Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.

As an individual who advocated for archery in the past thread, I have come to agree that archery doesn't really have a relevant place in the build that the thread is constructing and the roles that Ling Qi will engage in for combat and social maneuvering.

First off, I would be careful in categorizing Ling Qi as a trickster simply because of her connection to the Grinning Moon because I think that Ling Qi doesn't typically adhere to that facet of the Grinning Moon. For the Grinning Moon is more than simply a trickster, it is also about freedom of movement, of not being restricted by such petty things as guards or security, but also of enjoying the moment, of having fun in the action. Those, I think, are more relevant to Ling Qi path forward as a cultivator than the facet of the Grinning Moon reserved for trickery. Even her domain creates the distinction with little to nothing involving the tricking of an enemy but having significant capability in not being stopped or restricted.

Next, Ling Qi can already act from distance with anonymity. Her Roaming Moon Eye allows for remote scrying and spying of various locations and factions, and such capabilities seem to be increasing in said art as we develop it further. Such capability of information gathering is useful when conducting information-gathering missions such as our foray into the Corrupted Caverns or, although we haven't yet done it, information gathering excursions against the Cloud Nomads. But, I think, your position is more that the ability to project force and essentially scare an enemy remotely and anonymously has value to Ling Qi. If that is your position, then I would have to disagree. We have seen that Ling Qi is more than capable of ambushing Cloud Nomad groups through stealth and AoE arts, essentially tearing apart groups of nomads quickly and without warning. Her speed allows her to interact with multiple groups of raiders in a substantial tract of land, her stealth allows her to intercept Cloud Nomad groups without warning, and her AoE capabilities allow her to churn through the chaff of such groups quickly and with relative ease. In light of such capabilities, projecting force from range seems largely redundant when she can ambush groups and wipe them out before moving on to the next group. This is further compounded that such a projection of force is likely to do little to the Cloud Nomads who themselves engage in long-range high mobility warfare. They will have the means to prevent any damage from such warning shots unless we invest heavily in archery. And investing so heavily into archery defies the purpose of lightly investing for utility purposes.

As for the direction of our build? It seems to be moving much more solidly into the realm of battlefield control rather than support, especially when we are working with individuals we care little for individually. BKSD and UGM both provide powerful means of repositioning our opponent to deny them attacks or place them in worse positions, and our domain itself can cause problems for individuals trying to escape, compounded by BKSD and UGM movement controlling abilities. In light of our AoE capabilities and Battlefield control aspects, our support options are relatively anemic, our domain notwithstanding. As such, I would say that in general, we are much more powerful as a battlefield control operative than as a support character. This further compounds when one considers our place in the army. As a stealthy high-mobility asset, we are perfect for infiltration and extraction missions for information gathering when operating solo. Our battlefield control abilities enhance our ability to work together with a team which makes us a stealthy difficult to pin down disruption asset for a team fight. I just don't see how adding archery in any meaningful way enhances what we can already do.

I think archery is a fun hobby for Ling Qi to use in social situations, where her role has not been as clearly defined, but in terms of serious competitions and battlefield maneuvers, she just doesn't seem to need archery to do what she wants to do or stop others from doing what they want to do.

As a side note regarding Cai's build, I think that it is actually a bit of understated genius for Yrs to make a mega-bureaucrat into a powerful dispeller. Bureaucrats' most powerful moment is when they tell others "No," and outside of that, they have little power. But the ability to stop others from doing what they want to do makes bureaucrats frustrating to deal with, and potentially dangerous, especially in a world of cultivation with arts and techniques. And, I think, that the massive damage that Cai can do is actually a logical bridge that a mega dispeller could deal a lot of uninterrupted damage because the opponent has no means of stopping said damage.

But that is my two cents, that as Ling Qi's build becomes more pronounced, her need and desire for archery to be a useful utility aspect decreases because of our own increasing abilities in stealth, mobility, AoE's, and Battlefield control. Furthermore, as we advance up the ranks of cultivation, the investment needed in archery becomes prohibitively costly for any minor utility it could bring and such investment is better spent on improving our own core capabilities, or protecting our core capabilities (such as dispell protection). As such, I think that the turning point for Ling Qi to be an archer, even only tangentially, has passed, and going back to archery now will be too costly for any benefit we might receive.
1. Ling Qi as a trickster.

