that the unpleasantness for the Silent Stones and Zeqing's home are different in kind than the pleasantness Sixiang experienced at the Argent Vent. That would be true. But that does not make it a bad point for comparison. They are good points of comparison because we know that the emotional state of cultivators can affect their efforts at cultivation. Heck, it's the reason why Ling Qi is having troubles with base cultivation right now in the first place. A place that brings back unpleasant feelings may be harder to cultivate in, which could mean that Sixiang would have a harder time using the background qi. Conversely, a place that promotes a pleasant reaction could result in a better ability to cultivate. So Sixiang's different emotional reaction to the sites is a relevant point for comparison, even if they are different in kind, simply because the mental state does matter for cultivation.
 
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