Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[LittenLeKitten]

[] Dreaming of Family (AKA Plan dump everything into Community Conceptual Project)

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Hmm, I like the idea behind it, but I think it can be tweaked just a little to make it even better.

As it stands, the Su Ling thing stands out like a sore thumb in there. The benefits of doing it this turn aren't really capitalized, and it's more guiding Su Ling on a journey of self-discovery than anything to really do with Community.

Additionally, I see no reason why we need to dump everything for Community in our cultivation; just taking (and doubling) Dreaming from SSC and one other Community boosting project gets us to Community IV, which seems like enough to me. No need to overshoot at the moment.

With all that said, how about this:

[] Dreaming of Family V2
- [] Adoption Vetting
- [] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] Serpent Whisperer
- [] Dreaming (9/3)
- [] Raising the Bastion, Argent Vent (6/5)
- [] Its Depths Without End, Mirror Basin, Argent Domain (6/3)

I hope I did all my math right, or this'll be embarrassing.

Anyway, we have Adoption Vetting and the Hou Gift, which, as far as I saw, most people think we should definitely do this turn. Serpent Whisperer is for best snek's reaction to the obvious, and because hanging out with our best friend fits a little better into a Community-focused turn than adventures with Su Ling. Sorry, Su Ling, definitely next time.

Dreaming is for the +2 to Community, plus other bonuses and base cultivation is always nice.

Raising the Bastion was picked over Garden of Mists because someone with a big, wrinkly brain pointed out that working on MoSS would be good for the scouting/surveying trip that we have to do this turn. Additionally, because I'm just not a big fan of doing Garden of Mists before the rest of the projects in WHR.

Finally, Its Depths Without End is more for a fitting tie-in with Meizhen than anything else, and could technically be replaced well enough by any other SNR project, though this one seemed the most fitting.

So, yeah. TL;DR: Friends, Family, and Finances!

 

[AbeoLogos]

Going to approach BKSD slightly differently, here.

Xiangmen, Fortress of Tsu Pt. 1: Before the ravening of the Gods, Xiangmen stood uncaring, and in the trunk sheltered all of the people of the Emerald Seas. Against the Gods stood the Diviner, who would see that man was never subjugated again. Alters the Eagle God's Defiance technique. Advances the Motion and Home projects by one step. (0/5)

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I get the logic people are advancing that we're going to the Xiangmen, so now is a good time for the project, but I don't personally see it. The auction has all sorts of themes related to culture, history, art, and even skullduggery with the Diao Hualing questline stuff. But the auction doesn't related very well to the martial context of the project/history, or really the unity aspect either, since it's going to be a bunch of people squabbling over loot from an enemy with a very Emerald Seas/human origin. It's awkward.

Xiangmen, Fortress of Tsu fits a lot better with something like hanging around during the formation of the Horned Legion that Cai Shenhua is forming under the White Plumes. The nobles of modern Emerald Seas pooling soldiers at Xiangmen for unified defense of the province is a lot more in keeping with the themes and ideas behind the project, and related to Ling Qi's meditations on how the past informs the present. The name of the military force, "Horned Legion", even points to these kinds of issues being one of the drivers behind its formation.

Fixating on the Xiangmen project in BKSD just because we're going to the tree this turn is a mistake, because the context of our visit doesn't serve the narrative of the art project very well. There are better opportunities coming up in the near future.

 

[FallenPears]

Honestly I can't help but feel all this talk of builds is kind of missing the point at the moment. Certainly we shouldn't let Ling Qi become weak, but we don't have an upcoming tournament or direct combat trial deciding our future at the moment (which is fairly unique in this quests history). Founding territory will be dangerous, but we won't be alone and I would bet duelling ability wouldn't be as high a priority.

What we should be focusing on is Way building, and whether we want arts to contribute to that in the long term. Builds and techniques are ephemeral, but our Way is a lot more permanent.

Regarding FSS+, we have the Endings insight, do we want to build on that? Pros, cons? That seems more important to me.

 

[Swantree]

Hey question for the thread, but what update did we get our dress?

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@RoadrunnerJ
We had two dresses iirc one when we got gutted the first time by Lingling and the one when we went to Renren. Here's the current one

 

[HeWhoLurks]

Argh, too many of the professional and personal actions look appealing.
Adoption Vetting is important; Paying respects gets us more Jiao & Xin along with moonboy, and gives us a chance to raise rep with argent sect which may be important later on; Hou Zhuang's gift seems like a very useful action chain; Idols and Ancestors is a very meaningful tieback to Zeqing and likely our last time to be able to see the peak; Little workshop of wonders means more Suyin; Weaver of Tails can really help out Su Ling, plus it's a dream adventure; Serpent Whisperer has Best Snek.

 

[AbeoLogos]

Honestly I can't help but feel all this talk of builds is kind of missing the point at the moment. Certainly we shouldn't let Ling Qi become weak, but we don't have an upcoming tournament or direct combat trial deciding our future at the moment (which is fairly unique in this quests history). Founding territory will be dangerous, but we won't be alone and I would bet duelling ability wouldn't be as high a priority.

What we should be focusing on is Way building, and whether we want arts to contribute to that in the long term. Builds and techniques are ephemeral, but our Way is a lot more permanent.

Regarding FSS+, we have the Endings insight, do we want to build on that? Pros, cons? That seems more important to me.

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There is a frontline war arc coming up where we'll be attached to Cai forces on the border, probably under Xia Ren with the White Plumes. But we don't know when that's actually happening, and I agree with you that sorting out the direction we want to head in should be our primary focus.

As for FSS+, I don't think it's even a choice. If you gain an insight from mastering an art, and then you make a successor to that art, the successor should be rooted in the insight in some significant way. The insight is what the art means to you. It doesn't make sense to not build on it. Imo, it shouldn't be possible not to.

