fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I mostly am against it because it doesn't have any cultivation bonuses.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Asked yrs some questions about CWY, the taunt specifically:
Basically, the Taunt seems to be an integral aspect of the shadow-armor tech and is actively antithetical to a combat-stealth playstyle. Fits Meizhen's style but not ours without reworking the rest of our approach, and downright contradictory if we take ENM or Lark.
---
On another note, I'm not sure why but people keep missing the full scope of what ENM actually does. It is:
Edit: on reread it looks like the second tech of ENM gives us a stealth-attack-like instant buff even against opponents that are aware of us.
Answer (not everything answered but probably intentional):questions said:
Basically, the Taunt seems to be an integral aspect of the shadow-armor tech and is actively antithetical to a combat-stealth playstyle. Fits Meizhen's style but not ours without reworking the rest of our approach, and downright contradictory if we take ENM or Lark.
---
On another note, I'm not sure why but people keep missing the full scope of what ENM actually does. It is:
- Dodge (Spiritual only for tech, phys too in passives)
- Stealth (looks like auto-stealth attempt as soon as we lose line of sight, which we get from FVM, PLR and OWS)
- Attack buff by being hard to think about (spiritual only for tech, phys too in passives)
Stealth-attack amplification with the second tech- movement speed (passive-only at level 1 but it's a 3xleg/2xarm art at max)
Edit: on reread it looks like the second tech of ENM gives us a stealth-attack-like instant buff even against opponents that are aware of us.
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The opportunity cost of opening a Meridian is that we won't be able to respec that meridian. The opportunity cost of Condensing a critical Art is that we will have one less meridian open (and will need to spend an AP to open it again in the future).
The latter has a long-term opportunity cost of zero as long as we don't open more meridians of a given type then we are likely to need. So opening something like a Head meridian is very unlikely to lead us wrong, given that we have all of 3 head meridians and are going to want to get more Perception arts eventually. Going up to 9 meridians for Spine or Lung is probably okay too; the soft cap is 54 meridians so 9 is the average, and our investment in Spine/Lung is going to be at least average. Accordingly, I would be against spending AP on condensing e.g. Argent Mirror; if we think that keeping the art around is worth the AP and we need the meridian space, I'd rather open up new meridians instead.
Note also that we don't need to get our 54 meridians 100% right, because:
1) In the long term, there is no 100% right anyways, since our Meridian needs change as we level up arts.
2) The soft cap of 54 is a soft cap, and we can push (slightly) further than that if necessary.
3) We are likely going to be unable to condense ALL the meridians on our more advanced arts, which means that the choice of what to condense effectively gives us a choice of which meridians we want to use less of.
- Location
- earth
@yrsillar , can you expand on how this soft cap works mehanically?
Some people speculated it meant the successes would double.
Stealth is not currently a core part of LQ's combat capabilities. Frankly, even Speed is questionable.
Yeah that is the only really bad thing about it atm and sadly it is probably another victim of the of the last thread. @yrsillar did not want any one element to become to dominant and thus we had things like wind that is LQ base element that got a bit shafted in the bonus apartment. Thus avoiding a Wind becoming the dominant element.
Darkness sadly got that treatment also thus we do not have any good bonuses for it. To a point, because we had several really good teachers and sites that helped with them.
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What?
No, it doesn't work like that. We condense the Meridians used by a specific Art, we don't condense the Meridians themselves. Condensing an Art's Meridians just means that the art uses it's Meridians more efficiently, that's all; If we've got eight Lung Meridians in use before we condense one of the meridians FVM uses, we'll have seven Meridians in use after we condense it. E: And eight Meridians available.
I can see where your conclusion might be made, where it says 'combining' two Meridians, but it refers to a given Art's use of those Meridians, not the actual Meridians.
Unless you've got another source than the one here.
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actually, it's a soft cap because it gets significantly more difficult to open more meridians when we have 54 open, so there's a bottleneck at that point in that it's harder to open new Meridians. That's why the Cai developed the White Room- mechanically, it gives bonuses that help you to open meridians, scaled to your cultivation level IIRC.
There's also presumably that pill & talisman Suyin created- those remove impurities which would make opening meridians easier. (they clear out half the impurities in the meridians you choose, presumably dropping the number fo successes nessecary)
I said the opportunity cost. If we were to open a meridian, we have one more meridian open than if we were to condense a meridian. It "cancels out" as long as we use the art which we condensed (since it requires one less meridian), but once the art is unequipped that advantage disappears and we end up just short one meridian.
