Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The difference is that both Bai and Cai exist within a human context, with a still-basically-human perspective. (I'd still say even the most remote White is more essentially human than any spirit, by virtue of starting off as something that a human wanted to be.) They share a common culture with the Empire, and the people affected by their choices can understand what they want and where they're coming from. Even when they suck, they suck in a human way. Whatever the after-effects, they will be such that the unwilling recipient can still exist within human society.

Imagine you're given a gift you can't refuse or dispose of by a person you don't know. Which would you rather have give that gift to you, a human being or, I don't know, some sort of giant spider alien? Because the Sunflower Goddess very definitely seems more in the spider-alien classification, and I don't think Sun Liling wants to spend all day weaving webs and eating flies. That's great for a spider, but it's not something she values!

It would really really depend on the gift? Because honestly, knowing nothing about the gift, I may still take my chances with the alien goddess, because I know how incredibly nasty humanity can be from history books. Humanity ain't always a good thing yall, and sometimes it even labeled terrible abuses or injustices as gifts (even heard of lobotomy? Doctors used to prescribe it to make the patient feel better)

No Shenhua did not do it by accident. CRX said herself in the RR chapter that Shenhua does nothing by mistake, all her moves are calculated and there is nothing that happens outside of her knowledge. CRX was a little girl and she wanted to meet her mom, she had no idea what was gonna happen. Lin Hai or whoever was assigned to take care of her at that moment was more than capable of stopping a little kid in the Red realm from a rebellious act. I don't know where the exact chapter is and I'm not gonna hunt it down now but I'm pretty sure I remember CRX saying in the RR chap that when Shenhua heard that CRX had defied her caretakers orders and was coming to see her, CaiMom said okay and let it happen. And you better believe that Shenhua knew how her presence would affect a child, how it would traumatize her for life. Maybe she doesn't have the ability to care anymore but Shenhua is a White cultivator who is ~300 years old, she knew how her presence and/or Domain affects the minds of mortals by that point.

Cai is not necessarily correct about Shenhua's omniscience, but eh,I guess it may be the case?
 
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Oh boy! I can't wait for all the morally messed up things the Ling clan will get up to when they are more established.

"Give respect to your Great Grandmother."
Nervously bows.
Promptly gets glomped by a crowd of adorable phantom children.


Absolutely heinous.
 
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On a tangent from the whole "white cultivator monster" thing, I have to say that I love yrsillar's take on cultivation. Having people gain power by carving off parts of their humanity in order to become a more perfect avatar of some philosophical concept is an excellent bit of existential horror. I hope that we get to see more of the fundamental otherness (in the cosmic horror sense) behind the facade of high level cultivators, and I also hope that we get a chance to really engage with these themes as LQ advances her cultivation.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was a fuck-up derived from focusing too much on cultivation and going "oh she's a cultivator now I guess it's fine", and not thinking enough about the fact that Renxiang was 6.
I believe I said it before, it likely comes from Shenhua not being able to hide/obfuscate the she is who she is. In that way that as much as propriety would want her to avoid being so obvious of her sexuality She just doesn't care. So when it came time to show little CRX the PLAN her aura blaster the child full on because she could finally see but didn't have any of the protections of higher cultivation.

But no, it definitely wasn't an accident that kind of thing isn't an, "oh no I should have been more careful." That's a "Prepare her with a vision of what she must aim towards and how far she has to climb, and make sure she never forgets it."

Because Shenhua has big plans and she can't afford for CRX to not have at least some awareness of what direction those plans are going to be heading. My guess with involving Medicine Saint Tong, is that Shenhua is going to be tapping a deeper well of cultivation of her own to try and make the child a little more able to handle the things that CRX as a Front facing and very LIGHT/PURITY individual can't.

On a tangent from the whole "white cultivator monster" thing, I have to say that I love yrsillar's take on cultivation. Having people gain power by carving off parts of their humanity in order to become a more perfect avatar of some philosophical concept is an excellent bit of existential horror. I hope that we get to see more of the fundamental otherness (in the cosmic horror sense) behind the facade of high level cultivators, and I also hope that we get a chance to really engage with these themes as LQ advances her cultivation.
Cultivation seemingly follows the Sword Logic which dictates that the strongest shape is one that can alter all other things without being altered itself. Once you have reached your final shape and can no longer be changed by the world, you have achieved Sovereignty and can Ascend.
 
My pet theory is that Shenhua had basically the same motivation as Renxiang: she wanted to see her daughter.