Yes, she hasn't been acting as one, for reasons including the strict rule-based nature of the Inner Sect and Ling Qi's preference for not rocking the boat.

But she has enjoyed acting as a trickster every time she got to, consistently from the start of the quest. Her increased War skill manifested through her processing battles as heists. The "sticky fingered hurricane" followed up by Ling Qi running to the market in the middle of the night to buy stealth shoes was one of the most joyful personalized character moments we got.

This is I suppose a character development direction preference: I believe Ling Qi should expand on her trickster-iness in the future when she gets out of the strict structure of the Inner Sect, and also whenever she gets the capability within it. She has the aesthetic and the Arts for it already, with MSS and generally fae-like themes.

2. Ambushing groups and wiping them out is a capability Ling Qi has. She does not have the capability to project force from range when she cannot do the former for some reason (needing to be elsewhere and not being able to commit to a longer fight, the presence of higher realm combatants she can only successfully flee from a larger distance etc), and one is not a substitute for the other.

3. A point about the Cloud Nomads' anti-archery defense is good. I still think Ling Qi could spook their Reds and Yellows from ambush (and I do believe it's valuable to be able to do so from another mountain peak), but yeah if I believed Ling Qi's future lies specificially in fighting this war I wouldn't be advocating for an archery dip.

Archery is for places that aren't an active battlefield, and so battlefield control abilities are highly inappropriate.

Did you remember last time we met Cloud Tribes? You know, that time when they tried their best to massacre every villager they see? At that point harassing them with arrows is the same as asking them to kill all mortal folk they can before leaving for next village. You know why? Because there was a lot of them. Harrasing some wouldn't send the message. The only reason they fleed that time is because LQ overpowered their leader who was really close cultivation-wise. And now think of what would have happened if we used Archery against him, even presuming that we had good bow and good Archery Art. Prolonged standoff. Without dealing enough damage it doesn't matter if we can harass him at any part of battlefield. If I were him I would stall for time and use his own archers to harass LQ, stack multi attacker bonuses and reduce our chances to actually hitting him.
I'm not saying that Archery is bad for Stealth missions, on the contrary. But it's pretty niche, because at this level we can finish most stealth missions without needing to harass anyone at all.


What peers? Name someone other than HanJian with good support Arts at that point and even now.

Yes, I remember that time when driving them off was a sufficient and complete victory, yes.

No, archery would not have been a good pick in that particular situation. It's not the only one we'll ever deal with.

Most of what you suggest relies on archery working the same way and having the same innate advantages among immortals as it does irl. But it doesn't. Archery here is not about an arrows, it's about qi. And qi can be applied through music just as well.

An archer can be tracked through their qi. Arrows have harder time hurting people than songs because spiritual defence is often neglected. Powerful archery arts can be traced towards specific user with a decently narrow result. Archery DPS is questionable when compared to spamming buffed CtE from far range every turn.

To get something actually worthwile, it will have to be a significant investment. Perhaps if Ling Qi wasn't trying to be a musician, a diplomat, a spy, a fighter, a thief and a scout there would be an opportunity. But not as it is now and probably not in foreseeable future.

Okay, so the qi is a good point. I believe however that the way Yrsillar is building this world, modes of combat / weapons are meant to have their unique advantages amplified and made more distinct at higher realms even as new interactions (like punching the music) arise among them, not blurred into a single 'just use qi' misshapen mass.

I don't think it's as easy to track an archer by qi they left on an arrow as it is to identify "oh, that's Ling Qi" when she starts up a song.

And where did I suggest getting a powerful non-generic archery art? Taking a low Green FSA successor from the Archive that half the archers out there use would be the entire point for this.

And I've already given my thoughts on Ling Qi's multiple specialities. They synergize, and this would synergize with the whole they form as well.

As for "not now": agreed. Not until Ling Qi is at the point where branching out further is a reasonable option to take. I just expect one will come, if not exactly IRL "soon".
 