Here is an illustrative example. Currently, we have 3 Head meridians, all used by AM. If we decide to condense AM's meridians, two AP gets us down to 1/3 head meridians used (and thus have 2 meridians free). If we instead use the same two AP to open two more head meridians, we would be at 3/5 head meridians (and still have two meridians free). However, if we end up tossing AM, in the former case we end up at 0/3 meridians and in the latter at 0/5; effectively, we've wasted the opportunity to open two meridians on a short-term boost that we eventually discarded.
- Location
- United States of America
I guess we are going to have to disagree here. We have two arts that enable combat stealth, and one art that greatly enhances it while also providing tools for using it. Two of these three arts are core arts to Ling Qi's combat capabilities, with the third likely to become one. Additionally, we should soon be reaching B ranked stealth, which will require advancement of some kind, the same as dodge.
Simply because the last thread's mechanics made combat stealth almost impossible doesn't mean that stealth isn't a part of Ling Qi's core combat capabilities, it just means that we weren't able to use that stealth very well.
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Ah, I get what you mean - if we only choose to condense the Meridians of Arts we plan to keep long-term, or ones with desired successors, such as SCS, we're set.
However, because we may no longer use the Art with the condensed Meridian, the AP spent condensing that Meridian could have been better used elsewhere (whether on opening more Meridians or otherwise).
Yes, I can agree with that.
We should probably obtain confirmation that we're getting a Successor to any given Art before condensing it, or already possess the slip for the Art in question.
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except that we may still be able to open said meridians later...
You aren't entirely wrong though that meridian condensing is presumably a step usually taken when you need a free meridian but can't open a new one- which means that the opportunity cost is irrelevent, since you couldn't open a new meridian instead of condensing them.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
I do agree that opening more head meridian is 'safe' right now, and that scrunching AM for example isn't. Scrunching ECD should be safe-ish given it's presented as a primer, though, I'd say. While we are likely going to be unable to condense ALL the meridians much later on, this won't be a concern until Green 6 or so.
I also agree that scrunching should only be done either in utility arts that we believe can be used for at least a significant while after they are underlevelled, or art that we want the successors of.
I strongly disagree about 'we'll get at least average of spine'. It seems our most used meridians will be Heart/Lung/Legs, then Head, then spine, then arm. Spine and Arm might actually already have too many meridians open. I also strongly disagree that because we can't be 'perfect' we shouldn't make sure we are as close to it as possible.
Sure. One less open meridian doesn't mean we are permanently down a meridian, just that we require extra AP to open the meridian I'm the future.
What? No, we can condense meridians when we could have opened new ones instead, and for some arts and meridian types it is entirely sensible. The opportunity cost is what determines when it is sensible.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
Well we do know definitively that a successor to Argent Mirror exists. It's just a matter of whether we need to unlock and master Argent Pulse in order to get access to it.
If we don't have to, then I'd say it's a guaranteed pick. AM is underpowered for our current cultivation level and threats we face, but the things it boosts and abilities it gives are very much things we want. Grabbing upgraded successor to AM, scrunching it if cost-efficient, and swapping Mountain for Moon is a very solid plan for getting a nice suite of Spiritual Defence and dispels.
The problem is if AP is a mandatory pre-req. I want the AM+ very very badly...but I've been trying and I just can't justify the time expenditure of mastering two arts that are useless to us, followed by another of only middling use. Even if getting the mastered Argent Suite got us some favour and points with the Elders I still can't call it worth the time.
Gods I hope AM+ has no further Argent pre-reqs (Except Genesis. Since we're 100% mastering AG anyway).
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I missed the white room.
- Location
- Germany
In that case, your favorite Keywords should be yin, moon, wind, and water, in that order.
And if you really want to optimize, wind, and yin should be in conjunction with either darkness, moon, or water. Basically, our gear gives discounts on darkness, moon, water. Discount are important as we are effectively casting from our HP pool, but the flipside of that is that every enchantment we get that gives discounts is one that isn't used to make us stronger.
Retooling to other elements would be prohibitively expensive, as it basically means remodeling or ditching 80% of our gear.
If we bind Hanyi, it's probable we'll finally get that darkness cultivation bonus though. I'm more suprised we haven't already gotten one, tbh. Darkness has been our primary element this entire quest.
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No, we are not casting from our HP pool. The HP pool is determined by Base Qi (currently at A) and we cast from Available Qi (currently at B35).
Alright, with due diligence paid to trying the most evenhanded and fair assessment of the arts. Now for my personal opinion-based portions, based on a few criteria:
-Immediate utility:
-Completion point:
-Completion effort: All these are drawn from Raising Kitten's post, so I might be missing something
-Domain potential:
Take note of current completion points:
-Green 4: Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry(Yay)
-Green 3: Eight Phase Ceremony(Yay), Argent Genesis, Abyssal Exhalation(Nope).
