For one, we got a pretty big clue that the Wind Thief is an art that could definitely go the distance to White. The story itself is one of the Grinning Moon's ascension. Whether Ling Qi would take it all the way there or branch off to an incompatibility later on(at least, unless she intends to ascend as a facet of the Grinning Moon, its likely that the 'official' Wind Thief+'s insights may not align with Ling Qi's way, though on the flip side its an ancient enough art that there's probably at least one variant which fits), is still in question.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Ukraine
- Pronouns
- She/They
Honestly I think Ling Qi could very much use archery in her combat suite still.
Wait, don't leave, I can explain!
Okay, so first of all, the whole 'dropping the flute to the floor to use the bow' thing was always silly. Literally tying the flute to a string and hanging it either on Ling Qi's neck or her wrist would fix that and that she never did it and actually had to pick it up off the floor during the puppetmaster base assault is absurd.
Second, all of Ling Qi's current arts are mid-range and require her to reveal her presence (if not her exact location - tactical stealth but not strategic stealth). Which is good in some modes of combat, but Ling Qi alrady has the 'stealth and speed' part of 'annoying asshole stealth sniper you cannot catch' down. A pure Wind archery art, without FSA's wide spreading Heavens silliness, not to compete with the flute, but to be used where the flute is not viable - in urban environments with lots of friendly targets you want to keep entirely unaware, against opponents higher up in rank who can power right through Ling Qi's area effects with dispels but will be at least mosquito-bit by archery DPS, in situations where Ling Qi doesn't want to reveal her identity... At larger distances.
Yes, we'll also need a sniper perception art to complement the archery art if we want to go long distance with it.
Yes, right now we've already got a coherent build and none of the looming challenges call for this expansion.
Yes, our AP are all spoken for by Math Cabal until the end of the sect.
...Incidentally, we can only start getting urban environment / hidden identity challenges after the end of the sect.
Whew, got that out of my system.
P.S. A proper bard is a jack of all trades, capable of filling any missing slot in a team at least a little - that's part of the support role for this archetype. This particular capability can be added to Ling Qi's build at significant synergy with her existing arts and talents, and while right now the marginal cost in AP is not worth it - if we ever get stuck before breakthrough we don't meet requirements for, I do believe that in-universe broadening one's foundation by branching out in arts is a traditional way to act in that situation for a dedicated never-stop-cultivating master.
P.P.S. Does Ling Qi's domain currently have health regen effects? If not or if only for high bond, a healing art, probably of lower potency because it doesn't need to oppose any arts and doesn't need to be at primary specialty level of usefulness, could be a good round-out addition.
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- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
A fighting chance? The vote is pretty close.
Sometimes people are conflicted on a vote, so they vote for the lower party of the two they favor, in order to provide an easier reversal.
In this case for instance, I'm similarly conflicted, but weighed in on going for the dress in the end because some of the anti-dress arguments were very dubious fearmongering, even if I personally preferred the Art bonus(as can be seen by most of my arguments ending up on the side of the Art Bonus being genuinely good and Wind Thief likely to go with us through and past Green). As a result, whichever wins, I'm comfortable with my decision.
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- Location
- California
[X] Train Wind Thief without your Cai Dress ( +0.2 multiplier, Art Bonus)
What a contentious vote. Was looking to be a landslide win at first too.
What a contentious vote. Was looking to be a landslide win at first too.
[X] Train Wind Thief without your Cai Dress ( +0.2 multiplier, Art Bonus)
- Location
- the internet
I'm fine with either outcome because some arguments for 'without dress' option were really very good points..on the other hand, I really am excited to see a glimpse of the Dress spirit that is to come! I don't think its gonna be nearly as much as what some people are staying but still. I also think LFWT will still get narrative presence in the future even if it doesn't get as much next update. I'm fine with either option, tbh.
- Location
- Espoo, Finland
If dress spirit is affected by what Ling Qi does - especially cultivates - while it is worn then I feel like Wind Thief is an art that is excellent choice for giving a direction to it. I don't feel strongly about dress currently, but that is because it does not have any personality yet. I am hopeful that if we cultivate Wind Thief while wearing dress then it will have spirit that matches Ling Qi more closely.
[X] Train Wind Thief while wearing your Cai Dress (-0.2 multiplier. Dress Reaction)
[X] Train Wind Thief while wearing your Cai Dress (-0.2 multiplier. Dress Reaction)
- Location
- Computer Desk
[X] Train Wind Thief without your Cai Dress ( +0.2 multiplier, Art Bonus)
- Location
- At the end of the world
There are several points why integrating Archery at this point would be difficult:
1) Archery uses Strength for Penetration and Strength is our lowest stat, so your metaphor about mosquito-bit would be quite literal
2) New Arts needs new space that we didn't have. We already used all 'cheap' space. Every next meridian will cost more, to a point where we can't carve to of them in one AP. We just can't lightly afford space for several nishe arts.
3) For Archery with our low Strength and costly meridians to matter we will need strong bow. Did you see prices for good weapon talismans? Good luck explaining the need to purchase one to math cabal.
