[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.



[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
Awwww, we got a hug from Alicent. I suspected Johanna wouldn't be wild about us dancing with a woman, but hopefully we've at least balanced that out a bit with our conversation with her.

[X][Rhea] Agree to speak to your father about this matter on her behalf.

[X][Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
Awwww, we got a hug from Alicent. I suspected Johanna wouldn't be wild about us dancing with a woman, but hopefully we've at least balanced that out a bit with our conversation with her.
I honestly think it is less "dance with a woman" and more "broke protocol and caused a big scene at her wedding". A wedding that was already put together to highlight the Targaryen house above any others.

It is pretty easy for someone to read Rhaenyras' actions as her showing off that she (and to a lesser extent the rest of her house) is not beholden to the same rules of society as everyone else, and Johanna doesn't know her well enough yet to know what Rhaenyra's actually thinking.

Is this locking us into the Lesbian/Bi route or is it literally "this was fun I hope we can be friends as you understand what being a female ruler is like"
Picking this can't lock Rhaenyra unto the Bi route since she's been there one since the beginning.
To find Love
Your parents loved each other deeply, the void left by your mother's death was proof enough of that. While the end result terrifies you, you cannot deny you want something similar to what your parents had. You want to love someone so deeply that leaves a mark on your very soul and for them love you as much in turn. It doesn't have to be your husband, it need not even be a man. You're not really sure what you're looking for, perhaps it is someone you already know, or a complete stranger. All you know is they must be out there somewhere.
 
[X] Agree to speak to your father about this matter on her behalf.

[X] "I do, and I hope you seek my affection as well."
 
It is pretty easy for someone to read Rhaenyras' actions as her showing off that she (and to a lesser extent the rest of her house) is not beholden to the same rules of society as everyone else
To be fair, this is Official Targ Doctrine and has been Manifest Targ Behavior for time out of mind.
 
[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.

[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."

Did...did people not expect the dance to draw attention attention and get something of a reputation hit? I wasn't in that vote but I don't regret it. Half of Rhaenyra's appeal is as a trouble-maker.
 
im currently waffling between going to Viserys directly or getting Jayne and/or Otto's help, i can see strong arguments for both.

side note: we get 3 actions per turn now after the wedding, correct? i think dedicating that extra slot purely to martial training is a good idea.
it opens us up for diplomacy training which we realy need (i don't feel great about relying on ✨️natural charm✨️ to smooth over any stumbles), and the 3rd slot can alternate between dragon riding and learning an instrument or whatever else ppl think we need.
Teen Spirit mentioned considering adding one extra action for Rhaenyra when she turns 16. Which is not after the wedding.
Well IIRC Teen Spirit said that he would probably revise the action economy once Rhaenyra becomes of age (so once she is 16) or we finish the Royal Progress

But there was no mention of how he will do that, so we don't know how many extra action/conversations we will get, or if we will keep the 3 month turn...
Awwww, we got a hug from Alicent. I suspected Johanna wouldn't be wild about us dancing with a woman, but hopefully we've at least balanced that out a bit with our conversation with her.
Well, as you can see despite degrading the opinion of several people about us it didn't change the relationship level with anyone like it did with Daemon...

So we are still cordial with Johanna, warm with Viserys and so forth, so we don't need to worry too much about it...
 
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Teen Spirit mentioned considering adding one extra action for Rhaenyra when she turns 16. Which is not after the wedding.
my mistake then, got her age mixed up, thanks for the correction.


[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.
[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
I know our Rhaenyra is defiant, but I just hope we can do some things more discreetly in the future.

It's not really "defiant" if you do thing quietly no one can see

[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.

[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
Dragon beats Big Army beats Social Norms beats Small Army

These sort of statements are only half true, or else Aegon wouldn't have bothered with being annoited by the High Septon or Jaehaerys with having Barth write the Doctrine of exceptionalism and then having his hired septons travel across the continent to convince people of its truth rather then just telling people to sit and spin when they complained about his marriage with Alyssane. If anything I'd say it's something of a point in GRRM's writing that dragons are an effective tool for conquest, but not actually sufficient by themselves for rule, with the most extreme example of it being Maegor, who ruled by dragon more then any other Targ, and in the end just got assassinated when he wasn't on Balerion because the people he ruled hated his guts. Same with Hugh Hammer and Ulf White who were killed when they weren't mounting their dragons, the former by a Swordsman, the latter by being poisoned.

