Voting is open
[] Commiewood: Be Human
A self-indulgent patriotic science fiction series in which an alien ship crashes crashes to earth. The nations of the earth immediately fracture but ultimately coalesce around ideologies, one which seeks to exterminate the aliens, one which seeks to worship them, one which seeks to resist the aliens, one which seeks subservience to them, one which seeks to escape and one which seeks to profit. A tiny island nation in the pacific though goes their own way. Peaceful coexistence.

The series follows the island nation as they seek to understand, fight, and then seek peace with the solar system's new neighbors. Building up, exploring space, gaining friends, and making their way through a familiar yet terrifyingly unknown universe.
 
90% the same as @CyberEnby's plan as I've got no real qualms with most of it.

[] Plan: An International Forms.
-[] Infrastructure
--[] Create New Housing (Helpful)
---[] Use Large-Scale Energy Efficient Housing (Helpful) (+2 People's Opinion) (+2 Reputation) (Bonus: +1 Popular Desire)
-[] Heavy Industry
--[] Construct The 'Dragon Rail'
--[] Construct A (Iron Tiger Derived) Electronics Factory (+3 Reputation) (Harmful) (Highly Suspicious) (Steel Foundry Needed) (Bonus: +2 Electronics)
-[] Agri-, And Aquaculture
--[] Develop Fish Ranching (-1 Reputation)
-[] Social
--[] Propagandize An Achievement (Helpful) (+2 People's Opinion)
---[] The 'Dragon Rail'
-[] Political
--[] Leader Pushed Developments
---[] Clean Out The Statistics Bureau: The Special Tasks Group (???) (Bonus: +1 Spy Action?)
--[] Oversee The USSR-CCP Talks
--[] Armed Solidarity (+7 Reputation) (+5 People's Opinion) (International (Read: West) Anger) (Repeatable)
---[] The Kurdish Insurance Policy


The only thing I'm not really sure about is the Modular Skateboard Vehicle, and the only issue I'm seeing with it is something they've highlighted themselves already, namely driving the wheels with an oversized bicycle chain. Personally, if we're for a turbo-electric drive system with multiple motors as a basis for military vehicles, I think we should go all the way for an Individual Wheel Drive.

For other options to replace the skateboard in the plan, I'm considering:

-[] Military
--[] Construct An Airfield
--[] Construct An Airfield


We've got our new plane designs, we've got our new factory producing our planes, so now let's build places to operate them from. While I imagine that we do have some airfields already from our father's reign, and we did design our planes to operate off of unprepared runways, I more concerned about the maintenance and auxiliary equipment these would come with. While I'm certain we are capable of maintaining our current air fleet, I don't know if the Anata has any additional requirements stemming from it's stealth materials or new engine tech, and I'm fairly certain we don't have the facilities for our AWACS birds simply because we haven't had any before now. Any new airfields we develop now should take into account the needs of our new aircraft, and building two is just for redundancy's sake.

The last two actions I'm not to sure about but if the general consensus is that our Healthcare is probably shit and being hidden by the SB, I'm leaning towards

-[] Infrastructure
--[] Improve Medical Infrastructure (Helpful) (+1 People's Opinion) (-3 Reputation)


-[] Light Industry
--[] Build Vitamin Supplement Factory (Helpful) (-1 Reputation)


Got no idea about the personal actions, so I'm open to ideas there.

[] Commiewood: Pioneers
A soft sci-fi comedy set in a post-revolution world where Communism is global and automated to the point where a job is a want rather than a need, the final frontier to be explored is space. But look away from those big names, the famous Pioneers charting the wonders of the universe and spearheading the expansion of Communism from the Captain's chair; here's the hijinks of a bunch of low-rank nobodies, who secure in their knowledge that the machines can take over their duties whenever they don't feel like doing them, become the worst nightmare of superior officers anywhere: bored soldiers.

Two parts comedy, one part propaganda meant to slip through censors easier by satirizing the post-revolution world in government-approved ways (such as poking fun at Guangchou's habit of excessively verbose names) in order to spread the end goal of communism to areas that would have only gotten their information from anti-communist propaganda before, and topped of with a dash of military kickbacks by making the Explorer corps an explicitly military organization, implying that even in a post-revolution world with no war, the military will still have a place. Explicitly does not contain aliens or AI to avoid damaging the idea of a world without war and the idea of AI slavery with all the automation respectively.

TL;DR Bored soldiers, the slice-of-life anime.
 
To be clear, I am laughing at the idea that we are about to give everyone else terrible ideas for mecha development, and I can't wait to see how that all pans our for them. I like the actual plans you came up with tho.