 

[qazcdewsx]

My priorities for this turn
Adoption Vetting: The request made of you is a very serious one. You need to give it the consideration it deserves. Take some time to speak with Yu Nuan, introduce her to your family, and perhaps make a little trip to see how she holds up in your presence. [Single Instance Exploration 1d100+20 Base. Gain Location Thunder Palace. Reward thresholds at 40, 60, 80, 100. Characters: Yu Nuan, Ling family)
We decided we're going to adopt Yu Nuan but we still need to put the work in for it. The sooner we do the sooner they can start helping with things.

Weaver of Tails: You've spoken with Su Ling about her troubles, and though you can't give her answers, you can give her a method of better exploring her own thoughts. Take her with you through the labyrinth gate and see where the foxfire leads. (+1 to Dream and Motion Projects. +1 to Dreamwalker Trait on completion. Characters Sixiang, Su Ling)
Su Lings having trouble with her heritage again and the last time this happened and we didn't help she mutilated one of her tails. We should be around to help her with this.

For our cultivation I really want The Opened Vault now. Its something we definitely want and the auctions just a good opportunity to practice using it. The auctions also a good place to start looking at Hanyi's concert's sabotage since we're far more likely to run into someone who was involved in Xiangmen than we are when we're at the sect. and I think the opened vault would be useful for acquiring evidence.

Things I want before we leave the sect
Yrs said we had 6 months till we leave which I think is 6 turns.

Little Workshop of Wonders: You've drifted apart from Suyin a little and your time at the Sect is coming to a close. Spend some time with one of your oldest friends, and look on what she has achieved. The Elixir recipe you discovered is a good place to begin the conversation. {+1 XP to Mystery and Want Projects. Characters Li Suyin, Bao Qingling)
I like Suyin and want to work on that breakthrough elixir

Paying Respects: The Argent Peak Sect has been your home for two years now, and though you are growing apart from it, you still feel that connection. To it's disciples, to its Elders, to the caves and the vents and the trials. Spend some time showing your gratitude for lessons and connections [Maintains current relations with the Argent Sect Peak Sect on departure. 40% Chance to boost reputation with Argent Peak Sect by 1, and ???. Characters: Sima Jiao & Xin, Liao Zhu, various. +1 to Isolation and Power projects undertaken)
The sect has been an excellent opportunity for us and at least 1 of or friends is looking to stay here long term (Suyin) so I want to maintain a good relationship with it. It's going to remain be very involved with the war so even though we're leaving we might still be expected to coordinate with it. A better relationship would help with that. Maintains current relations with the Argent Sect Peak Sect on departure also implies that is we don't do this at some point our rep with them would drop once when we leave. I also want to have the option of sending Biyu here and a good relationship would help with that but that's really long term.
Don't suppose anyone has any guesses on that the ???? is?

Idols and Ancestors: It has been awhile now, since Zeqing found her End. In many ways both you and Hanyi have grown. It is time to take a little time aside to walk the high mountain peaks, to think and listen and remember. [Must be taken with the Frozen Soul Serenade Successor project. Character's Hanyi and Sixiang
I want an FSS successor so we need to do this at some point.

I also want Soul of Ice either before or on the same turn that we start the FSS successor . The broader understanding of ice and winter it seems like its offering just sounds like it would be a good thing to have whilst developing our FSS successor

Based on this I think I'd want something like
[] Plan: Come up with better plan name
- [] [Cultivation] Hidden Scribe (10/8 Silent stones 11/8)
- [] [Cultivation] It's Depths Without End 4/3 (Mirror basin site + Argent Domain 6/3)
- [] [Cultivation] Opened Vault 7/5 (Argent Vent 8/5)
- [] [Professional] Adoption Vetting
- [] [Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] [Personal] Weaver of Tails

I think we want to do Hou Zhuang's Gift since it will help us with our job. It could also pair well with investigating the concert sabotage and the opened vault project.
I'm fairly flexible on the other 2 Cultivation actions. I like Hidden Scribe because I think it could work It well with he other actions I want to take would also rank up the mystery and causality projects which is nice and a chance of more moon attention is never a bad thing.
It's Depths Without End is in there because I want to improve our understanding of endings before working on FSS. The only other project we have that can do that at the moment is soul of ice and I don't think that really fits in this turn.

Mirror Basin and argent domain are on It's Depths Without End since it's the only project that can be doubled without omake points. Argent vents and silent stones are just there because I wanted to put them somewhere so people could see how far away from doubling they were.

 

[Doramas]

This is just wishful thinking, but I would really like if the Weaver of Tails action leads to Ling Qi adopting Su Ling into the family. Well, not immediately adopting her, Su Ling isn't a pokmon we are trying to catch. But we could have a talk where we propose the idea. I imagine it going more or less like this:

LQ: You know, there is this girl called Yu Nuan who wants to be adopted into the Ling clan. I'm actually seriously considering it.
SL: Huh, does that girl know what she is getting into? Well, I guess there are people for everything, and it isn't as if I can't see the benefits.
LQ: I could adopt you too if you want, you know?
SL: What, so you could call me Ling Ling?
LQ: Hah, yeah, that would be funny.... I'm being serious, though.
SL: ... you want us to become sisters now?
LQ: Well, that wouldn't be so horrible, would it? I just... have been thinking a lot lately, about what means to be a family.
SL: ...
LQ: And since our last conversation in the production tournament I have realized that I don't really know what you want. I mean, I know what your main objectives is, and I know that you care for mortals at a more personal level that most cultivators. But I don't really know what you want to do after.
SL: ... Hmpf, it's not like I know either. I had never thought about it, didn't see much point in it. But now... I have started to think about it, but I still have no idea what I'm supposed to do.
LQ: ... Yeah, I was the same before I decided to join Cai Renxiang. Now that you are in the Inner Sect and have earned an imperial writ you actually have quite a few options, you know? You could remain in the Sect like Li Suyin, protecting the border and helping the mortals here. You could start your own barony, have your own fief with your own subjects in your charge. Or you could join one of the already established clans. Hey, maybe things will go well with that Diao scion you're supposed to meet?
SL: *Snorts* Yeah, sure. Like that high-born noble isn't going to scamper away right after meeting me.
LQ: Who knows. Even if you want no part on any of that, you could just become a wandering cultivator. Keeping mostly to yourself and helping whoever you happen to cross by.
SL: ... That sounds like the kind of think I could have done before coming here and meeting you and Suyin. Now... I'm not so sure I want that anymore.
LQ: Same. So, it's not like I wanted to pressure you or anything. I just wanted you to know that there is one more path, and that the offer will always be there, in case you want to take it.
SL: I see... Thanks. I will think about it, okay?
LQ: Sure, no problem. Now, I think we have been dreaming for long enough, it's time to wake up.

