Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
LQ's somewhat of an outlier, being Talent 6 or 7.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If she spends all of her time diligently training, sure.
Or you could divide her cultivation and skill training up over a longer stretch of time and let have time to do her own thing as well.
That being said, I think I'm gonna leave off here. We've still got four years before she's old enough where I would even begin to consider starting her training. And honestly, eight is probably too young too, I'd only consider it if it was something she very much wanted to do at that age.
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deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
Compared to the average new sect member, sure. But neither Meizhen or CRX showed the difficulty advancing that Fan Yu or even Gu Xiulan showed.
So they're probably equal to LQ at 6 talent, or at 5 at an absolute minimum.
So those extra years of hardcore cultivation pre-age 12 seriously had minimal return on investment. They must be some bonkers penalties.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly, her early years used to give her a broad foundation in skills and life experiences seems more valuable to me than the small diminishing return number of cultivation successes. Ling Qi is successful because cultivation is not a chore to her, but for most people it's difficult and motivation is a real problem. Ling Qi knows there are many, many ways to cultivate, so helping Biyu find something she enjoys inherently as a mundane activity, when opportunity costs are low, so Ling Qi has time to arrange for supporting art acquisitions, specialist tutors, etc to maximize the prime cultivation period using supernatural ability in whatever she loves best as a carrot dangling out of her reach.
Like, without the pressure CRX or Meizhen or Liling were under, the sub-optimal cultivation that people go through when too young probably just instills bad habits. They don't see measurable progress, they've cultivated enough today so they can stop and just do more tomorrow (which they don't do), etc. Han Jian's example of taking months of prime cultivation time to get serious is something we cannot afford to happen to Biyu. He probably saw himself making the fastest gains he had at any point in his life, and so was satisfied until he realized that he wasn't actually trying very hard and he was being passed by.
Ling Qi isn't very temperamentally suited to putting pressure on someone she loves, and I expect there would be extra issues with trying to force education on Biyu given Ling Qi's own past. Going the education mama route needed to produce a CRX just isn't going to work for Ling Qi.
Full disclosure, I'm mildly tempted to try and indirectly encourage Biyu to steal her own early awakening by leaving a chest marked "Stones reserved for Biyu's cultivation" and a manual on awakening around in our house once she hits 10 or so, but that's mostly me being silly.
Like, without the pressure CRX or Meizhen or Liling were under, the sub-optimal cultivation that people go through when too young probably just instills bad habits. They don't see measurable progress, they've cultivated enough today so they can stop and just do more tomorrow (which they don't do), etc. Han Jian's example of taking months of prime cultivation time to get serious is something we cannot afford to happen to Biyu. He probably saw himself making the fastest gains he had at any point in his life, and so was satisfied until he realized that he wasn't actually trying very hard and he was being passed by.
Ling Qi isn't very temperamentally suited to putting pressure on someone she loves, and I expect there would be extra issues with trying to force education on Biyu given Ling Qi's own past. Going the education mama route needed to produce a CRX just isn't going to work for Ling Qi.
Full disclosure, I'm mildly tempted to try and indirectly encourage Biyu to steal her own early awakening by leaving a chest marked "Stones reserved for Biyu's cultivation" and a manual on awakening around in our house once she hits 10 or so, but that's mostly me being silly.
I do wonder if putting pressure on Biyu will only make her follow the family tradition. You know the Ling clan secret technique passed down for generations. Running away~
Eh, sounds like a plan to me.
The only problem I have with this is, well, even base line cultivators learn ordinary skill faster than mortals. I mean, getting to the peak of mortal ability in a mundane skill can be done in as little as a year for a red.
That may very well happen if we refuse to teach her too. Just saying. I mean, she's already curious about it and wants to be included.
She doesn't really understand yet, but when she's older. *shrugs*
Edit: and, you know, if we send her to the sect under prepared, she may very well come back with an eyepatch.
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Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Here's the thing: we don't know why clans don't all have their kids start cultivating at 8 like Meizhen did, or even 6 like Cai did. (also iirc it was asked and the number was at 12 for usual and 10 for being early).