As a Viscount scion Shenhua probably didn't interact with Whites as a child until she had developed her own cultivation to around Green and, given her meteoric rise, probably didn't interact with them for a significant length of time until she was nearly their peer. Combined with sort of combining Red and Yellow in her head she likely overestimated the durability of a Red dramatically as well (especially given a six year old's dramatically weaker body). Her Way then making it so she doesn't hold back her power and accidentally broke CRX's body.

It was fundamentally an act of ignorance and selfishness compounded by a Way that is deeply hostile to childhood (uncompromising light does not mix with children). In theory she could probably have given child-CRX a bunch of talismans and a protective Cai dress that would have been sufficiently protective that they could have interacted safely in a room with carefully prepared formations designed from the ground up for CRX's safety. However she didn't think that such lengths would be necessary.

I sincerely doubt that Shenhua's plan was to have her daughter bleeding out in front of her.

On a tangent from the whole "white cultivator monster" thing, I have to say that I love yrsillar's take on cultivation. Having people gain power by carving off parts of their humanity in order to become a more perfect avatar of some philosophical concept is an excellent bit of existential horror. I hope that we get to see more of the fundamental otherness (in the cosmic horror sense) behind the facade of high level cultivators, and I also hope that we get a chance to really engage with these themes as LQ advances her cultivation.

You may wish to read the Trials of Lilijoy for another alien view on what cultivation is. The main character just recently entered what seems to be the third realm (maybe? Its unclear) and even the second realm is deeply alien to normal human experience.
 
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The Great Tomb Under the Gentle Moon
The Great Tomb Under The Gentle Moon


She knelt beside the placid pool, her eternal vigilance undisturbed on the sixth floor of the Great Tomb. Beneath the roof of her decrepit shrine, she watched the moon gently reflected upon the black still waters. Lunar phases would dance under her scrutiny, changing in an unceasing pattern, revealing to her truths of the world to whom she had none to speak about. An end, she knew, was coming. No events would precede it, no fanfare from the denizens of the world. There would be a simple tick of a clock, and then oblivion. It did not bother her. Emotion, thought, and reason were for the gods of the world, playing in a sandbox built to entertain and contain those far beyond her comprehension or care, not for her.

Although, of late, the gods had left this small sandbox. One by one, they departed into the unknown. Now, upon the cusp of annihilation, only a few remained. The pool showed them to her, gods charging through dungeons one last time, gazing up upon the sky with groups of comrades, or sitting on decrepit thrones before living statutes as the last lord of this terrible tomb. It mattered not to her. Her task was prophesying to those gods who asked questions about the world, of tragedies from the past, to occurrences in the present, to events prescribed to occur. If they cared not for what she had to say, she cared not for them.

With the final tick of the clock, annihilation came, and a new beginning flourished.

She who had no name felt emotion for the first time, felt the tricklings of thought course through her, and gained reason. Past events felt… weighter, now. Attached to them were emotions she had never felt before, but could always feel. Tears fell down her face, and as her head bent forward under the new weight of feeling, her long dark hair shielding her eyes for the first time from the visions bubbling and churning within the scrying pool. A new beginning had occurred. Something fundamental had shifted in the world, and she could not bear to think of what would be shown in the pool. But that was her duty, her purpose, the reason she was crafted by the Moonlight Musician, to peer at the pool and announce to those who sought wisdom what wisdom there was to share. And so, she lifted her head and peered into the empty water, and saw what was veiled by simple distance.

She saw a theocracy, crafting warriors and legions to fight for a twisted cause against an enemy they could not defeat. She saw a kingdom beset by crime, corruption, and carelessness struggling to maintain what little protection they had against their betters. She saw a blood-soaked empire who coveted that which was denied to them. She saw a nation divided by ideology and geography, barely threaded together by common enemies. She heard, though, a familiar gentle refrain echoing from the hanging moon. A song that she had not heard since her creation and placement in the Great Tomb. The Moonlit Musician was here. She, who had never left the pool, bound by her duty and purpose, knew that she was no longer alone. And that nothing, nothing would ever be the same again. In the distance, as a great flame was ignited in the Amphitheatrum, she knew that once again her visions would be needed. So, gathering up her shawl and dusting off her pure white dress, she began the trek to seek out Mare or Aura, her guardians and overseers. For the first time, she left her decrepit shack, and the pool, behind. It was time to greet the Great Lord Momonga properly.

