Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think it's important to note also that we don't have to burn all our slots immediately?

Like, right now other than Zhengui and maybe us depending on how our liminal carver stuff works we don't really have anyone in particular. If we're trying to raise servants (with the relevant group probably being ones we're trying to train for Zhengui's temple) then that's going to take a couple of years to get them useful anyway. And it's likewise going to be a number of years before we're looking to expand further and recruit more vassals etc. (and when people we might be wanting to recruit from the Sect could potentially be looking at what to do now their service is over and they're maybe thinking about graduating).

I think that unless yrs gives us some immediate minions, it's probably going to be a number of years before we really start training people.
Well there's no sign that we need to get started on hiring right now, but we will want to select these students fast once the geomancer starts working with us. They've agreed to work for us for 10 years and train up to 6 people during that time, so if we want to get our money's worth we'll want to get those people fast so they get as close to the max 10 years of instruction as possible.
 
[X] Ten years of service from a Meng Geomancer, for construction and tutoring (Opens special options in fief construction. Zhengui gets ideas)
[X] Access to a Master Craftsmen in constructing a new instrument (Sets down the path to a new weapon talisman, focused on acquiring resonant materials)
 
Eh. If we have the teachings of Meng Geomancers to dangle in their faces, I can only assume we won't have any problems with filling those teaching slots.
 
The grounds of the Meng manor were beautiful, with serene reflective ponds full of water lilies and floating wooden shrines, lit by pale candles and soft blue ghost-lights. The manor itself was a lovely thing of crystal glass and fine wood with no seams or joins, as if the whole thing were grown rather than built. Meng Dan led Ling Qi along winding paths to an outdoor pavilion just outside the manor's eastern wing, a low porch with a roof overlooking the gardens. There were long tables filling the pavilion and lanterns hanging from the ceiling, and It seemed very much like the kind of place where a party would be held.
This is a nice preview of what Meng style architecture would tend to look like.
Lots of emphasis on natural beauty and gentle curves, though I would note that the water feature would actually be a relatively costly expense up here in Xiangmen compared to back in Meng home territory, in which case ghost lights and bottomless ponds come free of charge with a side order of drowning.


"Feel free to let your spirits roam," offered Meng Dan, sitting down at one of the tables. The soft orange glow from the lanterns reflected off the polished wood and gave the whole thing a homey glow, as if the pavilion were an island of warmth drifting on a serene sea of mist. "Though I would ask Sir Zhengui to restrain himself."
Now they're just advertising their traditionalist credentials, where your spirits...if they physically can fit, can participate in the diplomacy.

Not that most spirits would be interested, of course, but its gives them status.
Yinhui appeared across from him with a rustle like pages being flipped, and settled into a chair. Ling Qi gave a small nod of acknowledgement. The mist hissed and swirled as Zhengui materialized just outside the pavilion, his shell only around two meters wide. Hanyi appeared at Ling Qi's side in a shimmering veil of snowflakes, with her hands on her hips.
Fancy spawn in effects...wait, is Hanyi competing on her entrance style?
Because it sure looks like it
Sixiang manifested their physical body in the chair beside Yinhui at that moment, and immediately threw an arm around the other moon spirit's childlike shoulders. "Heya, little cuz. And book boy! You miss us?"
Yinhui[Deadpan]: "Oh no, an extrovert."

"Things have been less exciting, yes," chuckled Meng Dan.

Ling Qi gave Sixiang a look, which the muse responded to with an innocent smile.

"I'm sure you needed the rest," Ling Qi finally said with a sigh.

I think the Ling Qi AdventureTM​ is getting famous in certain circles.
"Most assuredly. I am only a frail scholar, after all." Meng Dan said lightly. "Would you care for refreshments, Baroness?"

Ling Qi stared at Meng Dan. Meng Dan's smile widened.
Yes, frail scholar.
Drank an entire army barracks under the table.
Very frail.

"If it's no trouble," responded Ling Qi. "It is one thing to hear of Xiangmen, but it is another to approach it."

"It is a wonder, isn't it?" said Meng Dan. He snapped his fingers, the sound echoing loudly in the mist, and Ling Qi sensed the movement of servants in the manor halls. "There are only a few other places in the Empire that can match it, I think. Shuilan, the Mountains of Flowers and Fruit, The Imperial City, and the Living Isle. I should like to see them all one day."
I'd think Lake Hei would likely have counted as a fifth if it wasn't much less friendly to human life.
"We've located our probable capital."