I threw it in there because HC has told us that both Japan and the USA rolled poorly on their reaction to mecha being revealed, and I thought 'lets write up a funny bit in the lore'. It doesn't even have to be true - I could totally believe this becoming the same sort of technical myth as 'the US didn't think oxygen rich staged combustion rocket engines were possible'. I only recently found out that the US was actually pretty deep into the weeds of designing an ORSC cycle engine (but the US is disadvantaged at liquid rocketry so it never went anywhere) - and it's far more likely they didn't believe it was possible for the Soviets to make an ORSC engine.

I'm all for plan Red Star Rising, but personal actions aren't just a thing to do when tensions are low.

I'm going to suggest the same actions as last time on that front.

Honestly, you're right. My plan doesn't really add anything interesting to the RP. I'll adopt these.

The only thing I'm not really sure about is the Modular Skateboard Vehicle, and the only issue I'm seeing with it is something they've highlighted themselves already, namely driving the wheels with an oversized bicycle chain. Personally, if we're for a turbo-electric drive system with multiple motors as a basis for military vehicles, I think we should go all the way for an Individual Wheel Drive.

For other options to replace the skateboard in the plan, I'm considering:

-[] Military
--[] Construct An Airfield
--[] Construct An Airfield


We've got our new plane designs, we've got our new factory producing our planes, so now let's build places to operate them from. While I imagine that we do have some airfields already from our father's reign, and we did design our planes to operate off of unprepared runways, I more concerned about the maintenance and auxiliary equipment these would come with. While I'm certain we are capable of maintaining our current air fleet, I don't know if the Anata has any additional requirements stemming from it's stealth materials or new engine tech, and I'm fairly certain we don't have the facilities for our AWACS birds simply because we haven't had any before now. Any new airfields we develop now should take into account the needs of our new aircraft, and building two is just for redundancy's sake.

The last two actions I'm not to sure about but if the general consensus is that our Healthcare is probably shit and being hidden by the SB, I'm leaning towards

-[] Infrastructure
--[] Improve Medical Infrastructure (Helpful) (+1 People's Opinion) (-3 Reputation)


-[] Light Industry
--[] Build Vitamin Supplement Factory (Helpful) (-1 Reputation)


Got no idea about the personal actions, so I'm open to ideas there.

[] Commiewood: Pioneers
A soft sci-fi comedy set in a post-revolution world where Communism is global and automated to the point where a job is a want rather than a need, the final frontier to be explored is space. But look away from those big names, the famous Pioneers charting the wonders of the universe and spearheading the expansion of Communism from the Captain's chair; here's the hijinks of a bunch of low-rank nobodies, who secure in their knowledge that the machines can take over their duties whenever they don't feel like doing them, become the worst nightmare of superior officers anywhere: bored soldiers.

Two parts comedy, one part propaganda meant to slip through censors easier by satirizing the post-revolution world in government-approved ways (such as poking fun at Guangchou's habit of excessively verbose names) in order to spread the end goal of communism to areas that would have only gotten their information from anti-communist propaganda before, and topped of with a dash of military kickbacks by making the Explorer corps an explicitly military organization, implying that even in a post-revolution world with no war, the military will still have a place. Explicitly does not contain aliens or AI to avoid damaging the idea of a world without war and the idea of AI slavery with all the automation respectively.

TL;DR Bored soldiers, the slice-of-life anime.

I mean, motorcycles are also chain drive, and chain has a lot of advantage in our situation due to providing some free gearing that lets the electric engine operate at higher (and thus more efficient) speeds. I specifically want to avoid in-wheel motors because that both complicates the design and shits on the performance. Like, if you compare in-hub motors with chain driven ones for bikes you'll immediately see that in-hub ones are worse in every respect because they have to operate in the low speed regime. Also, putting them in the hub means they're going to be a pain to cool and keep clean - you're gonna have dust and debris infiltrating the motors and increasing wear.

I am leery of the big chain through. We're probably better off using four lower powered motors, each driving one wheel. That will reduce the overall chain length while still giving us all the benefits. It'll cost a bit more, but mass production of the motors will help with that - as will the fact that for some applications we can use just two motors instead of four.


Air fields... I think can be integrated into the general infrastructure project next turn - we can do the Cold War style air bases where it's all a bunch of facilities spread out and connected by regular roads that jet planes taxi on to get around.


Pioneers is a great idea, very Lower Decks. :V

Wait make it a side effect from us do the Afghanistan one so we kill two birds in one stone

Ehh, feels like gaming the system. But I do think we should send aid to Iran as well or the fundamentalists will overwhelm the progressives (and the Kurds will get fucked over gain).

By the way, what's our plan for recovering Chinese Opinion?

Spongebob.Meme: Tractors. :V
 
I mean, motorcycles are also chain drive, and chain has a lot of advantage in our situation due to providing some free gearing that lets the electric engine operate at higher (and thus more efficient) speeds. I specifically want to avoid in-wheel motors because that both complicates the design and shits on the performance. Like, if you compare in-hub motors with chain driven ones for bikes you'll immediately see that in-hub ones are worse in every respect because they have to operate in the low speed regime. Also, putting them in the hub means they're going to be a pain to cool and keep clean - you're gonna have dust and debris infiltrating the motors and increasing wear.

