- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
I may vote for that plan just because of the name.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
i'm in favor of:
[] Plan Star Stealing Shenanigans
-[][Guan Zhi] The Twelve Stars confederation representatives
-[][Cai Renxiang] The Shishigui representatives
-[][Ling Qi] Securing the Starstone
Ling Qi is most likely the best (only) thief with even a remote chance of securing the secondary objective,
CRX has type advantage against the troglodytes, AND her flashy moves are the perfect cover for the thief.
Guan Zhi is kind of mandatory if we want to block that enemy cyan...
Leaving the WhiteLotus Sky alone has decent chances of not getting them involved in the whole thing. They are already largely uninterested in this so if they see the other two forces get crushed they might reconsider the whole thing...
[] Plan Star Stealing Shenanigans
-[][Guan Zhi] The Twelve Stars confederation representatives
-[][Cai Renxiang] The Shishigui representatives
-[][Ling Qi] Securing the Starstone
Ling Qi is most likely the best (only) thief with even a remote chance of securing the secondary objective,
CRX has type advantage against the troglodytes, AND her flashy moves are the perfect cover for the thief.
Guan Zhi is kind of mandatory if we want to block that enemy cyan...
Leaving the White
Mmm, fair. And if Cyan dude tries to grab the rock and run then Diao Gen and Liao Zhu shank him while he's carrying a big rock. Monofocusing on us doing everything around the Starstone and ignoring our allies may be a mistake.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
i find it HIGHLY unlikely that the barbarians don't have their own methods to carry the twelfth piece of starstone...
Assuming he doesnt have allies of his own ready to run interference as he does so
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Which is why I'm more a fan of Black Noise's proposal tbh.
Just murk a faction and clean out the background support so that the bargain is invalidated and then go from there with a Cyan at our back.
- Location
- Greece
Ok, I am a bit leery of leaving the Cyan with a free action, this can prove devastating, but I find the notion that "they are allready our enemies, let us destroy them now" to be strategically unsound.
Rome won over its enemies by the tactic of "divide and conquer". That meant it won by ensuring that the other enemies it had at worst didn't assist its current target and at best weakened themselves and the current target just in time for us to swoop in. We should be thinking among the same lines here, even if it is not our duty as a scout. Leaving them saddled by their bureaucracy and hesitation will be worth a lot more to the empire than drumming them up and helping the enemy unify faster. Is that wortth the danger of a Cyan with a free action? I am not sure.
But it's certainly not worth a chance to get the head of a Cyan. Those guys sound like big melons, they probably go above Cyan in their leadership. We absolutely want to stall them, unless making them act in haste would benefit us, which it doesn't when we can have beaten the Shishigui by the time they decide to attack, clearing us of a front.
- Location
- Required Location
Im less concerned with the horde running away than with small, organized groups powering up destroying our red shirts due to their flying and maneuverability. Also with either Cai, Zhi or both hitting the shishigui. I dont think they will have much time to resecure their shiny.
And if the Cyan isnt busy defending themselves they'll just, what, let the attack go unanswered?
You cant assume that all the players are going to politely stand by and wait for our guys to finish their attacks before responding
Edit: like it's a genuinely silly argument
The artillery strike is about offing chaff, not ganking leadership
If the 12 Stars Confederation rep doesnt have to worry about saving his allies from Guan Zhis attack, he'll be able.to spare the effort to fully focus on defending the Shishigui
Either way wiping out a faction in the opening moves isnt on the table.
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- Location
- Greece
Mmm, the thing is though that they're already planning to attack us because the Empire has been killing them. They just want to build up more first. Killing a Cyan isn't going to suddenly change that I don't think.
Otoh, if they know that we know that they're going after the Starstones and we're now interested in interfering with that then that is the kind of thing that might push them to take a more aggressive posture in order to make sure they can secure all the Starstone and stop us from interfering.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The timing I'm considering is that Guan Zhi and CRX will artillery strike the Shishigui since they're artillery and yrs has said they're opening up with their biggest alpha strikes, while Ling Qi clears the supporting yellows, and then the Twelve Stars will attack whatever imperial forces are present which is going to be Guan Zhi and CRX and Ling Qi.
So yes I do expect him to attack, but I don't expect him to land his attacks until after the artillery lands, given that we're acting from surprise. He certainly has no love lost for the Shishigui so the Twelve Stars leader defending them seems unlikely. More likely might be making a grab for the stone.
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
The main objectives are:
1. Stop the ritual from succeeding and disperse non-Imperials to discourage further attempts.
1a. Capture ritual participants for information gathering and hostage purposes.
[NEW] 2. Retrieve Starstone asset denial and likely research purposes.
