The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
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- Pittsburgh PA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Arguably it is the least bad/disruptive option.
- Pronouns
- Reader
We fucked up. Made a hail mary attempt to get all our ducks lined up in a neat little row to knock down and win the throne, without even the diplomacy stat raise to make it easier. Predictably between all the things we asked for, we ended up asking for things some people were in no way willing to agree to and left ourselves very badly positioned, so we need to suggest an option that will appeal to Viserys's nature and goals rather than the one that's more to our liking. We lack the backing to push a more convenient wife to be than Tyrell.
Ha, that's a good one.
- Pronouns
- Reader
I think that window sailed when team let's marry him to a child for gain with delay slightly in his favor but more in ours won. I tried for the nice way, and if conciliation had won we'd have enough backing to discuss things with him and find a match to his tastes, and maybe even delay the marriage slightly, but we aren't in a position to try something fancy again. We've lost all backing and can only manage a suggestion.
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- Germany
I'm not seeing how talking to him openly about what happened and what we did is somehow "doing something fancy". Trying to push specific candidates is continuing the meddling, not backing down from it.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
A Tyrell match isn't necessarily that great, but the way I see it a process elimination is likely to lead it. We found four potential matches: Dornish, Vypren, Westerling and Tyrell. Dornish is somewhat problematic at a time when the crown is so weak that we sre its only dragonrider. It could lead towards a lot of resentment towards Viserys and at the most extreme might risk giving Corlys ideas about how he can use that unpopularity to try to get the throne by ways other then marriage in a time in which the Velaryons will have Vhagar, Meleys and Seasmoke.
Vypren is such a low placed house that it was even told to us when we came up with the idea that Viserys might refuse the match because of it.
So that leaves us with Westerling and Tyrell. On one hand the Westerlings are a lot less powerful then the Tyrells, but Johanna herself is a very fierce woman who would probably be a very difficult step mother to have who'd fight us all the way if she thought it would benefit her children. Plus while Harold Westerling comes across as a very cool guy it would be remiss to not mention that the current head of the kingsguard is a Westerling given how instrumental the kingsguard as well as praetorian guard institutions have historically been in deposing monarchs.
Not to say that the Tyrells don't have their issues either, given how powerful and wealthy they are. Though there is a hope that a Tyrell match might help in getting Otto to our side, as the Hightowers might dislike their unpopular lord paramounts ascending the throne.
Honestly this feels like a bit of a case of writing initis, in which premade options must be problematic, requiring a write in. Viserys is actively bemoaning his lack of alternatives and originally we didn't even have the option of putting a write in, which would suggest we at least don't view them all as that much of a faux pas given Rhaenyra didn't think of anything herself to say by herself. Answering with a potential match of our own would hardly make us Little Finger. Canonically Viserys even appreciated Lyonel Strong a lot for offering him a marriage suggestion for Rhaenyra, Laenor, that Viserys thought was motivated by the good of the realm rather then just Lyonel's self interest:
View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/qP30bJvaH4k
In that regard I imagine that Viserys might be upset by a suggestion that he should delay marrying all together or choose the Vypren, and maybe the Dornish, as those would be pretty easy to see as us choosing poor matches for him in order to defend our succession, but a Tyrell is a pretty good match that doesn't seem like it'd make us look too self interested. He might even appreciate it for offering him a decent alternative to marrying a young girl like Laena, given he seemed to appreciate Lyonel being able to make him a suggestion.
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- Germany
Teenspirit explicitly bemoaned forgetting an option to just openly talk with Viserys. I'd have argued for it, if it had existed, but since it's now an option via write-in...
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
I checked his posts since the update. Where did he specifically mention regretting not including an option to talk to Viserys? When he made write in an option he just posted this:
Then by all means, do so.
- Pronouns
- Reader
A last minute confession that tries to spin events to paint Visenya in a favorable light is quite the bit of fancy dancing we are attempting to pull off, when nothing can keep Corlys from outing us on the support our attaining a council seat bit should he think to. A white wash of the situation is as very nearly as fancy as it gets.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mentioned it on Discord. Legit I consider the lack of a "just talk to him" option an oversight and a lesson on why I should generally always have Write-ins when possible
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- Who knows?
I think Viserys would regard his 14 year old daughter fumbling a bit in trying to secure her family's future slightly differently from outsiders blatantly throwing their daughters at him for obvious political gain. Like even if Corlys decided to blab in front of everyone (which I don't think would actually be wise for him for various reasons) I don't see Viserys, who's already stressed and discomfotted by the dude shoving his prepubescent daughter at him while his previous wife is fresh in the grave, just uncritically taking Corlys words at face value.
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- Germany
What are you talking about? I'm explicitly telling him everything.
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- Reader
A white wash is a white wash. I'm sure Viserys won't particularly hold it against her but this still leaves Viserys likely feeling less than indulgent of his daughters requests and Otto as the one person well positioned having not already wronged the king for ambition to show up and win him over to alicent being an option, whether his daughter asked him to not marry her or not.
