So! Calculating exp for our Arts, to minimize AP spent!
SCS: It currently says '500, 500'; I'm going to make an assumption and guess that SCS 8 is supposed to be 650, like FVM 8 and EPC 7.
These numbers will be using EPC 7 and 'High' resources.
T = 6
S/4 = 5 * 4 + 10 * 4 + 40 * 4 + 80 * 4 = 135
R = 6 (stealth) + 20 (High Resources) + 35 (EPC Yin) + 30 (EPC Moon) + x (Other sources) = 91
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Motion) + .05 (Spine) + l (location) = 1.55 + l
(6 + 135 + 91 + x) * y * .55 * (1.55 + l) = 650
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 232 * .55 * 1.55 = 197.78
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 232 * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 593.34
x = ?, y = 3, l = 0: (232 + x) * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 650 :: 593.34 + 2.5575x = 650 :: 2.5575x = 56.66 :: x ~= 22.15
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: (232) * 3 * .55 * 1.75 = 669.9.
x = 0, y = 2, l = .3: (232) * 2 * .55 * 1.85 = 472.12
x = 0, y = 2, l = .5: (232) * 2 * .55 * 2.05 = 523.16
x=x, y = 2, l = .5: 523.16 + 2.255x = 650 :: 2.255x = 126.84 :: x = 56.24
SCS 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, without a location multiplier, provided we find additional sources of resource dice totaling roughly 25 raw dice, or obtain an addition to our multiplier of at least 0.2. Otherwise, approximately sixty successes from other sources would be required.
With 2 AP, and multiplier bonuses totaling an additional .5 (location + hanyi ?), it would take roughly 130 additional successes to reach SCS 8, or ~60 extra resource dice, or some combination of both.
Conclusion: Shaved 1 AP off of SCS 8. Shaving 2 AP would require more resources than I think we can obtain.
FVM, at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Heart/Lung) = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 188.87 * 3 = 566.61
x = x: 566.61 + 3 * .55 * 1.7 * x :: 2.805x + 566.61 = 650 :: 2.805x = 83.39 :: x = 29.72.
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: 202 * 3 * .55 * 1.9 = 633.27
x = x: 633.27 + 3.135x = 650 :: 3.135x = 16.73 :: x = 5.336
FVM 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, provided one of the following is true: 90 successes are dumped into it from EPC, or sources of resource dice totaling roughly 30 dice are found, or a multiplier of .2 is found and resources totaling roughly 6 dice are found, or some combination of the above.
Conclusion: We'll need to find a good place for either Water or Darkness in the coming month, but we can shave an AP off of this, too.
TRF at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + x = 26 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Zhengui) + .1 (Sixiang) + .1 (Heart) + .05 (Spine) + l = 1.45 + l
(6 + 135 + 26 + x) * y * .55 * (1.45 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 167 * .55 * 1.45 = 133.1825
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 133.1825 * 4 = 532.73
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 167 * 4 * .55 * 1.65 = 598.95
x = x: 598.95 + 3.63x = 650 :: 3.63x = 51.05 :: x = 14
TRF is really hampered here, by both the relatively low multiplier and missing the extra dice from EPC. In order to do it in one 'Turn', it needs either 6 AP, about 36 resource dice from other sources totaling, or an additional multiplier of .2 and around 14 more resource dice. Otherwise it needs roughly 120 successes from other sources.
Spread out over two turns it takes five AP.
Conclusion: AP cost can be reduced to 4 provided sufficient steps are taken.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4/5/6
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Lung) + l = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 188.87 * 4 = 755.48
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 188.87 * 5 = 944.35
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 188.87 * 6 = 1,133.22
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 755.48 + 3.74x = 1200 :: 3.74x = 444.52 :: x = 118.85.
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 944.35 + x * 5 * .55 * 1.7: 944.35 + 4.675x = 1200 :: 4.675x = 255.65 :: x = 54.68
x = x, y = 5, l = .2: (202 + x) * 5 * .55 * 1.9 = 1200 :: 1055.45 + 5.225x = 1200 :: 5.225x = 144.55 :: x = 27.665
x = x, y = 6, l = 0: 1,133.22 + 5.61x = 1200 :: 5.61x = 66.78 :: x = 11.90
We'd need to conjure up over four hundred successes to master FSS in four AP. Five AP over two turns isn't quite so crazy (Or six AP in one turn), though that requires obtaining at least a .2 multiplier and 28 or more resource dice.