-Green 2: Sable Crescent Step(Yay), Forgotten Vale Melody, Argent Pulse(?), Frozen Soul Serenade(Meh)
-Green 1: Argent Current(Nope), Argent Storm(Nope)
(Yay)s are my personal opinion of strongly favorable
(Nope)s are my assessment of thread opinion on them being unfavorable to the point that theres basically no chance.
(Meh)s are my personal opinion on them with either favorable or neutral thread opinion.
We need 4 slotted arts at Green 2, of which we have one.
We need 5 slotted arts at Green 3, and one advanced insight, which is a mystery box.
In order to meet my personal preferences then, I'd need 2 Green <= 2 arts with personally preferred insights. I believe the thread in general is going to slot SCS and FVM no matter what, so everyone else is just looking for 1 art.
Of course, we got more slots than that(3+2/domain rank, so we should have enough), but
Covetous Wraith's Yearning
-Immediate utility: Medium-High.
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 5-6 AP
-Domain potential: Medium(conditional)
Its past the big Green 2 chokepoint
It lets us play parties like a fiddle against anyone without social arts, its useful in a fight, its even pure Darkness to make our domain weapon maximally stronger.
Well, aside from the minor drawback of the optics looking poor once it gets out that our mother's a whore. And so's our staff.
However, I find its main insight problematic without a counterweight, so I'd be against it unless we have Harmony of the Dancing Wind or something similar slotted to give additional context to relationships other than .
Ephemeral Nights Memory
-Immediate utility: High
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 6-7 AP
-Domain potential: Low
Its past the big Green 3 chokepoint.
It got good elements for us(part Darkness makes Domain weapon happy), it makes combat stealth much more viable, and it, if used right, can be used to hide our techniques even after we used them in battle.
Unfortunately for this, I want no part of its domain message. A Home domain with a slotted ideal that says the good and bad would be forgotten feels wrong to me on a personal level. I want the bonds to last till death and even beyond.
Given how much SV dislikes mucking with minds like that I'd be comfortable learning it, since I'm pretty sure we're never going to slot it. Of course, for that same reason it'd be murder to actually get people to vote for learning it.
Curious Diviners Eye
-Immediate utility: Medium
-Completion point: Green 2
-Completion effort: 7-9 AP
-Domain potential: Medium(depends on development)
Its there in time for the Green 3 chokepoint.
Its got that nice Hidden Moon thing going on, its message appeals, but doesn't really have a defined spot in our doman yet(more of a perpendicular development really). Its certainly useful in some way, but needs some work to draw out that utility.
Unfortunately it eats up a shitload of AP because we don't have a lot of training bonuses for a Moon Water Head Lung art. Nice addition, but unless we find some amazing drugs or sites, it'd be slow going enough that I'm reluctant to push it.
Harmony of the Dancing Wind
-Immediate utility: Medium-High
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 5 AP
-Domain potential: High
It comes in past the Green 3 chokepoint.
Its pretty good utility in teamfight(at least, assuming spiritual attacks become more common in Green, which they probably do compared to all the facepunch in the world in the tournament we see), and I really like the kind of message it conveys.
Cheap to learn too AP wise.
Definitely going in for me.
Audacious Fairy's Lark
-Immediate utility: Medium-High
-Completion point: Green 2
-Completion effort: 6-7(not inclusive condensing)
-Domain potential: Medium
It comes in time for the Green 2 chokepoint.
Its of pretty great utility, assuming we keep the extremely high quality, upgraded, self repairing magic dress(which would take some serious doing to break beyond repair, and which Ling Qi almost never takes off)
Its cheerful as fuck in the message, though some players may not be too happy with how flighty it is.
A little costly in actions however. I wouldn't have a problem picking this up, but thread opinion can be a harder sell.
So personal trainlist:
-Harmony of the Dancing Wind
-Curious Diviner's Eye
-Covetous Wraith's Yearning
E: And a little reference to all the other analysis posts at one go:
And now, off to bed, I kind of spent half a day on all this.
-Immediate utility:
-Completion point:
-Completion effort: All these are drawn from Raising Kitten's post, so I might be missing something
-Domain potential:
Take note of current completion points:
-Green 4: Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry(Yay)
-Green 3: Eight Phase Ceremony(Yay), Argent Genesis, Abyssal Exhalation(Nope).
-Green 2: Sable Crescent Step(Yay), Forgotten Vale Melody, Argent Pulse(?), Frozen Soul Serenade(Meh)
-Green 1: Argent Current(Nope), Argent Storm(Nope)
(Yay)s are my personal opinion of strongly favorable
(Nope)s are my assessment of thread opinion on them being unfavorable to the point that theres basically no chance.
(Meh)s are my personal opinion on them with either favorable or neutral thread opinion.