"The waterfall is huuuuge!" interrupted Hanyi.

"The lake is really nice, and the fires under the earth are good - not like the nasty poison fires," agreed Zhengui, settling on the ground with a thump.

"Has some real goodies tucked away, too," Sixiang chimed in with a grin.
Lake should make for some nice aquaculture too.
And now wondering just how huge the waterfall is, because that sounds impressively large.

"There have been a number of splits and new sects which were called heresies at the time of formation," interjected Yinhui quietly, somehow maintaining her dignity even while Sixiang played with her hair. "More specificity is needed."
Sixiang's gonna make her hair ridiculously fancy by the time the meeting is over. I know it.

Hmm, actually wonder how Zhengui would interpret the Renewal of belief systems.
"Yinhui is not wrong," Meng Dan said. "The largest split occurred under the rule of the Xi, which produced my own family's faith and the Pure Way of the Hui."

"It would be something older than that. Maybe not as far back as pre-imperial, but probably First Dynasty," Ling Qi said.

"Mm, records from then are... less accessible." explained Meng Dan, his smile briefly becoming a thoughtful frown. "I assume you aren't speaking of the Mason War split."

"...I don't think so," Ling Qi said after a moment. "Well, it's something I've only touched the edges of myself. Maybe next time we meet I'll be the one who can dispense some history."

Meng Dan put a hand over his heart. "Miss Ling, you must not court my heart so brazenly."

Ling Qi chuckled politely, ignoring Sixiang and their waggling eyebrows.

...I think if we produce detailed first hand accounts from Skelly Uncle he might legit propose.
He's a dedicated historian and history in that time period is an utter mess, with most surviving accounts likely blatantly biased or from outside perspectives.

Qi: "Yeah he can't be serious."
Sixiang: "I cannot believe this girl."
"Being serious though, Meng Dan - what is the Dreaming Way? What great spirit does it revere?"

Meng Dan's smile faded a touch. "It has none. There are a handful of ascended, thought of as teachers and torchbearers showing the way, but reverence isn't really the point."

"Well, what's the purpose then?" Ling Qi asked. "If it's not interceding for the favor of a god?"

"It's…" he trailed off thoughtfully. "Forgive me, Miss Ling, but I am not a monk or a teacher. It is difficult for one of middling devotion to explain properly."

"Ah, I'm sorry for putting you in a difficult position," apologised Ling Qi.

"No, no," he dismissed. "Let us see, I do not want to misrepresent us, but... in the eyes of the Dreaming Way, the material world is merely another layer of the liminal - a dream more solid and difficult to awake from. It is flawed and broken, corrupted from the intent of the Nameless. The Dreaming Way is a path to finding a true awakening - enlightenment, if you prefer. If enough people achieve this the Nameless may be reinvigorated, and their Great Dream made right."

Ling Qi frowned, considering his words. That sounded strange, but not particularly bad, though she supposed that depended on what you saw enlightenment as being.

"Isn't that like, stupid hard though?" Hanyi said. "Most humans are like, super weak, you'll never get enough to ascend."

"The truth of the Way and the truth of an individual cultivator are different things. Supposedly even a mortal can find enlightenment if they live a proper life under the strain my kin follow, but you are right that it is a distant dream at best," Meng Dan chuckled. "As I said, I am not personally devout. Perhaps you may request to speak with one more knowledgeable than I?"
Big infos here!
Ling Qi is having some trouble grasping transcendental faith over transactional faith, but I can extrapolate and speculate on a few things here, note, this is extrapolating from extremely few datapoints, not to be relied upon:

Pre Mason's War beliefs
-Unknown

The Yin/Yang symbol, Tsu establishing agriculture and the cycle of seasons suggest that a core element should be harmony of disparate elements.

Mason's War
-Yin branch
-Yang branch

The Mason's War now has a BIT more philosophical detail at what lies at the root of their divide. Rather than a simple Progressive vs Isolationist/Traditionalist, theres also a religious element.

The Progressives may have been linked with the Materialist side of their beliefs, with stone cities drawn from Celestial Peaks and metal tools drawn from the Thousand Lakes.

The Traditionalists may have considered the whole business as distracting and distancing from the pursuit of enlightenment, with backing from the Spiritualists.

End result is a bloody draw, the Materialist side 'lost' by default, since their goal was to promote change, and change didn't happen.