If I had to guess, I'd guess something like this:
- ~30% chance of there being a fundamental reason for why it's risky or dangerous like increased risk of talent decay or something.
- ~60% being split between "not economically viable; low marginal gains", "kids don't have the attention span for hours of daily meditation for months", "don't want to sour kids' motivation regarding cultivation speed".
- ~10% in "some stupid Empire-centric tradition but actually old clans like Bai and crazies like Cai don't mind ignoring it". (only so low because yrs should know better)
Point is, we should get info at some point when we're in the sect. It's not a pressing concern but deciding unilaterally without information would be stupid.
And make no mistake, even if cultivation speed will be slow before age-related talent restrictions are lifted, there is still an immediate and significant benefit to Awakening to the Red soul stage (and Gold body) in practically all aspects of life; Qi to shield from minor scrapes, enhanced memory, thought clarity and reflexes, much better physical aptitude and so on.
Also,
If I had to guess, I'd guess something like this:
- ~30% chance of there being a fundamental reason for why it's risky or dangerous like increased risk of talent decay or something.
- ~60% being split between "not economically viable; low marginal gains", "kids don't have the attention span for hours of daily meditation for months", "don't want to sour kids' motivation regarding cultivation speed".
- ~10% in "some stupid Empire-centric tradition but actually old clans like Bai and crazies like Cai don't mind ignoring it". (only so low because yrs should know better)
Point is, we should get info at some point when we're in the sect. It's not a pressing concern but deciding unilaterally without information would be stupid.
And make no mistake, even if cultivation speed will be slow before age-related talent restrictions are lifted, there is still an immediate and significant benefit to Awakening to the Red soul stage (and Gold body) in practically all aspects of life; Qi to shield from minor scrapes, enhanced memory, thought clarity and reflexes, much better physical aptitude and so on.
Also,
This attitude is a bit of a problem. Meizhen and especially CRX had a shitty early life because they had pretty shitty families that forced a mountain of expectations on their shoulders. We should only strive to let Biyu do as she wants, and only let her cultivate early (whenever we learn this actually is) if she actually wants to.
I'm not one to push for Biyu to start cultivating as soon as possible, but I'm not a fan of the 'let her have a childhood' argument.
Children all over the (real) world study academics, train athletics and some even work. And I'm not just talking about hellish sweat-shops run by amoral global conglomerates, but also helping out with the family farm, or restaurant.
And the ToD setting is a deathworld.
Children all over the (real) world study academics, train athletics and some even work. And I'm not just talking about hellish sweat-shops run by amoral global conglomerates, but also helping out with the family farm, or restaurant.
And the ToD setting is a deathworld.
- Location
- UK
That's pretty much my ideal way of rearing a new cultivator. Maybe Biyu can start cultivating around 9-10 if she wants (and we've checked it's safe), but ideally we want her awakened by around 12. From there, she has two years to get some slow progress towards yellow, maybe reaching it but more preferably being late red so she can pick up Argent Soul when she arrives at the sect, but even mid red would still be fine, and the rest of the time experimenting with Arts and activities.
Try everything and anything which she may enjoy, and don't let her settle. At first I imagine she'll want to try music to be like her big sis, and indulge that for a couple of months with a basic art or two (just the first stage maybe of a likely trash art note), then move on to something else.
I'm talking children playground rhymes art, formations for dummies, babies first pill making, the hundred metre shadow sprint, how to incinerate your least favourite toys with your mind. Ok, maybe a little more adult, she won't be a toddler, but you get the idea.
The important thing here is she could try a dozen or so different 'hobbies' in this time, but it will be the one she sticks to in her own time which even after we make her focus the rest of her time on something else which she will then focus on when she really starts cultivating at the sect. This ensures it isn't likely just a 'stage' which she will grow bored of after a few years.
In the last 3 or 4 months after she's hopefully settled on something we're sure she will stick to we can look for proper Arts to get her a half decent starting point (although I doubt it will be near as good as we got with SCS and FVM). this way when she gets to the sect she has a basic path set out for her which she enjoys, meaning she can enjoy cultivating it as opposed to viewing cultivation as a chore. So she has a basic art/element/whatever style she knows she wants, is enthusiastic for cultivation and ready to take advantage of the sects resources.