Six AP over two turns is very doable, only requiring an extra twelve resource dice each turn - something Zeqing will probably provide by herself.
Conclusion: Can't do it, but that's not surprising. We can easily go from 3/6 to 5/6 in one turn at four AP.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 30 (EPC Moon) + x = 56 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Lung) + .1 (Motion) + l = 1.6 + l
(6 + 135 + 56 + x) * y * .55 * (1.6 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: (6 + 135 + 56) * 1 * .55 * 1.6 = 197 * .55 * 1.6 = 173.36
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 173.36 * 4 = 693.44
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 173.36 * 5 = 866.8
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 693.44 + 3.52x = 900 :: 3.52x = 206.56 :: x = 52.16
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 197 * 4 * .55 * 1.8 = 780.12
x = x, y = 4, l = .2: 780.12 + 3.96x = 900 :: 3.96x = 119.88 :: x = 30.27
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 866.8 + 4.4x = 900 :: 4.4x = 33.2 :: x = 7.45
This will take a combination of a good multiplier and thirty plus extra resource dice to manage in four AP.
Five AP over two turns, or Six AP in one turn, drops what we need down to less than ten extra resource dice.
Conclusion: Can be done in Four AP, provided we get a good multiplier bonus and a nice chunk of extra resource dice.
Summary: Mastering SCS, FVM, TRF, FSS, and PLR should take roughly 25 AP in the worst case. In the best case, 18 AP, split between two turns for FSS and PLR.
TL;DR: Find the best locations, the most awesome drugs, and bind a Wind/Darkness or Wind/Water/Darkness spirit of some kind!
Ah, @veekie, those were estimates - I hadn't actually done the math yet, :/.
CWY: requires 750 successes for Green Two Mastery.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (Yin) = 61
A = 1
m = 1.0 + .05 (Spine)
(6 + 135 + 61) * 1 * .55 * 1.05 = 202 * .55 * 1.05 = 116 / AP
6.5 AP to mastery without a Darkness spirit and a Darkness location. The multiplier jumps to 1.55 with those (at .2 and .3 respectively), for 172 / AP, or 4.5 AP total.
ENM requires 750 successes to Green Two Mastery.
202 * .55 * 1.35 ( +0.2 Wind, +0.1 Imperial 8, +0.05 Spine) = 149/AP; or 5 AP in total. Darkness spirit and location jumps it to 1.85, for 205 / AP, or 3.5 AP total.
CDE requires 840 successes to Mastery.
R = 6 + 20 + 35 + 30 = 91
(6 + 135 + 91) * 1 * .55 * (1 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Lung)) = 232 * .55 * 1.7 = 216 / AP, or 4 AP total.
A moon or water location should bring that multiplier to 2.0, for 232 * .55 * 2.0 = 255. Doable in 3 AP if we get ~25 extra resource dice.
HDW requires 750 successes to Green Two Mastery.
R = 26
m = 1 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .2 (Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Heart) = 1.8
(6 + 135 + 26) = 166 * .55 * 1.8 = 164 / AP, for 4.5 AP total
A wind location ups the multiplier to *2.1 = 191 / AP; 4 AP total; a Wind spirit on top of that is *2.3 = 209 / AP; or 3.5 AP.
AFL requires 860 successes to Mastery.
R = 61
m = 1 + .2 ( Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) = 1.3
(6 + 135 + 61) * .55 * 1.3 = 202 * .55 * 1.3 = 144 / AP, or 6 AP.
Wind Spirit + Location: 202 * .55 * 1.8 = 199 / AP, or 5 AP; 4 AP with sufficient extra resources.
TL;DR: A Dark/Wind, and an appropriate location, bring all of those to within reach at around four AP - close enough for resources or EPC drip to do the rest. CDE does it without any extra assistance, as has been noted.
Mmmh, It is rather confusing when you use 'mastery' when talking about 'Green 2 peak' when those are arts that go to Green 3. 'Mastery' usually refers to complete mastery when it's not prefaced from the get go we are talking about Green 2.
For reference, the above AP needed for all the arts is something I made in the post above (we have already functionning spreadsheets for those), though I made no assumptions of being able to get new sites/etc.