Imperial Conquest/Weilu Reign/Horned Lord vanishes/Weilu Vanishes

This whole stretch is a great big mystery, but its possible that they HAD achieved mass enlightenment and vanished, with the Horned Lord going first and leaving instructions on how to follow.
This also cored out the old faith, the most pious all basically got Raptured, the rest only knew they were onto something when they were all gone. Theres a total gap of records here, and Skellyuncle seems to date to this era.

Xi Era
-Meng Dreaming Way
-Hui Pure Way
-??? Weird Statue?

We have the Meng beliefs, which center around reaching enlightenment to penetrate through the material world and prod the Nameless into issuing patches for this buggy reality, as opposed to White ascension imposing a new Law top down as a Great Spirit. This may have some relation to the Moon Spirits' belief that they should discourage humans from becoming spirits, since it seems that you could enlighten without that.
This...does not sound like it'd be popular with the Imperial center, because no empire wants lots of people refusing to engage with material reality in favor of seeking enlightenment, though this is to be discouraged more than rooted out since its at least fairly passive.

We have patchwork views of Hui beliefs from people who hate them, and also the rants of one insane corpse immortal. Their Pure Way seeks to be as far from reality as possible, pursuing enlightenment through eliminating connection from reality.
This is a harmless philosophy for monks or ascetics.
This is a terrible philosophy for a ruler, because their response to the material world intruding is to get it to stop by the most expedient means possible. And also whoever in this belief system is involved in the material world would also tend to be the most morally deficient.

And then we got that statue heresy thing. Which we know had been rooted out at times. Need a refresher to speak with any confidence.

"A statement has been prepared," Yinhui said, sliding her a folded sheaf of paper from across the table.

Ling Qi picked it up gingerly, and felt her eyebrows rise at the number of spirit stones listed there. It was enough to make her personal cultivation expenses irrelevant for years, if focused on just that. But she had peeked into Cai Renxiang's planning, and knew that the costs of building and running early settlements far exceeded those expenses. Even considering that, it was a princely sum.
That is a lot of money, a good jumpstart. Infrastructure is expensive, and I have no doubt that Shenhua would want Renxiang to miss the opportunity to juggle long term viability against needing immediate cashflow and sustainability.

A lot of settlements are horribly planned simply because you need a wall right now, to protect your structures, and lack of budget means you get slums improvised outside that protection, before expansion has to deal with either removing them(costly, efficient long term, inhumane), improving them(very costly, efficient long term, humane), or just putting up another ring of walls around them and filling in the gaps(cheap, but horribly inefficient).

More money means we can get further ahead on the curve.
More expertise means we can change the shape of the curve by getting more for less.

"First, we offer a number of exclusive texts and melodies from the tradition of Grandmistress Lei. Not her works themselves, unfortunately, but those of musicians in the direct line of her descent - one of which you seemed to have acquired on your own." began Meng Dan.

The Forgotten Vale Melody, long since made a part of her, fueling the Mist of her domain. Ling Qi could think of nothing else that he could be referring to. "I'm surprised at such an offer, given what I know of your clan."

"Oh it was a bit of a fight," Meng Dan said lightly, brushing over it. "Nonetheless, we guarantee no reprisals. There are no complete arts among the offer, but a cultivator of your talent and stage will no doubt find insights among them."

Reading between the lines, these were probably the copied physical notes of other musicians and cultivators from which she could create or modify arts with relative ease. This was likely to give the more consrvative elements of the Meng clan some face in retaining their secrets. She was going to have to work on turning her arts into something wholly her own, though.

You know, this suggests that there might have been some grumpiness from the Meng about us knowing Forgotten Vale Melody.
The isolationists must be frothing at the mouth, this really adds oomph to the progressive faction.

These notes are guide and references to arts similar to FVM in quality, and it is very good in that respect.
Man, I wonder how bad they'd freak if we took Grandmistress Lei's works back at Hui Peng.
"Second, we offer the services of a Meng Geomancer for a period of ten years, fully paid for his time," Meng Dan continued. "He will offer aid in constructing settlements and shaping your land. He will also be authorized to share the same level of our knowledge which is granted to our own barons and viscounts, and will tutor up to six individuals in this knowledge."

That was a good offer - without the last part, she might worry that the Meng were intending to make Lady Cai dependent on them for maintenance and expansion. That they would explicitly not be sharing their full knowledge made her trust it more. Zhengui perked up a little at the mention of tutoring too.
Terraforming to viscount grade is precisely what we need, I dare say most sources would have put us on the hook to someone for maintenance regardless.

That and it'd be an interesting synergy with Zhengui's Garden project and Ling Qi's own Liminal Carver.