One problem is choosing her meridian, she likely won't be able to get more than a few, I don't think we had more than five or so when we broke into yellow? If she only has say a leg and heart meridian before getting to the sect, then that could limit her from practising face punching, which could be her passion, or divination, or whatever, which could make it a waste of time, so choosing meridians will be important.
A benefit on the other hand is we are basically having her 'childhood' be part of preparing her to cultivate. If it were boys only and a group activity, it would be near literally Wizard Cubs.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This follows along with my thoughts, though I am wary of the idea of giving her arts to test out because of the whole meridian thing as you brought up. My thinking is that what we'll end up having to look at is what skills she gravitates too, and I expect her to surprise us as I mentioned in the last thread when this topic showed up.
So in my mind we would be well served by doing something like what you say, but training her in normal skills as an Awoken Red and Gold until we are sure of whatever skill most interests her and then start training her on the arts relevant to that skill.
Ling Qi herself is also going to have opinions on it as a character, which I love because that kinda thing is great, and those are going to be turbo-relevant and somehow related to ours though not identical most likely.
I actually dont expect her to be that surprising.
Seems to me that she is cut from the same cloth as her older sister and mother. Or at least, what little we've seen of her suggest that.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The cut from the same cloth thing is a good standing point. We'll probably have to see in order to come to a conclusion on which way she'll fall on either side of the surprises us or not argument.
Anyway onto another topic I am interested in speculating on Sixiang's possible progression. We talk about Zhengui's often of course because he's our babbu boi, so I figured with Ling Qi encouraging Six to cultivate at least loosely I was curious what might be occuring in peoples brains. Or if speculation on their future growth is not what you want to do there's the abilities they have which haven't been unlocked so far.
Given their origin and wood tinge I think one of Six's future unlocked abilities might be an qi bolstering, sharing their pool with their binders. As for growth I don't expect them to get beyond Early Green for quite a bit, though they might start rubber banding after Ling Qi from the run off.
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I went looking for the bit where Han Jian told us about how long it took him to awaken with the help of tutors but I couldn't find it.
And this one isn't from yrsillar, but it's a canonized sidestory.
- Location
- earth
I think Biyu can start cultivating at 11/12. She learns some intro arts with a wide element spread and some dinky red cultivation art. Get to the Sect at 14 and Red/Gold 3 to then grab that sweet sweet Argent Soul and the world is her oyster.
I'm not seeing the point of starting her before 11. I'm not suggesting coddling her - we can go over theories of cultivation and academics and some mild PT when she's around 8-11.
I'm not seeing the point of starting her before 11. I'm not suggesting coddling her - we can go over theories of cultivation and academics and some mild PT when she's around 8-11.
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Su Ling Sketch
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Is there any harm with letting Biyu play with a single red stone as she clearly wants to? Is it guaranteed to hurt her? I thought it hurt us the first time because Meizhen was giving us a shortcut to feel our dantian.
Even red tier cultivators master mundane skills far faster than mortals could hope to. Plus, they are less susceptible to disease. Those are both reasons to awaken sooner.
To put some perspective on it, Qi-mom spent decades mastering the flute but still faltered at just below peak mortal ability. LQ went from less skilled than her mother to inhumanly skilled in a few months, after spending years with little dedicated practice.
Also, we dont have the resources or skills to give her a wide element spread.
Even simple arts are described as being extremely expensive. Also, she wont have the meridians for it.
Really, we just need to give her enough arts to get through red. After that she'll be in the sect, and have access to the library.
So maybe three or four arts. I'd like one of those arts to be SCS, if it's practical, but I suppose we'll see how things go.
As for a cultivation arts, ideally, I'd prefer something that works as a primer for EPC.
Still, planning this out at any length is...... Spinning our wheels, when you get right down to it. We have no idea how things will look in a year, much less five.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I still legitimately think we should purchase a replica that looks shiny and stuff but doesn't have any qi. We can tell Biyu that she can play with shiny red stones and leave out that she's still not ready for cultivation. She'll be quite happy since I don't think she even really understands that the point of them is the qi inside.