Though I guess a conversation like that would make more sense if we have already done Adoption Vetting. Which, honestly, makes me want to drop the minor bonus from Root Inroads in the auction and go for Adoption Vetting instead.

 

[HeWhoLurks]

My priorities for this turn
Adoption Vetting: The request made of you is a very serious one. You need to give it the consideration it deserves. Take some time to speak with Yu Nuan, introduce her to your family, and perhaps make a little trip to see how she holds up in your presence. [Single Instance Exploration 1d100+20 Base. Gain Location Thunder Palace. Reward thresholds at 40, 60, 80, 100. Characters: Yu Nuan, Ling family)
We decided we're going to adopt Yu Nuan but we still need to put the work in for it. The sooner we do the sooner they can start helping with things.

Weaver of Tails: You've spoken with Su Ling about her troubles, and though you can't give her answers, you can give her a method of better exploring her own thoughts. Take her with you through the labyrinth gate and see where the foxfire leads. (+1 to Dream and Motion Projects. +1 to Dreamwalker Trait on completion. Characters Sixiang, Su Ling)
Su Lings having trouble with her heritage again and the last time this happened and we didn't help she mutilated one of her tails. We should be around to help her with this.

For our cultivation I really want The Opened Vault now. Its something we definitely want and the auctions just a good opportunity to practice using it. The auctions also a good place to start looking at Hanyi's concert's sabotage since we're far more likely to run into someone who was involved in Xiangmen than we are when we're at the sect. and I think the opened vault would be useful for acquiring evidence.

Things I want before we leave the sect
Yrs said we had 6 months till we leave which I think is 6 turns.

Little Workshop of Wonders: You've drifted apart from Suyin a little and your time at the Sect is coming to a close. Spend some time with one of your oldest friends, and look on what she has achieved. The Elixir recipe you discovered is a good place to begin the conversation. {+1 XP to Mystery and Want Projects. Characters Li Suyin, Bao Qingling)
I like Suyin and want to work on that breakthrough elixir

Paying Respects: The Argent Peak Sect has been your home for two years now, and though you are growing apart from it, you still feel that connection. To it's disciples, to its Elders, to the caves and the vents and the trials. Spend some time showing your gratitude for lessons and connections [Maintains current relations with the Argent Sect Peak Sect on departure. 40% Chance to boost reputation with Argent Peak Sect by 1, and ???. Characters: Sima Jiao & Xin, Liao Zhu, various. +1 to Isolation and Power projects undertaken)
The sect has been an excellent opportunity for us and at least 1 of or friends is looking to stay here long term (Suyin) so I want to maintain a good relationship with it. It's going to remain be very involved with the war so even though we're leaving we might still be expected to coordinate with it. A better relationship would help with that. Maintains current relations with the Argent Sect Peak Sect on departure also implies that is we don't do this at some point our rep with them would drop once when we leave. I also want to have the option of sending Biyu here and a good relationship would help with that but that's really long term.
Don't suppose anyone has any guesses on that the ???? is?

Idols and Ancestors: It has been awhile now, since Zeqing found her End. In many ways both you and Hanyi have grown. It is time to take a little time aside to walk the high mountain peaks, to think and listen and remember. [Must be taken with the Frozen Soul Serenade Successor project. Character's Hanyi and Sixiang
I want an FSS successor so we need to do this at some point.

I also want Soul of Ice either before or on the same turn that we start the FSS successor . The broader understanding of ice and winter it seems like its offering just sounds like it would be a good thing to have whilst developing our FSS successor

Based on this I think I'd want something like
[] Plan: Come up with better plan name
- [] [Cultivation] Hidden Scribe (10/8 Silent stones 11/8)
- [] [Cultivation] It's Depths Without End 4/3 (Mirror basin site + Argent Domain 6/3)
- [] [Cultivation] Opened Vault 7/5 (Argent Vent 8/5)
- [] [Professional] Adoption Vetting
- [] [Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] [Personal] Weaver of Tails

I think we want to do Hou Zhuang's Gift since it will help us with our job. It could also pair well with investigating the concert sabotage and the opened vault project.
I'm fairly flexible on the other 2 Cultivation actions. I like Hidden Scribe because I think it could work It well with he other actions I want to take would also rank up the mystery and causality projects which is nice and a chance of more moon attention is never a bad thing.
It's Depths Without End is in there because I want to improve our understanding of endings before working on FSS. The only other project we have that can do that at the moment is soul of ice and I don't think that really fits in this turn.

Mirror Basin and argent domain are on It's Depths Without End since it's the only project that can be doubled without omake points. Argent vents and silent stones are just there because I wanted to put them somewhere so people could see how far away from doubling they were.

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Wouldn't it be better to save up Hidden Scribe, as so to get all 3 moon attentions on the same turn?