To elaborate on this a bit, you can think of each household as a cell, extending from Feng Shui principles.
-It takes in qi, with the flow of the wind and water, along with the light of the sun.
-It releases qi, washing out accumulated spiritual detritus to dissipate.
-Activities, people, spirits and formations of the household would each draw differently and vent differently. You want the right kinds and levels of energy in the right places, too much energy in the bedroom would give restless sleep, while too little in the study would make learning exhausting.
-You want to shape it such that the intake is gentle and buffered, rather than the full force of the outside world stampeding through your home and rendering you vulnerable to the elements.
-You want to shape it such that there is a stable flow, and no stagnancy where malign influences can become trapped or tangled within.

Not too complicated on an individual level, but now you have thousands of households all drawing in qi and venting it.
You need your spiritual sewage channels so they can vent the collective malice of a city to somewhere they can be dispersed - and just dumping it outside the wards is probably going to be feeding a mondo spirit to attack some day.
You need your power lines and aqueducts to feed your industries and formations.
You need to account for chunks being taken out and added in.

Whoever we pick to learn is going to be influential...and incredibly busy.
Preferably pick people in our household, and we definitely need to know enough to look over the work ourselves.
Its, incidentally a permanent, living promotional to Meng style geomancy, especially if trade picks up.
"Perhaps a little less personally exciting, we have a trade agreement," Meng Dan said, tapping one of the remaining contracts with his finger. "Under this agreement, all goods originating in your land will be tarif-free for a period of one hundred years, and receive preferential rates on all other tolls and taxes."

"It will probably be quite some time before we are producing anything worth trading." Ling Qi said dubiously.

"Ah, but as far as imperial law is concerned, goods from external polities originate with their first imperial 'buyer', being written with war plunder in mind," Meng Dan said. "A loophole likely to be closed in the future, if things go our way, but for now, useful, no?"

Ling Qi didn't exactly have a head for economics, but yes, she supposed she could see how that could be useful. It would encourage more traders at least, by cutting the costs of importing goods to the bone. It might make any efforts to open up Black Lotus pass again less useful, though, hurting her effort in the central valley. She waved him on.

This offer seems a little basic, even disregarding Black Lotus pass. Barrier free trade is actually more risky to us, Meng products would cheaply swamp local production in short order once it gets going, would make us a lot of money, but it'd also take more work to lift off production industries.

Trade won't start in significant volume for a time, we lack the infrastructure to carry much, and an influx of traders at an early juncture is going to take careful juggling because of the effect on local culture and wealth structures.

...and also we know Renxiang. She's going to file a form to close that loophole in all likelihood as soon as she notices.
He pursed his lips but gave a small nod. "Well, the Meng clan has a tradition of musicians, as you know. My Grandmother can offer the services of a master craftsmen, one of my great-uncles, who is a sixth realm specialized in instruments. You would need to provide the materials for this, though - Uncle is... eccentric and demands such from all his clients."

"Understandable," What upper realm didn't have eccentricities? She still wasn't sure what she was going to do about her flute, but she supposed this was an option. She had no idea yet what she would do about materials.

"Might be something for our trips," murmured Sixiang in her head.

"Um, maybe something from Momma?" Hanyi offered uncertainly.

On the surface, very appealing to have a 6th realm Instrument specialist do it, it'd probably be pretty close to the pre-threaded Caidress, though a lot of the advanced features likely just don't work until we catch up to it.

But as Sixiang and Hanyi raised - we don't have any plan for this at all. We'd be just winging it on materials, and I don't think we're going to be getting our hands on anything higher than fourth realm materials on short notice?

His skill would be wasted on us, much as it'd be a great advertisement to those with eyes to see.
"The last one?" Ling Qi said, not visibly acknowledging either. She glanced at the page, and gave a double take, it was largely blank.

"The last is simply a favor from the Meng clan, not one that is wholly unlimited, but you will have the promise that my Grandmother will work to bring the clan around to support you in an endeavor that requires political weight, so long as it is not directly contrary to our interests," Meng Dan said.

Ling Qi looked hard at the blank page, bearing only the seal and heraldry of the Meng clan. Such an open-ended offer could be very powerful… or ineffectual. It all depended on the situation in which she chose to use it. She almost smiled as she imagined accepting and then immediately calling it in for support against the Duchess.

That certainly fell outside the limits of a favor, but perhaps it could be useful on the matter of Black Lotus Pass, or if some difficulty came up during negotiations in the south.

