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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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I knew Flute had limited chance, but I should've tried to argue for it. Breath control can be pushed into improving oratory speeches and commanding. Also you can play it one handed, and standing, meaning you could theoretically do swordplay while playing the flute (I'd not expect well) also you could smack someone with a flute. (Goes back to watching Jethro Tull play the flute)

Harp is cool though.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'll be clear. I have no specific reason to expect Harwin to be jealous. But I do think that Teen Spirit isn't going to give us any "clearly best" option. There's going to be a complication with Harwin, and I have a sneaking suspicion that romantic jealousy will play a role. If it's not that, my money's on an extra double scoop helping of "Harrenhall curse."
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I honestly think that Harwin doesn't need any extra complications to not be clearly the best. Because he doesn't bring dragons, a major diplomatic achievement (with its own complications, but still), or a sincere desire and ability to keep Alicent safe as well as the allegiance of an intelligent, scheming Hand. He brings the white elephant that is Harrenhall, as well as unreserved respect and attraction. His father is already helping us anyway.
 
Somic said:
I honestly think that Harwin doesn't need any extra complications to not be clearly the best. Because he doesn't bring dragons, a major diplomatic achievement (with its own complications, but still), or a sincere desire and ability to keep Alicent safe as well as the allegiance of an intelligent, scheming Hand. He brings the white elephant that is Harrenhall, as well as unreserved respect and attraction. His father is already helping us anyway.
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He also brings us the enmity of the person confirmed by the GM to be the greatest spymaster of the age, who wants his brother dead so he can inherit the family castle instead, which would consequently also require him to kill Harwin's children as well, who would otherwise precede him in the line of succession.
 
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Somic said:
I honestly think that Harwin doesn't need any extra complications to not be clearly the best. Because he doesn't bring dragons, a major diplomatic achievement (with its own complications, but still), or a sincere desire and ability to keep Alicent safe as well as the allegiance of an intelligent, scheming Hand. He brings the white elephant that is Harrenhall, as well as unreserved respect and attraction. His father is already helping us anyway.
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Also, he will almost surely puts us on the sight of everyone's favourite crippled kinslayer, Lame Larry.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'll be clear. I have no specific reason to expect Harwin to be jealous. But I do think that Teen Spirit isn't going to give us any "clearly best" option. There's going to be a complication with Harwin, and I have a sneaking suspicion that romantic jealousy will play a role. If it's not that, my money's on an extra double scoop helping of "Harrenhall curse."
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I mean, having Larys as a brother in law is a pretty strong downside already.
 
I mean, the calculus seems pretty easy for me right now. We don't know, no, but we can make assumptions. We may have to correct them later, but so it goes with assumptions. Still better than to go in blind.

And in canon, Harwin was Rhaenyra's lover, drawn by her rather than the crown. He is seeking love and emotional intimacy. So it is not too farfetched to assume he would be jealous of the one who has our love and emotional intimacy. This is different to most other candidates (even Qoren, though he is on the love interest list) for which this all is a political arrangement.
 
Harwin was a very different Rhaenyra's lover. The realms delight rather than Visenya come again. I'm not quite convinced he'd even want Rhaenyra as she is. Whatever the case, I do believe he, and the Strongs, besides Larys, are Loyal already and we are far more able to entice them to remain so with means besides marriage in comparison to the Hightowers, Otto in particular.
 
[X] [Music] Harp

[X] [Alicent] Tell Her of your Desires, How You Nearly Swept Her off Her Feet the Day of the Tourney
 
Randino Treviani said:
Harwin was a very different Rhaenyra's lover. The realms delight rather than Visenya come again. I'm not quite convinced he'd even want Rhaenyra as she is. Whatever the case, I do believe he, and the Strongs, besides Larys, are Loyal already and we are far more able to entice them to remain so with means besides marriage in comparison to the Hightowers, Otto in particular.
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He is on the romance list, was genuinely enthusiastic to fight Rhaenyra, AND expressed interest in a marriage with her to Viserys. Specifically, it was brought up when Viserys talked about how Rhaenyra's boldness scared off some suitors, but encouraged others, such as Harwin and Qoren. And Rhaenyra herself has fantasized about a romance with a fellow brave knight, going on adventures and fighting bandits and whatnot, so it seems clearly telegraphed to me that Harwinyra is a perfectly viable pairing. At least, absent exclusive loyalty to another romantic partner.
 
