Remove ads

The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

Reader mode
Newest Tally for the curious before iggyfan vote.
1st Accept as is 16+1 Vote
2nd Zimmerwald Fealty timing only 11 vote
3rd A_Somebody Fealty+Wedding timing 8 vote
Adhoc vote count started by UrbanAvena on Mar 27, 2025 at 5:49 PM, finished with 153 posts and 36 votes.
  • [X] Accept them as is
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Marriage Deadline
    --[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    [X] Reject Them (This Will Have Ramifications)
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[x] Write-in bring up the the potential issue about building a dragon pit for sunspear? Tell the prince that dragons should at least have a place to rest and be alone. That Dragonkeepers would be extremely helpful in the matter in making sure that everything goes more smoothly.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[x] Write-in bring up the the potential issue about building a dragon pit for sunspear? Tell the prince that dragons should at least have a place to rest and be alone. Then ask about the situation in the step stones? What has daemon done now?
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Marriage Deadline
    --[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
Click to expand...
 
[x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
Randino Treviani said:
Solutions should be worked into the negotiation so there on paper rather than something Rhaenyra will have to scheme and dedicate actions towards later. We've been handed a tool to get favorable terms and solutions to problems we have with the situation, and your not bothering to use it because you believe you can do so indirectly later and aren't accounting for competing priorities and trust issues that could potentially arise should we sidestep these negotiations to get our way, to say nothing of action economy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's a weird response to me saying that I don't have reasonable and workable solutions to any issues I might have. Are you saying that I should vote to approach Qoren with unreasonable or unworkable suggestions (from my perspective)?
 
XelianEmperor said:
Why not name the children Nymeros-Martell-Targaryen.

Ala saxe-coburg-gotha
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because that would imply a house fusion which isn't what's happening. Nymerios-Martell is the way it is because Nymeria and her husband basically ruled Dorne as equals and their marriage was very much the start of a cultural fusion between the Rhoynar and the local Andals. That's not happening here.

Also it would make this look like a huge Martell victory and that absolutely would not go over well with most of the realm.
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal
-[x] The heir to Dorne will be raised in Sunspear from the age of five
--[x] being seperated from our child at Five is directly opposed to our wanting greater influence over our children, and our plans of "Dragons ruling Dorne in time." This gives Dorne a dragonrider to mold in their image and should be a red line for the crown.
 
Well, the "Accept them as is" is winning with a clear advantage, but honestly, those are pretty great terms, so I can understand wanting to accept them straight away instead of risking stirring the pot...

But honestly, I would prefer if one of the plans that talk with Qooren wins, they bring up some interesting point, and I would like to see Rhaenyra interacting with his future husband a little more...
Adhoc vote count started by Fanhunter696 on Mar 27, 2025 at 11:00 PM, finished with 165 posts and 41 votes.
  • [X] Accept them as is
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Marriage Deadline
    --[X] (Optional) Argument: 18 months places it at high risk of taking place during winter. This could block significant portions of the kingdoms from being able to visit. 24 months is likely more secure
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    --[X] (Optional) Argument for Stepstones : Their location are strategic importance to open Narrow Sea as connection for Rhaenyra supporter bases of Vale, Crownland, and Dorne.
    -[X] Give Rhaenyra Dornish Squire as soon as treaty formalised
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
    --[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
    [X] Reject Them (This Will Have Ramifications)
    [X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal
    -[x] The heir to Dorne will be raised in Sunspear from the age of five
    --[x] being seperated from our child at Five is directly opposed to our wanting greater influence over our children, and our plans of "Dragons ruling Dorne in time." This gives Dorne a dragonrider to mold in their image and should be a red line for the crown.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[x] Write-in bring up the the potential issue about building a dragon pit for sunspear? Tell the prince that dragons should at least have a place to rest and be alone. That Dragonkeepers would be extremely helpful in the matter in making sure that everything goes more smoothly.
    [x] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
    -[X] Ask what seems to be the issue with Stepstone negotiations
Click to expand...


@Teen Spirit just to be clear if we accept these term as they are are we going to have more Marriage Negotiations interludes/turns to deal with other issues, or since we accepted those terms we finish them here?
 