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But she has enjoyed acting as a trickster every time she got to, consistently from the start of the quest. Her increased War skill manifested through her processing battles as heists. The "sticky fingered hurricane" followed up by Ling Qi running to the market in the middle of the night to buy stealth shoes was one of the most joyful personalized character moments we got.
Honestly the fact that we don't have any incentive to pick up a Grinning Moon Larceny Art or train any thief related non-combat skills is bugging me. Like, the Inner Sect isn't the Outer but it'd still have been nice to have a reason to spy on people or look around their spaces in preparation of our future duties. Hopefully the Intrigue mechanic may give us opportunities to practice investigating our peers through subterfuge the way CRX will no doubt use us in the future.
 
Eh, Larceny is inherently a covert hostile action, the Sect has enforced a ceasefire on inter-Disciple conflict, and the external conflict was just too direct, when people are throwing armies around stealing items is more of a general stealth test than Larceny.

And for the matter, Renxiang has since changed her mind on using Ling Qi as the intrigue hand, because while she's stealthy she's not really temperamentally suited to black ops, while in Renxiang's position, most people who deserve it can have direct action applied instead.

So its fairly unlikely that we NEED to use Larceny outside of scouting missions.
 
Also, Larceny is just a single aspect of the Grinning Moon. One which Ling Qi wants to distance herself from if it means disadvantaging others which has done her no wrong.
 
Eh, Larceny is inherently a covert hostile action, the Sect has enforced a ceasefire on inter-Disciple conflict, and the external conflict was just too direct, when people are throwing armies around stealing items is more of a general stealth test than Larceny.

And for the matter, Renxiang has since changed her mind on using Ling Qi as the intrigue hand, because while she's stealthy she's not really temperamentally suited to black ops, while in Renxiang's position, most people who deserve it can have direct action applied instead.

So its fairly unlikely that we NEED to use Larceny outside of scouting missions.
That's my point, we could have had reasons to practice infiltration and spycraft, not just stealing, before and even after the ceasefire. That we don't need stealth outside of scouting isn't because it isn't useful but because we simply haven't been presented with those kind of opportunities. Like, what if CRX needed to figure out why the Meng are... something and sent us to follow Meng De and see what he's up to. Or Li Suyin has a rival crafter and want to know what they're making so we infiltrate their workshop in the span of a few paragraphs and tell her what we saw. The lack of opportunities doesn't mean there aren't possible ones in this mix of high school and court.

CRX saw LQ's potential as a diplomat and decided to encourage that and add it to her official duties. That does not mean she won't also be used for subterfuge as initially intended. One does not exclude the other and LQ is predisposed to, cultivating, and has a great potential to act as CRX's left hand, not to mention best friends with Thousand Lakes future spymistress.
Also, Larceny is just a single aspect of the Grinning Moon. One which Ling Qi wants to distance herself from if it means disadvantaging others which has done her no wrong.
Larceny is to Ling Qi much like fighting. Enjoyable on some levels, unfortunate when it's necessary because she doesn't want to hurt people even if she doesn't care about them, but ultimately it's a kill or be killed world. That's why she doesn't believe in CRX's dream, because she knows the strong takes from the weak. Her whole reason for cultivating is so that she can become stronger and protect those she loves. That involves hurting other people, through violence or theft, and even if she thinks it's demeaning she's a selfish, practical girl that values her and hers survival and happiness far above all else.
 
I would strongly suggest that we follow our own path rather than think about how we can make ourselves be useful to CRX. The difference is not large right now but it is important.

Our loyalty should be to Cai Renxiang, not to Cai Renxiang. To her as a person rather than her as an official. Yes this will be awkward for everyone involved but that's already inherent to our relationship.
 
Ling Qi's association with the Grinning Moon this whole time were "the fun part".

No, she doesn't want to do unprovoked wrongs to people who've done her no harm. She's not opposed to pranks though, and for that matter she's got enemies aplenty that she would 100% not mind fucking up somehow. Hell, friendly Larceny action - planting helpful notes, etc - is possible.
 
