That Time I Became A Dictator Of A Small Asian Communist Nation

[Anon500]

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...... Well, reading into it... FUCK!

SO, Hua Guofeng takes power days after Mao dies and removes the gang of four...

Hua Guofeng - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now, he needs to unite the party.... and what better way than uniting against an outside force.

Please don't tell me he tries to escalate just so that he is able to make sure everyone coalesces behind him. I could totally see a first action of any reign being to confront ideological opponents in a diplomatic incident, and make sure everyone knows they must align behind him (or be capitalist traitors).

We probably don't want a Dengist victory, honestly. Not sure what else instead to back, but we're not going to be able to decide who wins, obviously. That's down to luck and nonsense.

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I agree, let's observe but not interfere. I am more asking to get a sense of what others might do to CHina, and what China might do on its own.

I don't remember reading that America actually knows mao is dead yet. Just that there is internal strive

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They don't, and that is not what I was saying. My worries are about what the US might try to do once they know Mao is gone. If they believe that China wouldn't react, they might think they have far more latitude in what actions they could take with us. I personally am rooting for any plan that quicky tries to resolve this incident.

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So, I'm not sure Hu is in a position yet to take power. It sounds like he was an associate of Deng, so that is more of a package deal where you get both.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

So, I'm not sure Hu is in a position yet to take power. It sounds like he was an associate of Deng, so that is more of a package deal where you get both.

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I Just don't want the "The Day where Nothing Happened but People Died" to end with the CCP still in power.

I mean why would I? The CCP killed more people in a handful of years then Stalin and Hitler.

Of course I don't like them.

And never will.

I could totally see a first action of any reign being to confront ideological opponents in a diplomatic incident, and make sure everyone knows they must align behind him (or be capitalist traitors).

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Bye Bye world nice knowing you.

Oh god its possible Breshznev is the only sane man in this situation DEAR GOD!

I personally am rooting for any plan that quicky tries to resolve this incident.

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"We have to get Rid of these Americans and their Trash...PEACEFULLY!"

So, I'm not sure Hu is in a position yet to take power. It sounds like he was an associate of Deng, so that is more of a package deal where you get both.

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Ahh the Classic Case of Allies to enemies then.

 

[CyberFemme]

The current speech just feels over-the-top meme-y.
[X] ... And One Movie Studio!
-[X] State that in the interest of avoiding Nuclear Armageddon, Gunagchou is willing to allow the Americans to retrieve or destroy any sensitive information or technology currently aboard the Iwo Jima, as well as evacuate it's sailors, so long as the personnel dispatched to do so are unarmed and do not act to cause further harm to Guangchou.
-[X] Gunagchou is willing to let the Americans decide if they want to re-float the carrier or just decommission it in place, however they will have to do so with civilian workers and they will need to reimburse Gunagchou for the temporary loss of fertile soil as well as for any soil remediation that needs to be done afterwards (because their carrier is leaking engine oil and avgas into land needed to feed the country's population) in addition to the initial hazardous littering fine.
-[X] Recognizing the suddenness of this crisis and the sizable outlays required to remedy the damages done, Gunagchou is willing to allow the US to pay the fines and any addition costs incurred in kind: Up to one third of the total value of the monetary outlay may be paid in food shipments, and another third in industrial goods, calculated at international market price.
-[X] To fuck with them a bit and give ourselves a lead, include that that can include one Hollywood studio's worth of equipment and technical experts to jumpstart the domestic entertainment industry (ie: the physical infrastructure like cameras, lighting, etc. as well as teaching our people about practical effects, cinematography, etc.)
-[X] To ensure all sides respect the terms of this agreement, Gunagchou is willing to create a Special Diplomatic Zone centred on the Iwo Jima where international observers and press from a neutral country (or one part of the Non-Aligned Movement) may come to oversee and see that we are not treating the Americans as prisoners, and nor are we taking anything from the ship. They will be allowed to operate in this zone (once again, so long as they are unarmed and not engaged in activities threatening the safety of the nation) in order to ease tensions while minimizing the impingement on Gunagchou's sovereignty.
-[X] Talk to our allies to get them on the same page as us.
-[X] Sit back and watch.

