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So this is something that stood out to me.

Honestly, I'm left wondering what kind of impact this will have. I mean as @Simon_Jester pointed out the US is already in pretty bd shape politically. So what happens when industrial accidents start happening. I dont mean the small incidents like a guy getting sucked into a piece of machinery, I mean more akin to the disasters like what we've been seeing happen IRL recently. What happens when a chemical plant blows up because someone hadn't been maintaining the safety measures due to time/financial constraints? Or if a city got accidentally demolished due to improperly stored chemicals like in Lebanon a few years ago.
Well, historically events like that usually, in practice get even pro-corporate governments to go "wait, shit" and start tightening things up. Among other things because a disaster like that tends to cause vast damage to the property of other corporations, who have their own influence over the government.

But more broadly, what it comes down to is that if the CIA wants to try and effectively instate "managed democracy," they're going to face an uphill battle. Because even a lot of the fanatically anti-communist and reactionary assets that would be available in the US circa 1980 are just... poorly aligned, poorly positioned, poorly prepared, psychologically unready, or multiple of the above... for the task of making that happen. And there's a lot of institutional power that will be resisting, and "just haha kill them all" isn't a realistic response to that reality for all the same reasons that fantasy conspiracies of black helicopter plots to take over America are absurdly unrealistic.
 
Some things I would like to add are that TTL US is somewhat more to the right on the whole than OTL. The Hayes Codes is an official guideline/enforced set of rules for movie makers, cornerstone legislations didn't happen like Roe V. Wade, the Stonewall Riot turned deadly with a dozen dead, the Iwo Jima Incident/Shaming shook things up a bit, and the reveal of the Homo Lupi lit a fire under the asses of every major and minor cult in the Americas that is even a bit...uh...evil? Culty? The ones that tell parents to kick out/beat their children if they are non-straight/cis. You know the ones, probably.

Also, the CIA ain't doin' shit but huffin' Copium and plotting assassinations in Africa.
 
Some things I would like to add are that TTL US is somewhat more to the right on the whole than OTL. The Hayes Codes is an official guideline/enforced set of rules for movie makers, cornerstone legislations didn't happen like Roe V. Wade, the Stonewall Riot turned deadly with a dozen dead, the Iwo Jima Incident/Shaming shook things up a bit, and the reveal of the Homo Lupi lit a fire under the asses of every major and minor cult in the Americas that is even a bit...uh...evil? Culty? The ones that tell parents to kick out/beat their children if they are non-straight/cis. You know the ones, probably.
I mean, if you change things up sufficiently beyond recognition you can alter pretty much anything, sure. I could peck away at things in the alternate US timeline but I'm not really planning to dig into that right now and ask questions.

But to a large extent this is about stuff that doesn't fit neatly on a "left/right" axis as we retroactively imagine politics being since we live in the age of the Tea Party and Donald Trump. It's not just about "do you want the fascists or the socialists to succeed" or "are you a gay-basher or not" or anything like that. It's about what structures exist within society, what groups have power, and how any significant change to the structures will cause groups that have power to lose power.

The US, going into the 1980 election, seems to have been a polity with a two party system that was "working" in that the idea of peaceful transfers of power between the two parties remained realistic and normative. It had seemed true that power in Congress, at the state level, and in the judiciary, was widely divided among a variety of blocs, and these are mostly no

Even if both parties are quicker to form a consensus in support of gay-bashing, and if the Hays Code is wildly more successful than it was in real life (where it was gasping its dying breaths by 1960 after a long era of having less-than-total power over Hollywood, and expired in 1968), all the state political machinery that delivered electoral votes to Jimmy Carter isn't going to just shrivel up and blow away overnight. Those guys may be a lot more socially conservative than in our timeline (e.g. apparently the Warren Court never happened and/or the Burger Court was far more conservative). But they do have power and aren't going to want to give up the hope of having it in the future. And to a large extent the laws that existed are on their side, which gives them entrenchment.

In short, what I've been saying is that for the US to turn into a single-party state at this juncture represents a major self-coup by part of the establishment against the rest of the establishment, not just a straightforward minor extension of existing mechanisms of oppression.

Also, the CIA ain't doin' shit but huffin' Copium and plotting assassinations in Africa.
Okay fine, but whoever's running all the conspiratorial shit has essentially the same problem, is what I'm getting at.
 