Teen Spirit said:
Yes but this would require A: Recuriting Larys Clubfoot as an Ally (And again, Larys is not the kind of man who's particularly interested in allying with Rhaenyra) B: Convicing him to train someone competently and C: be able to trust that person afterwards.
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To be clear I was just having a bit about how for all that Larys is well known for his various enormities, one thing that often goes unremarked is how he appears to actually be a really good mentor to the point that in a game like this I'd imagine he even has a trait for it, hence the comparison to a Sith Lord, what with how Larys ends up murdering his own apprentice at the end. In CK2 Larys would probably be that one guy with the Elusive Shadow trait that you kept sending to ward with all the kids you thought had the potential to be trained to be your future Spymaster.

Mystic Pentagram said:
I would vote for Harwin just to see if their children will come out Built Different even more than their parents.
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Assuming our kids live long enough to tell before Larys has them killed for being ahead of him in the line of succession to Harrenhal. Any legitimate child we would have with Harwin would stand to inherit Harrenhal before Larys.
 
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Imperious said:
Assuming our kids live long enough to tell before Larys has them killed for being ahead of him in the line of succession to Harrenhal. Any legitimate child we would have with Harwin would stand to inherit Harrenhal before Larys.
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Hmmmmm. Actually, could we make one of the conditions of marrying us that all our children bear the Targaryen name, are thus allowed to ride a dragon, and go to the bottom of any other succession line rather than the top to avoid giving another family a dragon? Thus we would remove some competition for Larys rather than adding to it.

I mean, it's not like I actually want him on our side, my preference for marriage is either Gwayne or Qoren anyway, but that might work to make the Harwin option less dangerous? Maybe?

Actually, @Teen Spirit would such a requirement, or a similar one, be viable for our marriage negotiations? (Obviously must be compromised for Qoren, probably much easier to get through for Gwayne, and would be an exhausting fight regardless with Laenor's family, the way I see it...)
 
Somic said:
Hmmmmm. Actually, could we make one of the conditions of marrying us that all our children bear the Targaryen name, are thus allowed to ride a dragon, and go to the bottom of any other succession line rather than the top to avoid giving another family a dragon? Thus we would remove some competition for Larys rather than adding to it.

I mean, it's not like I actually want him on our side, my preference for marriage is either Gwayne or Qoren anyway, but that might work to make the Harwin option less dangerous? Maybe?

Actually, @Teen Spirit would such a requirement, or a similar one, be viable for our marriage negotiations? (Obviously must be compromised for Qoren, probably much easier to get through for Gwayne, and would be an exhausting fight regardless with Laenor's family, the way I see it...)
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Even under such an arrangement, if it is even possible, we would still need to deal with Larys plotting the murder of our husband though. Sounds like it would lead him to the arms of whoever is our opponent.
 
Somic said:
Hmmmmm. Actually, could we make one of the conditions of marrying us that all our children bear the Targaryen name, are thus allowed to ride a dragon, and go to the bottom of any other succession line rather than the top to avoid giving another family a dragon? Thus we would remove some competition for Larys rather than adding to it.

I mean, it's not like I actually want him on our side, my preference for marriage is either Gwayne or Qoren anyway, but that might work to make the Harwin option less dangerous? Maybe?

Actually, @Teen Spirit would such a requirement, or a similar one, be viable for our marriage negotiations? (Obviously must be compromised for Qoren, probably much easier to get through for Gwayne, and would be an exhausting fight regardless with Laenor's family, the way I see it...)
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One part of the deal with Dorne that eventually lead to it unifying with the Iron Throne was that Daeron II's future wife removing herself from the line of succession in Dorne and let her younger brother Suceed her.