We need 4 slotted arts at Green 2, of which we have one.
We need 5 slotted arts at Green 3, and one advanced insight, which is a mystery box.
In order to meet my personal preferences then, I'd need 2 Green <= 2 arts with personally preferred insights. I believe the thread in general is going to slot SCS and FVM no matter what, so everyone else is just looking for 1 art.
Of course, we got more slots than that(3+2/domain rank, so we should have enough), but
Covetous Wraith's Yearning
-Immediate utility: Medium-High.
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 5-6 AP
-Domain potential: Medium(conditional)
Its past the big Green 2 chokepoint
It lets us play parties like a fiddle against anyone without social arts, its useful in a fight, its even pure Darkness to make our domain weapon maximally stronger.
Well, aside from the minor drawback of the optics looking poor once it gets out that our mother's a whore. And so's our staff.
However, I find its main insight problematic without a counterweight, so I'd be against it unless we have Harmony of the Dancing Wind or something similar slotted to give additional context to relationships other than .
Ephemeral Nights Memory
-Immediate utility: High
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 6-7 AP
-Domain potential: Low
Its past the big Green 3 chokepoint.
It got good elements for us(part Darkness makes Domain weapon happy), it makes combat stealth much more viable, and it, if used right, can be used to hide our techniques even after we used them in battle.
Unfortunately for this, I want no part of its domain message. A Home domain with a slotted ideal that says the good and bad would be forgotten feels wrong to me on a personal level. I want the bonds to last till death and even beyond.
Given how much SV dislikes mucking with minds like that I'd be comfortable learning it, since I'm pretty sure we're never going to slot it. Of course, for that same reason it'd be murder to actually get people to vote for learning it.
Curious Diviners Eye
-Immediate utility: Medium
-Completion point: Green 2
-Completion effort: 7-9 AP
-Domain potential: Medium(depends on development)
Its there in time for the Green 3 chokepoint.
Its got that nice Hidden Moon thing going on, its message appeals, but doesn't really have a defined spot in our doman yet(more of a perpendicular development really). Its certainly useful in some way, but needs some work to draw out that utility.
Unfortunately it eats up a shitload of AP because we don't have a lot of training bonuses for a Moon Water Head Lung art. Nice addition, but unless we find some amazing drugs or sites, it'd be slow going enough that I'm reluctant to push it.
Harmony of the Dancing Wind
-Immediate utility: Medium-High
-Completion point: Green 3
-Completion effort: 5 AP
-Domain potential: High
It comes in past the Green 3 chokepoint.
Its pretty good utility in teamfight(at least, assuming spiritual attacks become more common in Green, which they probably do compared to all the facepunch in the world in the tournament we see), and I really like the kind of message it conveys.
Cheap to learn too AP wise.
Definitely going in for me.
Audacious Fairy's Lark
-Immediate utility: Medium-High
-Completion point: Green 2
-Completion effort: 6-7(not inclusive condensing)
-Domain potential: Medium
It comes in time for the Green 2 chokepoint.
Its of pretty great utility, assuming we keep the extremely high quality, upgraded, self repairing magic dress(which would take some serious doing to break beyond repair, and which Ling Qi almost never takes off)
Its cheerful as fuck in the message, though some players may not be too happy with how flighty it is.
A little costly in actions however. I wouldn't have a problem picking this up, but thread opinion can be a harder sell.
So personal trainlist:
-Harmony of the Dancing Wind
-Curious Diviner's Eye
-Covetous Wraith's Yearning
E: And a little reference to all the other analysis posts at one go:
Covetous Wraith's Yearning
-Elements: Pure Yin Darkness.
-Meridians: Primary Head, Secondary Spine.
-Keywords: Desire, Empathy, Connection, Perceptiveness, Presence, Yin.
This combination says clearly that CWY is about understanding people(Head x3) through their desires, the lizard brain, and then changing yourself(Spine 2) to become their object of desire.
The Succubus, the Yukionna, the Huldra and the Sidhe all draw upon related concepts.
As far as meridian efficiency and elemental compatibility goes, this is pretty good, though it does threaten to make Ling Qi more than 50% Darkness with 5 Darkness meridians...if you were concerned about such things anyways. I'm not, though I'd like a lot more Moon.
-Combat utility: Lure art. Defense Art.
Good compatibility with a minefield build and a tank build, in other words, this would be perfect...if Zhengui was using it. It pulls enemies towards the user and makes them harder to hit, harder to hurt and disengaging is a pain.
On Ling Qi, this mainly serves with Thousand Ring Fortress and Sable Crescent Step as a means of tanking the shit out of enemies she aggros, allowing her less durable minions like Abyssal Exhalation Worms to basically get free hits, and to drag enemy adds into her mists.
