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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, I've just binged everything from where I drifted off toward the end of Forge and, while I'm still a bit bitter about the Cai choice, things have definitely developed in extremely interesting ways.
The two adventure options are simply bad picks right now afaict. Paying Respects is a big deal but should wait until closer to our leaving. Finishing the Survey, Roots Inroads and Hou Zhang are all good, with Roots being probably the most passable atm as Bian Yi isn't a core contact and the other two have extremely strong benefits?
Socially, FSS is just an absurdly high priority and ignoring Xuan Shi would simply be extremely mean here having just made the offer. That locks both of those and one art.
Realistically, the only points of reasonable contention are likely the last two actions (and possibly gift/wall vs Roots Inroads). Of these, The Laughing Wind seems to be an all but mandatory pick for the cultivation site, with the final option being the only real space for contention.
Raising the Bastion, of these, doesn't strike me as super relevant, at least compared to We Are But Ripples or, preferably, Soul of Ice, both of which mesh with the kind of deep contemplation we'd be doing here.
OTOH Paying Respects may have room to talk with Xin before finishing FSS? She was Zeqing's friend and, in many ways, the driving force for what happened there.
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
[X] Plan Finishing Touch and new Opportunities
The two adventure options are simply bad picks right now afaict. Paying Respects is a big deal but should wait until closer to our leaving. Finishing the Survey, Roots Inroads and Hou Zhang are all good, with Roots being probably the most passable atm as Bian Yi isn't a core contact and the other two have extremely strong benefits?
Socially, FSS is just an absurdly high priority and ignoring Xuan Shi would simply be extremely mean here having just made the offer. That locks both of those and one art.
Realistically, the only points of reasonable contention are likely the last two actions (and possibly gift/wall vs Roots Inroads). Of these, The Laughing Wind seems to be an all but mandatory pick for the cultivation site, with the final option being the only real space for contention.
Raising the Bastion, of these, doesn't strike me as super relevant, at least compared to We Are But Ripples or, preferably, Soul of Ice, both of which mesh with the kind of deep contemplation we'd be doing here.
OTOH Paying Respects may have room to talk with Xin before finishing FSS? She was Zeqing's friend and, in many ways, the driving force for what happened there.
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
[X] Plan Finishing Touch and new Opportunities
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Don't forget to group these two in when you make a new tally:
- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
At the same time I am very happy but also it makes me very angry that only now, when it is almost impossible to come back, my plan is being valued... (which is proposed in the first post of this entire discussion) >:"v
In my opinion, some arguments such as:
Answering to:
They did a lot of damage at the beginning although I never said not to do LFTW... And I proposed:
[] Plan Step by Step
-[] [Professional] Survey the Wall
-[] [Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 3 of 3
-[] [Personal] Idols and Ancestors
-[] [Personal] Sea of Dreams
-[] [Cultivation] Bear God's Fury (6/3, sites irrelevant)
-[] [Cultivation] The Laughing Wind (7/3, Shattered Gaol)
-[] [Cultivation] Frozen Soul Serenade Successor Creation
Edit: Sorry for the post, it was just to allay my frustration of not having Bear Paw and not working on BKSD...
In my opinion, some arguments such as:
Answering to:
They did a lot of damage at the beginning although I never said not to do LFTW... And I proposed:
[] Plan Step by Step
-[] [Professional] Survey the Wall
-[] [Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 3 of 3
-[] [Personal] Idols and Ancestors
-[] [Personal] Sea of Dreams
-[] [Cultivation] Bear God's Fury (6/3, sites irrelevant)
-[] [Cultivation] The Laughing Wind (7/3, Shattered Gaol)
-[] [Cultivation] Frozen Soul Serenade Successor Creation
Edit: Sorry for the post, it was just to allay my frustration of not having Bear Paw and not working on BKSD...
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Considering that much of the core identity of our plans is around either We Are But Ripples and Bastion, which have been the points of contention, and FSS+ is basically mandatory, the only other option to replace would be LFWT. I think you can forgive us for making the assumption that that's what you were referring to.
So, I've seen a few comments on Bastion not fitting the turn or requiring a hostile/dangerous spirit to show up there isn't narrative space for. I kind of feel like people are missing the concept for the mechanics, but also being too rigid on the mechanics too, maybe?
With Bastion and spirits, I'm not sure strictly speaking the higher realm spirit involved needs to be, like, conscious or staring at us with an avatar or something? Conveniently, all dangerous environments are actually basically spirits(non-dangerous environments too). Now, obviously I think diffuse spirits that don't even, like, register the surroundings they're crashing into generally aren't going to be super responsive to us subtly singing "hey don't do that it makes me sad " at them. But broadly speaking, worth remembering that communing with a spirit doesn't require a spirit to actually converse with us, and a simple ask like "no ouchies pls" is potentially a simpler hurdle to mount than conversation, depending on the spirit. Basically, we should be able to see the tech in practice even without an identifiable walking talking grumpy spirit to mitigate.