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Does there need to be a "shadow government" to explain what is happening in America? I believe that the only element that isn't a logical intensification of existing systems of oppression was the assassination of the President. This assassination and the subsequent framing of a black "communist" could easily have been managed by a small group of high-ranking officials. There is no need to assume that this group has an extreme level of power or is planning on initiating a coup. A demonstrated ability to manage an assassination and mislead an investigation does not mean that they must have the ability to totally overthrow the existing systems of power.
 
Oh, I didn't mean it as me saying that TTL US' is totally different, merely a bit mofe information about the recent and recent-ish changes that are happening. Reagan being in charge is very much a "suffering from success and screaming due to that" scenario. The US is only at, if I had to quantify such a thing, Unrest Level 3-4 out of 10. A civil war happening within the decade is not possible, even if you poke the scavenger eagle throughout.

Ps.: Your information and explanations are also very helpful for my notes and outlines on how the US would/will act. So thanks for that!
 
Oh, I didn't mean it as me saying that TTL US' is totally different, merely a bit mofe information about the recent and recent-ish changes that are happening. Reagan being in charge is very much a "suffering from success and screaming due to that" scenario. The US is only at, if I had to quantify such a thing, Unrest Level 3-4 out of 10. A civil war happening within the decade is not possible, even if you poke the scavenger eagle throughout.

Ps.: Your information and explanations are also very helpful for my notes and outlines on how the US would/will act. So thanks for that!
I'd be delighted to bat stuff back and forth with you in PMs for rapid-fire-ness and ability to walk hypotheses forward and back, if it would help.

For example, the Hays Code sounds great as a symbol of oppressive fifties homogenization controlling the film industry, but then you zoom in and it was basically a dead letter by 1960 and even before that there were people pushing back against it because a lot of its restrictions were just fucking laughable even in the early 1930s when it was first pushed on the film industry by the MPAA or its predecessor (I forget which/what).
 
@Simon_Jester I suppose that by "maneged democracy" you mean an american brand of fascism? If so, (from what you have said) we can safely assume that the fascist takeover of the USA is going to be difficult.

Fascist regimes tend to require the colaboration of pre-existing institutions for their "revolutions". They generally present a dichotomy between how the system should work and how the system is actually working then proceed to argue that the system isn't working as it should because it is morally corrupt. Basically, the government is bad because bad people run it.

The practical aspect of all that rethoric is that they actually don't want to change the system, instead, they want to purge it of what they consider morally corrupting influence. For there to be a succesful purge of dissidents in all branches of the state there must be colaborators on all the branches of the state willing to enable said purge.

The difficulty (for the fascists) is that the USA has a long standing republican tradition (Andrew Jackson is the one wierd US president that told the Supreme Court to f*ck off instead of being the rule). There's an institutional inertia on not allowing concentration of power (though this is a very general statement that is likely to have a lot of exceptions).

The most likely explanation is that the US's current situation is not a direct effect of the Reagan administration (yet).

The US interludes don't really focus on this or that law being passed (it doesn't focus on government action), instead, they focus on common people practicing common villainy, the fact that they are allowed to act in such ways could simply be a side-effect of negligence.

Right now, the Gamer Republicans have been in charge for a single year (Reagan got into power in 1980 and it is 1981). It usually takes months for a new government to be fully functioning and dear Reagan is likely to try and go full on purge meaning that his government's effectiveness is not about to improve, rather, it is about to decrease (that's what generally happens when you substitute professionals with cronies).

We are likely observing the deterioration of the status quo instead of a change in the status quo (and it is not likely to get better any time soon).​
 
The difficulty (for the fascists) is that the USA has a long standing republican tradition (Andrew Jackson is the one wierd US president that told the Supreme Court to f*ck off instead of being the rule).
Even that... um. One could argue that that was sort of... not outside the republican tradition, with the caveat that "popular with the voters" is very very fucking much not the same thing as GOOD and so a morally horrific and objectively evil act may nevertheless be upheld by popular vote at the expense of an institution with less connection to said popular vote.

The analysis on the case of the Trail of Tears gets complex because it engages with a lot of questions of how the American republic saw itself, the Cherokee, the separation of powers, state and federal powers as well as federal branch powers, Americans' rights, and the Cherokee's rights at the time, and that time is quite far removed from our own in ways that have a lot of consequences.