Also, there is no way we are going to use high pills.
there was already a discussion on discord about it, but regarding TRF:
currently TRF is the only source of Fortitude we have besides jobs, which in turn is the Skill used to determine our physical armor.
our current Fortitude level is E(10/15) and our physical armor is C17 (Stamina C, Fortitude E, TRF 10, AS 2, equip 25).
In order to get physical armor to B we need to raise it by 13+ and the easiest way to do so is to get the Fortitude skill to C.
To get the needed 25 xp for that via d6 dice, we would need to use about 8 dice, which could be achieved by training TRF with 2AP for 4 turns.
This has the downside that we would get TRF6 later but it is still an option worth considering.
there was already a discussion on discord about it, but regarding TRF:
currently TRF is the only source of Fortitude we have besides jobs, which in turn is the Skill used to determine our physical armor.
our current Fortitude level is E(10/15) and our physical armor is C17 (Stamina C, Fortitude E, TRF 10, AS 2, equip 25).
In order to get physical armor to B we need to raise it by 13+ and the easiest way to do so is to get the Fortitude skill to C.
To get the needed 25 xp for that via d6 dice, we would need to use about 8 dice, which could be achieved by training TRF with 2AP for 4 turns.
This has the downside that we would get TRF6 later but it is still an option worth considering.
Also, TRF6 now being 'only' 650exp means we are likely to get it within 5AP, not 8, as long as we have enough ressources for 8GSS weeks. This means Fortitude C actually need omake points to get unless we get a new art that has fortitude (be it TRF+ or a replacement or something else).
Also, TRF6 now being 'only' 650exp means we are likely to get it within 5AP, not 8, as long as we have enough ressources for 8GSS weeks. This means Fortitude C actually need omake points to get unless we get a new art that has fortitude (be it TRF+ or a replacement or something else).
So, from what I understand, the tl:dr of different analysis would be:
CWY:
+rocks social meetings
+another way to disrupt enemies in combat
-may look bad
-not in tune with the rest of the skillset
-hard to learn
ENM:
+dedicated stealth art
+tactical advantage
+fucks with minds of people
-fucks with minds of people
-noone wants it for domain
HotDW:
+potentially incredible scout art
+potentially "good", "harmonic" influence on our domain
-probably really not subtle
CDE:
+good overall
+easy to learn
+summons things
-summons things
-not very good in anything
AFL:
+specific flight enhchancer
+larceny art
-worse than SCS movement art
If this is correct, then the best arts imo would be AFL (not sure now) and CDE* (even though I don't like any of them). AFL's a flight enchancer for level where flight isn't common, so it must be either really bad or really good; it seems to be a generally okay movement art and it's the first larceny art we've discovered. CDE is good as a base for our perception; with condition that we take something else later it's a really good pick for what little time LQ'll take to cultivate it.
*I rate CDE over HotDW because LQ's primary not a scout but a spymaster for a polititian. Being subtle is a must.
Tbh I like CWY and ENM most of all, but as people've pointed out, there are several flaws in them that are hard to play around.
tbh, I'd kinda prefer a version of ENM based on the concepts of isolation and being forgotten and overlooked. It would tie much more into Ling Qi's thing of weaponising her past experiences ala. FVM, and provide a poignant contrast to our happier friendship stuff.
Of course, actually getting something like that and then having it work as well mechanically is another issue
If this is correct, then the best arts imo would be AFL and CDE* (even though I don't like any of them). AFL's a flight enchancer for level where flight isn't common, so it must be either really bad or really good; it seems to be a generally okay movement art and it's the first larceny art we've discovered. CDE is good as a base for our perception; with condition that we take something else later it's a really good pick for what little time LQ'll take to cultivate it.
*I rate CDE over HotDW because LQ's primary not a scout but a spymaster for a polititian. Being subtle is a must.
Tbh I like CWY and ENM most of all, but as people've pointed out, there are several flaws in them that are hard to play around.
AFL meant to be used at casual face punch range, requires flight to be useful, and is basically a worse SCS with inconvenient requirements. But it does give larceny, so I suppose it has that.
If this is correct, then the best arts imo would be AFL and CDE* (even though I don't like any of them). AFL's a flight enchancer for level where flight isn't common, so it must be either really bad or really good; it seems to be a generally okay movement art and it's the first larceny art we've discovered. CDE is good as a base for our perception; with condition that we take something else later it's a really good pick for what little time LQ'll take to cultivate it.