Dropping our strike force onto the Caldera will almost immediately succeed at the primary objective, because what's going on here isn't just a ritual to awaken the mountain but to also acquire specific materials and resources buried within it for unknown purposes. Fragments of the Starstone work wonders against qi constructs when used by a PRISM. We don't want to see what a ritual with one of these suckers can do when used by people like the Shishigui who live with it and the Twelve Stars Confederation who seem very focused on using it and so might have knowledge about doing so.
Objective 1A is doable during the fight and is supported by our personnel who are manning the perimeter as well as the other Greens who will be assaulting the Caldera with us. As we have confirmed that this is a multi turn engagement, we can reprioritize as necessary.
We will only get the drop on the assembled personages once, and of them all Two groups have a vested interest in maintaining ownership/access to the Starstone and the rest are aware of at least some of its utility and potential as a bargaining chip. I would suggest we who have some pretty good resistances as well as influence negating abilities work on removing the asset from the battlefield ASAP, because I am certain that at least the Twelve Stars are going to circle the wagons on it the moment they realize the Imperials aren't just near but right on top of them. We can make use of our larceny and stealth to get as close as possible to snatch and then our Innitiative and Speed boosts to exfil while Zhengui and Hanyi cover our retreat and CRX and Guan Zhi engage the enemy leadership.
1. Stop the ritual from succeeding and disperse non-Imperials to discourage further attempts.
1a. Capture ritual participants for information gathering and hostage purposes.
[NEW] 2. Retrieve Starstone asset denial and likely research purposes.
Dropping our strike force onto the Caldera will almost immediately succeed at the primary objective, because what's going on here isn't just a ritual to awaken the mountain but to also acquire specific materials and resources buried within it for unknown purposes. Fragments of the Starstone work wonders against qi constructs when used by a PRISM. We don't want to see what a ritual with one of these suckers can do when used by people like the Shishigui who live with it and the Twelve Stars Confederation who seem very focused on using it and so might have knowledge about doing so.
Objective 1A is doable during the fight and is supported by our personnel who are manning the perimeter as well as the other Greens who will be assaulting the Caldera with us. As we have confirmed that this is a multi turn engagement, we can reprioritize as necessary.
We will only get the drop on the assembled personages once, and of them all Two groups have a vested interest in maintaining ownership/access to the Starstone and the rest are aware of at least some of its utility and potential as a bargaining chip. I would suggest we who have some pretty good resistances as well as influence negating abilities work on removing the asset from the battlefield ASAP, because I am certain that at least the Twelve Stars are going to circle the wagons on it the moment they realize the Imperials aren't just near but right on top of them. We can make use of our larceny and stealth to get as close as possible to snatch and then our Innitiative and Speed boosts to exfil while Zhengui and Hanyi cover our retreat and CRX and Guan Zhi engage the enemy leadership.
Which is fine because we already know that the Cloud Tribes are fractious and unprepared
Better have them be forced to walk into a blender before they're ready
That isnt the problem
The problem is if he Defends
Then you've killed no one because he could spare his full effort to saving the Shishigui, rather than covering for his own subordinates
It's a bad gamble. Neither Renxiang nor Guan Zhi are going to be quiet about those attacks. They wont be ready for them, but they'll be able to respond in time to limit the damage
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Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Since the vote for CRX and Guan Zhi is about who they're nuking with their alpha-strikes, we should probably aim at targets that
a) benefit our objectives the most to get a surprise alpha-strike tier hit on
b) we believe an alpha strike will actually be effective against them
In that sense, e.g CRX vs team ice witch is probably pretty effective since we know CRX is cancer for that type of build. Same with Guan Zhi vs anything other than team cyan-guy who may have a deployable team-aoe defense to let them weather a sudden storm. CRX vs shishigui is tricky but probably still pretty effective even if it isn't a 1hit ko.
The tricky bit is meshing it with LQ's action and for me is about what our high-level tactical goal is:
a) benefit our objectives the most to get a surprise alpha-strike tier hit on
b) we believe an alpha strike will actually be effective against them
In that sense, e.g CRX vs team ice witch is probably pretty effective since we know CRX is cancer for that type of build. Same with Guan Zhi vs anything other than team cyan-guy who may have a deployable team-aoe defense to let them weather a sudden storm. CRX vs shishigui is tricky but probably still pretty effective even if it isn't a 1hit ko.
The tricky bit is meshing it with LQ's action and for me is about what our high-level tactical goal is:
- If we want better positioning for a longer fight, then target the weaker forces to give the sect a numbers advantage.
- If we think the shiny rock is the top-priority (because it looks like the leverage the Shishigui have to secure bigger barbarian assistance), then we should focus on that.
- If we're concerned about the Shishigui faction surviving attention from CRX alone (if we also direct Guan Zhi to the cyans), then LQ's assistance there could prove the tipping point to get a good outcome from this first strike.
