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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Alright, hear me out. Our geomancy class should look something like:
-Ling Zhengui
-Ling Qi
-Fefe's Friend whose name escapes me, and that we've managed to adopt so he can avoid dynastic politics and that way Fefe's mistress' friend is her friend's mistress and Fefe's friend remains close by.
-CRX' candidate (A slot or two for CRX to trade or use as she sees fit, for more clout with her because she can trade it on for more clout with someone else)
-GG's candidate (as above)
-a red or yellow we can recruit from within our household.
 
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CRX and GG are perfectly capable of getting their own geomancers.
It is way too early to talk about adopting the lad, assuming he even wants to be adopted.
Maybe he decides to become a sect lifer instead.
 
Yeah, logistically the geomancy is kind of a pain since we're lacking the clan development to have a good selection of appropriately levelled and interested loyal candidates. Really we'd want to have a few scions from our clan, and a few established servants that seemed sound.

As it is though, we're heavily leaning on Zhengui from our family, and haven't even started to vet and raise servants yet. And even once we start them on cultivation many of them probably won't be suited to geomancy, and getting them to a level where they can actually contribute usefully will take years, even with us investing heavily.
 
I'm happy to take a gamble on couple servants.
They know where they came from, and i think being grateful for Ling Qi, and especially Ling Qinge, is probably going to go far on loyalty department, as is sponsoring them and their friends for early cultivation.
That said, the main repositories for the geomancy knowledge is going to be Zhengui and Ling Qi i think, if we can get couple geomancers into the clan who can do stuff without our supervision, that would be great, but not critical.
 
I'm not necessarily gonna say we SHOULD do this, and frankly probably it's so against Ling Qi's nature that we might not even be ABLE to do it, but uh, in theory we could go "joining up and learning from this master Meng geomancer requires marrying Ling Yu Nuan" to make it much harder to jump ship afterward.
 
[X] Notes and Writings from Master musicians of the Meng (New options and projects for creating and modifying arts)

[X] Ten years of service from a Meng Geomancer, for construction and tutoring (Opens special options in fief construction. Zhengui gets ideas)
 
Valmond said:
Recruiting someone with a "you get lessons from a Meng geomancer" is going to draw in lot of young ambitious geomancers.
Who, if not vetted very carefully, are quite likely to then jump ship and find safer, better paying, work somewhere else.
I'd rather start out by picking people already loyal to us.
Also, Ling Qi probably should be in those classes, mainly because she is going to be the most constant member of the clan and therefore the best way to ensure we can keep the knowledge safe and pass it on.
Maybe see if Yu Nuan has any talent or interest at geomancy?
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Contracts are a thing here. If these guys want to break whatever contract they have and piss of someone who's as closely connected to the rulers of a province as we are, then that'll be pretty funny.
Valmond said:
I'm happy to take a gamble on couple servants.
They know where they came from, and i think being grateful for Ling Qi, and especially Ling Qinge, is probably going to go far on loyalty department, as is sponsoring them and their friends for early cultivation.
That said, the main repositories for the geomancy knowledge is going to be Zhengui and Ling Qi i think, if we can get couple geomancers into the clan who can do stuff without our supervision, that would be great, but not critical.
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That might be something to think about, but first we need to see if any of our servants have half-decent potential. I want to say there's at least one from one of our mom's interludes, but I'm not sure.
 
[X] Notes and Writings from Master musicians of the Meng (New options and projects for creating and modifying arts)

[X] Ten years of service from a Meng Geomancer, for construction and tutoring (Opens special options in fief construction. Zhengui gets ideas)
 
another way of doing the class is just doing all in-house Ling Clan.
Zhengui
LQ
Qingge
Yu Nuan
House Talent
House Talent (or Su Ling c: )

The Meng are grounded in Music and so are 3 outta 4 of that list. Grounding our own clan in Expression and Geomancy would be an interesting place to come from, relating whatever actions you're doing back to the home you're building.
 
[x] Notes and Writings from Master musicians of the Meng (New options and projects for creating and modifying arts)
[x] Access to a Master Craftsmen in constructing a new instrument (Sets down the path to a new weapon talisman, focused on acquiring resonant materials)
Geomancy has enough votes so I'm voting for the payment for Ling goods going to the Ling. Territory work's had plenty of focus and will have plenty more in future. We're investing in the clan as well as the land and that needs a properly kitted out matriarch!
 
Since it looks like Lei notes is going to win I'm wondering what kind of projects we might unlock from them. If we assume they'll give insights into at least some of the themes in FVM like mist, phantoms, journeys, endings, loneliness, loss and lost etc. there's a lot that's applicable to our current Arts. It together with the Meng Geomancer could go a long way for radically changing WHR with the already existing Garden of Mists Project. Maybe it'll also give a bonus to things like PLR's Phantasmal Mastery and BKSD's own phantoms, maybe we can turn SNR into a mist rather than Lake theme, add a ton to LFWT's journey themes with it immunity to binds/confusion effects, add some isolation themes to FSS+. FVM is really the core from which all our other themes branched out of and the wider school of Grandmistress Lei is bound to have parallels for practical every Art we cultivate.
 
Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Mar 17, 2022 at 8:16 PM, finished with 213 posts and 133 votes.
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JowKeen said:
another way of doing the class is just doing all in-house Ling Clan.
Zhengui
LQ
Qingge
Yu Nuan
House Talent
House Talent (or Su Ling c: )

The Meng are grounded in Music and so are 3 outta 4 of that list. Grounding our own clan in Expression and Geomancy would be an interesting place to come from, relating whatever actions you're doing back to the home you're building.
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Not trying to pick on you in particular but I'm baffled by how much this 'in house' thinking is coming up.. Keeping things 'in house' is for people who actually have a house. Our 'house' is the equivalent of some temporary shelter Bear Grylls set up in the wilderness. We should be trying to grow our house and tie additional talent to it, not smother it by only trusting the handful of people we already know to do things. We're not living in some lawless Mad Max world where there's nothing stopping unfamiliar people from stabbing us in the back. If we have an employment contract written up that ties these apprentices to our fief for a few decades that's enforceable even ignoring the fact that we're tied to CRX. And even aside from that, considering the circles we move in anyone we hire for anything is going to want to leave a good impression if they care about their career. We're also talking about a timescale that's at least a decade. If we can't come up with ways to entice talent into staying by then we've fucked up badly.

Zhengui is a shoe in.
Ling Qi is a possibility, but we've got a lot of potential fields of study.
Qingge is Red 1 and extremely unlikely to rise very far. Mom is great, but having a genuine 4th or 5th realm expert tutor her is a waste their time and hers.
We have no indication that Yu Nuan cares about geomancy, though if she does that's definitely something we should check on.
And so far our 'house talent' is a bunch of mortals and maybe one confirmed baby cultivator hopeful IIRC. If she or others are decently talented there's something to be said for giving the geomancer someone who can be trained almost from scratch to their specifications, but if they're not particularly talented it's an insult and waste of their time.

Anywhere from 2-4 of the spots we have are probably best to fill with newly recruited talent, and we've got some excellent signing bonuses to attract them with. Expecting betrayal around every corner is only sabotaging ourselves.
 
memoryofglory said:
Not trying to pick on you in particular but I'm baffled by how much this 'in house' thinking is coming up.. Keeping things 'in house' is for people who actually have a house. Our 'house' is the equivalent of some temporary shelter Bear Grylls set up in the wilderness. We should be trying to grow our house and tie additional talent to it, not smother it by only trusting the handful of people we already know to do things. We're not living in some lawless Mad Max world where there's nothing stopping unfamiliar people from stabbing us in the back. If we have an employment contract written up that ties these apprentices to our fief for a few decades that's enforceable even ignoring the fact that we're tied to CRX. And even aside from that, considering the circles we move in anyone we hire for anything is going to want to leave a good impression if they care about their career. We're also talking about a timescale that's at least a decade. If we can't come up with ways to entice talent into staying by then we've fucked up badly.

Zhengui is a shoe in.
Ling Qi is a possibility, but we've got a lot of potential fields of study.
Qingge is Red 1 and extremely unlikely to rise very far. Mom is great, but having a genuine 4th or 5th realm expert tutor her is a waste their time and hers.
We have no indication that Yu Nuan cares about geomancy, though if she does that's definitely something we should check on.
And so far our 'house talent' is a bunch of mortals and maybe one confirmed baby cultivator hopeful IIRC. If she or others are decently talented there's something to be said for giving the geomancer someone who can be trained almost from scratch to their specifications, but if they're not particularly talented it's an insult and waste of their time.

Anywhere from 2-4 of the spots we have are probably best to fill with newly recruited talent, and we've got some excellent signing bonuses to attract them with. Expecting betrayal around every corner is only sabotaging ourselves.
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I was fairly explicit on why i was preferring to keep it in house.
People who are recruited through tempating shiny, can be tempted away once they acquire the shiny.
Few decades is not that huge a time scale for cultivators, i'd rather have people who could be hoped to remain for generations.
That said, if we don't have anyone within the next year or two showing appropriate talent, then outsourcing for talent is areasonable idea.
 
Valmond said:
I was fairly explicit on why i was preferring to keep it in house.
People who are recruited through tempating shiny, can be tempted away once they acquire the shiny.
Few decades is not that huge a time scale for cultivators, i'd rather have people who could be hoped to remain for generations.
That said, if we don't have anyone within the next year or two showing appropriate talent, then outsourcing for talent is areasonable idea.
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That's like saying we're going to abandon CRX the moment a better offer shows up or that Li Suyin would abandon the Sect if she received a better offer. Being taught by the Meng expert is not the only reason to stay with us, and if we screw up enough they don't see the benefits of staying with us and the dangers of pissing us off, and haven't built personal ties with them, then we kind of deserve to lose them.