I will say that's an option in negotations, but it would be a rather hard sell for most if Rhaenyra's husband stands to inherit anything. Say with Harwin, you're effectively asking Lyonel Strong to more or less put aside his heir and create instability in his house, not to mention leaving things open for a targaryen a generation from now to just claim their lands and rule under a Dragon Banner. A much more acceptable compromise with Harwin would be "Eldest takes the Targaryen name, the rest take Strong name and don't get dragons unless the eldest dies." But denying dragons to all but the eldest leads to some problems on it's own.
 
Mystic Pentagram said:
Be thankful we haven't been introduced to dark magic
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Harrenhall: "Am I a pile of rocks to you? :("
Teen Spirit said:
I will say that's an option in negotations, but it would be a rather hard sell for most if Rhaenyra's husband stands to inherit anything.
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So an easier sell with Gwayne, I take it. To be quite honest, if we marry him I want both him and all our children to take the Targaryen name, and for Alicent to be allowed to marry whoever she wishes or not marry at all. That would un-Hightower literally the entirety of Otto's branch, but since his grandchildren don't stand to inherit anything through him, but would stand to gain an enormous amount of power through us (even non-heir Targaryens get to ride dragons, which is huge), I think he might be okay with it...
(another thing I want is support for our firstborn as next in line after us regardless of gender, but that's both some way into the future, and a significant ask all on its own, probably)
 
Teen Spirit said:
A much more acceptable compromise with Harwin would be "Eldest takes the Targaryen name, the rest take Strong name and don't get dragons unless the eldest dies." But denying dragons to all but the eldest leads to some problems on it's own.
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Laenor bros stay winning. A Targaryen/Velyaron match doesn't entirely dodge the issue with Driftmark, but it does dodge the Dragon question. Because of course all 1 heir one spare of our kids with Laenor get dragons, one gets the IT the other Driftmark and for maximum kicking the can down the road we have opposite sex kids marry them.

We just need to find a Turkey baster first
 
We need to hit up Visenya magical collection and unlock some Valyrian dark magic.
 
TheBarrometer said:
Laenor bros stay winning. A Targaryen/Velyaron match doesn't entirely dodge the issue with Driftmark, but it does dodge the Dragon question. Because of course all 1 heir one spare of our kids with Laenor get dragons, one gets the IT the other Driftmark and for maximum kicking the can down the road we have opposite sex kids marry them.

We just need to find a Turkey baster first
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Tbh, the name question would exactly be a an argument for Gwayne for me (or a Dornish solution like later in canon). The dragons are still a weighty argument - but we are a dragon, and so should be our children. Not a fucking seahorse. Targaryen, not Velaryon.

We are a noble in a society of nobles and houses. Those things matter.

(I suppose we could do the reverse of the canon agreement - Targaryen name as default and only the one who inherits Driftmark becomes a Velaryon. Corlys would almost certainly balk at that, though)

Somic said:
So an esier sell with Gwayne, I take it.
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To be quite honest, with Gwayne, the son of a second son of a non-paramount lord, I would have simply *expected* that. Not even something to negotiate, but something that is just... understood.
 
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Yeah I've become pretty convinced of getting off the Harwin train. Even without the potential issues with Alicent he brings a pretty meh demesne and makes us and our children the enemies of a very capable spymaster. If we really want a Riverlands husbando I would rather look to either Elmo Tully or Forrest Frey. Tully if we don't want a romantic relationship and Frey if we do, and that's only if we're really set on our husbando being from the Riverlands, or having children with muppet names, the latter of which I definitely am.
 
Susano said:
Ah, a Crusader Kings player I take it.
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It's a funny coincidence that in my last playthrough during the Dance of the Dragons in CK3 AGOT, I watched as Rhaenyra married Larys, who then inherited Harrenhal after his brother's "mysterious" death. They later divorced, but it was their son who eventually inherited the Iron Throne. He also inherited Harrenhal, which he then promptly gave to another dynasty. Considering the guy was a genius, I think he was onto something.
 
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