And again to be clear, this is me talking about how the legalistic and constitutional aspects are contextualized. Not me trying to in any way shape or form for even the slightest instant imply that what was done to the Cherokee and other Native American tribes was justified, good, right, okay, or whatever. Because I'm pretty sure I need that disclaimer to avoid someone getting trigger-happy.
 
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Even that... um. One could argue that that was sort of... not outside the republican tradition, with the caveat that "popular with the voters" is very very fucking much not the same thing as GOOD and so a morally horrific and objectively evil act may nevertheless be upheld by popular vote at the expense of an institution with less connection to said popular vote.

The analysis on the case of the Trail of Tears gets complex because it engages with a lot of questions of how the American republic saw itself, the Cherokee, the separation of powers, state and federal powers as well as federal branch powers, Americans' rights, and the Cherokee's rights at the time, and that time is quite far removed from our own in ways that have a lot of consequences.

And again to be clear, this is me talking about how the legalistic and constitutional aspects are contextualized. Not me trying to in any way shape or form for even the slightest instant imply that what was done to the Cherokee and other Native American tribes was justified, good, right, okay, or whatever. Because I'm pretty sure I need that disclaimer to avoid someone getting trigger-happy.

I mean, ad populum is a logical fallacy for a reason.

I know that "republican tradition" has positive connotations but, for this particular argument, I would prefer to describe it in a more neutral manner. "Republican tradition" does not mean (for the sake of the argument) that they are a shining beacon of democracy, instead, it means that the governmental institutions of the US hold a particular view on how the system naturally works.

This view is formed by traditionally liberal (18th century liberal) values such as separation of power, rule of law or secularism. This values are generally considered neutral because they are "natural" (they have been there since the US gained its independence), changing them is like changing science. Anyone can dislike scientifically proven facts as much as they want but noone can deny that they are true.

Fascism really breaks those rules because it wants to create an ideological relligion (an state functioning through the rule of an idiology instead of law). They invent a collective which they can call "the nation", "the culture" or "the race" (it doesn't really matter how they call it, they all have in common that they are a vague concept which must be reclaimed if they want to return to the good ol' days) for which the individuals must sacrifice their rights (they also tend to add the vague promise that once the crisis is over the rights will be returned) if they want to achieve collective salvation.

Summarising, Reagan is trying to convince the american institutions that their natural form is x while this institutions think that their natural form is y. The obvious outcome is that Reagan is going to rely on extra-legal means (read: Soup letters agencies, the army, paramilitaries...) to achieve his objectives instead of the judiciary or the legislative branches of the state.​
 
I mean, ad populum is a logical fallacy for a reason.​
Well yes, but the thing is, even strongly anti-liberal leftists (and this quest's membership is probably a fairly leftist crowd) tend to view "democratic" and "good" as being to some degree synonymous. So I wanted to go well out of my way to 'disown' the implication that just because I am describing an action as taking place within the envelope of a democracy's "republican traditions" that I am trying to justify the action as moral or as being legalistically acceptable.

Because we've all seen, for instance, people try to call the secession of the Confederate States 'legal' as a way of deflecting attention from the fact that they were fucking slaver scum trying to preserve their slave power.

I'm trying to be clear that that is not my intention, since I do not feel much trust that my good faith intentions will be taken for granted in this matter.

I know that "republican tradition" has positive connotations but, for this particular argument, I would prefer to describe it in a more neutral manner. "Republican tradition" does not mean (for the sake of the argument) that they are a shining beacon of democracy, instead, it means that the governmental institutions of the US hold a particular view on how the system naturally works.

This view is formed by traditionally liberal (18th century liberal) values such as separation of power, rule of law or secularism. This values are generally considered neutral because they are "natural" (they have been there since the US gained its independence), changing them is like changing science. Anyone can dislike scientifically proven facts as much as they want but noone can deny that they are true.

Fascism really breaks those rules because it wants to create an ideological religion (an state functioning through the rule of an ideology instead of law). They invent a collective which they can call "the nation", "the culture" or "the race" (it doesn't really matter how they call it, they all have in common that they are a vague concept which must be reclaimed if they want to return to the good ol' days) for which the individuals must sacrifice their rights (they also tend to add the vague promise that once the crisis is over the rights will be returned) if they want to achieve collective salvation.
We are broadly speaking in agreement here.