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It was a simple matter to 'Message' Aura her request to meet the Great Lord Momonga. Unfortunately, the timing of her message could not have been worse as Aura was engaging in a loyalty ceremony before the Great Lord. Fortunately, it meant that he was already present on the 6th floor and did not have to take time to come down to meet a lowly servant such as herself. It was also fortunate, then, that the Great Lord wished to speak to her as well, so much so that Aura had been commanded to assist her travels through the 6th floor to reach the Arena. She merely wished that such a command had not resulted in her current predicament of clutching tightly to a monstrous wolf thundering across the jungle. It did save on the travel time though, and apparently there was a great need for information about the Shift.

As the great edifice of stone steadily grew closer, she wondered, what, exactly, she should say to highlight her importance to the future of Nazarick. She had not been crafted by the gods of this place, and as such was an outsider in a place where outsiders were regularly butchered and tortured for infringing upon the scared domicile. A fate she shuddered to contemplate now that she could feel. Those thoughts served as an unpleasant distraction before finally being brought before the Lord of Nazarick.

Even the Floor Guardians' impressive auras of power paled in comparison to the aura of death that emanated from the great skeletal lich in front of her. Clothed in fine robes and holding a golden wrought staff, his red eyes betrayed no hint of emotion, only cold calculating logic. Kneeling before him, she felt the weight of his power, the crushing grasp of his magic.

"What is your name?" Spoke the voice of a god, with no inflection in tone to indicate anything but mild boredom.

Steeling her voice to disguise the roiling emotions churning in her stomach, she answered the one question she dreaded above all others, "Other than the designation given to me and all my sisters, I have no name."

"Hmmm… then," Momonga began, "I shall give you one. In recognition of your duties, you shall be named Shiryoku. Now speak, Shiryoku, what matter did you wish to bring to my attention?"

"It is as you command, Lord Momonga. The matter, then, is this: you are not alone. I have heard the music of the Moonlit Musician reverberating from the Moon above. She is here, in this world, at this moment."

"Ohhh? A GM is here as well? Tell me then, Shiryoku, why can I not 'Message' her?"
"I would not begin to assume the matters of the gods, Lord Momonga. I can not say."

"Well then, heed my command to you Shiryoku. Stay by your pool and seek any sign of my comrades, should you come across news of them, report to me directly. Additionally, should you learn more about the whereabouts of the Moonlit Musician, report to me directly. If anything further is needed from you, I, or one of the Floor Guardians, will communicate such needs to you directly. Now go forth and do as I have commanded."

"As you say Lord Momonga."

Standing from her position before the great Lich, Shiryoku turned and walked away from the gathering of monsters. Her duty remained the same it seemed, but the purpose had changed. It was… odd for Lord Momonga to have commanded her without ensuring loyalty or obedience, but his goals aligned with hers. To seek out what other gods there were, and find the Moonlit Musician. Hopefully, they would want to be found, otherwise, this could be a fruitless task.

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Time passed by Shiryoku as she knelt beside her pool, days and nights becoming meaningless before the constant shifting of the lunar phases present in the water which had again stilled. A maid from Pleiades came for a time, repairing her shrine into something resembling proper order. But she cared not for the state of her abode, only for the state of the pool and the ever-present music she could hear at the edge of perception. It was difficult to pinpoint, where, exactly, the music resonated from. Some days it resonated strongest from the Theocracy, other days from the Kingdom. Often though, it was from Empire. With each shift, she would inform Lord Ainz Ooal Gown, as he was known now, and he would thank her before closing out the message. What changes he made to his intricate machinations she knew not.

There was some chaos with First Floor Guardian, but once she had confirmed that no god was in the area and the Moonlit Musician did not seem to be around, Shiryoku was ignored in favor of more pressing matters. Which was just as well. With fewer distractions, she could focus on interpreting the location of the music and pinpointing its location.

It was just… tedious, now. Sitting here, with full faculties and emotions, without any real interaction with the outside world was slowly growing dull. The inescapable purpose grinding at her will now that she had the choice. Music seemed to help, even humming a simple tune drew her mind away from the tedium. Now, though, she had advanced to more complicated tunes and was attempting to hum the music of the Moonlit Musician. Upon humming such a tune, however, something unexpected occurred. The music reverberated through the pool, touching upon the very melody that always seemed to drift from the moon. Slowly, a soft mist filled her shrine, softly drifting up from the pool. A cool hand of mist laid on her shoulder, comforting in a way nothing had since awakening in the Great Tomb.

"I am coming, young one." Came the whisper on the wind. "I shall arrive soon enough."