Not at all. Lark is literally the least useful of these arts, providing no coverage of the core holes in our build that we need to fill. CWY... is awkward. It has potential when used the right way, but needs a lot of build finagling and we'd need to find more arts to make it work well.
Ephemeral Harmonious Diviner is the easiest combo that gives us the base build coverage we need to flesh out our build (with the eternal caveat that this may change with more options).
That being said, taking Lark as an impulse pick for fun, and just training it for a short term power-up is perfectly viable. It caps in Appraisal. It uses Arm and Leg meridians. We have spare arm meridians for days, and we have 1 spare leg meridian and can afford to open a couple more anyway since we'll want them for the later levels of PLR at the very least. Quickly mastering Lark and scrunching the Leg down could be a perfectly reasonable way to get some great marginal returns.
tbh, I'd kinda prefer a version of ENM based on the concepts of isolation and being forgotten and overlooked. It would tie much more into Ling Qi's thing of weaponising her past experiences ala. FVM, and provide a poignant contrast to our happier friendship stuff.
Of course, actually getting something like that and then having it work as well mechanically is another issue
Thing is, ENM is decent even if we never roll another stealth check in our lives, and incredible if we do anything stealth related. There might be a more good art out there but unless one comes along from Cai this is probably the best offensive buff art we're going to see in Archive 1 considering our current build.
AFL meant to be used at casual face punch range, requires flight to be useful, and is basically a worse SCS with inconvenient requirements. But it does give larceny, so I suppose it has that.
ENM is basically a workhorse for us. It gives significant spiritual avoid, spiritual hit, spiritual penetration, speed and even some physical things. Oh, and it also debuff and does stealth.
It's a all-purpose with a slight stealth bent art. If you want to talk about the real stealth art of the lot, it's Lark.
So! Calculating exp for our Arts, to minimize AP spent!
SCS: It currently says '500, 500'; I'm going to make an assumption and guess that SCS 8 is supposed to be 650, like FVM 8 and EPC 7.
These numbers will be using EPC 7 and 'High' resources.
T = 6
S/4 = 5 * 4 + 10 * 4 + 40 * 4 + 80 * 4 = 135
R = 6 (stealth) + 20 (High Resources) + 35 (EPC Yin) + 30 (EPC Moon) + x (Other sources) = 91
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Motion) + .05 (Spine) + l (location) = 1.55 + l
(6 + 135 + 91 + x) * y * .55 * (1.55 + l) = 650
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 232 * .55 * 1.55 = 197.78
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 232 * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 593.34
x = ?, y = 3, l = 0: (232 + x) * 3 * .55 * 1.55 = 650 :: 593.34 + 2.5575x = 650 :: 2.5575x = 56.66 :: x ~= 22.15
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: (232) * 3 * .55 * 1.75 = 669.9.
x = 0, y = 2, l = .3: (232) * 2 * .55 * 1.85 = 472.12
x = 0, y = 2, l = .5: (232) * 2 * .55 * 2.05 = 523.16
x=x, y = 2, l = .5: 523.16 + 2.255x = 650 :: 2.255x = 126.84 :: x = 56.24
SCS 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, without a location multiplier, provided we find additional sources of resource dice totaling roughly 25 raw dice, or obtain an addition to our multiplier of at least 0.2. Otherwise, approximately sixty successes from other sources would be required.
With 2 AP, and multiplier bonuses totaling an additional .5 (location + hanyi ?), it would take roughly 130 additional successes to reach SCS 8, or ~60 extra resource dice, or some combination of both.
Conclusion: Shaved 1 AP off of SCS 8. Shaving 2 AP would require more resources than I think we can obtain.
FVM, at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Heart/Lung) = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 3, l = 0: 188.87 * 3 = 566.61
x = x: 566.61 + 3 * .55 * 1.7 * x :: 2.805x + 566.61 = 650 :: 2.805x = 83.39 :: x = 29.72.
x = 0, y = 3, l = .2: 202 * 3 * .55 * 1.9 = 633.27
x = x: 633.27 + 3.135x = 650 :: 3.135x = 16.73 :: x = 5.336
FVM 8 can be achieved in 3 AP, provided one of the following is true: 90 successes are dumped into it from EPC, or sources of resource dice totaling roughly 30 dice are found, or a multiplier of .2 is found and resources totaling roughly 6 dice are found, or some combination of the above.