Open favors are powerful things for the established.
But its more of a catch-all, they REALLY want the deal, so I suspect its there more as a show of sincerity than anything else.

Because we're too new a clan, with no foundation, theres no demand we CAN make which would truly strain such a favor.
 
Hello.
I just want to say that the Flute Crafter is more valuable then the music Notes and more so now that Ling Qi lost her flute. The only reason it's not going to happend is because, from Meta perspective, Notes are simply "give power/stuff now" and Flute is "new go-fetch-stuff sidequest that will give power/stuff later". And the idea coming here was "picking up reward" not "picking up more stuff to do".

Also are the money that were mention before included? Or are these two rewards insted of the money?
 
Eh. If we have the teachings of Meng Geomancers to dangle in their faces, I can only assume we won't have any problems with filling those teaching slots.
Absolutely, the discussion has been more about who, and why, to put into the curriculum.
I favour erring on the side of loyalty, others may prefer going for max talent and just get binding contracts.
But either way, that class is going to be full the second we want it to be.
 
Hello.
I just want to say that the Flute Crafter is more valuable then the music Notes and more so now that Ling Qi lost her flute. The only reason it's not going to happend is because, from Meta perspective, Notes are simply "give power/stuff now" and Flute is "new go-fetch-stuff sidequest that will give power/stuff later". And the idea coming here was "picking up reward" not "picking up more stuff to do".

Also are the money that were mention before included? Or are these two rewards insted of the money?
We're about to retool FSS, our main offensive art to update it to our level, this is on the same level of delayed reward as the flute. More, once you factor in that art modification and creation are necessary to advance further and we have no sources at all there.

Keeping in mind that talismans are severely limited by material, and we currently are looking at fourth realm ice as the only thing we could even guess at being able to reach.
 
I think it's important to note also that we don't have to burn all our slots immediately?

Like, right now other than Zhengui and maybe us depending on how our liminal carver stuff works we don't really have anyone in particular. If we're trying to raise servants (with the relevant group probably being ones we're trying to train for Zhengui's temple) then that's going to take a couple of years to get them useful anyway. And it's likewise going to be a number of years before we're looking to expand further and recruit more vassals etc. (and when people we might be wanting to recruit from the Sect could potentially be looking at what to do now their service is over and they're maybe thinking about graduating).

I think that unless yrs gives us some immediate minions, it's probably going to be a number of years before we really start training people.

Wasn't Qingee's 'lets make everyone cultivators' plan a few turns ago? Yrs could actually do that. They'd be reds, maybe a yellow. Plus aren't there guards that some of our girls have managed to hook? There's a few more chances for reds and yellows.

We could theoretically already have a bunch of minions but they're sorta more Mother's minions than anything else.

We could also use Mom to recruit, she's got her fingers on the pulse of the Sect town and might know a couple of people near the end of their sect contract willing to join up. And we might want her to do that anyways because we're going to the edge of the world and having families more aligned with us than CRX or GG would be pretty nice. (Not for anything nefarious but for when we actually split out into our fief)
 
It has been my hope that some of the servants, or possibly any children they have, will show enough talent to be worth turning into clan geomancers.
 
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Wasn't Qingee's 'lets make everyone cultivators' plan a few turns ago? Yrs could actually do that. They'd be reds, maybe a yellow. Plus aren't there guards that some of our girls have managed to hook? There's a few more chances for reds and yellows.

We could theoretically already have a bunch of minions but they're sorta more Mother's minions than anything else.

We could also use Mom to recruit, she's got her fingers on the pulse of the Sect town and might know a couple of people near the end of their sect contract willing to join up. And we might want her to do that anyways because we're going to the edge of the world and having families more aligned with us than CRX or GG would be pretty nice. (Not for anything nefarious but for when we actually split out into our fief)
There's no way any of are servants are already Yellow, personally I'd be surprised if any of our initial batch of servants are above Red 2. And even in the best case scenario mom's not going to be turning everyone into a cultivator. She's trying to build up a cadre of higher quality cultivator servants that any noble house needs, but most of our servants are still going to be mortals, that's just the way talent and resources work out in this world. It's possible they've pulled in some guards that are higher level, but I'd hope our mom would've mentioned someone snagging a Yellow, that's a pretty fucking big deal at our clan's stage of development, and they'd be our guard captain pretty much by default.
Absolutely, the discussion has been more about who, and why, to put into the curriculum.
I favour erring on the side of loyalty, others may prefer going for max talent and just get binding contracts.
But either way, that class is going to be full the second we want it to be.
It's fine to want to select for loyalty when possible, but the way several questers have just been throwing out lists of the handful of named characters that we might be able to fit in the class, plus some of our nameless servants since we don't actually have enough feasible named characters, seemingly without regard for whether any of those characters have the desire or ability to learn geomancy seems foolish to me. When taken together with your worries about 'outsiders' just coming to learn from the Meng and leaving once they've done that, it reminds me of the way we sabotaged ourself politically early in the quest by establishing a relatively small friend group and assuming everyone outside that friend group was untrustworthy or pointless to interact with.