Basically this goes into the "build a fortress and force them to siege you while you chip at them" playstyle. It'd probably fit better if we took the TRF insight rather than the SCS insight.
-Playstyle utility: Social Perception art
A PRETTY powerful social perception art, since it reveals peoples' base desires and how to exploit them. However, keep in mind that it sees only desires and bonds, relying on this art exclusively for social(yes its silly but its also something Ling Qi would totes do if she thought it'd work) can be a hazardous pitfall.
It will reach out to people through their desire for the aesthetic pleasures of good art, and good music, to get the participants of a party to come again so that they may hear that haunting song.
It will appeal through greed for wealth and power, to know who seeks for status and what they most crave.
It will pull at the base desires, of wine, of food, of lust.
It will not, however, call to greater ideals, duty, justice and loyalty. You'd need to work that out yourself. So be careful of that nuance.
-Domain slot message: "Know what they desire, know what they are", "To be loved, become what they love", "Home is where your heart yearns for", "To live is to want"
A cynical art in a sense. You know the saying "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach"? This is that taken to the extent of a Dao.
Nothing bad about it, but it simplifies people in a way that's JUST true enough to work almost all the time.
Almost
And now, off to bed, I kind of spent half a day on all this.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
You, huh, forgot Thousand Rings Fortress in Green 2, which changes a LOT of the following analysis.
Also, about AP cost of Arts. If we assume we can't get 12GSS at foundation:
Covetous Wraith's Yearning
-Completion effort: 10+ AP
Ephemeral Nights Memory
-Completion effort: 8 AP
Curious Diviners Eye
-Completion effort: 4 AP
Harmony of the Dancing Wind
-Completion effort: 7 AP
Audacious Fairy's Lark
-Completion effort: 6 AP
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So! Calculating exp for our Arts, to minimize AP spent!
SCS: It currently says '500, 500'; I'm going to make an assumption and guess that SCS 8 is supposed to be 650, like FVM 8 and EPC 7.
These numbers will be using EPC 7 and 'High' resources.
SCS 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, without a location multiplier, provided we find additional sources of resource dice totaling roughly 25 raw dice, or obtain an addition to our multiplier of at least 0.2. Otherwise, approximately sixty successes from other sources would be required.
With 2 AP, and multiplier bonuses totaling an additional .5 (location + hanyi ?), it would take roughly 130 additional successes to reach SCS 8, or ~60 extra resource dice, or some combination of both.
Conclusion: Shaved 1 AP off of SCS 8. Shaving 2 AP would require more resources than I think we can obtain.
FVM, at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
FVM 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, provided one of the following is true: 90 successes are dumped into it from EPC, or sources of resource dice totaling roughly 30 dice are found, or a multiplier of .2 is found and resources totaling roughly 6 dice are found, or some combination of the above.
Conclusion: We'll need to find a good place for either Water or Darkness in the coming month, but we can shave an AP off of this, too.
TRF at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
TRF is really hampered here, by both the relatively low multiplier and missing the extra dice from EPC. In order to do it in one 'Turn', it needs either 6 AP, about 36 resource dice from other sources totaling, or an additional multiplier of .2 and around 14 more resource dice. Otherwise it needs roughly 120 successes from other sources.
Spread out over two turns it takes five AP.
Conclusion: AP cost can be reduced to 4 provided sufficient steps are taken.
FSS at EPC 7. Requires 200 + 400 + 600 = 1200 successes.
We'd need to conjure up over four hundred successes to master FSS in four AP. Five AP over two turns isn't quite so crazy (Or six AP in one turn), though that requires obtaining at least a .2 multiplier and 28 or more resource dice.
Six AP over two turns is very doable, only requiring an extra twelve resource dice each turn - something Zeqing will probably provide by herself.
Conclusion: Can't do it, but that's not surprising. We can easily go from 3/6 to 5/6 in one turn at four AP.
PLR at EPC 7. Requires 150 + 300 + 450 = 900 Successes.
This will take a combination of a good multiplier and thirty plus extra resource dice to manage in four AP.
Five AP over two turns, or Six AP in one turn, drops what we need down to less than ten extra resource dice.
Conclusion: Can be done in Four AP, provided we get a good multiplier bonus and a nice chunk of extra resource dice.
Summary: Mastering SCS, FVM, TRF, FSS, and PLR should take roughly 25 AP in the worst case. In the best case, 18 AP, split between two turns for FSS and PLR.
TL;DR: Find the best locations, the most awesome drugs, and bind a Wind/Darkness or Wind/Water/Darkness spirit of some kind!
Ah, @veekie, those were estimates - I hadn't actually done the math yet, :/.