Basically, I'm wondering if we can get the US to give our agricultural and industrial efforts a boost so we can meet plan targets ahead of schedule.

 

[The Laurent]

The current speech just feels over-the-top meme-y.

[] State that in the interest of avoiding Nuclear Armageddon, Gunagchou is willing to allow the Americans to retrieve or destroy any sensitive information or technology currently aboard the Iwo Jima, as well as evacuate it's sailors, so long as the personnel dispatched to do so are unarmed and do not act to cause further harm to Guangchou.
[] Gunagchou is willing to let the Americans decide if they want to re-float the carrier or just decommission it in place, however they will have to do so with civilian workers and they will need to reimburse Gunagchou for the temporary loss of fertile soil as well as for any soil remediation that needs to be done afterwards (because their carrier is leaking engine oil and avgas into land needed to feed the country's population) in addition to the initial hazardous littering fine.
[] Recognizing the suddenness of this crisis and the sizable outlays required to remedy the damages done, Gunagchou is willing to allow the US to pay the fines and any addition costs incurred in kind: Up to one third of the total value of the monetary outlay may be paid in food shipments, and another third in industrial goods, calculated at international market price.
[] To ensure all sides respect the terms of this agreement, Gunagchou is willing to create a Special Diplomatic Zone centred on the Iwo Jima where international observers and press from a neutral country (or one part of the Non-Aligned Movement) may come to oversee and see that we are not treating the Americans as prisoners, and nor are we taking anything from the ship. They will be allowed to operate in this zone (once again, so long as they are unarmed and not engaged in activities threatening the safety of the nation) in order to ease tensions while minimizing the impingement on Gunagchou's sovereignty.
[] Talk to our allies to get them on the same page as us.
[] Sit back and watch.

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Fair enough... I'm just amused at the idea of making the CIA paranoid that we have someone on the inside reading their minds or America worrying about a bunch of superweapons that don't exist. It's like that time the Soviet Union "let leak" that they were doing extensive programs to study Psychic Warfare and the CIA bought it and wasted millions on it.

 

[CyberFemme]

Fair enough... I'm just amused at the idea of making the CIA paranoid that we have someone on the inside reading their minds or America worrying about a bunch of superweapons that don't exist. It's like that time the Soviet Union "let leak" that they were doing extensive programs to study Psychic Warfare and the CIA bought it and wasted millions on it.

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I don't think we know in character how paranoid the CIA is through - the thing about having a electronics-frying super-weapon isn't public IIRC?

 

[The Laurent]

I don't think we know in character how paranoid the CIA is through - the thing about having a electronics-frying super-weapon isn't public IIRC?

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I guess, but it is in a list of equally implausible sci-fi nonsense. I mean, I guess fair enough... and I think your plan will work, but it is kinda something of a squib?

Or, I dunno. It feels like we enter the world stage, mumble a bunch of conventional diplomatic rhetoric, and awkwardly shuffle off to the side.

 

[CyberFemme]

I guess, but it is in a list of equally implausible sci-fi nonsense. I mean, I guess fair enough... and I think your plan will work, but it is kinda something of a squib?

Or, I dunno. It feels like we enter the world stage, mumble a bunch of conventional diplomatic rhetoric, and awkwardly shuffle off to the side.

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I'm open to suggestions for Wacky Demands we can throw in there to maintain our cachet as memetic North Korea.

We could ask for... One Hollywood studio's worth of equipment and technical experts to jumpstart the domestic entertainment industry? That's pretty left field (heh) and helps us with propaganda later on.

 

[Ultrackius]

I hope China stays with Maoism instead of falling to Dengite revisionism like OTL, ah well, not much we can do about it

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Dengite revisionism

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...Revisionism is an eventuality...inevitable really. In any revolution,

 

[The Laurent]

Eh, hard disagree. Though I also see little in Maoism specifically to cherish or value.