Summarising, Reagan is trying to convince the american institutions that their natural form is x while this institutions think that their natural form is y. The obvious outcome is that Reagan is going to rely on extra-legal means (read: Soup letters agencies, the army, paramilitaries...) to achieve his objectives instead of the judiciary or the legislative branches of the state.
Yes.

Of course, the trick here is that many people among those extra-legal institutions may believe that the natural form of the institutions is Y, too. Reagan would need to first reforge the military-security-intelligence complex into the Gestapo he needs to build, then use it to crush competing centers of power.

My own main point is that given that he couldn't even win a presidential election fairly in 1980, he's probably fighting something of an uphill battle to maintain legitimacy. He's massively underperforming the OTL Ronald Reagan, for example, who won in a devastating electoral blowout that gave him an extremely strong mandate. Whereas in this timeline, Reagan's method of gaining office was blatantly grabby and questionable, involving a "recount" that cannot possibly have been under anything other than shady circumstances likely to trigger a constitutional crisis.

OTL, lots of people were arguing that Ronald Reagan should not be the president of the United States, due to his illiberal views, his anti-intellectualism, his alliance with religious fanatics, and so on. But nobody was arguing seriously that Reagan wasn't the president, that he hadn't actually obtained the job title legally.

Here, that's probably still ambiguous or even questioned by some significant voices within the establishment. I'm talking about people who have real legitimacy of their own and who would cause a lot of trouble if they started getting disappeared. And these powerful bastards may well be just about as anti-communist or gay-bashing as the median 1980 Republican voter... But on some level, they still think Walter Mondale (or whoever Carter's running mate was) should be president, and whose interests were trampled in the process of making that happen.

Reagan's gotten away with a huge power grab, but having done so, he's got a fairly complex situation where careless moves could undermine him fatally.​

Of course, this makes civil war in the US if anything MORE likely, not less.
 
Of course, this makes civil war in the US if anything MORE likely, not less.
"Where did all those radicals from the early 70s go?" is my main question. I've noticed in your posts Simon about how the system itself works, but what about the masses of people the system doesn't represent?

The BPP was active all the way into the early 80s under Reagan, Intercommunalism was an Ideology that Huey Newton developed in 1974. Black Anarchism grew under the Black Liberation Army which grew in power as the BPP shrank. What happened to such groups in this timeline? Without the placations of the Black Community IRL had Black people in general will have less buy in to the system and more support for such groups. There are plenty of other groups that were radical. LGBT people don't disappear just because the system is more bigoted. The fact that stonewall turned bloody isn't going to subdue ANY LGBT person if my modern day look into the community is any representation. Union workers and agitators don't disappear because the system becomes more anti-union, they just become less bought into the system itself which leads them down more radical paths. Where are all of the college students who are still able to organize and form communal bonds on campus grounds and agitate for changes and do protests? Even if a dozen Kent States happen they won't stop and might just become more violent in their agitation for change. The country going to a dark place is a more radical place and the American Far-Left still exists. What about the Far Right lunatics that are still unhappy because they got what they want and it was terrible. The militia movement arguably started in the 1980s and reached its peak in the 1990s, stemming from groups such as the The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord in the 1970s. How will those groups play out now that they have more backing but less trust in the system when everyone is a crypto-communist being sold out to Guangchou?
 
"Where did all those radicals from the early 70s go?" is my main question. I've noticed in your posts Simon about how the system itself works, but what about the masses of people the system doesn't represent?
The main reason I focused on the establishment is because all too often I've seen people say one of two things:

1) From a centrist perspective, "these movements could just be suppressed lol" or something like that, which you are right to dispute, but also...

2) From a modern leftist perspective, at least on SV, there's a tendency to dismiss the existence and relevance of internal dissension within the establishment. It gets misinterpreted as "oh, that's just liberals saying the system is actually fine," when there's a real point to be made that the establishment isn't a hive mind. While it may present something loosely approximating a unified hostile front from the perspective of would-be revolutionaries, it's perfectly capable of falling out within itself, even violently, if its own internal balance of power is disrupted.