There is a perfectly solid direction for larceny to go when on a war footing and that's the ever-so-useful ability to just up and steal an army.

I don't know if it's phantasmagoria's endgame, but Liao Zhu dumping his opponent in Dream allows me to believe it is possible. Families being about people make this a logical endgame too: stuff is just stuff, but when it comes to things that matter...

Well, it's still people. :V

Plus, if we can carry bad people in our pocket, we can also carry good people and that makes it a bug out option too.
 
Ling Qi's association with the Grinning Moon this whole time were "the fun part".

No, she doesn't want to do unprovoked wrongs to people who've done her no harm. She's not opposed to pranks though, and for that matter she's got enemies aplenty that she would 100% not mind fucking up somehow. Hell, friendly Larceny action - planting helpful notes, etc - is possible.
With Biyu's recent description as mischievous I hope the dancing lessons evolves into sneaking lessons as well. Biyu being taught how to move with silent grace as Qi hovers over her shoulders. Playing pranks with the servants and people around town. Mother cannot know.
 
Turn 9: Arc 3-2
"You know, I have to ask, what brought this on?" Sixiang asked curiously.

Ling Qi was silent as she stared down at her dress, lying spread out on the bed. The silk seemed to ripple under the light, the intricate patterns stitched along the hems shifting and dancing subtly.

Standing here, wearing mundane silks, Ling Qi felt deeply uncomfortable. Contrary to what some rumors said, she did change out of her clothes at times. She still bathed, she still set the dress aside when going to sleep, though that was rare. Sometimes on particularly lazy days she would even wear her sleeping shift into the meditation room.

This would be the first time she had gone out without it in a long time though.

"I don't think I can cultivate Wind Thief well while wearing this," Ling Qi said, still looking down at the dress. "At least… not at first."

She felt pressure, as if Sixiang was resting their chin on her shoulder and leaning against her back. "I don't think talisman's interfere with cultivation, even ones like that."

"The dress won't interfere, but I think my mindset will," Ling Qi said thoughtfully. "It's too safe."

Sixiang was silent for a moment. "You don't think you'll be able get the full lessons of the art if you're feeling safe?"

"That's why I'm going off alone too," Ling Qi said. "If you could, I'd like you to stay dormant or cultivate internally yourself, while I'm doing this.."

"...Ling Qi, are you planning to do something crazy?" Sixiang asked warily.

"I'm not planning too," Ling Qi said lightly.

They sighed. "...Just stay safe crazy girl, we still have dance lessons to do."

"Wouldn't miss it for the world," Ling Qi laughed.

Sixiang faded, and she was left alone.

Except, that wasn't really true, was it?

Ling Qi reached down and traced her fingers along the folds of her gown. The silk was cool, and the energies infusing it thrummed at her touch. "I'll be back soon, okay?" She said quietly.

And then she was gone, a shadow passing through the door.

She had to go before she could change her mind.

***​


She left things behind one by one as she traveled north, into the depths of the forest which surrounded the Sect. One by one, meridians that thrummed with energy went still and quiescant. For the first time in over a year, she let the layered protection of her arts go silent.

It was nerve wracking. Her senses felt dull and muted, and her limbs felt too heavy and light all at once. The faint sounds of the forest beasts and the rustling of leaves raised the hairs on her neck. For the first time in many months, Ling Qi felt the faintest thrill of fear at the thought of traversing the woods. She felt small and weak and vulnerable, and it made her stomach clench.

But she wasn't a mortal anymore.

She leapt, and sailed meters through the air, to land on a branch which did not bend under her weight. She ran and rough bark, stones and thorns tore at her mundane clothing, but her flesh was inviolate. The darkness did not impede her eyes, and the cold chill of the night did not touch her. The mist that curled in the roots rose to her call, and trailed after the ragged hem of her dress like noblewoman's train.

She had changed, and the things she wore, the arts she practiced, were only the outermost difference. When she arrived at the moon drenched tower where sometimes lunatic revelers danced, she did not strain as she lifted the boulder which had fallen across the entrance. Ascending the crumbling stairs, she did not need an art to hear the echoes of revelry gone.