If a budding young geomancer joins up with us to learn from the Meng expert and abandons us the second they can, we've got the resources to basically sink their career. And who's going to have the resources or desire to tempt them away? The Meng practice a very specific method of geomancy that's almost completely opposed to the teachings of the more prevalent Imperial style. Short of getting recruited by the Meng themselves, which would be against the spirit of this agreement, working for a direct vassal of the Cai is just about the best they can hope for.
 
memoryofglory said:
That's like saying we're going to abandon CRX the moment a better offer shows up or that Li Suyin would abandon the Sect if she received a better offer. Being taught by the Meng expert is not the only reason to stay with us, and if we screw up enough they don't see the benefits of staying with us and the dangers of pissing us off, and haven't built personal ties with them, then we kind of deserve to lose them.

If a budding young geomancer joins up with us to learn from the Meng expert and abandons us the second they can, we've got the resources to basically sink their career. And who's going to have the resources or desire to tempt them away? The Meng practice a very specific method of geomancy that's almost completely opposed to the teachings of the more prevalent Imperial style. Short of getting recruited by the Meng themselves, which would be against the spirit of this agreement, working for a direct vassal of the Cai is just about the best they can hope for.
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Well, if the Empress suddenly arrived and provided a better offer, who knows.
CRX is in a happy position to have very little potential competition.
And while we did join her for the things she can provide us, we also do like her overall goals, so we are not here just for a shiny.

Think of it like this, we are adopting Yu Nuan, and we could decide to pay her debt.
But she did not join us because of that (and she was not even aware of our future riches when asking to join our clan), and if we had adverticed our riches and people asked to be adopted knowing it, we would be lot more hesitant to bring them in.

Also, i think you are over estimating our pull, and underestimating the value of geomantic secrets the Meng are providing for a budding talent.
Or even just the knowledge they would gain while about our fief.
We are not recruiting random people here, these are the people who would be helping to build our home, to lay the foundations of our stronghold, potentially for centuries to come, and i value the ability to trust the people doing that as much as possible very highly.
 
Valmond said:
I was fairly explicit on why i was preferring to keep it in house.
People who are recruited through tempating shiny, can be tempted away once they acquire the shiny.
Few decades is not that huge a time scale for cultivators, i'd rather have people who could be hoped to remain for generations.
That said, if we don't have anyone within the next year or two showing appropriate talent, then outsourcing for talent is areasonable idea.
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Contracts are a thing and in a universe were the law can be more binding than any steel chain I am unconcerned about losing talent through temptation.
 
Valmond said:
Well, if the Empress suddenly arrived and provided a better offer, who knows.
CRX is in a happy position to have very little potential competition.
And while we did join her for the things she can provide us, we also do like her overall goals, so we are not here just for a shiny.

Think of it like this, we are adopting Yu Nuan, and we could decide to pay her debt.
But she did not join us because of that (and she was not even aware of our future riches when asking to join our clan), and if we had adverticed our riches and people asked to be adopted knowing it, we would be lot more hesitant to bring them in.

Also, i think you are over estimating our pull, and underestimating the value of geomantic secrets the Meng are providing for a budding talent.
Or even just the knowledge they would gain while about our fief.
We are not recruiting random people here, these are the people who would be helping to build our home, to lay the foundations of our stronghold, potentially for centuries to come, and i value the ability to trust the people doing that as much as possible very highly.
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The Empress could provide a better offer, but she, and almost everyone else who could, won't. The Peaks have their own style of Geomancy that uses principles almost directly opposed to the Meng's style and most of the Empire follows their example. The Golden Fields, Savage Seas, and Western territories are environments alien enough that trying to do things Meng style would be an exercise in futility. Meng style geomancy is mainly going to be sought after among the Meng and their vassals. There's other places it could be useful of course. Weilu traditionalists and old clans in other parts of the province could want them, and the Ebon Rivers and Thousand Lakes might have use for non-Peaks geomancy, but compared to Peaks style it's just not as sought after.

We may not have entirely joined up with CRX because of her material wealth and political power, but without those we might have joined the Sect instead. Limiting ourselves to those who want to join us primarily for ideological reasons would be hamstringing our recruitment efforts. Greed is a perfectly acceptable motivator, provided it's not the only one and we make sure to provide prosperity and opportunities for our subordinates. Joining up with us means being paid more and granted more resources than just about any new Baron house can provide. it means a direct connection to the Cai. We have ties to the Bao, the Bai, the Argent Peak Sect, and beyond. For the more open minded we even have connections beyond the Empire where they can potentially study entirely new methods of geomancy.

And it's not like I'm advocating we grab some random people without investigating them or anything. If we pick up a bunch of people that leave at the first opportunity that's on us for misjudging them or mismanaging our fief enough that it's not an attractive proposition for them.
 
I think it's important to note also that we don't have to burn all our slots immediately?

Like, right now other than Zhengui and maybe us depending on how our liminal carver stuff works we don't really have anyone in particular. If we're trying to raise servants (with the relevant group probably being ones we're trying to train for Zhengui's temple) then that's going to take a couple of years to get them useful anyway. And it's likewise going to be a number of years before we're looking to expand further and recruit more vassals etc. (and when people we might be wanting to recruit from the Sect could potentially be looking at what to do now their service is over and they're maybe thinking about graduating).

I think that unless yrs gives us some immediate minions, it's probably going to be a number of years before we really start training people.
 
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