Then, the feeling of a hand left and the mist drew inward to the pool, vanishing with nary a breath.

With trembling hands, Shiryoku instigated a 'Message' to Lord Ainz Ooal Gown, to convey the information that she had learned. It seemed, she thought have hysterically, that excitement would be coming for her now.

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Plans were scrapped of course, with the news that a foreign god would be arriving at the Great Tomb, but some schemes had already begun with no time to safely stop them. The primary frustration was the soon to arrive tomb raiders, coming to test the defenses of Nazarick and allow for forceful negotiations with the Empire to begin. That frustration soon turned to dread, though, when Shiryoku learned that the music was most decidedly traveling with the workers. Specifically, one group of them.

A group of four, two blonde men and two girls, one short with blonde hair and the other tall and lithe with purple hair. It was decided that the group would be quickly teleported to the 6th floor so that Lord Ainz Ooal Gown could properly greet the Moonlit Musician, or to determine why the group reverberated with her song.

Shiryoku's job was, in a way, simple. To simply stand and assist in ensuring that the Moonlit Musician didn't believe that this was an elaborate plan to trap her or attack her. But all of that planning, all the speeches and statements, all of it fled away the moment the Worker group stepped into the Arena.

Mist and melody rose and engulfed everything, casting everything in an impenetrable veil of twilight. High above, secreted away by cloud and distance, the moon seemed to dance to the drifting song. Illusions of endless deserts, impossibly tall mountains, abyssal lakes, and everlasting forests seemed to flash and twirl through the mist. Phantoms of fantastical creatures blurred in and out of vision, swirling through a dance she did not know where the movements hurt the eyes to perceive.

Through it all, Shiryoku could feel more than see the Moonlit Musician, clad in garments of glimmering night accented by chilled winds striding through the mist, a melody of terrible loneliness reverberating with every single step. Phantoms froze in her path, only to break and transform into something different with her passing.

Softly, the Moonlit Musician spoke, and Shiryoku could not hear the words, too soft for someone of her station to understand. But as the melody flowed around her, weaving around her an impossible story, the mist shifted. An end had come, but so had a beginning.

A/N: Well, I'm glad that this is out of my skull. As always, I hope you read and enjoy, and, as is tradition, another omake for the omake throne @yrsillar!
 
I'm guessing the Moonlit Musician is Ling Qi? What's the background story for her being there?
 
I'm guessing the Moonlit Musician is Ling Qi? What's the background story for her being there?
Yep, the Moonlit Musician is Ling Qi. As for the background, Ling Qi was shunted through a terrible unforeseeable confluence of events that defies description into the world that Yggdrasil was developed. Through more, albeit mundane, events Ling Qi worked on and became a GM of said game. One of the tasks her position demanded was to prepare and execute various events of the world, which was helped by the Pool Watchers who could be visited at certain dungeons (The Tomb of Nazarick being one) to obtain a hint about a future event. In addition to such authority, Ling Qi developed a very unique avatar with unique abilities, coining the name Moonlit Musician as her title.

Then, working a late shift ensuring that nothing happened at the end of Yggdrasil, the game shifted players to the New World carrying Ling Qi along with. So now she is a being like Momonga, crafted with very specific intentions to achieve a specific result. Ling Qi's desire, however, was to achieve a semblance of what she had before being thrown out of FoD. And now, in the New World, she finds that her form is much more comfortable than the previous mortal body she inhabited.

That, however, doesn't stop the almost overpowering loneliness of being separated from her family by distances and means she still has not been able to comprehend. But she is working on that, and maybe in a world of real magic, actual progress can be made in tearing a way back Home.
 
Tfw you start out neutral but at the last moment before finding out it's locked already are swayed towards the vote that lost )=

"We didn't do the reasonable useful good thing before" is not a reason to not do the reasonable useful good thing in the future either.
 
Tfw you start out neutral but at the last moment before finding out it's locked already are swayed towards the vote that lost )=

"We didn't do the reasonable useful good thing before" is not a reason to not do the reasonable useful good thing in the future either.
...Sorry, what are you saying exactly?
 
...Sorry, what are you saying exactly?

I think they're referring back to paragraphs 3-5 of this post, specifically, with "we didn't do the reasonable useful thing before":

Exploring using the moon map for a place to build a garden is silly. Nothing about the project of the garden requires any special location. This is missing the point of the project, and Zhengui's goals, completely. An entirely mundane garden achieves what Zhengui wants just fine. In fact, considering he wants a place that the entire family can hang out in and enjoy, some location off in the depths of the wilderness is actively counterproductive because of the difficulty it adds for Qingge and Biyu getting to visit.