The tower was empty tonight, there was no gibbous moon hanging above, but only a thin grinning crescent, half hidden behind the clouds. But even if the dusty stones were quiet, the air was thick with moonlight. A single jump carried her twelve meters into the air, to alight upon the splintered end of a long petrified rafter, a second carried her to the highest point of the crumbling tower, and her bare feet came to rest on broken stone.

There, for a moment, Ling Qi stood still, and looked out over the darkened canopy over the forest and the twinkling night sky above. She looked down at her hands, flexing her fingers. Gone were the little scars and calluses of a hard life. Her skin was as smooth as the most sheltered of courtesans. She was not a beauty, but there were none save her mother who would connect the ragged and desperate child of Tonghou to the Immortal who stood here now.

Ling Qi could not call herself a thief anymore. She was a musician, a sister, and a soldier. She was a burgeoning diplomat, taking the first shaky steps into intrigue. She had abandoned her apathy, and chosen to believe that the idea of an improving world was not a childish fantasy.

"I've left a lot of your lessons behind," Ling Qi said to the empty sky. There were many things from those cruel years that she had put behind her, and though she retained some, others she had rejected, one by one. "Total freedom is a lie," she said softly.

The moon twinkled overhead, silent.

"Living only for yourself is empty and childish, and only the mighty and the foolish can pretend that it offers anything but misery and destruction," Ling Qi said thoughtfully. "Such a life is the life of a rabid beast."

Ling Qi held out her hand and watched the play of moonlight, filtered by the clouds on her skin. "But it isn't wrong to do things for yourself. Some chains should be broken, some rules are wrong. It isn't wrong to want to fly, as long as you remember your landing."

There was a charge in the air, an attention that she could feel, beating down on her mind. "It isn't wrong to steal the wind from its vault, to let it out into the world."

Beneath her, the ground, the forest and the Sect dropped away. She stood now on a promontory of crumbling stone, over a ravine miles deep, its bottom hidden even to her eyes. It was a fall even she could not survive. Below were the Gods, cruel and greedy, with all the riches and wonders of the world in their vaults.

And she was just one girl, so very small in the end. What madness could possess her, to think that she could defy the gods so?

Ling Qi smiled to herself, and stepped out into the open air.

The wind screamed in her ears as she plunged downward, and Ling Qi's heart pounded with it. The walls of the ravine blurred by, and the cold stone below beckoned. This was a dream, but dreams were real enough in their way.

The Grinning moon was many things, it rejected constraints, all constraints, this she refused. It loved cleverness and tricks, and this she accepted. She recalled vaguely a text she had read last year, claiming that the Grinning Moon was not the patron of criminals, but clever investigators. She had found it odd at the time, but she now knew it was not wrong.

The Grinning Moon did not care about goals, it did not care about motivations. Perhaps it's manifestations and avatars did, but the moon did not. The Grinning Moon was a thing of action and movement. Call it a heist or a sting, a casing or an investigation, the moon cared not. It only cared that you acted, that you sought to live and run and fly, to match your mind against others and come out on top.

As the ground approached, solid and inviolate, Ling Qi came to understand the core virtue of the Grinning Moon. That which underlaid all the rest.

Self Assurance.

Ling Qi looked at the approaching ground, and felt dormant meridians churn to life. The howl of the wind transformed into her laughter, and the shadows of the ravine closed in as a welcoming embrace.

She looked at the ground, and decided that she wasn't falling anymore.

Yet she could not defy the Law of Earth, anymore than any infant could defy the Law of their mother. But what parent did not know the mischief which a child could get up to, before the Law could be enforced?

Ling Qi became the wind and the shadow, and her momentum changed. She shot through the air, parallel to the ground, at a speed fit to strip a mortal's flesh from their bones. As the wind, she cared not. Feet and toes grew solid for one moment as her slowed descent carried her down into the depths of the ravine. There, her feet skipped across stone, and muscles filled with the force of hurricane flexed, granting her flight for a few more glorious moments.

She passed into the winding tunnels of the gods vaults, a mere whisper and laughing breeze. There she passed the halls of the gods, where they lounged in great coiled masses of muscle and umber scales, lying redolent before the great and never ending feast of meat and wine laid out at their feet. Power and luxury both beyond comprehension, treated with lax contempt.