Last edited:
Agent X20 said:
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal
-[x] The heir to Dorne will be raised in Sunspear from the age of five
--[x] being seperated from our child at Five is directly opposed to our wanting greater influence over our children, and our plans of "Dragons ruling Dorne in time." This gives Dorne a dragonrider to mold in their image and should be a red line for the crown.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's a negotiation. We can't have everything we want. Do remember that even the Major Request of having control over our children's upbringing explicitly excluded Qoren's heir! Having the heir to Dorne raised outside of Dorne would be a monumental ask, Rhaenyra has always understood that and I don't know why we're suddenly doubting the most basic and necessary compromises.

Hell, when Nyra reassured Raylon about the marriage, she straight up said that Qoren's heir will be surrounded by Valyrian tutors, not raised in KL.
 
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] The timing of Dorne's swearing of fealty
--[X] An immediate oath of fealty upon marriage would offer Dorne more protection against Daemon's Bloodstone Kingdom than an alliance. In a fight between an allied Dorne and Bloodstone, the Iron Throne would be forced into an impossible choice between kin, to help one over the other, or to help neither. In a fight between a Dorne sworn to the Iron Throne, and a Bloodstone which is not, the Iron Throne's position would already be decided. Even should Bloodstone itself later swear fealty, the Iron Throne would be obliged to side against the aggressor in the name of the King's or Queen's Peace. Swearing fealty immediately might even deter such a war entirely.
 
A_Somebody said:
Dorne is a desert with a prominent coast and rivers. You'd think they'd have "naval tradition" for the sake of getting around if nothing else! Shit even places where the ground isn't mostly fucking sand heavily used water transport!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hey, you know who also was a prominent, rich desert country with prominent coastline and no naval tradition? Ancient Egypt. Of course, after Alexander you got Alexandria and the Ptolmaic navy, but both the city and the ruling house were heavily Greek. During the native dynasties, during the Old, Middle and New Kingdom, Egypt's armies could, at times, hold sway from Nubia to the Levant... but they barely had any presence in the Mediterranean at all.

In a way, especially because being a desert forces you to be a land power. You can't control vast swaths of worthless land with a navy, and you won't produce enough surplus for naval trade anyway. Even coastal raids are made a non-factor by that. If your coast is just empty desert, what's there to raid?

And Dorne's coast is in fact mostly useless. Most of the coast is the southern coast, and that is all desert with few locations to even so much at take in fresh water, never mind anchoring places, and difficult currents besides. This makes it really difficult to transfer from the continent's western to eastern coast, in fact, and crossing Dorne's southern coast even was a challenge to Victarion's Iron Fleet. There is ocean there, yes, but no harbours or ships or even just fishing. Because the coast is all empty desert. Not unlike, in fact, Egypt's coast west of the Nile delta.

And the western coast is all mountains and easily blockaded by the Reach, of course. Of course, yes, that leaves the eastern coast, where the area is not quite as deserty, where you have access to the busiest ocean of the world (the Narrow Sea), and where the Stepstones are right in front of your face. But I think that may be part of it. Difficult to get much shipping done when you are in pirate waters as soon as you leave your home harbour.

Like, "naval tradition" doesn't just mean navy - it means ships, period. As in, of course, Planky Town and the Shadow Town have harbours where trade ships come by, but it's nothing compared to the Free Cities or King's Landing. Even in just trade or fishing ships Dorne doesn't have much of a tradition, so what would they need warships for?

So yeah, I think Dorne's lack of a naval tradition is adequatly explained by the geographic details we're given.

Like sure the North doesn't have a western fleet but per Canon Asha's pinecone speech at least theres the excuse of there basically being nothing there!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Asha advocated settling there, and that there are enough riches to house the whole Iron Islands population all over again. Meanwhile, "nothing there" is indeed exactly the argument for 3/4 of Dorne's coast. Only the areas around the Arm of Dorne, with locations like Sunspear and the Tor, have anything at all at the coast.


Oh and also:

[X] Accept them as is
 
Last edited:
[X] Speak to Qoren About the Deal (This will involve Hidden Dice Rolls)
-[X] You want a Bedding Ceremony
--[X] It's a merry custom. Every man or woman, knight or lady, king or queen since the beginning of time has done it. There's no reason why we should avoid it.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top