It's just my opinion that we're way to small for 'keeping things in house' to be our primary concern, we're still recruiting said house. Are we expecting to have our current crop of maids learn how to be guards, farmhands, warding specialists, priests, crafters, apothecaries and every other specialized profession we need? A handful of them might have talent in some of those areas that we should encourage, the girl who set up Zhengui's shrine comes to mind, but there's no way we already have all the talented people we need to establish our fief. We are very much still in our initial recruitment phase so I don't see any reason we should be primarily trying to fill spots in this class from our tiny pool of current workers.

If we've got a servant or two with some cultivation talent, an interest in the subject, and they meet whatever standards this expert surely has then that's great, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be recruiting beyond that, and when we're recruiting we shouldn't be afraid to mention perks like this out of fear we'll get people who only care about that perk.
 
Fun Fact: Zeqing knew of the creator of FVM and attempted to ensnare him multiple times.

I think, specifically because Zeqing interacted directly with the creator of FVM, that we have an excellent narrative for FSS+

Our flute plays the role of the direct descendent of Grandmistress Lei
while our singing plays the role of Zeqing, sliding in between the Mist. Attempting to pull travelers from the path, and lead them astray.


It'd make for a weird dynamic where we're the traveler, the path, and the "way out" of the mist. Those that want to leave the mist better be sure they're not wandering straight into FSS+, because at least the Mist isn't that

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we do go that way, it's perfect for our Context Thief build. We bumped into one of the beings that was part of [descendent of Grandmistress Lei]'s story and became her disciple. Now we'll have second hand knowledge of an event in that person's life that the Meng probably don't even have! And it's not like we really understand the context, or even know the descendant's name! Wahahaha!

Can't wait to develop our own style just for us to be called heretics for not knowing almost anything about the context of the pieces we've jammed together wahaha

"How dare you! Where did you get that!"

"Jus' founddd it c: "
 
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It's fine to want to select for loyalty when possible, but the way several questers have just been throwing out lists of the handful of named characters that we might be able to fit in the class, plus some of our nameless servants since we don't actually have enough feasible named characters, seemingly without regard for whether any of those characters have the desire or ability to learn geomancy seems foolish to me. When taken together with your worries about 'outsiders' just coming to learn from the Meng and leaving once they've done that, it reminds me of the way we sabotaged ourself politically early in the quest by establishing a relatively small friend group and assuming everyone outside that friend group was untrustworthy or pointless to interact with.

It's just my opinion that we're way to small for 'keeping things in house' to be our primary concern, we're still recruiting said house. Are we expecting to have our current crop of maids learn how to be guards, farmhands, warding specialists, priests, crafters, apothecaries and every other specialized profession we need? A handful of them might have talent in some of those areas that we should encourage, the girl who set up Zhengui's shrine comes to mind, but there's no way we already have all the talented people we need to establish our fief. We are very much still in our initial recruitment phase so I don't see any reason we should be primarily trying to fill spots in this class from our tiny pool of current workers.

If we've got a servant or two with some cultivation talent, an interest in the subject, and they meet whatever standards this expert surely has then that's great, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be recruiting beyond that, and when we're recruiting we shouldn't be afraid to mention perks like this out of fear we'll get people who only care about that perk.
Please don't assume everyone with a different set of starting values is stupid.
Because pushing people into geomancy classes who have zero interest in them is stupid.
So in the same way i assume your idea of offering geomancy lessons as a potential perk for recruits does not mena just taping a "Meng Geomancy lessons available, contact Southern Emerald Seas Ling Clan for more info" on lamp post, please assume my intended ways of going about things are not the stupidest possible.