TL;DR: A Dark/Wind spirit, and an appropriate location, bring all of those to within reach at around four AP - close enough for resources or EPC drip to do the rest. CDE does it without any extra assistance, as has been noted.
I'm going to eat lunch and take a nap now.
SCS: It currently says '500, 500'; I'm going to make an assumption and guess that SCS 8 is supposed to be 650, like FVM 8 and EPC 7.
These numbers will be using EPC 7 and 'High' resources.
T = 6
S/4 = 5 * 4 + 10 * 4 + 40 * 4 + 80 * 4 = 135
R = 6 (stealth) + 20 (High Resources) + 35 (EPC Yin) + 30 (EPC Moon) + x (Other sources) = 91
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Motion) + .05 (Spine) + l (location) = 1.55 + l
(6 + 135 + 91 + x) * y * .55 * (1.55 + l) = 650
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 232 * .55 * 1.55 = 197.78
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 232 * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 593.34
x = ?, y = 3, l = 0: (232 + x) * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 650 :: 593.34 + 2.5575x = 650 :: 2.5575x = 56.66 :: x ~= 22.15
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: (232) * 3 * .55 * 1.75 = 669.9.
x = 0, y = 2, l = .3: (232) * 2 * .55 * 1.85 = 472.12
x = 0, y = 2, l = .5: (232) * 2 * .55 * 2.05 = 523.16
x=x, y = 2, l = .5: 523.16 + 2.255x = 650 :: 2.255x = 126.84 :: x = 56.24
S/4 = 5 * 4 + 10 * 4 + 40 * 4 + 80 * 4 = 135
R = 6 (stealth) + 20 (High Resources) + 35 (EPC Yin) + 30 (EPC Moon) + x (Other sources) = 91
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Motion) + .05 (Spine) + l (location) = 1.55 + l
(6 + 135 + 91 + x) * y * .55 * (1.55 + l) = 650
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 232 * .55 * 1.55 = 197.78
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 232 * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 593.34
x = ?, y = 3, l = 0: (232 + x) * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 650 :: 593.34 + 2.5575x = 650 :: 2.5575x = 56.66 :: x ~= 22.15
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: (232) * 3 * .55 * 1.75 = 669.9.
x = 0, y = 2, l = .3: (232) * 2 * .55 * 1.85 = 472.12
x = 0, y = 2, l = .5: (232) * 2 * .55 * 2.05 = 523.16
x=x, y = 2, l = .5: 523.16 + 2.255x = 650 :: 2.255x = 126.84 :: x = 56.24
SCS 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, without a location multiplier, provided we find additional sources of resource dice totaling roughly 25 raw dice, or obtain an addition to our multiplier of at least 0.2. Otherwise, approximately sixty successes from other sources would be required.
With 2 AP, and multiplier bonuses totaling an additional .5 (location + hanyi ?), it would take roughly 130 additional successes to reach SCS 8, or ~60 extra resource dice, or some combination of both.
Conclusion: Shaved 1 AP off of SCS 8. Shaving 2 AP would require more resources than I think we can obtain.
FVM, at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Heart/Lung) = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 188.87 * 3 = 566.61
x = x: 566.61 + 3 * .55 * 1.7 * x :: 2.805x + 566.61 = 650 :: 2.805x = 83.39 :: x = 29.72.
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: 202 * 3 * .55 * 1.9 = 633.27
x = x: 633.27 + 3.135x = 650 :: 3.135x = 16.73 :: x = 5.336
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Heart/Lung) = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 188.87 * 3 = 566.61
x = x: 566.61 + 3 * .55 * 1.7 * x :: 2.805x + 566.61 = 650 :: 2.805x = 83.39 :: x = 29.72.
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: 202 * 3 * .55 * 1.9 = 633.27
x = x: 633.27 + 3.135x = 650 :: 3.135x = 16.73 :: x = 5.336
FVM 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, provided one of the following is true: 90 successes are dumped into it from EPC, or sources of resource dice totaling roughly 30 dice are found, or a multiplier of .2 is found and resources totaling roughly 6 dice are found, or some combination of the above.
Conclusion: We'll need to find a good place for either Water or Darkness in the coming month, but we can shave an AP off of this, too.