 

[Ultrackius]

Eh, hard disagree. Though I also see little in Maoism specifically to cherish or value.

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I've always been a big fan of cultural revolution personally

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Eh, hard disagree. Though I also see little in Maoism specifically to cherish or value.

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Yes...Mao's ideals killed millions and caused more trouble then they are worth.

I don't like Deng, but he sure as hell was an improvement over Mao.

Not by much.

I've always been a big fan of cultural revolution personally

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But why though? The Cultural Revolution Killed a lot of people and caused...well I'm beating that dead horse Famine and economic slowdown.

 

[Ultrackius]

Yes...Mao's ideals killed millions and caused more trouble then they are worth.

I don't like Deng, but he sure as hell was an improvement over Mao.

Not by much.



But why though? The Cultural Revolution Killed a lot of people and caused...well I'm beating that dead horse Famine and economic slowdown.

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Mao is a hero, and one of the greatest revolutionaries of the 20th century

I mean of course the historical one had excesses to be denounced, but the idea is sound, and vitally necessary in much of the west

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Mao is a hero, and one of the greatest revolutionaries of the 20th century

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He's also one of the biggest butchers of the century. And a Man I will never admire for what he did to the chinise people.

but the idea is sound, and vitally necessary in much of the west

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I'd rather not die in a famine caused by state-controlled tyranny people were suckered (yes you won the civil war and Chiang was bad, but they were no better) into supporting.

Yes...I'm sure killing all the birds in the nation will help the farmers Mao...

The Four Pest Campaign's led to the Great Chinise Famine of 1959-1961 and caused according to Utsa Patnaik,a respected Indian Marxest, who I have actually read a little bit on for the sake of the quest.

Caused the death of 11 million people!

Why should I respect or want the ideals of Mao and his party on my society.

America deserves better than whatever the CCP and Most Left-Wing ideologies of the last century are peddling

PS: The ROC is Real China

And Georgeism is one of the keys the Future.

Spoiler: FOR THE KAUMONTANG!

I'm sorry if I chose to no enjoy what you think you want for the future of America out of quest.

But I can assure you...we'll be better without it.

I look to Modern Taiwan...

Edit: You have your opinion and I shall respect that.

However I shall defend mine till the bitter end with what Truth that hasn't been tainted by the Lies of the CCP.

 

[CyberFemme]

He's also one of the biggest butchers of the century. And a Man I will never admire for what he did to the chinise people.

I'd rather not die in a famine caused by state-controlled tyranny people were suckered into supporting.

Yes...I'm sure killing all the birds in the nation will help the farmers Mao...

The Four Pest Campaign's led to the Great Chinise Famine of 1959-1961 and caused according to Utsa Patnaik,a respected Indian Marxest, who I have actually read a little bit on for the sake of the quest.

Caused the death of 11 million people!

Why should I respect or want the ideals of Mao and his party on my society.

America deserves better than whatever the CCP and Most Left-Wing ideologies of the last century are peddling

PS: The ROC is Real China

And Georgeism is one of the keys the Future.

Spoiler: FOR THE KAUMONTANG!

I'm sorry if I chose to no enjoy what you think you want for the future of America out of quest.

But I can assure you...we'll be better without it.

I look to Modern Taiwan...

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It's not the first time Ultrakius has come into a leftist Quest with shit takes, unless you're willing to put in the energy to argue it's not worth engaging.

Edit: Mind you, 'Most Left-Wing ideologies' is doing a lot of lifting there. If you think implementation is the issue that's one thing, but if you think left wing politics isn't better than capitalism then I've got some swamp land to sell you.

 

[The Laurent]

That said, Georgism is deeply overrated and the KMT was pretty terrible. There's a reason the peasants were willing to turn against them for the CCP, even though Mao obviously fucked shit up.