Also seen arguments that Bastion doesn't fit with the Xuan Shi adventure because it wouldn't work on Kongyou. That's true -Kongyou isn't ignorant or indifferent, they're overtly malicious on purpose while understanding it's a dick move, the dick move being the point- but I think it also misses the conceptual underpinning of Bastion as a tech and the unreal place Kongyou's coming from.
Part of the tech's deal is it lends spirits a little sliver of human perspective to put the impact of their behaviour into a broader context, so they hopefully turn down the "casual proximity murder" dial. Kongyou's pretty knowledgeable about humans, but they're inexperienced with the actual human condition in actual living and breathing humans, because that's not the context of their experience. Being born from the Dream skews one's perspective quite a bit, like we saw with Sixiang having to grow to understand what death actually is/means. And this is where I think people are fixating on the mechanics too much.
Yeah, Kongyou doesn't have damaging environmental traits (so far as we know). But that just means we won't be targeting Kongyou with the technique. Conceptually, it's still totally reasonable for Kongyou to be impacted by the technique being used in their proximity. Not fully, maybe not even significantly, but even just a small tweak has the potential to be interesting and drag out information that gives us a more complete understanding of Kongyou's perspective. Which would be fun!
Basically, we've been shifting towards narrative treatment of arts and such for a reason. No need to cleave too closely to the strict, narrow mechanics of something when considering its relevance in a situation. Vibes have a power of their own. While there's no guarantee on any specific speculation on relevance I might come up with, like the Xuan Shi adventure or touching on Kongyou stuff, I don't foresee any real difficulty in finding somewhere for Bastion to show its stuff.
With Bastion and spirits, I'm not sure strictly speaking the higher realm spirit involved needs to be, like, conscious or staring at us with an avatar or something? Conveniently, all dangerous environments are actually basically spirits(non-dangerous environments too). Now, obviously I think diffuse spirits that don't even, like, register the surroundings they're crashing into generally aren't going to be super responsive to us subtly singing "hey don't do that it makes me sad " at them. But broadly speaking, worth remembering that communing with a spirit doesn't require a spirit to actually converse with us, and a simple ask like "no ouchies pls" is potentially a simpler hurdle to mount than conversation, depending on the spirit. Basically, we should be able to see the tech in practice even without an identifiable walking talking grumpy spirit to mitigate.
Also seen arguments that Bastion doesn't fit with the Xuan Shi adventure because it wouldn't work on Kongyou. That's true -Kongyou isn't ignorant or indifferent, they're overtly malicious on purpose while understanding it's a dick move, the dick move being the point- but I think it also misses the conceptual underpinning of Bastion as a tech and the unreal place Kongyou's coming from.
Part of the tech's deal is it lends spirits a little sliver of human perspective to put the impact of their behaviour into a broader context, so they hopefully turn down the "casual proximity murder" dial. Kongyou's pretty knowledgeable about humans, but they're inexperienced with the actual human condition in actual living and breathing humans, because that's not the context of their experience. Being born from the Dream skews one's perspective quite a bit, like we saw with Sixiang having to grow to understand what death actually is/means. And this is where I think people are fixating on the mechanics too much.
Yeah, Kongyou doesn't have damaging environmental traits (so far as we know). But that just means we won't be targeting Kongyou with the technique. Conceptually, it's still totally reasonable for Kongyou to be impacted by the technique being used in their proximity. Not fully, maybe not even significantly, but even just a small tweak has the potential to be interesting and drag out information that gives us a more complete understanding of Kongyou's perspective. Which would be fun!
Basically, we've been shifting towards narrative treatment of arts and such for a reason. No need to cleave too closely to the strict, narrow mechanics of something when considering its relevance in a situation. Vibes have a power of their own. While there's no guarantee on any specific speculation on relevance I might come up with, like the Xuan Shi adventure or touching on Kongyou stuff, I don't foresee any real difficulty in finding somewhere for Bastion to show its stuff.
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eh, not really? like LFWT is pretty much universally welcomed just like FSS+?
i want bastion, but wouldnt mind beargod, i only have problem with ripples, as i said earlier
I was not obligated to choose your option. I like BKSD, but just because you like it doesn't mean I had to share your priority. I like my own plans and we only have so much space.
I want to also cultivate SNR. I want to cultivate SSC. I want to cultivate FSS. I want to cultivate LFWT. I want to cultivate SoI. I want to cultivate BKSD. I want to cultivate UGM. I want to cultivate MoSS.
Unfortunately, we don't have 20 actions anymore. We can't do everything, at least in one turn.