Conclusion: We'll need to find a good place for either Water or Darkness in the coming month, but we can shave an AP off of this, too.
TRF at EPC 7. Requires 650 successes.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + x = 26 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Zhengui) + .1 (Sixiang) + .1 (Heart) + .05 (Spine) + l = 1.45 + l
(6 + 135 + 26 + x) * y * .55 * (1.45 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 167 * .55 * 1.45 = 133.1825
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 133.1825 * 4 = 532.73
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 167 * 4 * .55 * 1.65 = 598.95
x = x: 598.95 + 3.63x = 650 :: 3.63x = 51.05 :: x = 14
TRF is really hampered here, by both the relatively low multiplier and missing the extra dice from EPC. In order to do it in one 'Turn', it needs either 6 AP, about 36 resource dice from other sources totaling, or an additional multiplier of .2 and around 14 more resource dice. Otherwise it needs roughly 120 successes from other sources.
Spread out over two turns it takes five AP.
Conclusion: AP cost can be reduced to 4 provided sufficient steps are taken.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (EPC Yin) + x = 61 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4/5/6
m = 1.0 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Lung) + l = 1.7 + l
(6 + 135 + 61 + x) * y * .55 * (1.7 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: 202 * .55 * 1.7 = 188.87
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 188.87 * 4 = 755.48
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 188.87 * 5 = 944.35
x = 0, y = 6, l = 0: 188.87 * 6 = 1,133.22
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 755.48 + 3.74x = 1200 :: 3.74x = 444.52 :: x = 118.85.
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 944.35 + x * 5 * .55 * 1.7: 944.35 + 4.675x = 1200 :: 4.675x = 255.65 :: x = 54.68
x = x, y = 5, l = .2: (202 + x) * 5 * .55 * 1.9 = 1200 :: 1055.45 + 5.225x = 1200 :: 5.225x = 144.55 :: x = 27.665
x = x, y = 6, l = 0: 1,133.22 + 5.61x = 1200 :: 5.61x = 66.78 :: x = 11.90
We'd need to conjure up over four hundred successes to master FSS in four AP. Five AP over two turns isn't quite so crazy (Or six AP in one turn), though that requires obtaining at least a .2 multiplier and 28 or more resource dice.
Six AP over two turns is very doable, only requiring an extra twelve resource dice each turn - something Zeqing will probably provide by herself.
Conclusion: Can't do it, but that's not surprising. We can easily go from 3/6 to 5/6 in one turn at four AP.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 30 (EPC Moon) + x = 56 + x
A = y = 1/2/3/4
m = 1.0 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Lung) + .1 (Motion) + l = 1.6 + l
(6 + 135 + 56 + x) * y * .55 * (1.6 + l)
x = 0, y = 1, l = 0: (6 + 135 + 56) * 1 * .55 * 1.6 = 197 * .55 * 1.6 = 173.36
x = 0, y = 4, l = 0: 173.36 * 4 = 693.44
x = 0, y = 5, l = 0: 173.36 * 5 = 866.8
x = x, y = 4, l = 0: 693.44 + 3.52x = 900 :: 3.52x = 206.56 :: x = 52.16
x = 0, y = 4, l = .2: 197 * 4 * .55 * 1.8 = 780.12
x = x, y = 4, l = .2: 780.12 + 3.96x = 900 :: 3.96x = 119.88 :: x = 30.27
x = x, y = 5, l = 0: 866.8 + 4.4x = 900 :: 4.4x = 33.2 :: x = 7.45
This will take a combination of a good multiplier and thirty plus extra resource dice to manage in four AP.
Five AP over two turns, or Six AP in one turn, drops what we need down to less than ten extra resource dice.
Conclusion: Can be done in Four AP, provided we get a good multiplier bonus and a nice chunk of extra resource dice.
Summary: Mastering SCS, FVM, TRF, FSS, and PLR should take roughly 25 AP in the worst case. In the best case, 18 AP, split between two turns for FSS and PLR.
TL;DR: Find the best locations, the most awesome drugs, and bind a Wind/Darkness or Wind/Water/Darkness spirit of some kind!
Ah, @veekie, those were estimates - I hadn't actually done the math yet, :/.
CWY: requires 750 successes for Green Two Mastery.