 

[TheCount]

.
Though I guess a conversation like that would make more sense if we have already done Adoption Vetting. Which, honestly, makes me want to drop the minor bonus from Root Inroads in the auction and go for Adoption Vetting instead.

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If we get opened vault, we can smuggle in the adoption papers into her ring without her noticing!

 

[qazcdewsx]

Wouldn't it be better to save up Hidden Scribe, as so to get all 3 moon attentions on the same turn?

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If there was a good narrative space for that at some point then sure but it would require a turn where all of our cultivation actions would be committed to the same art which I think would be tricky to get people to vote for. We also dont know where of if there are additional options for moon attention behind grinning and dreaming. Song seekers ceremony might me symmetrical but it might not be.

 

[HeWhoLurks]

If there was a good narrative space for that at some point then sure but it would require a turn where all of our cultivation actions would be committed to the same art which I think would be tricky to get people to vote for. We also dont know where of if there are additional options for moon attention behind grinning and dreaming. Song seekers ceremony might me symmetrical but it might not be.

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It'd make little sense for it not to be symmetrical with the moon attention, besides, choosing grinning or dreaming would allow us to check.
I think it spending all 3 actions on SSC could be a good pitch, especially if it's a turn where we're trying to break through to G5 and/or B5.

 

[ApeofLight]

Hmm, I like the idea behind it, but I think it can be tweaked just a little to make it even better.

As it stands, the Su Ling thing stands out like a sore thumb in there. The benefits of doing it this turn aren't really capitalized, and it's more guiding Su Ling on a journey of self-discovery than anything to really do with Community.

Additionally, I see no reason why we need to dump everything for Community in our cultivation; just taking (and doubling) Dreaming from SSC and one other Community boosting project gets us to Community IV, which seems like enough to me. No need to overshoot at the moment.

With all that said, how about this:

[] Dreaming of Family V2
- [] Adoption Vetting
- [] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] Serpent Whisperer
- [] Dreaming (9/3)
- [] Raising the Bastion, Argent Vent (6/5)
- [] Its Depths Without End, Mirror Basin, Argent Domain (6/3)

I hope I did all my math right, or this'll be embarrassing.

Anyway, we have Adoption Vetting and the Hou Gift, which, as far as I saw, most people think we should definitely do this turn. Serpent Whisperer is for best snek's reaction to the obvious, and because hanging out with our best friend fits a little better into a Community-focused turn than adventures with Su Ling. Sorry, Su Ling, definitely next time.

Dreaming is for the +2 to Community, plus other bonuses and base cultivation is always nice.

Raising the Bastion was picked over Garden of Mists because someone with a big, wrinkly brain pointed out that working on MoSS would be good for the scouting/surveying trip that we have to do this turn. Additionally, because I'm just not a big fan of doing Garden of Mists before the rest of the projects in WHR.

Finally, Its Depths Without End is more for a fitting tie-in with Meizhen than anything else, and could technically be replaced well enough by any other SNR project, though this one seemed the most fitting.

So, yeah. TL;DR: Friends, Family, and Finances!

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See I think we differ on what we think is important for family/community. I think it's much more important that we start helping our friend figure out and decide on a HUGE life altering decision (Su Ling) than any of the other personal actions. in my opinion this is how I would rank the personal and professional actions this turn in importance.

Personal

1. Weaver of Tails Helping Su Ling with this decision is best done as soon as possible. If she does decide to go ahead with the surgery to remove her spirit blood I would want to know as soon as possible so we can help her do it as safely as can be and help insure that it is really want she wants.
2. Idols and Ancestors While getting FSS+ is very important it doesn't feel like the most pressing issue at the moment, we have time for it. Also with the themes we have going on it feels like it would work better when we do Paying Respects going around and talking with all the elders that have taught and helped us.
3. Serpent Whisperer While interesting and fun, talking with best sneks isn't going any where. I'm also sure Meizhen would like a bit of time to go over the bombs dropped by Cai. Plus if we tie it with Little Workshop of Wonders we might be able to get spider GF reaction in same turn.
4. Little Workshop of Wonders See all my reasons for number 3. Interesting, fun, not time sensitive, probably better with some other actions.

Professional

1. Xiangmen Auction This is locked in, we have no choice.
2. Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3 Since we are locked into the Auction the bonuses to the quest Long hand of the Law seem very good, plus who knows what other bonuses we might be able to get by progressing it
3. Adoption Vetting The sooner we finish the adoption process for Yu Nuan the sooner we can get more hands to help us with professional obligations and work along with dumping resources into her to help her improve her cultivation
4. Root Inroads This might be a strong contender to replace Adoption Vetting actually. The +5% to social interactions at the Auction isn't bad but it doesn't seem great either, however there will probably be a fair amount of social rolls at the auction. It's also a good idea to learn more about potential allies and enemies while working on building our home.
5. Paying Respects While we will be leaving the Sect soon we aren't leaving that soon, we can push this off to later when it's more thematically appropriate.
6. Hostess Lessons Not gonna lie don't care about this one too much. We'll probably due it at some point to help capitalize on bonuses and to help reinforce some of the ties we've made with the people there.

With that in mind I believe our personal and professional actions should inform what things we cultivate for the turn. So, here are what I think our best options might be.

[] Dreaming of Family V3 (AKA Community and Creation ties it all together)
- [][Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [][Professional] Adoption Vetting
- [][Personal] Weaver of Tails
- [][Cultivation] Dreaming (10/3) with bonuses from Weaver of Tails, Hou Zhuang (should get us 2 Community, Truth, and Creation projects steps)
- [][Cultivation] Garden of Mists (7/5) with bonuses from Hou Zhuang (Advances Community and Cycles Project by 1. Advances Liminal Carver by 1 which will probably be important later imo)
- [][Cultivation] The Dreaming Gala (8/5) with bonuses from Weaver of Tails (Advances the Dreamwalker Trait by 1 level, and the Creation Concepts by 1 step.)