Everything but the council seat support, all painted as having his best interests in mind when a fair deal of securing the throne for herself went into the formation of the alliance pitch. Viserys was certainly considered in the last votes write in, but he was not the primary concern.
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I did not include leaving the council seat part out, so this is purely a bad faith reading of my plan.
- Pronouns
- Reader
You didn't include revealing it either, and the very first bit is her telling him she did all that she could to help him.
All that she could to help him was not cut a deal with Corlys to marry Laena later in return for a bunch of guarantees and betrothals that secured her throne and an opportunity to prove her ability to rule by participating in the small council.
Acquiring Otto's Aid in convincing Viserys to leave the kingslanding in favor of a retreat to dragonstone to mourn properly while the royal navy saw to his peace and isolation from eager matchmakers, with Otto acting as adviser while she ran court in his absence and did her best to dissuade suitors and offer own marriage as distraction would have been everything she could do.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
And again, I do think that us offering Viserys a decent alternative to marrying Laena is something he'd appreciate since its clear Viserys doesn't want this match. In terms of his opinion of us the most important thing is probably that we don't offer a match that makes us look too self interested, much like Lyonel didn't look self interested when he suggested Laenor rather then Harwin.
This is a something of a fair point. Saying that, quoting from Azel's plan: "You did all this out of a desire for him to be happy and the house strong" does come across as a bit of a spin when part of our conversation with Corlys involved us supporting the match that he wanted on the condition that he support our ascent to the Small Council, among other things.
This is a something of a fair point. Saying that, quoting from Azel's plan: "You did all this out of a desire for him to be happy and the house strong" does come across as a bit of a spin when part of our conversation with Corlys involved us supporting the match that he wanted on the condition that he support our ascent to the Small Council, among other things.
- Location
- Germany
I didn't include it because a reasonable reading of "tell him what was said" includes it. I do not want to get ever more detailed with write ins until I'm writing direct speech. That's an incredibly unreasonable demand to make of me.
I'm doing so. We are presenting what we found to him as per my plan.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
My point is that you mentioned earlier that making a suggestion to Viserys would make us come across like Corlys, Otto or Daemon:
I was saying that provided the match we suggest doesn't come across as too self serving then I don't think Viserys will mind if his interactions with Lyonel Strong when the matter of Rhaenyra's own marriage came to a head are any indication. Viserys does want to avoid the marriage with Laena after all.
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Yeah. Look. The updates talked about people throwing their daughters at him repeatedly. Did we really act any better?
Let's just stop the gamer moves before we do actual damage to our relationship.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Saying how we were only looking out for Viserys' happiness and our house in order to get brownie points with him only after Corlys rejected our offer to help get his match across in exchange for him helping us get a small council seat does come across as something of a gamer move itself. Had Corlys told us yes we would be out there trying to convince our father to take a match he told us he doesn't want in order to advance our own interests.
Viserys doesn't want the marriage and feels like he lacks for alternatives. Provided the alternative we offer is good, which one to a house as prominent as Tyrell seems likely to be, I don't think he'd mind.
It's not like the Tyrells are our homies whom Viserys will think we are trying to advocate for by suggesting this match.
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- Germany
The last winning plan explicitly tried to balance Viserys happiness and political realities against each other and I'm going to work with that instead of pivoting to soulless scheming.
- Pronouns
- Reader
I wasn't demanding anything of you, simply pointing out that it's lack of focus when you allude to the rest and paint Rhaenyra's intentions as more selfless than they were leaves it feeling more like an attempt to twist a confession into leverage to guide Viserys towards a specific conclusion, rather than whatever noble thing you intended to portray.
Here's a less reasonable demand. Drop the nonsense about Rhaenyra having his and their house's best interest in mind and own up to Rhaenyra believing she could come to an arrangement with Corlys which would at least spare Viserys marrying Laena at the age of ten while also giving herself a chance to strengthen her own claim to the throne but she over estimated herself and it all fell apart, but she's sorry and want's to help him make things right if he'll only help her figure out how. That's a write in I could actually stomach.
For now though I'm fine telling him one of his better options for avoiding marrying a child and not asking for anything in return.
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Imperious
Without the sun of my life
This is what your current plan says: "You did all this out of a desire for him to be happy and the house strong" How is trying to get Viserys to accept a marriage he told us he doesn't want in exchange for us getting support for a council seat any of that? Or a balancing of his happiness with the political realities?
Viserys: "I don't want this match, but I see no alternative."
Rhaenyra: "Here's an alternative."
Soulless!
Like, maybe if we were pushing for a deliberately poor match like the Vyprens I could get that, but not wanting to suggest a bad match for Viserys, which he would be likely to decline, is part of why I declined to vote for Vypren to begin with.
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