So I wanted to focus on that specific angle, which immediately tends to prevent any attempt by a right-wing president in a position like TTL Reagan's from somehow snapping his fingers and imposing dictatorship, single party rule, or even properly speaking something identifiable as fascism.

Dissidents fighting the system from outside will absolutely exist. But the system itself is also going to be divided rather than unanimous, and that's important.
 
Yes like just the average person of this time probably thinks the Soviet Union is a United steel juggernaut just by looking at them, but anyone that can get a more thorough look inside will see it's constant musical chairs with knives.
 
The main reason I focused on the establishment is because all too often I've seen people say one of two things:
Sorry I meant that as in you make a good analysis of the establishment but the other half of the equation wasn't mentioned. Appreciated your noting of how the American system works.

Yes like just the average person of this time probably thinks the Soviet Union is a United steel juggernaut just by looking at them,
To be fair in the USA dissidents can elected people they want into local and state positions even if the federal level leadership institutes fascism. The multi-leveled process of the USA's democracy insulates itself from dominant control of any one group much more easily than the USSR system ever does.
 
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Sorry I meant that as in you make a good analysis of the establishment but the other half of the equation wasn't mentioned.
Okay.

Just trying to keep my observations delimited and more tightly focused here.

To be fair in the USA dissidents can elected people they want into local and state positions even if the federal level leadership institutes fascism. The multi-leveled process of the USA's democracy insulates itself from dominant control of any one group much more easily than the USSR system ever does.
Under fascism you can expect state and local politics to be heavily disrupted to the point where genuine dissidents actually winning a local election becomes vanishingly unlikely. Because the fascist federal government and associated Party will absolutely put a very, very, very heavy thumb on the scales to make electoral surprises impossible, just as Hitler had no real desire in allowing further elections to be held that might present significant inconveniences or surprises.

This is, in fact, one of the things that most clearly differentiates 'fascism' from 'a republic under liberalism where a lot of the voters are right-wingers.' Fascism is usually overtly and always covertly anti-electoralist. Because electoralism means accepting the possibility of a peaceful transfer of power away from oneself and to those who disagree. And fascism is ideologically committed to arrogating all power to itself by force, rejects the idea that valid alternative points of view can exist, and seeks their destruction.
 
I mean, IRL that was kinda employed down south to preserve the status of blacks as second class citizens, going so far as to do ''only technically not coups by their own metrics' when they failed to sufficiently dissuade potential voters. And of course voting regulations such as tests and stuff like grandfather clause was used to stack the deck.

There are ways, as long as the groups willing to do so have the power to not get screwed over by people that took offense to said measures.
 
I mean, IRL that was kinda employed down south to preserve the status of blacks as second class citizens, going so far as to do ''only technically not coups by their own metrics' when they failed to sufficiently dissuade potential voters. And of course voting regulations such as tests and stuff like grandfather clause was used to stack the deck.
Yes, and the Jim Crow South was probably about as close as the US has ever come to actually implementing fascism on a state/regional level.

But the broader point here is that rejection of adverse local election results, especially as a top-down measure, is a hallmark of fascism, to the point where it is unrealistic to imagine fascism actually having anything like a secure grip on power or making any credible effort to impose its agenda without that.
 
Yes, and the Jim Crow South was probably about as close as the US has ever come to actually implementing fascism on a state/regional level.

But the broader point here is that rejection of adverse local election results, especially as a top-down measure, is a hallmark of fascism, to the point where it is unrealistic to imagine fascism actually having anything like a secure grip on power or making any credible effort to impose its agenda without that.
Yeah...
Jim Crow only really worked cause of the sheer cultural weight behind the 'successors' of the Confederates, which fell apart once years after the traumatic Civil War, the events of the Civil Rights movement finished the job started long ago by destroying the acceptance of said state of affairs at the highest level. Something that this particular case isn't gonna enjoy, and if anything. Would see the most resistance exactly where it would matter the most, the state, city, and county levels.
 
1981 - H1 - Gods of a new world order
Général d'armée Maurice Malet stood in his new office in Luxembourg, the soon to be, de-facto seat of the European Parliament, home of the first Pan-European organization dedicated and devoted to peace, prosperity, and integration between states once bitter enemies, now stalwart allies. In his opinion, it was the beginning of something better for his children and grandchildren, the start of a decades-long process that would see no war reach the shores and hills of Europe and see all peoples of Europe prosper in unity rather than with knives at each others throat and daggers in their back for little gain.