Pros and cons of the above. Pros, should get us to Community 4 and Creation 2 in our concepts. We should be at Dreamwalker 3. Good theming in my opinion. Also gives us some leeway in what we put points from Argent bonuses and Silent Stones. Cons, no snek, not fully optimized for tree auction, doesn't really boost our combat or sneak capabilities.

[] Steal the Tree! (AKA We go HARD at the auction)
- [][Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [][Professional] Root Inroads
- [][Personal] Weaver of Tails
- [][Cultivation] The Dreaming Gala (8/5) (Advances the Dreamwalker Trait by 1 level, and the Creation Concepts by 1 step.)
- [][Cultivation] Moonless Saboteur's Smile (50% Chance to advance the Truth Concept by 1 Advance the Trait by one)
- [][Cultivation] The Opened Vault (7/5) (Advances Vanishing by 1. Advances Want project by one)

Pros and cons of the above. Pros, we are as prepared as we can be for the Auction and still help Su Ling. We advance Vanishing to 9, Dreamwalker to 3, and Hidden smile to 4 while also being able to steal from dimensional storage. We will basically be able to go anywhere and talk our way through any interaction we need to. Still of leeway in what we dump some of our bonuses into. Cons, no snek, theming is kind of all over with no Conceptual Project tying it all together.

Personally I think Dreaming of Family V3 would be better story wise and I like the actions we take there more.

This is just wishful thinking, but I would really like if the Weaver of Tails action leads to Ling Qi adopting Su Ling into the family. Well, not immediately adopting her, Su Ling isn't a pokmon we are trying to catch.

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Wait, our friends aren't Poke'mon we are trying to adopt into our family? And here I was thinking we were trying to get more badges so we could adopt Gu Xiulan, Bai Meizhen and Cai Renxiang.

SL: What, so you could call me Ling Ling?

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And then you could have a kid and they could be Ling Lingling

 

[JowKeen]

Resource regen is a defensive strategy and direct damage is an offensive one. Of course Liling has both defense and offense.

Edit: In the vast majority of cases a finisher has really just been a Mortal Kombat Fatality for us. Its used at the end of a fight to signify our power over our opponent. We had a tactically relevant finisher in Traveler's End but that was too disruptive and was removed, while CtE has only really been tactically relevant against Hui Peng, where it was actually used as an opener. There's also Lunatic Whirl, I guess, but that's not classed as a "finisher" but rather a symptom of how the old system in Forge got wonky.

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well, no. The resource regen pulls double duty fueling the offense, and the offense not only pressures the opponent to limit their options but also fuels the regen with bleeding. It's a holistic build that fuels itself.

Having a Mortal Kombat Fatality is tactically relevant. It frees us up to do other things, reducing the time and energy we're spending controlling someone into oblivion. In addition, we used it during 3 Village Defense against a Green at Village 3 and it pushed them towards the retreat because of just how hard we hit them. The time we used it on Hui Peng is functionally the same use case, freeing up our time and energy by Ending the fight we would have won slowly otherwise.



this is especially useful for an attrition build in the wild, because Finishers aren't only useful for duels. We have a build that eviscerates chaff, and attritions peers. If an enemy target falls below a certain threshold or an opportunity opens, we hit them with extremely high Pen and Damage and greatly accelerate the clock they'd otherwise be on. We used it against Ji Rong to this effect, where CtE burned out the Qi reserves and reduced him to only having his physical cultivation to fall back on. The duel was over, even if it hadn't killed him outright (we weren't trying to kill him and the Sect was watching to make sure we didn't). The Qi-less Ji Rong would've been able to have been handled by subordinates at that point, still dangerous but not taking up our personal time/attention.

That's the main objective with a Finisher for me. Cripple or kill a target outright so that we can move on with our lives as soon as possible.

 

[LittenLeKitten]

See I think we differ on what we think is important for family/community. I think it's much more important that we start helping our friend figure out and decide on a HUGE life altering decision (Su Ling) than any of the other personal actions. in my opinion this is how I would rank the personal and professional actions this turn in importance.

Personal

1. Weaver of Tails Helping Su Ling with this decision is best done as soon as possible. If she does decide to go ahead with the surgery to remove her spirit blood I would want to know as soon as possible so we can help her do it as safely as can be and help insure that it is really want she wants.
2. Idols and Ancestors While getting FSS+ is very important it doesn't feel like the most pressing issue at the moment, we have time for it. Also with the themes we have going on it feels like it would work better when we do Paying Respects going around and talking with all the elders that have taught and helped us.
3. Serpent Whisperer While interesting and fun, talking with best sneks isn't going any where. I'm also sure Meizhen would like a bit of time to go over the bombs dropped by Cai. Plus if we tie it with Little Workshop of Wonders we might be able to get spider GF reaction in same turn.
4. Little Workshop of Wonders See all my reasons for number 3. Interesting, fun, not time sensitive, probably better with some other actions.

Professional

1. Xiangmen Auction This is locked in, we have no choice.
2. Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3 Since we are locked into the Auction the bonuses to the quest Long hand of the Law seem very good, plus who knows what other bonuses we might be able to get by progressing it
3. Adoption Vetting The sooner we finish the adoption process for Yu Nuan the sooner we can get more hands to help us with professional obligations and work along with dumping resources into her to help her improve her cultivation
4. Root Inroads This might be a strong contender to replace Adoption Vetting actually. The +5% to social interactions at the Auction isn't bad but it doesn't seem great either, however there will probably be a fair amount of social rolls at the auction. It's also a good idea to learn more about potential allies and enemies while working on building our home.
5. Paying Respects While we will be leaving the Sect soon we aren't leaving that soon, we can push this off to later when it's more thematically appropriate.
6. Hostess Lessons Not gonna lie don't care about this one too much. We'll probably due it at some point to help capitalize on bonuses and to help reinforce some of the ties we've made with the people there.