TRF at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + x = 26 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Zhengui) + .1 (Sixiang) + .1 (Heart) + .05 (Spine) + l = 1.45 + l
(6 + 135 + 26 + x) * y * .55 * (1.45 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 167 * .55 * 1.45 = 133.1825
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 133.1825 * 4 = 532.73
x=x: 532.73 + 3.19x :: 3.19x = 112.27 :: x = 35.19
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 133.1825 * 5 = 665.9125
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 167 * 4 * .55 * 1.65 = 598.95
x = x: 598.95 + 3.63x = 650 :: 3.63x = 51.05 :: x = 14
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + x = 26 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Zhengui) + .1 (Sixiang) + .1 (Heart) + .05 (Spine) + l = 1.45 + l
(6 + 135 + 26 + x) * y * .55 * (1.45 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 167 * .55 * 1.45 = 133.1825
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 133.1825 * 4 = 532.73
x=x: 532.73 + 3.19x :: 3.19x = 112.27 :: x = 35.19
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 133.1825 * 5 = 665.9125
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 167 * 4 * .55 * 1.65 = 598.95
x = x: 598.95 + 3.63x = 650 :: 3.63x = 51.05 :: x = 14
TRF is really hampered here, by both the relatively low multiplier and missing the extra dice from EPC. In order to do it in one 'Turn', it needs either 6 AP, about 36 resource dice from other sources totaling, or an additional multiplier of .2 and around 14 more resource dice. Otherwise it needs roughly 120 successes from other sources.
Spread out over two turns it takes five AP.
Conclusion: AP cost can be reduced to 4 provided sufficient steps are taken.
FSS at EPC 7. Requires 200 + 400 + 600 = 1200 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4/5/6
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Lung) + l = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 188.87 * 4 = 755.48
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 188.87 * 5 = 944.35
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 188.87 * 6 = 1,133.22
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 755.48 + 3.74x = 1200 :: 3.74x = 444.52 :: x = 118.85.
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 944.35 + x * 5 * .55 * 1.7: 944.35 + 4.675x = 1200 :: 4.675x = 255.65 :: x = 54.68
x = x, y = 5, l = .2: (202 + x) * 5 * .55 * 1.9 = 1200 :: 1055.45 + 5.225x = 1200 :: 5.225x = 144.55 :: x = 27.665
x = x, y = 6, l = 0: 1,133.22 + 5.61x = 1200 :: 5.61x = 66.78 :: x = 11.90
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4/5/6
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Lung) + l = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 188.87 * 4 = 755.48
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 188.87 * 5 = 944.35
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 188.87 * 6 = 1,133.22
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 755.48 + 3.74x = 1200 :: 3.74x = 444.52 :: x = 118.85.
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 944.35 + x * 5 * .55 * 1.7: 944.35 + 4.675x = 1200 :: 4.675x = 255.65 :: x = 54.68
x = x, y = 5, l = .2: (202 + x) * 5 * .55 * 1.9 = 1200 :: 1055.45 + 5.225x = 1200 :: 5.225x = 144.55 :: x = 27.665
x = x, y = 6, l = 0: 1,133.22 + 5.61x = 1200 :: 5.61x = 66.78 :: x = 11.90
We'd need to conjure up over four hundred successes to master FSS in four AP. Five AP over two turns isn't quite so crazy (Or six AP in one turn), though that requires obtaining at least a .2 multiplier and 28 or more resource dice.
Six AP over two turns is very doable, only requiring an extra twelve resource dice each turn - something Zeqing will probably provide by herself.
Conclusion: Can't do it, but that's not surprising. We can easily go from 3/6 to 5/6 in one turn at four AP.
PLR at EPC 7. Requires 150 + 300 + 450 = 900 Successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 30 (EPC Moon) + x = 56 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Lung) + .1 (Motion) + l = 1.6 + l
(6 + 135 + 56 + x) * y * .55 * (1.6 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: (6 + 135 + 56) * 1 * .55 * 1.6 = 197 * .55 * 1.6 = 173.36
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 173.36 * 4 = 693.44
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 173.36 * 5 = 866.8
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 693.44 + 3.52x = 900 :: 3.52x = 206.56 :: x = 52.16
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 197 * 4 * .55 * 1.8 = 780.12
x = x, y = 4, l = .2: 780.12 + 3.96x = 900 :: 3.96x = 119.88 :: x = 30.27
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 866.8 + 4.4x = 900 :: 4.4x = 33.2 :: x = 7.45
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 30 (EPC Moon) + x = 56 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Lung) + .1 (Motion) + l = 1.6 + l
(6 + 135 + 56 + x) * y * .55 * (1.6 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: (6 + 135 + 56) * 1 * .55 * 1.6 = 197 * .55 * 1.6 = 173.36
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 173.36 * 4 = 693.44
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 173.36 * 5 = 866.8
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 693.44 + 3.52x = 900 :: 3.52x = 206.56 :: x = 52.16
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 197 * 4 * .55 * 1.8 = 780.12
x = x, y = 4, l = .2: 780.12 + 3.96x = 900 :: 3.96x = 119.88 :: x = 30.27
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 866.8 + 4.4x = 900 :: 4.4x = 33.2 :: x = 7.45
This will take a combination of a good multiplier and thirty plus extra resource dice to manage in four AP.