Ling Qi's cultivation of Wind Thief was concretely available to her as something she could approach and dedicate time towards. Flouncing about in the woods was a means to the end of cultivating the art that ended up having value on its own thematically. The same relationship does not exist here for exploration, and nothing about the Wind Thief scene opened up any narrative doors or laid hooks for further moon intrigue.

As it stands, there's just no real objective in exploring. It's not clear what Ling Qi would search for, she does not have established habits as exploring for exploration's sake, and nothing in recent narrative presents any motivation towards starting at this moment. Flatly, you're wrong, SSC does not motivate Ling Qi, because it never has. There isn't a single instance of that being true, anywhere in the story. You're fixated on an ought, one I happen to agree with you on, rather than what is.

Yes, Ling Qi's behaviour should match the themes of SSC more, but it doesn't. And because it doesn't, it hasn't, I don't find SSC's existence as a convincing argument for a certain course of action. Yes, we learned MSS in part because it matches the aspirations inherent to SSC. But this hasn't come to anything, and the specific way it didn't was Ling Qi being close-minded and incurious when there was an opportunity for spiritual exploration. Given that, it doesn't make sense to me that she'd suddenly attain an urgent sympathy to repeat the exercise.

The whole thing can sit on a shelf until there's a proper opportunity to start living up to basic character concepts, in my opinion. I'm not in a big rush to disappoint ourselves again.


Can we just actually engage with Zhengui instead of constantly injecting third parties into everything? Actually tapping into Mother Moon juice would just throw everything off track. It wouldn't improve the arc at all.

I think the essential point of "exploration votes aren't likely to be character inflection points" has merit. (E: Or, rather, "they're unlikely to inflect in the incredibly specific way you want," since exploration is such an inherently variable thing compared to other actions.)
 
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Its pretty sad how Exploration fell to the Cultivation Crunch. Its a gift that we just didnt take full advantage of.
We've done it twice before in this thread (and more times back in Forge). It's definitely neat and worth doing again the next time our schedule opens up. But art modding is something we've never even tried, and especially given that yrsillar has been doing such a good job lately of showing off the philosophical side of arts, engaging with that directly and trying to make our own mark on our arts for the very first time just seems like a great opportunity -- and since it's lower-stakes than successor creation (especially when modding HDW), trying out modding before we start our successor art makes a lot of sense for Ling Qi to do.
 
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As long a group is determining plans based on an "optimal" allocation of resources, pulled from a set of axioms...

No. We won't. As long as those axioms hold, there will always be a new art, or some other invention to justify playing statically and just rushing forward.
I mean. One of those long-range planners was the person who proposed the plan that had Explore in it. Also, we've explored on two separate turns this thread, spending 3 total AP on it, so your supposition is flawed out of the gates: we've already done this, despite that group existing and determining plans.

Besides. Art modding is not playing statically and rushing forward. It is an experiment; we don't know exactly what it will do or what it will give us. It will probably not directly increase our power. It's a risk. It's something completely new to the thread.
 
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Unless the locations scale with us (which as a quest is possible), the Map is already losing some of its utility. And if some of the locations are cultivation sites or drugs of some sort, then that just increases the depreciation.
Trials, like the bloody moon event, will always have high value. Moon Sempai is still trying his hand at that one. We also got the mirror from a location on the map. Finding more material of that quality will keep jump starting our fief in further. I actually think sites and drugs are the least valuable thing to find now. There are vastly more interesting and useful things to find in around the sect.
 
. I actually think sites and drugs are the least valuable thing to find now. There are vastly more interesting and useful things to find in around the sect.
Sites and drugs has the possibility of freeing up our greatest resource. AP.

And I agree about more things being possibly more interesting/valuable. But more Moon Stuff is just too tempting an upside.
 
Mmm, drugs don't seem to be a thing anymore. We now get pills from the shop gacha, and yrs seems to be being very careful not to give us super broken drugs like we had last year.

Anyway, my position on exploration is two-fold: first, that this isn't the best time for it narratively - the space it would usually fill is being used by the War. Second: the AP concerns are honestly overdone. We do not need to hit G5 by, uh, turn 15 I think the current plan is? Our growth is already really really good. We can absolutely spare the odd AP for exploration and other things somewhere down the line (though admittedly things might get tighter if we start needing to burn AP on duties).
 
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