With that in mind I believe our personal and professional actions should inform what things we cultivate for the turn. So, here are what I think our best options might be.

[] Dreaming of Family V3 (AKA Community and Creation ties it all together)
- [][Professional] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [][Professional] Adoption Vetting
- [][Personal] Weaver of Tails
- [][Cultivation] Dreaming (10/3) with bonuses from Weaver of Tails, Hou Zhuang (should get us 2 Community, Truth, and Creation projects steps)
- [][Cultivation] Garden of Mists (7/5) with bonuses from Hou Zhuang (Advances Community and Cycles Project by 1. Advances Liminal Carver by 1 which will probably be important later imo)
- [][Cultivation] The Dreaming Gala (8/5) with bonuses from Weaver of Tails (Advances the Dreamwalker Trait by 1 level, and the Creation Concepts by 1 step.)

Pros and cons of the above. Pros, should get us to Community 4 and Creation 2 in our concepts. We should be at Dreamwalker 3. Good theming in my opinion. Also gives us some leeway in what we put points from Argent bonuses and Silent Stones. Cons, no snek, not fully optimized for tree auction, doesn't really boost our combat or sneak capabilities.

Click to shrink...

I see what you're getting at now. I think. I hope.

Either way, I was with you on the plan up until Garden of Mists. Like I said before, I'm not a big fan of doing it before the other projects in WHR, mostly because it's a net loss in terms of the bonuses we apply to WHR projects (That's what changing the keywords means, right?). It's only a -1, so not too big a deal, but why deal with that penalty in the first place when we can just do it last, y'know? Raising the Bastion doesn't have that downside, and its benefits might be used this turn, rather than some point down the road.

Additionally, I wonder if we should change out The Dreaming Gala for Phantasmal Mastery; while the bonuses from The Dreaming Gala are better suited for what's going on, the description of it makes it seem a bit off, to me. It turns our 'guiding Su Ling on a journey of self-discovery made manifest' into 'taking Su Ling clubbing and helping her with the power of hangover regret'. I guess we could just do these things at separate times, but why bother with that when we can do multiple things at once and be efficient.

Additionally, Phantasmal Mastery's insights on Isolation fit well as a sort of juxtaposed focus for Su Ling. Yes, we're guiding her on a journey of Community, but so too should she understand the why of it. That's all Isolation.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

[] Dreaming of Family V4
- [] Adoption Vetting
- [] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] Weaver of Tails
- [] Dreaming (10/3)
- [] Raising the Bastion, Argent Vent (5/5)
- [] Phantasmal Mastery, Argent Domain, Silent Stones (10/5)

And, hey, this even has some combat benefits to go alongside all the non-combat stuff! Phantasmal Mastery boosts all summon techniques, so that'll make PLR and BKSD stronger in one go, right?

 

[kinigget]

Aw man turn votes. I definitely have things I want to see, but no confidence in the cultivation side of things. I'll pass

 

[Erebeal]

My feelings on FSS is that currently it has a number of design problems that mean it's not expressing its themes well, and it isn't really engaging with itself well. While I also believe the successor should build on our Insight, and try to tie the art more into LQ's themes and synergise with the rest of our build, these are the issues I think are really important to address in redesign.

In brief:

1. SEA/Echoes largely don't have any impact outside of creating cool snow fx at the start of fights. They're too passive, and just disappear into the background while the real action goes on. If this was a visual medium then they might have much stronger ongoing visibility and effect, but it isn't so they don't. I would like to see them changed to be more visibly impactful, and, if we have to have fields, that they should actually be actively engaged with.
2. CtE is thematically and mechanically awkward with its "one-two punch" setup. It doesn't fit the themes of the Art in terms of a slow End from the cold, and is very rigid in execution. It creates awkward questions around "if it's so easy to set up, why isn't it used constantly?" which the finisher system just sort of papers over. Work with the themes of the Art here, and make its setup vaguer - we aren't in a turn based system anymore. You can have it so it only works when the enemy has been sufficiently weakened that they could be finished (which is its narrative purpose anyway), when we've frozen them "enough" - which would ofc depend on how strong they are.
3. Hoarfrost is powerful, but too simplistic and crude. Thematically it shouldn't be burst dps really, but the DoT isn't engaged with at all (because that was originally handled by Forge's turn system and mechanics) and so that's what it is functionally treated as. You could replace it with lightning bolts or Xiulan's fire balls and nothing would change other than aesthetic. Wrapping aoe and single target into a single package means no thought is given to how it is used either. It presents no real style of combat, just a powerful damage effect, so while it looks cool, it isn't really doing much to create interesting fights.

The last point is one I'd particularly like to focus on, because I'd really like FSS to just, well, be more interesting. And I think there's a very good narrative here for LQ looking at developing the Art. Zeqing was a spirit, not a cultivator, not a martial artist, not a fighter. She taught us to invoke powerful concepts, but the details of how you should, say, be using the Art in a fight against other cultivators were questions she wasn't really into.

This means that there are good grounds for LQ to be asking these questions - how should she really be using the Art now she has more experience and skill? Oh, it's a powerful effect to be sure. And when you're mostly fighting people weaker and less talented than you, that can work to bulldoze them... but is it really being used in the most efficient way here? Why do our attacks have such massive aoe blast all the time? If all we want to do is fuck up a single target, wouldn't it be better to focus our power all onto them, either to use less qi or strike more powerfully? Would it not be better to refine our control over our song, and only target the people we want to target, making the most efficient use of our qi and power?