T = 6
S/4 = 135
R = 6 + 20 + 35 (Yin) = 61
A = 1
m = 1.0 + .05 (Spine)
(6 + 135 + 61) * 1 * .55 * 1.05 = 202 * .55 * 1.05 = 116 / AP
6.5 AP to mastery without a Darkness spirit and a Darkness location. The multiplier jumps to 1.55 with those (at .2 and .3 respectively), for 172 / AP, or 4.5 AP total.
ENM requires 750 successes to Green Two Mastery.
202 * .55 * 1.35 ( +0.2 Wind, +0.1 Imperial 8, +0.05 Spine) = 149/AP; or 5 AP in total. Darkness spirit and location jumps it to 1.85, for 205 / AP, or 3.5 AP total.
CDE requires 840 successes to Mastery.
R = 6 + 20 + 35 + 30 = 91
(6 + 135 + 91) * 1 * .55 * (1 + .2 (Moon) + .2 (Sixiang Moon) + .1 (Sixiang Water) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Lung)) = 232 * .55 * 1.7 = 216 / AP, or 4 AP total.
A moon or water location should bring that multiplier to 2.0, for 232 * .55 * 2.0 = 255. Doable in 3 AP if we get ~25 extra resource dice.
HDW requires 750 successes to Green Two Mastery.
R = 26
m = 1 + .2 (Music) + .2 (Sixiang Music) + .2 (Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) + .1 (Heart) = 1.8
(6 + 135 + 26) = 166 * .55 * 1.8 = 164 / AP, for 4.5 AP total
A wind location ups the multiplier to *2.1 = 191 / AP; 4 AP total; a Wind spirit on top of that is *2.3 = 209 / AP; or 3.5 AP.
AFL requires 860 successes to Mastery.
R = 61
m = 1 + .2 ( Wind) + .1 (Imperial 8) = 1.3
(6 + 135 + 61) * .55 * 1.3 = 202 * .55 * 1.3 = 144 / AP, or 6 AP.
Wind Spirit + Location: 202 * .55 * 1.8 = 199 / AP, or 5 AP; 4 AP with sufficient extra resources.
TL;DR: A Dark/Wind, and an appropriate location, bring all of those to within reach at around four AP - close enough for resources or EPC drip to do the rest. CDE does it without any extra assistance, as has been noted.
I like AFL because it gives flight bonuses - as flight is rare until Cyan (?) I like being even better at it than most of the rest of our competitors. Remember how Chu Song was hapless against us because of flight.
Also excellent for reconnaissance.
@yrsillar - can you add whatever the winning vote is at the top of the relevant update? It hasn't come up yet here but in the last thread, speaking as someone who only read through it once it was done, sometimes it was annoying not knowing what the winning vote was.
Yeah, like I have said already personally dont have an issue with having ENM as a domain we would still have 3 slots to add other things that can make up for what people dont like about it, but even without the domain we should pick it up for its uses.
I'd have to see what the insights were and how LQ feels about the art as she trains or uses it. On the surface I would say no for domain but maybe there's a "fleeting moment" bent to it, and that's something LQ has experienced in her day-to-day enough that I'd consider it. If it's just memory stealing, eh, probably a no.
Keep in mind while 4 slots (and I don't actually know how many slots we're looking at you just said 4) sounds like a lot we have FVM, SCS, and TRF at the very least, and if we pick up Harmony we'd probably be pushing it towards domain too. We're almost certainly full up on domain just from core, so any other considerations to domain need to be perfect. These arts mostly aren't, ENM included.
I'm leery of specing into flight in the sect famed for fighting flying barbarians.
We didn't see much of it in scrub tier, but we're now at the point of competing with people who have actually seen combat service. (If assassin moon senpai is anything to go by.)
Anyway, SCS actually gets buffed by darkness now, and as our signature move and dress both produce it, well.....
Well then, your opinion appears to be in the distinct minority judging from what people have said so far:
So yeah, I'm expressing an opinion (as anything concerning personal aesthetics has to be), but it is one that seems to resonate with a lot of people and match their intuitions. If it doesn't match your intuitions, that is a pity, but Quests are majority rules, after all.
You say that in response to a post that got like twenty likes dude. It's nowhere near as clear cut as you seem to be insisting here. And you haven't even seen me begun to actively campaign for this issue either.
We don't slot things into our domain because they are "earned"; we slot them because they are the building blocks that we want to define us.