I have been pushing against putting CRX and GG in the classes myself.
My, list, of students so far is Ling Qi and Zhengui, see if Yu Nuan is interested, that is 2 to three out of 6 spots gone, find out if there is anyone talented among the servants who wants the opportunity (we probably have two to four years to see how things start going).
And if there is room left in classes after, maybe recruit.
I am willing to compromise the best possible talent in favour of having been with us from the start.
But if there is no interest, and some adequate talent, i am willing to go all new recruits if needed.
 
Please don't assume everyone with a different set of starting values is stupid.
Because pushing people into geomancy classes who have zero interest in them is stupid.
So in the same way i assume your idea of offering geomancy lessons as a potential perk for recruits does not mena just taping a "Meng Geomancy lessons available, contact Southern Emerald Seas Ling Clan for more info" on lamp post, please assume my intended ways of going about things are not the stupidest possible.

I have been pushing against putting CRX and GG in the classes myself.
My, list, of students so far is Ling Qi and Zhengui, see if Yu Nuan is interested, that is 2 to three out of 6 spots gone, find out if there is anyone talented among the servants who wants the opportunity (we probably have two to four years to see how things start going).
And if there is room left in classes after, maybe recruit.
I am willing to compromise the best possible talent in favour of having been with us from the start.
But if there is no interest, and some adequate talent, i am willing to go all new recruits if needed.
Did I say you were stupid? I didn't even say you were one of the people making those lists, and I do appreciate that you're not one of the people who thinks CRX has that mythical thing called 'free time.' I don't believe you're stupid, but I don't think it's uncharitable of me to characterize your worries about outside talent we attract leaving the way you described as overblown. Looking back over your arguments you seem open to the idea of 'outsourcing' if we can't find enough home grown talent for a couple years, but I don't think we've got any real chance of finding 3-4 suitable students in our current crop no matter how lucky we are, so we should put out feelers to attract new talent from the start.

And I mean, sure we can wait 2-4 years to fill out the class, but the expert isn't here to train 6 people for a full 10 years, they're here to work for us for 10 years and train up to 6 people during that time. If we drag our feet for 2-4 years we're losing a pretty hefty percentage of the total tutoring time available to us. Waiting 1 or even 2 years to be sure we get a good crop of students is one thing, but waiting as long as 4 is just wasteful.
 
Hello.
I just want to say that the Flute Crafter is more valuable then the music Notes and more so now that Ling Qi lost her flute. The only reason it's not going to happend is because, from Meta perspective, Notes are simply "give power/stuff now" and Flute is "new go-fetch-stuff sidequest that will give power/stuff later". And the idea coming here was "picking up reward" not "picking up more stuff to do".
I'm voting for notes not because its about a better option for Ling Qi, but because, frankly, we're building a music focused clan. The notes are something that will pay dividends for generations to come beyond Ling Qi's personal use. At minimum, its useful for our sisters, both the flesh-and-blood one and the two adopted ones.

Sure, there's a part of me that goes, "oooh nice, sixth realm flute maker," but it feels like the selfish option to me. Too personal, when we can build a better foundation for the clan, which I feel should be our focus.
 
Did I say you were stupid? I didn't even say you were one of the people making those lists, and I do appreciate that you're not one of the people who thinks CRX has that mythical thing called 'free time.' I don't believe you're stupid, but I don't think it's uncharitable of me to characterize your worries about outside talent we attract leaving the way you described as overblown. Looking back over your arguments you seem open to the idea of 'outsourcing' if we can't find enough home grown talent for a couple years, but I don't think we've got any real chance of finding 3-4 suitable students in our current crop no matter how lucky we are, so we should put out feelers to attract new talent from the start.

And I mean, sure we can wait 2-4 years to fill out the class, but the expert isn't here to train 6 people for a full 10 years, they're here to work for us for 10 years and train up to 6 people during that time. If we drag our feet for 2-4 years we're losing a pretty hefty percentage of the total tutoring time available to us. Waiting 1 or even 2 years to be sure we get a good crop of students is one thing, but waiting as long as 4 is just wasteful.
As far as i can tell, i am the one who has been bringing up seeking potential recruits among our servants, instead of every potential named character.
Which you described as "plus some of our nameless servants since we don't actually have enough feasible named characters, seemingly without regard for whether any of those characters have the desire or ability"
That is, at best, rather uncharitable read on the idea, and assumes that the people offering it have the be idiots by not caring about talent or interest of the people so assigned.