Also, kind of an aside, but broadly speaking arguments that try to pair other cultivation projects with FSS+ irk me. As in, arguments that certain projects will aid/advance the themes going into the successor building process.
Trying to influence the process like that- and I think it generally comes from a genuine place of constructive thematic intentions- is misguided. Do we actually want FSS+ subject to that kind of last minute, blind, meta-tinkering? I think if we stop and think, we realize we don't. It's the wrong kind of stakes for a vote, and it invites undue toxicity into things. Also, if the "wrong" one wins, we'll be bitter about whatever thing we're convinced went horribly wrong because of it, forever. Better for FSS+ to stand distinctly on its own feet regardless of other cultivation taken in the turn.
Now, the other way around is a totally different story. Advocating for a certain cultivation project because you think it benefits from the context of FSS+ being done in the turn, or that you think would make for a good tonal or thematic continuation from FSS+ in the turn, is free and in the clear. Just, well, the distinction between this and the above can be a little unclear. Easy statements can be taken the wrong way(just look at the first sentence in this post and then the follow-up clarifying what I meant by it), so it's important we be charitable with one another.
Which goes double for me,everyone has to be double charitable to me I'll be putting in extra effort to stay cool and not jump to assumptions.
Trying to influence the process like that- and I think it generally comes from a genuine place of constructive thematic intentions- is misguided. Do we actually want FSS+ subject to that kind of last minute, blind, meta-tinkering? I think if we stop and think, we realize we don't. It's the wrong kind of stakes for a vote, and it invites undue toxicity into things. Also, if the "wrong" one wins, we'll be bitter about whatever thing we're convinced went horribly wrong because of it, forever. Better for FSS+ to stand distinctly on its own feet regardless of other cultivation taken in the turn.
Now, the other way around is a totally different story. Advocating for a certain cultivation project because you think it benefits from the context of FSS+ being done in the turn, or that you think would make for a good tonal or thematic continuation from FSS+ in the turn, is free and in the clear. Just, well, the distinction between this and the above can be a little unclear. Easy statements can be taken the wrong way(just look at the first sentence in this post and then the follow-up clarifying what I meant by it), so it's important we be charitable with one another.
Which goes double for me,
- Location
- Rivendell
After reading some of the arguments both for and against Raising the Bastion, the problem seems to be that we mostly just want deeper understanding and better communication with spirits out of it, which, as some people have accuratly pointed out, is not actually exactly what RtB does. It specifically mentions only mitigating higher realm spirits after all. However, there is one cultivation action that does exactly what we're now trying to use RtB for, and that is the trait increase of MoSS itself. It is perhaps less sexy due to being a simple level up without extensive flavor text, but it is not limited to only affecting spirits more powerful than us, it simply affects all spirits. It only suffers from the problem that no one really wants to vote for simple trait increases even in situations that would invite their use.
Has anyone asked in the discord if MoSS counts a Socisl Art and/or Spirit Seeker counts as a Social Trait?
[X] Plan Wherein Lies Meaning
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, Bastion is for better communication of spirits, to build upon Isolation IV and extend it to correct misunderstandings between humans and them. It specifically talks about giving them a stronger understanding of their effects in the human context.
For the mitigating higher realm spirits, that's only the MECHANICAL aspect of the project, not what the project actually meditates on. It's the consequence, not the cause.
Take Ripples for example. For the argument for it, people bring up its description for why she should do it.
Its meditations are on Isolation based on the dark Void of Lake Hei and the meaning behind it. Said meditations bring a new metaphor of Isolation with Lake Hei in it, which has the mechanical consequence of giving us Void, since Lake Hei is well, an infinite dark void.
It is unfair to say to Bastion only affects the negative effects of higher spirits while ignoring what the actual text for the project says and then doing the opposite for Ripples ie, using the actual text description too when arguing for it.
And even if you're going to focus on the mechanical part, Raising the Bastion is an Alteration of MoSS. I'm not sure about the previous system, but ever since the new system was introduced, Ling Qi always thinks of an Art as a whole, and how its techniques and her understanding of them play into that before the alteration. So picking Bastion will still focus on the thread of effective communication and understanding that MoSS has and our recent breakthrough to G5 have given us.
Quotes from previous art alterations since the introduction of the new system.
And Spirit Seeker VI is a social trait questline. If you check the front page, it's grouped with the other traits that our social arts level up. I fully expect it to disappear and be integrated into actions like the other social traits.
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"Comes back from weekend trip, gets hit in the face with a barrage of new posts."
Man, this voting stuff looks fascinating, but I have no damn idea how any of this works.
Man, this voting stuff looks fascinating, but I have no damn idea how any of this works.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Personally, I just find a plan I vibe with and vote for it. Also Yrs' newest threadmark explains all the rules.