Our initial Domain theme was Home, despite the fact that much of our experience has been defined by lacking a home. Our Argent Mirror insight was about "revealing all deceptions, including those of the self", despite our limited experience with such things; there was some Argent Mirror-y introspection about how we grasp onto our friends and the like, but it is more a case of an isolated example than a repeated pattern.
So the question you should be asking isn't whether this is the kind of person that Ling Qi has been or even whether it is the kind of person that Ling Qi is - the question you want to ask yourself is whether this is the kind of person that Ling Qi wants to be.
We chose Home because the lack thereof was absolutely defining for us. In the same way a shadow is defined by the partial absence of light. 'We chose Home as being important despite being homeless' is missing the point.
As for Argent mirror not being connected to Ling Qi? I'm sorry, did you miss the spider spirit bullying the shit out of Ling Qi for manslaughtering two people and trying to justify it to herself? Of deluding herself into thinking all her actions were justified and necessary, up until she realized 'wow, I don't want to get people trying to help me killed for my own convenience anymore'. To say nothing of how she reflected on her running away been entirely built on misunderstanding and self-deception of how her mom was trying to help her. It's a pretty fucking important lesson for Qi to have learned if it's directly responsible for her abandoning her first home isn't it?
But how foundational is Harmony to her? Her vision of Home when we chose Domain wasn't some grand feast of all her loved ones, of bringing everyone together- it was a place where she could trust people to return to and share with her despite knowing they'd always leave at some point. Linq Qi's desire to better empathize with CRX's Justice is entirely cerebral right now. She's not a peacemaker, she's done a lot to indirectly inflame issues amongst her friends as she has to reconcile them. Meizhen's romantic interest, Xiulan's jealousy and her arranged marriage, and Su Ling's cognizance of our apathy to people outside of our monkey sphere.
So you ask me to think of what Ling Qi wants over what she is, when I'm asking why does the Ling Qi that is want that? Because her existing Domain choices follow perfectly from that despite your assertions. We have a tiny monkey sphere, our Home and the exclusivity of that is indicative of that, people have called us out on that, and we don't have nearly that personal drive along Qi had to make friends to force herself to care.
TLDR: Fuck fixating on an idealized endpoint, it's all about that sweet sweet gloomy air headed journey.
AFL being very similar to SCS is a good thing. It works on our strengths and so makes sure we don't get countered by someone with that one art . Now he'll need two specific counter arts to beat us which is significantly less likely to happen.
Did people already forget the old stacking arts paradigm? This is essentially the return of it: stacking arts makes the stacked stat/skill/whatever much harder for others to resist.
I will point out that sometimes we don't want to just fill holes. Having overlap can be a good thing, especially for areas as key to us as stealth/initiative/avoid.
Plus, the capstone tech apparently requiring flight makes me really interested in how specifically it could be improved, potentially furthering an advantage of ours that notably very few to none in the Inner Sect should have (i.e. flight).
I will point out that sometimes we don't want to just fill holes. Having overlap can be a good thing, especially for areas as key to us as stealth/initiative/avoid.
Sure, and if we didn't already have a ton of defensive buffs to stack, if we didn't already have TRF, if we didn't already have a million different things we're trying to cover, if we weren't trying to be support, I'd be all over it.
As it is, it's running into the "we can only have so many arts" problem.
This assertion is not based on anything beyond Cyan being the usual start for flight. So, on that end you're right, it is possible they don't have flight. But by making it you make the implicit assumption that flight is an advantage because one person has it and one person doesn't.
This is incomplete, because the Argent Sect fights the Cloud Tribes which fight in moving storm hordes the complete assumption should be that flight is an advantage when one person has it and can resist it being dispelled, and the other person doesn't have it and doesn't have a counter to it.
Given the location we should expect counters to our flight, and with anti-dispell not being a thing we are good at we're vulnerable to it.
AFL being very similar to SCS is a good thing. It works on our strengths and so makes sure we don't get countered by someone with that one art . Now he'll need two specific counter arts to beat us which is significantly less likely to happen.
Did people already forget the old stacking arts paradigm? This is essentially the return of it: stacking arts makes the stacked stat/skill/whatever much harder for others to resist.
I will point out that sometimes we don't want to just fill holes. Having overlap can be a good thing, especially for areas as key to us as stealth/initiative/avoid.