And then taking this further, when fighting genuine peers what's the best way to focus our attacks on them? The best way to apply the Concepts of FSS in the duel of philosophy? Is just trying to crudely blow them up the best way to do that, or is that an invitation for them to shrug our attacks off? Might we again not be better refining our control and focusing our attacks to strip holes in their defenses? Weakening and disabling them? Opening gaps to slip our poison through and then build it up stronger and stronger until they can no longer stand?

This way you actually start to have a specific combat style and tactics that you can then synergise with other things, like working with others and our control mechanisms and defenses. Our hit and run tactics with LFWT. You can have trade-offs and pros and cons, but in a way that feels like a natural refinement of the Art and a way to better express its strengths.

We don't know how yrs is intending to do the successor development, and philosophical reflection is probably going to be a major part of it... but I also feel that these kind of practical reflections and refinements are also something that should be considered.

 

[RoadrunnerJ]

@RoadrunnerJ
We had two dresses iirc one when we got gutted the first time by Lingling and the one when we went to Renren. Here's the current one

Click to shrink...

I mean when we got our current dress from the guy who who made it? I think that was when we first met him?
Edit: or am I remembering things wrong? I thought we only had the one special dress.

 

[ApeofLight]

I see what you're getting at now. I think. I hope.

Either way, I was with you on the plan up until Garden of Mists. Like I said before, I'm not a big fan of doing it before the other projects in WHR, mostly because it's a net loss in terms of the bonuses we apply to WHR projects (That's what changing the keywords means, right?). It's only a -1, so not too big a deal, but why deal with that penalty in the first place when we can just do it last, y'know? Raising the Bastion doesn't have that downside, and its benefits might be used this turn, rather than some point down the road.

Additionally, I wonder if we should change out The Dreaming Gala for Phantasmal Mastery; while the bonuses from The Dreaming Gala are better suited for what's going on, the description of it makes it seem a bit off, to me. It turns our 'guiding Su Ling on a journey of self-discovery made manifest' into 'taking Su Ling clubbing and helping her with the power of hangover regret'. I guess we could just do these things at separate times, but why bother with that when we can do multiple things at once and be efficient.

Additionally, Phantasmal Mastery's insights on Isolation fit well as a sort of juxtaposed focus for Su Ling. Yes, we're guiding her on a journey of Community, but so too should she understand the why of it. That's all Isolation.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

[] Dreaming of Family V4
- [] Adoption Vetting
- [] Hou Zhuang's Gift 1 of 3
- [] Weaver of Tails
- [] Dreaming (9/3)
- [] Raising the Bastion, Argent Vent (5/5)
- [] Phantasmal Mastery, Argent Domain, Silent Stones (10/5)

And, hey, this even has some combat benefits to go alongside all the non-combat stuff! Phantasmal Mastery boosts all summon techniques, so that'll make PLR and BKSD stronger in one go, right?

Click to shrink...

Okay, okay I think I'm picking up what you're putting down.

I do kind of agree that this plan might actually be better both with what we have to do this turn and with some of the themes but let me play devils advocate for fun.

Garden of Mists does change the keywords but it changes it from Fire and Music to Dream and Boundaries. We lose the benefit from Songseeker but gain a bonus from Sixiang so it nets zero on projects. We also get a bonus to WHR projects this turn from doing Hou Zhuang's Gift which while not huge is nice to take advantage of. But like you said Raising the Bastion might come in handy this turn while Garden of Mists is more down the line.

PLR I can definitely see us doing either Gala or Mastery. Gala gives us more Dreamwalker and also tacks on Ephemeral Dreamlit Dancer to it going forward which seems nice and you could definelty spin the narrative to be "Hey, were going to swing by a party first, I know some guys that might help. Don't drink anything but have fun before we go on your dreamquest." But Mastery does improve all summons which would hit PLR and BKSD and I think technically Silent Songseeker's Regard. The increase to summons isn't very clear to me.

Either way I think both plans sound good but I am leaning more towards the V4 version of it.

 

[LittenLeKitten]

Garden of Mists does change the keywords but it changes it from Fire and Music to Dream and Boundaries. We lose the benefit from Songseeker but gain a bonus from Sixiang so it nets zero on projects.

Click to shrink...

Does Formations fall under Sixiang's +1 to Expression/Creation? Because I thought we were just gaining a +1 from Fire -> Dream, and losing a +2 from Music -> Formations with nothing to make up for it. If that's not the case, then I'm not as against Garden of Mists, but that was my understanding of it.

 

[Erebeal]

Honestly, I want to vote for Yu Nuan/Hou Zhuang/Bian Ya

Yu Nuan is just something we really should be getting done, while Hou Zhuang and Bian Ya both really feel like things that should be happening as part of our prep for going to Xiangmen, and should dovetail nicely with each other.

It feels like a lot is being stuck into this turn though. Like, on top of the Xiangmen Auction arc, we're now having scouting as well, and Yu Nuan and Su Ling both have adventures attached to them, and that's on top of the needs of our cultivation...

 

[Lena27]

Honestly, I want to vote for Yu Nuan/Hou Zhuang/Bian Ya

Yu Nuan is just something we really should be getting done, while Hou Zhuang and Bian Ya both really feel like things that should be happening as part of our prep for going to Xiangmen, and should dovetail nicely with each other.

It feels like a lot is being stuck into this turn though. Like, on top of the Xiangmen Auction arc, we're now having scouting as well, and Yu Nuan and Su Ling both have adventures attached to them, and that's on top of the needs of our cultivation...

Click to shrink...

They all arguably have synergy with one another. We need to get our house in order and look presentable as a noble house by all the big leagues at the auction at Xiangmen. Adopting Yu Nuan falls under that category.
We need to start gathering information. As a 'spymaster' we fall woefully short of the Empire's standards I'm sure. Its understandable, our focus has been elsewhere. However we should really at least try to put together an info network before Xiangmen. Thus, Hou Zhuang option and Bian Ya option are both valid.
I'm sure Yrs will find a way to ensure the synergy leads to less of an aimless plotline. U should have faith in him.
Idk if that was ur concern?