4) People still pretty pessimistic about last time we used bow. Some of them didn't need any other reason, than wested time.
5) LQ have pretty high Resist if you summarize all of her bonuses + anti-dispel Arts + talisman. At this point it's easier to Avoid them than dispel.
P.S: I actually liked Archery, mostly because of high range, but it was so weak, LQ wasn't dealing any real damage when it mattered the most.
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Looks like Wind Thief is getting a bonus!
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- Location
- Ukraine
- Pronouns
- She/They
Ok yeah Strength is an unfortunately good point, I'd forgotten to consider that.
Wrt space, I talked about it not competing with the flute for a reason: it can be full on sideboard for completely different types of mission.
As for the money for the talisman... Absolute material superiority, anyone? I get that we're still on a budget, but I did already mention that archery will mostly even be useful out of the Sect.
How easy it is to avoid vs dispel is kind of irrelevant, you're right that archery suffers from MAD and so will likely never be a particularly good punching up option unless we're willing to commit to Swole Ling Qi. Still, it doesn't lack for uses against weaker opponents either - single target high range not screaming "Ling Qi Was Here" is pretty valuable for our build.
As for how useless archery was so far, I cannot and will not stop screaming about the 'dropping the flute' issue. That was stupid and absurd. And, well... how long did Ling Qi practice archery? About half a year? Oh yes, half a year in (xianxia version of) academic environment, what a good statistical sample for how useful or useless a particular skill will be later in life.
I'm not saying we should invest in archery right now, but I'm 100% reserving the right to bring it up when we're considering branching out / after we're out of the Inner Sect.
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Not true. Archery spent most of the time having better dice than music due to better passive stacking (while FVM was traaaassshhh) and Falling Star Shot was a perfectly solid attack that was easily as good as HC in yellow. It only fell behind when we actively dropped it in Green, and started stacking a shitton of bonuses onto music.
If we'd done the same thing with Archery, and gotten a green Archery art, it would have been just as good if not better last year.
[disclaimer: this post should not be taken as advocacy for archery. We dropped it for perfectly good separate reasons]
- Location
- At the end of the world
I wasn't part of a previous thread, so I don't know reasons why Archery was dropped then. IMHO Ling Qi sucked at dealing damage regardless of what she used, her Music Arts at least was good as support.
- Location
- Ukraine
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah, Ling Qi is not and will/should never be a dedicated damage dealer.
But as she herself said, a battle is less like a duel and more like a heist. It matters less how much force you can apply at a particular spot, and more what effects you can logistically achieve. DPS has its own value and it'd be a bad plan to drop it entirely as it is also an effect that is useful to be able to logistically achieve, but it's not the point of giving Ling Qi a bow and a non-Heavens archery art.
The point is mostly distance and anonymity. Ling Qi is a trickster, it's the whole Grinning Moon thing. If she can project the threat of a dedicated long-range DPSer where her side actually has none? If she can leave shit like arrows with pinned notes that don't say anything about who wrote them other than 'an archer' (which is like, mega common in the Emerald Seas)? If she can apply pressure to lower rank opponents where she'd be pressed to actually chase them down with an area effect because they can scatter? (Cloud Nomads!!!) If she can attack without any indication of who it was that attacked?
Archery has high utility of the exact kind Ling Qi is already looking for in her abilities.
P.S. Part of the disagreement here I think is my position on an argument I've seen recurring in the thread. Are we support or battlefield control? Are we a thief or a diplomat? Are we a musician or an archer? Are we a bard or a rogue? Are we stealthy or undispellable? Are we a team player or a solo operator?
We're all of these things, duh. That's what bard/support is all about: yes, it's a challenge to build a useful jack-of-all-trades who doesn't pay for multi-competence by not actually being competent at anything, but we can do it. We're already doing it. Our specialties synergize, the archetype is coherent and has room for more.
"Silk hiding steel" is a popular trope for a reason. Well-chosen opposites synergize well by having just the one for any situation and cutting off all paths of escape for the opponent.
P.P.S. Look at Renxiang, the mega-bureaucrat who dispels everything and deals absurd DPS while also being socially dominating. We ARE the fourth, slightly weaker monster :3
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- Location
- At the end of the world
I realised another point of why integrating Archery now would be next to impossible - we have one Yellow 3 Archery Art... And that's it. That means we need to go for Archive dive for several new arts. And Archive Arts aren't really that impressive. Theoretically we can try to create Archery art on our own in a near future... well after we create FSS+ and any other Arts that are more core for LQ. But let's say that we already have Achieve Archery Art of good quality. What you propose using Archery for is very niche. Striking Cloud tribesmen back with their own method sounds good. But if we are not dealing enough damage than wouldn't it be better to use our pretty good stealth to attack with our death fields from their midst?
P.S: The thing you are saying about dropping flute - I'm pretty sure LQ is past that stage and can change between flute and bow without problem, but any time we use bow Arts we can't use new flute Arts at the same time.