- About the only thing we should avoid is have LQ target a force that isn't being targeted by artillery.
- Location
- Greece
Well that answers my question indirectly. Guess Ill go with obvious route is obvious, then. Although...
I do still maintain that it would have been optimal not to aggro them. It just seems very likely that they'd be aggro'd anyway due to the starstone, so we need guan on them.
- Location
- United States of America
Yeah, with that bit of clarification, I feel even more strongly that crushing one faction as fast as possible is the best way to go. I think the Twelve Star Confederation is too sturdy to eliminate quickly, and I am unsure about what the White Sky Confederation will do, but I do know that the Shishigui are the ones in control over the Starstone which is our secondary objective.
I think that crushing the Shishigui puts us in the best position to win the conflict overall and secure the secondary objective.
If he can defend others from surprise, then there's nothing anyone below cyan can do in this fight, and the Imperial forces have already lost.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Why would he bother defending the Shishigui? He doesn't care about the Shishigui and actively distrusts them, plus you're saying he'd do it at the expense of his own subordinates, people he presumably actually likes and trusts.
He's more likely to just defend himself and his people and take the stone in the ensuing chaos of our strike. Which is fine, we can respond to that and have support in the works anyway.
- Location
- Required Location
The cyan was the one who said, that he will not tread with demons, right. I doubt that he can block a surprise alpha strike of an enemy cyan on anyone but himself and those of his group.
Follow up strikes? Yeah, i can see him trying to block those, but not the alpha strikes we earned through our successful infiltration.
If hes fully focused on defense. And blocks Guan Zhis attack
And the Shishigui are also putting everything they can into defending against Renxiangs attack
Why wouldn't they be able to limit the damage enough to keep the Shishigui from being wiped out?
The point is eliminating the chaff. If all their best are coordinating their defensive efforts on a concentrated attack, then that severely limits the chances of being able to thin the herd
Please don't play this game where you claim that every option other than yours means the entire exercise is a waste of time
Its contrarian silliness
Because he supports their Cloud Barbarian allies that are literally standing right next to them?
The point of an artillery strike is that its indiscriminate
By virtue of proximity, hes unlikely to leave those Cloud Barbarians to die. Or at least protect the Starstone from being damaged.
No that was White Cloud dude
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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Here's the deal Chron.
I'm supporting the idea of Guan Zhi and CRX splattering the Shishigui in the alpha strike, while Ling Qi clears out the weaker chaff on the caldera rim. Twelve Stars has no motive to actually protect the Shishigui, because they don't like them, don't trust them, and can logically steal the stone from them if the Shishigui are busy trying not to die to combined Cyan and G4 alpha strikes. Using power to try and defend the Shishigui when what the Twelve Stars actually care about is the Stone is counterproductive, since if the Shishigui do survive they're going to be pissed at the Twelve Stars for trying to take the Stone, and the more power spent defending the Shishigui the less power spent towards taking the Stone.
Attack the Shishigui and yellows, leaves the board in a state of the Cyan probably making moves for the Stone and White Sky boogying, at which point Ling Qi, CRX and Guan Zhi can make their own moves to contest the Twelve Stars Cyan and his peeps.
- Location
- Required Location
I think the big problem is that most if us think that we have earned to give one big sucker punch before the fight actually starts due to lq being undetected and playing atillery observer. You seem to think that the enemy cyan can react to any attack, including the attack of guan zhi, without being bothered by surprise. That seems to be the big divide? Is that about right?
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Hm. The issue with going for a straight fight is we're hilariously outnumbered, and while their defenses will likely be lesser from the alpha strike straight up fighting groups of enemies while outnumbered is playing long odds even with reinforcements on the way. Although the fact that multiple parties want the Starstone means we can probably use that as a way to break up their formations by forcing them to send subordinates after it if go along with Stone Heist, which is helpful for the perimeter group when they bail as they'll be split up at a minimum.
In regards to how to steal the Starstone... if LQ got it to the edge the fact that it fell in the first place likely means it'll obey the law of gravity meaning she can just kick it down, and run atop it, or given the large amount of moisture in the air Hanyi might be able to blanket the side of the volcano with snow, and they can sled down it with Zhengui/LQ? Well that presumes we grab it, and bait instead of fighting in place I suppose.
In regards to how to steal the Starstone... if LQ got it to the edge the fact that it fell in the first place likely means it'll obey the law of gravity meaning she can just kick it down, and run atop it, or given the large amount of moisture in the air Hanyi might be able to blanket the side of the volcano with snow, and they can sled down it with Zhengui/LQ? Well that presumes we grab it, and bait instead of fighting in place I suppose.