But their own might was their undoing, and Ling Qi became one of the numberless and faceless slaves who served the meal. A mere mote of dust, under the notice of the mighty. So vast was their excess, that none noted the disappearance of even the most potent wine, nor the fleeting shadow that had once been a servant.

In the halls were innumerable defenses, mighty runes carved into stone to bar the entrance of foes and thieves alike. Alas for pride, that none deigned notice the movements of a mouse, designed as they were to fend off the machinations of gods. Beyond them at last, lay the vault of winds.

How mighty the door, how glittering the gems, all the riches of the deep earth on display. How impenetrable and secure, ten thousand locks bound by ten thousand spirits!

How neglected the beauty, dust dimming the fire of the earth's riches. How lax, the care, locks rusted and spirits disquieted by disuse. How foolish the gatekeeper, who accepted a bowl of most potent wine from a humble servant, a gift from his masters!

Within lay a simple bag of golden hide, bulging with the pressure of the winds, and as her deft fingers undid the ties, the first to emerge was…

[] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)
[] The warm western wind, herald of spring (enhances Avoid effects of art)
[] The cold south wind, which cut to the bone (enhances offensive aspects of art)
[] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)
 
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"I've left a lot of your lessons behind," ling Qi said to the empty sky. There were many things from those cruel years that she had put behind her, and though she retained some, others she had rejected, one by one. "Total freedom is a lie," she said softly.

The moon twinkled overhead, silent.

"Living only for yourself is empty and childish, and only the mighty and the foolish can pretend that it offers anything but misery and destruction," Ling Qi said thoughtfully. "Such a life is the life of a rabid beast."

Ling Qi held out her hand and watched the play of moonlight, filtered by the clouds on her skin. "But it isn't wrong to do things for yourself. Some chains should be broken, some rules are wrong. It isn't wrong to want to fly, as long as you remember your landing."

There was a charge in the air, an attention that she could feel, beating down on her mind. "It isn't wrong to steal the wind from its vault, to let it out into the world."
This rules.
She looked at the ground, and decided that she wasn't falling anymore.
:o

This is one of the coolest chapters and some of the best writing I've seen in this entire pair of quests.
 
[] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)

Hrmm... Plays into what Xuan Shi has previously called Ling Qi, as the Harbinger of Storms. BUT I will say that mechanically, speed and initiative are sort of strange and arbitrary.

[] The warm western wind, herald of spring (enhances Avoid effects of art)

Eh. We're already the herald of winter. Being a herald of spring? Feels like mixed messages.

[] The cold south wind, which cut to the bone (enhances offensive aspects of art)


Meh. Don't care about offense in a mobility art. Leave that to FSS.

[] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)


I guess. It's not calling to me - Ling Qi doesn't really do unnoticed anymore.
 
[] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)

he who hits first hits twice
 
[X] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)
[X] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)


You cannot erase the SMILE in my face right now
 
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[X] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)

[X] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)


i am a simple man. Big speed or big stealth plz.
 
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This was a really cool update. Very Mythical.

[] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)

Most intrested in this. This is a bonus going by previous vote so would be nice to gain a perk on stealth considering we are probably going to do more of those and that it falls under something LQ enjoys.
 
It does, yeah.

[] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)
[] The warm western wind, herald of spring (enhances Avoid effects of art)
[] The cold south wind, which cut to the bone (enhances offensive aspects of art)
[] the gentle eastern wind, unnoticed by all (enhances stealth effects of art)

Hmm.

Don't know what I want to pick yet from these, other than not "cold south."
 
Shit, I didn't think that Ling Qi was going to take off her armor-dress and then just head back into the Dreaming tower. It seems kinda dumb to not have one of her most useful talismans when wandering off like this.
 
[] The tempestuous northern wind, bringer of storms (Enhances speed and initiative effects of art)

Cackling Ling Qi, escaping, and taunting her enemies seems too awesome to pass up. It also lines up with the "poor mortal challenging gods ".
 
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