Then again...turning around, Malet looked at the barren and empty office, the room having been given to him due to a rushed decision yesterday, with his staff, documents, furniture, and all other things that would enable him to perform his actual job to arrive piece-meal during the next month. His chair would arrive in two, so he had to make do with an office chair he had bought in the city. All of it screamed to him the haphazard and frantic nature of the decisions currently being made in the Parliament, politicians and diplomats trying to react to the formation of the Cybernetic Pact while formulating and planning a course for both their nations and the continent through the next couple of years. At any other time, he'd be at the front of those making jokes about the current situation while listening closely to the news, but one of the frantic decisions had catapulted him from a general in the army to his current position.

The plaque with his title, though not his name, had been the only thing ready when he arrived, not even a table present to put the damn thing on top of. 'Commissioner of the Integrated European Defense' read the thing in proud bronze letters on black, a lacquered wooden frame surrounding the title, or CIED. In a certain light, it looked almost sneering and contemptuous, as if the existence of the position itself was made to mock him personally and not an office that had, at once, drawn heavy criticism and stark optimism from each member of the EU.

The ratification of Act 17b, called the European Defense Pact (or EDP) before the adoption of the new flags and symbols of the Union lent itself to that, especially with heavy confusion from various sides about the nature of the EDP, as it hadn't been advertised in any grand manner. Its adoption and rushed implementation had almost wholly been due to the threat posed by and panic caused by CyPac since nobody liked to wake up to nearly all of North/East/West Africa, half of the Middle East, and a smattering of other countries unite together into an "Anti-Imperialist Alliance to foster Mutual Aid, Socioeconomic Justice, and Developmentalist Initiatives." Oh hey, he just thought that without laughing at the joke, progress!

Personally, Maurice Malet held no qualms about a bunch of nations trying to better the lot of their people. Still, most countries who formed a military alliance to repress and impose their regimes usually had, at the very least, the manners to outright say it within a single layer of bullshit, not seven like CyPac did. For crying out loud, the ink hadn't even dried on the damn papers when the first weapon shipments and volunteer units had left harbors around the world to repress people trying to fight for their rights and justice! And that didn't even cover th-

"Sir?" His secretary's voice pulled him out of his thoughts, her head peaking at him from the door as he scowled at his plaque.

"Yes?" He said, trying to brush off his thoughts as he brushed off imaginary dust from his suit.

"You wished to be informed about your upcoming meeting to be briefed on the Guangchou Mechanized Armor?" She spoke, deliberately not speaking the Guang name for their newest military development. Who in their right mind called mechanized personal armor "Iron Tigers?" ...well, the Guang did, but they were nuts.

"Thank you," Maurice quickly spoke, forcing himself to concentrate on the here and now rather than naming schemes. "I'll meet them in conference room 3 for the briefing." Hopefully, this would be short, or he'd have the unenviable task of drawing up a budget and seeing if his office of Commissioner had any actual pull rather than be ceremonial only.
 
1981 - H1 - .... .. a new ..... order
Alexei woke up, his head pounding and mouth dry, a hand fumbling around in the dark to silence the infernal noise of his clock trying to rouse him from his slumber. He failed to silence it, though his fumbling led to the damn thing falling down and breaking apart, silenced now all the same.

With a groan, the man began to rouse himself from his sleep, fighting to unwrap himself from his blankets as he stood up, tired eyes trying to understand what they saw as feet hit the cold floor of his apartment and began to shuffle him toward his tiny kitchen where the sweet nectar of coffee awaited to fully wake him once more. Coffee, quite possibly the only drug in the world that had only positive effects, nectar of productivity and succor for the tired and overworked!

Yawning, he began to smear some butter onto a slice of bread as his cup began to cool from molten to merely scathing; the brown liquid quickly devoured in the same minute as his breakfast once he had finished.

Stretching, Alexei began to shower before dressing, his mind now, thanks to the movements and coffee, waking fully, happy to allow him to feel dread and anxiety about his upcoming day. The purges had stopped some time back, but there was still the wriggling feeling of him being the next in line because his boss had taken a bit more from the factories than he should and being blamed for the difference due to deals and old friendships in high places shielding the bastard.