GRRM even touches about how dragons are tools for destruction, but not necessarily rule, himself:
GRRM said:
Well, that's an interesting question too. And it's a question if I may verge away from, with history and metaphor to the current reality we live in, you know, it's often been said that the dragons are the nuclear weapons of my imaginary world. They are the most devastating weapon, and they cause great destruction, massive loss of life. but they're not necessarily, you know, I mean, this is part of Dany's storyline and the original novels. I mean, Dany has three dragons, and she can destroy these cities like Meereen, where she finds herself queen, but doesn't mean she can necessarily rule them easily without destroying them. So when do you do that?
 
These sort of statements are only half true, or else Aegon wouldn't have bothered with being annoited by the High Septon or Jaehaerys with having Barth write the Doctrine of exceptionalism and then having his hired septons travel across the continent to convince people of its truth rather then just telling people to sit and spin when they complained about his marriage with Alyssane. If anything I'd say it's something of a point in GRRM's writing that dragons are an effective tool for conquest, but not actually sufficient by themselves for rule, with the most extreme example of it being Maegor, who ruled by dragon more then any other Targ, and in the end just got assassinated when he wasn't on Balerion because the people he ruled hated his guts. Same with Hugh Hammer and Ulf White who were killed when they weren't mounting their dragons, the former by a Swordsman, the latter by being poisoned.

GRRM even touches about how dragons are tools for destruction, but not necessarily rule, himself:
I was making a joke.
 
I see we're following the rules of "First Girl Wins".

[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.

[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
[X] [Rhea] Promise that you will bring up the matter with some people. Speak with Lady Arryn yourself and present Rhea as potential ally for her. Speak with Otto before approaching your father.

[X] [Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
It seems Plan 3 point attack of Otto, Jeyne and Nyra on Rhea issue is winning.

Can't wait to see Otto reaction to Rhaenyra asking him to help her annul Daemon marriage. On another note, wonder how much marriage and betrothal Rhaenyra can meddle in before gaining a title of Matchmaker or something.
 
It seems Plan 3 point attack of Otto, Jeyne and Nyra on Rhea issue is winning.

Can't wait to see Otto reaction to Rhaenyra asking him to help her annul Daemon marriage. On another note, wonder how much marriage and betrothal Rhaenyra can meddle in before gaining a title of Matchmaker or something.

Rhaenys I had a thing where she tried tying the Kingdoms closer via marriages. Getting compared to her might not be that bad considering the general "oh she died too young" gloss to her reputation.
 
Fair enough boss. But I do think that if we continue on acting so publicly that's where we'll be heading. I doubt Viserys will give us much more slack about us getting a reputation of fooling around with women then he did to canon Rhaenyra getting a reputation for fooling around with Daemon, which is what eventually lead to him putting his foot down by forcing Rhaenyra to either marry Laenor or be disinherited.
There are differences between people thinking Rhaenyra probably has some interest in women, and people thinking Rhaenyra had sex with a man outside of marriage. the Latter has a lot more legal implications for Rhaenyra then the former.
 
[X][Rhea] Agree to speak to your father about this matter on her behalf.

[X][Jeyne] "I wanted to see what it is like to dance with a woman, and perhaps make a friend who understands."
 
Sv has a strong "oh no, the consequences of my actions" vibe at times.

That's what I don't understand, it's a fantasy medieval setting, like... what did people expect?, kisses and hugs?, with that said I think Viserys already knows in a way but it's something he will deny if others ask him directly, the question is whether he will ask his daughter in private or not.
 
That's what I don't understand, it's a fantasy medieval setting, like... what did people expect?, kisses and hugs?, with that said I think Viserys already knows in a way but it's something he will deny if others ask him directly, the question is whether he will ask his daughter in private or not.
Historically, seeing two unmarried girls dancing at a party/ball in Europe was not that weird... The reasoning of "I still want to dance and have a good time but I don't have a husband/fiancee and I would prefer to remain non-committal with any of the men here" was mostly accepted...
 
well yes. she's already mad you've been given the spotlight once tonight. a second time is naturally more than can be born. so much for a good relationship with her stepmother.
Man, look at the relationship track (and the update itself), we remain Cordial with Johanna...

She might be annoyed with us, but it is not like we have seriously damaged our relationship with her or anything like that...
 
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