 

[Erebeal]

They all arguably have synergy with one another. We need to get our house in order and look presentable as a noble house by all the big leagues at the auction at Xiangmen. Adopting Yu Nuan falls under that category.
We need to start gathering information. As a 'spymaster' we fall woefully short of the Empire's standards I'm sure. Its understandable, our focus has been elsewhere. However we should really at least try to put together an info network before Xiangmen. Thus, Hou Zhuang option and Bian Ya option are both valid.
I'm sure Yrs will find a way to ensure the synergy leads to less of an aimless plotline. U should have faith in him.
Idk if that was ur concern?

Click to shrink...

I was more bemoaning the fact that we can't take all those because they've all been designated as "professional actions".

But in terms of concerns, I feel like the structure of this plan system is repeating the mistakes of the past due to its lack of focus or purpose? All the options are appealing, sure, but are they appropriate?

Many of them are just things we should be doing, why are they choices? Intel and networking via our contacts is something we should just be doing as part of prep for going to Xiangmen. Yu Nuan is a thread that should just be getting resolved by now. The Argent Sect wrap up is cool, but not really relevant to the current arc at all. Hostess is also a thing we want to do, but why is it getting put up against these other options? Su Ling looks like an adventure arc that would probably be multiple updates (though I could be wrong), in which case why is it getting put up against shorter social fluff options?

By and large, this feels like we've again been given a list of obligations we need to do sometime, rather than choices about how we want to tackle our narrative path. And we'll do some now, and then more will be added next turn, and we'll just build up more things we need to do again.

I don't mind some level of "free action" votes for us to give direction to what LQ does beyond the set narrative - in fact I want that! But it feels like this system is again just going to produce situations where we're either not doing things that LQ should really just be doing, or building up a massive list of things we have to do so turns get really bloated. My concern is the system as it's being presented here is going to perpetuate all the problems we were having previously, while not actually achieving the goals of giving us useful agency.

And also this turn already feels like it's having a lot of different things stuck into it, though obviously we don't know yrs's plans there and I'd be happy to be wrong.

 

[AbeoLogos]

Honestly, I want to vote for Yu Nuan/Hou Zhuang/Bian Ya

Yu Nuan is just something we really should be getting done, while Hou Zhuang and Bian Ya both really feel like things that should be happening as part of our prep for going to Xiangmen, and should dovetail nicely with each other.

It feels like a lot is being stuck into this turn though. Like, on top of the Xiangmen Auction arc, we're now having scouting as well, and Yu Nuan and Su Ling both have adventures attached to them, and that's on top of the needs of our cultivation...

Click to shrink...

I agree it's shaping up to be clunky with a lot of moving parts, but there's nothing we can really do about it.

Like, it's a lot of adventures. 4 or something? Yu Nuan is its own, Wall surveying is its own, Su Ling is its own, and the Dream gala stuff, while relatable to the auction's subjects, necessarily has to take place in its own space/context for character, narrative, and spatial reasons. On top of the auction itself and its social/politics/intrigue with Diao Hualing.

But the reason it's clunky like this is because we've neglected things. Yu Nuan should have been done earlier. Establishing our Dream chops should have been done earlier. Wall Surveying... frankly, feels like it should be done later and the Hou Zhuang action should be our locked in retainer action? But whatever. Point is we can't get out of the rut we're in by not doing the things that we should already have done, pushing them off just makes a mess of everything forever.

And because my brain is awful, here's my estimates for the number of updates we can expect per mini-arc:
-Surveying the Wall 2-5 (2 if it's mostly the Renxiang crew reviewing old records and crossreferencing new reports to establish how they go about things. Mostly fluff to get Gan Guangli more up to speed and lay down some groundwork for the serious convo while on our way to the capital. 4-5 if we're actually doing footwork for some reason.)
-Yu Nuan 4=< (This has both family conversation, which could easily be two updates/conversations or more on its own, plus an adventure which could hit 3 trivially and can't be less than 2.)
-Su Ling 3-4 (2 vote breaks is a standard minimum for adventures, and it could be more. Partly depends on placement relative other Dreams and consequent mastery; less ability is likely to stretch it longer.)
-Auction 8+ (Minimum 2 for the on-route convo. Minimum 2 for Diao Hualing. 3-ish for the actual auction logistics/talking to Meng Dan/Xia Lin. 1+ for miscellaneous introductions/opportunities, like talking to the astronomer joining us to the south.)
-Hou Zhuang 1-3 (Could be handled mostly through callbacks as relevant, still calls for a core establishment scene. Might not be that compact, depending on how many "focus on X clan/region" choices are thrown in.)
-Dream Gala 3-5 (A lot depends on the timing of this, which is impossible to really call. I think most people want it connected to the auction, but the auction being at the end of the month makes timing delicate on a lot. 3 updates could be solid if themes properly laid down in advance, but 4-5 is probably healthier for what needs to be done here with characters/introspection/exploration of concepts. ***Dangerously high chance of being cut short from turn burnout. Must not be allowed to happen.***)

Subtotal: 21-29+ updates

See? My brain is awful. But like in the classic sense of a horror bordering on incomprehensible scale.

 

[Elsecaller]

Subtotal: 21-29+

See? My brain is awful. But like in the classic sense of a horror bordering on incomprehensible scale.

Click to shrink...

Honestly that would still be a massive improvement over the ~50 updates not including interludes that we had this turn. So the turn would still be beefy, but not crazy huge like this turn or turn 11. It will also be easier to have shorter turns when we get through some of the backlog of stuff we have to do to like the auction etc. So I expect the turns to continue to get shorter for a while.