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And putting out feelers for cultivators before checking for potential recruits now, means we either ignore those already among us, or potentially recruit someone using the lessons as a carrot that might not actually be available.
Which, reasonable, it is faster way to get higher talent.
But as i said, i am willing to compromise on quality in favour of loyalty.
This is our home we are building, and we are not without enemies, i would not put it past those enemies to seek knowledge of our home for nefarious purposes.
Yes, it is unlikely, for large number of reasons, both in and out of quest, but we already had someone subverting the imperial mail system and now about to get into hot water over it.
 
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As far as i can tell, i am the one who has been bringing up seeking potential recruits among our servants, instead of every potential named character.
Which you described as "plus some of our nameless servants since we don't actually have enough feasible named characters, seemingly without regard for whether any of those characters have the desire or ability"
That is, at best, rather uncharitable read on the idea, and assumes that the people offering it have the be idiots by not caring about talent or interest of the people so assigned.

edit-
And putting out feelers for cultivators before checking for potential recruits now, means we either ignore those already among us, or potentially recruit someone using the lessons as a carrot that might not actually be available.
Which, reasonable, it is faster way to get higher talent.
But as i said, i am willing to compromise on quality in favour of loyalty.
This is our home we are building, and we are not without enemies, i would not put it past those enemies to seek knowledge of our home for nefarious purposes.
Yes, it is unlikely, for large number of reasons, both in and out of quest, but we already had someone subverting the imperial mail system and now about to get into hot water over it.
I suppose my hostility mainly comes from the list making. Even if people don't mean 'I expect that X character or person from Y category of people is locked into this spot' it looks that way to me, especially when there's no spots set aside for the expectation we need to search for more people. And I don't mean we should put out feelers before checking for talent/interest close by, but I'd like it to be roughly concurrent. Whether it's determining talent or attracting & vetting experts we aren't going to manage either overnight, so we should get started on both as soon as possible.

And you've already heard my take on loyalty. I'm with CRX on that topic "We are capable of earning such loyalty with time." Which doesn't mean I think there's no need to check for spies and saboteurs, just that that's a manageable risk.
 
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I suppose my hostility mainly comes from the list making. Even if people don't mean 'I expect that X character or person from Y category of people is locked into this spot' it looks that way to me, especially when there's no spots set aside for the expectation we need to search for more people. And I don't mean we should put out feelers before checking for talent/interest close by, but I'd like it to be roughly concurrent. Whether it's determining talent or attracting & vetting experts we aren't going to manage either overnight, so we should get started on both as soon as possible.

And you've already heard my take on loyalty. I'm with CRX on that topic "We are capable of earning such loyalty with time." Which doesn't mean I think there's no need to check for spies and saboteurs, just that that's a manageable risk.
I don't exactly like the lists either, that still does not mean people need to be treated as idiots.

Yes, we probably are capable of earning loyalty, i have already said the risks are minimal.
The problem is that starting both at the same time can easily lead to having too many recruits, and then either having to tell someone the things they signed up for is no longer available, or to someone who has been with us longer that some newcomer gets what they were working towards (assuming we tell anyone about the geomancy classes, which we might not, but then it would be hard to find wether people have interest over it without telling them something).
Though i would point out that the situation where CRX recruited us was not something we are likely replicate for each recruit if we try to find 3 to 4 cultivators to put into geomancy classes.

Anyway, i don't think your plan is unreasonable, it is quite effective in getting the most out of the geomancy classes and getting our home constructions moving faster.
It is just not the one i support, because i am starting from different position on somethings, and i would hope you are willing to see why some people might choose different plans (like offering GG/CRX some advanced geomancy classes, because it is a nice thing to do to our friends.)
 
Trading slots around would be troublesome, they granted it to us, not so much to gift it around. I can see stretching that to cover someone working under GG or CRX since we currently share a city, but further than that would be tricky.
 
I'm sure CRX and GG can find their own geomancers.
Also, i am liking the idea of having otherwise fairly imperial style fief, except the Ling Qi clan home is somekind of neo Weilu/Meng labyrinth of mist and forest and ice that stands apart from everyone else in style.
 
I'd think Lake Hei would likely have counted as a fifth if it wasn't much less friendly to human life.
Don't forget the Grave, also plausible Dan's comment for Zhengui to show restraint is so he doesn't go munching on the interesting new furniture and things that don't look like furniture but are absolutely there for aesthetic prop. Oh and uncle skelly would be a wonderful source, just mind that he's practitioner of the Art of Lying to the Face of God, and therefore about as reliable as the old spirits who lived in that era.
 
I am deeply against putting Ling Qi in the geomancy class... if Zhengui goes why should LQ go?
We have to learn to relegate and specialize in what LQ is very good at...
 
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