He looked at the postcard his sister had sent him from Guangchou, wondering if he should take up her offer of coming to her; they apparently needed all manner of specialists and were more than willing to pay top money for any to immigrate. Then again, he doubted they had all the amenities that-

"OPEN UP!" A voice shouted from his door, their fist pounding on the same, shaking the frame.

Minutes later, Alexei walked onto the street in cuffs, the first person arrested in a new wave of anti-corruption purges in the Union.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by HeroCooky on Mar 12, 2023 at 8:24 AM, finished with 99 posts and 13 votes.
 
1981 - H1 - Iron Tiger 2.0
[X] Plan: Thanks, Glushko
-[X] Guangchou Representative - Yes.
-[X] Meet-Up - Yes.
-[X] Questions - Yes.
-[x] Are Homo Lupus Human - Correct.
-[X] Ban/Condemn Sapient Gene Creation - Opposed.
-[X] Accept The Second Offer
You Offer: Gen1 Iron Tigers (Current Native Rollout: 75% Complete) to the USSR (preventing further native rollout due to industrial limitations), Technical Documents of non-military Electronic Advancements made and in progress for the next five years.
They Give: Construction of native space industry + 1 Cosmodrome in Guangchou within about four years. (~8 Turns)
Both Agree To: 5 Years of Launch Co-Op and Co-Development of Spy and Comsats.

-[X] Military
--[X] Design the Next Iron Tiger (+5 Reputation) (Bonus: +1 PttF + 2 Omake)
-[X] Military
--[X] Design the Next Iron Tiger (+5 Reputation) (Bonus: +1 PttF + 2 Omake)

8 + 3 = 11 - Boosted

Wei Mai (Communist Dictator of The Most Glorious Twink of Guangchou) sat in the Yellow Conference Room surrounded by a dozen officials from all manner of military, engineering, and scientific branches dedicated to the creation and improvement of the Iron Tigers, resulting in the current proposals for the next iteration and generation of the, for now, uniquely Guang Warmachines. As part of the military and government, it fell on her to guide these people (currently locked into vicious staring matches and passive-aggressive snipes against each other's proposals) from trying to murder each other to put their energies into helping the people better arm themselves against the oppressors of the world and working class.

Even if it meant that she had to gently let down Ma Li with her proposal of an IT-mounted flamethrower (she will murder Wei) and tell people that they could not paint pin-ups onto the machines (...for now.).

However, it did mean that she had been listening to the findings of the large-scale exercises of the produced Gen1 ITs and the various ways in which they could be improved and used.

The most apparent doctrinal use for the machines was as shock troops in Urban environments and as replacements for tanks within mountainous, forested, and otherwise tank-inaccessible terrain. Their armor, size, and ability to wield heavy weaponry made them perfectly suitable to become a spearhead for the army and infantry. They were also supremely maneuverable in rugged terrain that hindered traditional vehicles from supporting ground troops. The second doctrinal use was to use them as combat engineers. Their humanoid shapes, hands, and ability to use tools suited them to perform basic construction and destruction tasks within the field where heavy or specialized equipment couldn't be used. For example, bridges could be constructed by quickly felling a few trees and laying them next to each other for infantry use. At the same time, inconvenient walls and fortifications were dismantled rapidly, alongside digging trenches and constructing fortifications of pre-made bunkers and headquarters for troops within the field.

In contrast to figuring out how to use the ITs, how they could be improved from an engineering standpoint ranged between three factions, those who wished to radically re-design the machines to make use of non-bipedal movements and balancing for various reasons, those that wanted incremental improvements to the overall structure, and those who saw no need to do anything beyond fixing toothing problems and equipping the machines with updated weaponry and equipment, such as a combat shield, automatic shotguns/grenade launchers, minelayer equipment attached to the backs for ranged use, and some more minor changes.

In the end, it came down to this:
[] (GEN2 IRON TIGER WRITE-IN)

AN: Basically, ITs are shock troops, combat engineers, and best used in Urban/Rugged Terrain. You can now make the second generation of them, with either a radical re-design (Cyber), some changes to its structure for better use, or slap better equipment onto them while fixing most/all issues with the Gen1s.
 
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