The KMT was beholden to rich and powerful landlords and abused peasants and workers, especially after the early years in the 1920s. They lost for this reason and then fled to an island where they *also* made, or rather continued, a dictatorship.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

It's not the first time Ultrakius has come into a leftist Quest with shit takes, unless you're willing to put in the energy to argue it's not worth engaging.

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Thank you for the warning.

I'm sorry for making a scene.

Leaving my post because that would be the sort of leaflet they'd find.

That said, Georgism is deeply overrated and the KMT was pretty terrible. There's a reason the peasants were willing to turn against them for the CCP, even though Mao obviously fucked shit up.

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Overrated it may be...I still want to belive in it with the same vigor as people who read other ideals,

 

[Magoose]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

Why should we not try to angle ourselves as brilliant political operators trying to play all sides while profiting?

Yes being best Korea is fun. but why can we not just try to... you know... Be brillient

 

[Anon500]

I'm open to suggestions for Wacky Demands we can throw in there to maintain our cachet as memetic North Korea.

We could ask for... One Hollywood studio's worth of equipment and technical experts to jumpstart the domestic entertainment industry? That's pretty left field (heh) and helps us with propaganda later on.

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So, be warned this is just a raw brainstorm. I'm more going for a funny demand than perhaps something we could actually accomplish

- Help us start a space program. We want to take communism to the final frontier (And we totally aren't trying to make ICBM's... What do you mean, there is no way in hell you will ever send us NASA engineers to us?)
- ALL THE ANIME! We Demand you send us a couple of animation studios from Japan (Why are you calling us Weebs? What do you mean that we could never outdo you at being hikikomori's? We just want all the Astroboy... and all the other Tezuka works... I mean, we'll take the man himself too)
- Gives us the clearance to use wave power locally. The entire South China Sea shall be filled with power generators! The Sea Shall Power The New Age Of Communism! (What do you mean, you don't know anything about that? You just made a design this year. Yes, we are also demanding the patent so that no one can steal the design that rightfully belongs to Guanchou! What do you mean that isn't how patents or ideas work? What do you mean that we can't just have the entire South China Sea for power? What do you mean it will ruin international trade?)
- Ask them to help set up medical education center (We always need more doctors. Well, if you won't send us some, then we'll just ask Cuba. Oh, you didn't realize they were sending a representative as part of the non-aligned movement?)

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

Why should we not try to angle ourselves as brilliant political operators trying to play all sides while profiting?

Yes being best Korea is fun. but why can we not just try to... you know... Be brillient

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So, I want to do this a little bit, but I think we should prioritize quickly resolving things rather than getting the most benefit. The whole China situation has me scared. That being said, there have been good arguments made about why the US might not behave as aggressively as I fear (because they are too busy jumping at shadows). The recent update also suggests that everyone but us is basically working at a major information disadvantage.

edit: Does anyone have any realistic ideas about how we could try and hoodwink the US while still not escalating the situation. The only proposals have been either ridiculous demands, or the implication of secret weapons which would definitely escalate the situation and something I am not in favor of. Is there anything else we could try?

 

[7th Hex]

Why should we not try to angle ourselves as brilliant political operators trying to play all sides while profiting?

Yes being best Korea is fun. but why can we not just try to... you know... Be brillient

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Because playing China for our profit is likely to tick them off something fierce, and with the political turmoil after Mao's death the last thing we want is to look like a convient uppity vassal outside target that someone can use to help consolidate power.

edit: Does anyone have any realistic ideas about how we could try and hoodwink the US while still not escalating the situation. The only proposal has been ridiculous demands, or the implication of secret weapons which would definitely escalate the situation and something I am not in favor of. Is there anything else we could try?

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I'm not sure if hoodwinking the US is even necessary actually, beyond just hiding the Iron Tigers saying the truth that we didn't cause the Tsunami. The first is just a matter of bundling them away and not talking about them. The second we can just point out the damage the tsunami has done to our farms, and how as a good communist nation that cares for our people dealing such damage to our shaky food supply would not be worth grabbing an obselete carrier.