- Location
- earth
I'll cede the faster learning point but I still wouldn't be happy if we awoke her any earlier than 10.
Given how hard it was to find EPC I'd be surprised if there was a lower realm cultivation art that could act as a primer for it.
Observe the people we know started early:
-Cai Renxiang - Started Age 6. Is only slightly ahead of the higher Talent Ling Qi even with Ducal drugs and having White Room access since she was Red. Is almost a Heaven(Idealism)/Mountain(Stoic) caricature to normal people, though how much of that is Shenhua damage is unclear.
-Bai Meizhen - Started Age 8. Is significantly, but not unsurmountably ahead of the higher Talent Ling Qi even with a bloodline advantage and Ducal drugs since she was Red. Is strongly influenced by her initial elements of Water/Darkness, though its more of "personality strongly colored by those traits" than "is almost nothing but those traits"
-Han Jian - Exact starting age is unclear, but suggested to be 10-12 or so. Shows aspects of his elemental configuration, but is more strongly defined by events in his social group.
Thing is, at age 6-8, most people can't even recall events from that time by their teens. Which means that they've lived immersed in the mindset of whatever they were cultivating for as long as they can remember, before they had a social group, hobbies, or even a well defined self image, considering once you start cultivating you move towards your idealized self.
Small influences become large when applied to such a blank template.
Of course, how much of that is the brutal upbringing and how much is the cultivation is in question...but if only the brutal upbringings do it, then theres usually a solid reason in the setting.
Considering theres a mentioned risk of death or crippling from cultivation critfail via penalties, its not exactly coddling. Like, if your breakthrough d100 goes into negative numbers on penalties, in genre that's never a good thing? If your cultivation dice is a chance dice(i.e. dicepool lowered to 0 by penalties), thats basically even odds of botch and gaining a success unless you use drugs to mitigate penalties.
The Bai are enough of a snakepit that such is mostly considered normal for them even by the other noble clans.
Shenhua would make a new one if it breaks.
And of course in the pre-imperial Tribal/Nomad eras it was awaken young or die young, so part and parcel of things.
Maybe if we had more of those +Breakthrough drugs to buffer the consequences.
For now, I think sticking to the Empire noble standard of awakening at around 12 years old(give or take a couple of years depending on situation) is good enough. Early enough to have some advantage. Late enough to have some childhood.
Late enough to get to the age where you might expect a kid to push through pain to get what they want, considering a 6-8 year old's reaction to pain is usually "lets never ever do that again"
EPC was gifted by the moon.
If the great moon spirit is invested in our family, we'll probably get something that will help. If not, I'm hoping we can just make something at that point.
The other thing is, well, her safety and future will likely depend on building good cultivation habits. This is a death world, and we live in a border province. Safe is a transient state here, that can quickly disappear with little warning.
I'm not inclined to go all hard disciplinarian on her, but there are ways we could teach her that she might find fun.
Like playing SCS tag. It wouldn't just get her used to using the art, it would be good dodge training too. Probably take her on a low stake hunt when she's older.
The fact of the matter is, unless she marries and moves to a core province, violence is going to be part of her life. We do her no favors by not trying to prepare her for it.
@veekie Most of what you said is pure conjecture. Also, mortals cant take drugs to break through to red. Cultivation drugs are toxic to mortals.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why do you think Meizhen or Renxiang are lower talent than us? I don't wholly disagree with the rest of what you're saying, at least not really, but Cai and Bai are both probably around the same talent level as us.
The red breakthrough can't be helped. The Yellow can, as is meridian opening and Spiritual/Physical, which are ALL penalized too, or Renxiang would be utterly unstoppable.
If they had equal Talent the gap would be widening, not closing. They have much better drugs, family cultivation arts and aids
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or they could be cultivating more arts simultaneously than we are, which, at least for Meizhen, we know to be true. The gap also isn't closing. We are roughly as far behind Meizhen right now as we were when we started. Also, EPC is an extremely potent cultivation art. Of the three people we know that use it, you have a Sect Elder, top 10 in the Inner Sect, and us. EPC is very, very, very good.