Five AP over two turns, or Six AP in one turn, drops what we need down to less than ten extra resource dice.
Conclusion: Can be done in Four AP, provided we get a good multiplier bonus and a nice chunk of extra resource dice.
Summary: Mastering SCS, FVM, TRF, FSS, and PLR should take roughly 25 AP in the worst case. In the best case, 18 AP, split between two turns for FSS and PLR.
TL;DR: Find the best locations, the most awesome drugs, and bind a Wind/Darkness or Wind/Water/Darkness spirit of some kind!
Ah, @veekie, those were estimates - I hadn't actually done the math yet, :/.
CWY: requires 750 successes for Peak Green Two.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (Yin) = 61
A = 1
m = 1.0 + .05 (Spine)
(6 + 135 + 61) * 1 * .55 * 1.05 = 202 * .55 * 1.05 = 116 / AP
6.5 AP to mastery without a Darkness spirit and a Darkness location. The multiplier jumps to 1.55 with those (at .2 and .3 respectively), for 172 / AP, or 4.5 AP total.
ENM requires 750 successes to Peak Green Two.
202 * .55 * 1.35 ( +0.2 Wind, +0.1 Imperial 8, +0.05 Spine) = 149/AP; or 5 AP in total. Darkness spirit and location jumps it to 1.85, for 205 / AP, or 3.5 AP total.
CDE requires 840 successes to Mastery.
R = 6 + 20 + 35 + 30 = 91
(6 + 135 + 91) * 1 * .55 * (1 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Lung)) = 232 * .55 * 1.7 = 216 / AP, or 4 AP total.
A moon or water location should bring that multiplier to 2.0, for 232 * .55 * 2.0 = 255. Doable in 3 AP if we get ~25 extra resource dice.
HDW requires 750 successes to Peak Green Two.
R = 26
m = 1 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .2 (Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Heart) = 1.8
(6 + 135 + 26) = 166 * .55 * 1.8 = 164 / AP, for 4.5 AP total
A wind location ups the multiplier to *2.1 = 191 / AP; 4 AP total; a Wind spirit on top of that is *2.3 = 209 / AP; or 3.5 AP.
AFL requires 860 successes to Mastery.
R = 61
m = 1 + .2 ( Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) = 1.3
(6 + 135 + 61) * .55 * 1.3 = 202 * .55 * 1.3 = 144 / AP, or 6 AP.
Wind Spirit + Location: 202 * .55 * 1.8 = 199 / AP, or 5 AP; 4 AP with sufficient extra resources.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (Yin) = 61
A = 1
m = 1.0 + .05 (Spine)
(6 + 135 + 61) * 1 * .55 * 1.05 = 202 * .55 * 1.05 = 116 / AP
6.5 AP to mastery without a Darkness spirit and a Darkness location. The multiplier jumps to 1.55 with those (at .2 and .3 respectively), for 172 / AP, or 4.5 AP total.
ENM requires 750 successes to Peak Green Two.
202 * .55 * 1.35 ( +0.2 Wind, +0.1 Imperial 8, +0.05 Spine) = 149/AP; or 5 AP in total. Darkness spirit and location jumps it to 1.85, for 205 / AP, or 3.5 AP total.
CDE requires 840 successes to Mastery.
R = 6 + 20 + 35 + 30 = 91
(6 + 135 + 91) * 1 * .55 * (1 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Lung)) = 232 * .55 * 1.7 = 216 / AP, or 4 AP total.
A moon or water location should bring that multiplier to 2.0, for 232 * .55 * 2.0 = 255. Doable in 3 AP if we get ~25 extra resource dice.
HDW requires 750 successes to Peak Green Two.
R = 26
m = 1 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .2 (Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Heart) = 1.8
(6 + 135 + 26) = 166 * .55 * 1.8 = 164 / AP, for 4.5 AP total
A wind location ups the multiplier to *2.1 = 191 / AP; 4 AP total; a Wind spirit on top of that is *2.3 = 209 / AP; or 3.5 AP.
AFL requires 860 successes to Mastery.
R = 61
m = 1 + .2 ( Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) = 1.3
(6 + 135 + 61) * .55 * 1.3 = 202 * .55 * 1.3 = 144 / AP, or 6 AP.
Wind Spirit + Location: 202 * .55 * 1.8 = 199 / AP, or 5 AP; 4 AP with sufficient extra resources.
TL;DR: A Dark/Wind spirit, and an appropriate location, bring all of those to within reach at around four AP - close enough for resources or EPC drip to do the rest. CDE does it without any extra assistance, as has been noted.
I'm going to eat lunch and take a nap now.
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