Our whole story is that we are repeatedly screaming: "Everything is fine, don't look too close, there is no western invasion, only a bit of illegal waste dumping" and hoping that everybody else fears MAD enough to play along. Not much I see that needs hoodwinking here.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

If you think implementation is the issue that's one thing, but if you think left wing politics isn't better than capitalism then I've got some swamp land to sell you.

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I'm just being cynical and don't like a lot of what both sides are selling because I'm distrustful of politicians on all sides in general.

These are still political animals, selling ideas that will get them elected, and not actually doing anything about the problems in their nations or policy. Even if they want to genuinely change things...at the end of the day, they went into politics and are changed by them.

They only care about Power and the longevity of their power and influence over their nation.

You see it in America and by god, you'll see it in every other nation on earth goes double for places with authoritarian regimes like China and Russia.

- Ask them to help set up medical education center (We always need more doctors. Well, if you won't send us some, then we'll just ask Cuba. Oh, you didn't realize they were sending a representative as part of the non-aligned movement?)

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YES!! More Doctor's you can never go wrong with that.

 

[Dain24601]

edit: Does anyone have any realistic ideas about how we could try and hoodwink the US while still not escalating the situation. The only proposal has been ridiculous demands, or the implication of secret weapons which would definitely escalate the situation and something I am not in favor of. Is there anything else we could try?

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In regards to the rumors? Take the most ridiculous and debunk them. "No we have no doomsday weapons and if we did we wouldn't be wasting it on that hub of junk you call military hardware". Otherwise be upfront on what were getting out of all this. Outright admit were shaking them down for funds and possibly more for our own gain. Give them a reason for our actions before their paranoia does it for them.

 

[CyberFemme]

I'm just being cynical and don't like a lot of what both sides are selling because I'm distrustful of politicians on all sides in general.

These are still political animals, selling ideas that will get them elected, and not actually doing anything about the problems in their nations or policy. Even if they want to genuinely change things...at the end of the day, they went into politics and are changed by them.

They only care about Power and the longevity of their power and influence over their nation.

You see it in America and by god, you'll see it in every other nation on earth goes double for places with authoritarian regimes like China and Russia.

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Pretty sure politicians actually do try to fulfill their promises (this is a leftist quest thread, who's got that study handy?), but the system works to prevent them from ever achieving anything but the most milquetoast reforms. There's a reason most leftists see electoral politics as the graveyard of dreams and organization work these days seems to be pointing more at direct action as a more effective use of resources.

Like, the problems you're describing are very much a result of the social, economic, and political conditions faced today and not some sort of universal truth that will always hold up even in the face of concentrated efforts to dismantle their underlying causes. Don't confuse something being difficult for it being impossible.

 

[Cyberphilosipher]

Pretty sure politicians actually do try to fulfill their promises

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I have no doubt that they do but my Political coming of age happened at probably one of the most diversive times in History...

And then we had to go in lockdown for nearly 2 years and I spent most of that time reading history and politics.

And then I realized most of all that I'm a Centrist and don't believe in anything you all believe in because...it didn't click. And then I realized the worse truth of all, I was an intelligent voter and wanted to be smart with my one vote.

Don't confuse something being difficult for it being impossible.

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Oh things will get better eventually...but I don't like what we're going to have to go through to get there.

I've already had to have buyer's remorse about elections once...and Modern Revolution is a fools game anyway that only brings more misery and strife and death and I say that as a guy who hopes for change peacefully.

Violent revolution in my mind is distasteful, crude and a symbol of unwillingness to understand one another.

 

[We Just Write]

T: Truth be told, we view electoral politics mostly as a means to:
1: Keep blatant bad actors VERY far away from the levers of power, thus acting as a backstop against things getting even worse.
2: Ensure that material conditions render meaningful direct action possible without needing to resort to insurgency or similar.