Plus, the capstone tech apparently requiring flight makes me really interested in how specifically it could be improved, potentially furthering an advantage of ours that notably very few to none in the Inner Sect should have (i.e. flight).
Overlap can be good, though the overlaps should mostly be about our focus. Still, having so many people faster than us previously was teeth gnashing, so I can see the attraction of Lark. However, the archive level 1 dip was more of a "get arts that plug a hold we currently have", given how for the arts supposed to enhance our focus it should be at least archive 2 (so that the arts are as relevant as possible for the competition).
Still, apart from that Lark has a few issues:
Not only doesn't it get to Green 4+ (for competition), but it doesn't even serves the role of 'taking the mantle of SCS until we can find a real replacement or better a succesor'. Its mastery is at the same level as SCS, so there is no 'it will overtake and bypass it' effect.
It's melee, but not damage (so far). Given the stealth/dance being the mastery used for attacking, it likely won't do damage. This means that it gives an incentive to be in melee (because we need to be there for all of its offensive techs) but it actually doesn't give us a finisher for when we are in melee, making it more of a 'support for another melee art', which causes problem.
The art lore hints at always being behind the enemy, making it very likely following techniques would have a 'dash behind the enemy' tech, which is also a tech that goes against our fighting style... and seems to be a One with Shadow-type tech. Like with One with Shadow which was more or less a dead technique for Ling Qi, this one not only will be the same but will also have to contend with One with Shadow itself.
Sure, and if we didn't already have a ton of defensive buffs to stack, if we didn't already have TRF, if we didn't already have a million different things we're trying to cover, if we weren't trying to be support, I'd be all over it.
As it is, it's running into the "we can only have so many arts" problem.
You say that in response to a post that got like twenty likes dude. It's nowhere near as clear cut as you seem to be insisting here. And you haven't even seen me begun to actively campaign for this issue either.
We chose Home because the lack thereof was absolutely defining for us. In the same way a shadow is defined by the partial absence of light. 'We chose Home as being important despite being homeless' is missing the point.
As for Argent mirror not being connected to Ling Qi? I'm sorry, did you miss the spider spirit bullying the shit out of Ling Qi for manslaughtering two people and trying to justify it to herself? Of deluding herself into thinking all her actions were justified and necessary, up until she realized 'wow, I don't want to get people trying to help me killed for my own convenience anymore'. To say nothing of how she reflected on her running away been entirely built on misunderstanding and self-deception of how her mom was trying to help her. It's a pretty fucking important lesson for Qi to have learned if it's directly responsible for her abandoning her first home isn't it?
But how foundational is Harmony to her? Her vision of Home when we chose Domain wasn't some grand feast of all her loved ones, of bringing everyone together- it was a place where she could trust people to return to and share with her despite knowing they'd always leave at some point. Linq Qi's desire to better empathize with CRX's Justice is entirely cerebral right now. She's not a peacemaker, she's done a lot to indirectly inflame issues amongst her friends as she has to reconcile them. Meizhen's romantic interest, Xiulan's jealousy and her arranged marriage, and Su Ling's cognizance of our apathy to people outside of our monkey sphere.
So you ask me to think of what Ling Qi wants over what she is, when I'm asking why does the Ling Qi that is want that? Because her existing Domain choices follow perfectly from that despite your assertions. We have a tiny monkey sphere, our Home and the exclusivity of that is indicative of that, people have called us out on that, and we don't have nearly that personal drive along Qi had to make friends to force herself to care.
TLDR: Fuck fixating on an idealized endpoint, it's all about that sweet sweet gloomy air headed journey.
What's interesting about Harmony is that it is, in fact, about having a small monkeysphere. Our bonus to the ones we don't care about are perfunctional, like how we are barely giving notice to random Cai members during the tournament prelims.
It's all about rousing up our true loved ones. And, whatever you say, that is so much more Ling Qi than any of the other arts we have with, maybe, the exception of FVM, which is about perseverance through loss. Harmony is not 'Justice', it's about hope and curiosity and being true to friends, three defining aspects of who Ling Qi is trying to be.
Argent Mirror was completely not related to Ling Qi, btw. Ling Qi learned to try to stop lying to herself... but before she slotted it into her domain, it was still very much a 'desire', not a thing 'done'. Her reflections were not about lack of lying to herself, they were about deciding she wanted loved ones.