I am leery of the big chain through. We're probably better off using four lower powered motors, each driving one wheel. That will reduce the overall chain length while still giving us all the benefits. It'll cost a bit more, but mass production of the motors will help with that - as will the fact that for some applications we can use just two motors instead of four.


Air fields... I think can be integrated into the general infrastructure project next turn - we can do the Cold War style air bases where it's all a bunch of facilities spread out and connected by regular roads that jet planes taxi on to get around.


Pioneers is a great idea, very Lower Decks. :V
I think that most of my problem with the big chain is that, like on a motorcycle, it really only works if the wheel is in line with the driving gear and doesn't play well with trying to turn them to steer. We could rely solely on differential steering and not turn the wheels at all, and that would result in a very simple to maintain and repair drive train like you said. It will also significantly increase the wear and tear on both the wheel itself and the road surface it is driving on, since the wheels are going to be dragged sideways over the ground whenever the vehicle turns as they can't follow the curve of the circle.

I was originally considering wheel hub motors when first thinking about the idea of individual wheel drive with steering wheels since it would mean that we wouldn't have to drive the wheels when they're at an angle relative to the main vehicle, would also free up space behind the wheels for a more robust suspension system, and IMO would be a viable starting point the whole rim-driven propeller tech we were talking about for our torpedoes, since it's just that in reverse. But if it's really that bad an idea for this I've got no problems sticking with non-hub motors.

An additional idea I had that would be possible with a motor for each wheel would be including a really good traction control system, to the point where rather than just individually braking wheels that are slipping, the system could actually automatically reroute power to increase the torque of the other wheels that aren't, making it more likely for the vehicle to be able to pull itself through if it gets a wheel stuck in the mud or sand.

Lower Decks was actually the inspiration I had for Pioneers. :V
 
I think that most of my problem with the big chain is that, like on a motorcycle, it really only works if the wheel is in line with the driving gear and doesn't play well with trying to turn them to steer. We could rely solely on differential steering and not turn the wheels at all, and that would result in a very simple to maintain and repair drive train like you said. It will also significantly increase the wear and tear on both the wheel itself and the road surface it is driving on, since the wheels are going to be dragged sideways over the ground whenever the vehicle turns as they can't follow the curve of the circle.

I was originally considering wheel hub motors when first thinking about the idea of individual wheel drive with steering wheels since it would mean that we wouldn't have to drive the wheels when they're at an angle relative to the main vehicle, would also free up space behind the wheels for a more robust suspension system, and IMO would be a viable starting point the whole rim-driven propeller tech we were talking about for our torpedoes, since it's just that in reverse. But if it's really that bad an idea for this I've got no problems sticking with non-hub motors.

An additional idea I had that would be possible with a motor for each wheel would be including a really good traction control system, to the point where rather than just individually braking wheels that are slipping, the system could actually automatically reroute power to increase the torque of the other wheels that aren't, making it more likely for the vehicle to be able to pull itself through if it gets a wheel stuck in the mud or sand.

Lower Decks was actually the inspiration I had for Pioneers. :V

I was under the impression that if the wheel base had an appropriate length to width ratio, the amount of wheel drag would be minimal - similar to how tanks have certain optimal length/width ratios to allow for good differential steering while avoiding that sort of dragging?
 
I was under the impression that if the wheel base had an appropriate length to width ratio, the amount of wheel drag would be minimal - similar to how tanks have certain optimal length/width ratios to allow for good differential steering while avoiding that sort of dragging?
I imagine that there's been plenty of design studies on the optimal tank length/width ratio and how to make them more maneuverable, tanks also have the advantage that metal/metal+rubber tracks are generally just more durable than wheels, and so can better handle the abrasion from dragging or sliding sideways. On the road damage side there's probably some level of "fuck the roads" thought in their too, since if the tank is actually driving on the roads rather than being shipped by rail or truck, chances are the crew has more important things to worry about than keeping the asphalt pristine (or they're on parade, but as voters we don't really seem too interested in doing a lot of those) so preventing road damage isn't high up on the tank design priority list. But if we're planning on making this wheel chassis the basis of our new military logistics, it's likely going to be doing a lot of road driving so tire wear and reducing road damage are going get bumped up the priority list so we don't have to replace and repave as often.

To provide some visualization of what I'm talking about with the wheel drag, here's an image I ripped from wikipedia of the steering geometry that you might find in a normal car. You can see that if you draw the arc each wheel has to travel around the center of the turning circle, each wheel is rolling tangentially throughout the turn so very little, if any, side slip occurs.
(Notably this is just steering geometry, not a drive. There's nothing preventing this layout from being combined with differential steering to drive the outer wheels faster or the inner wheels slower.)

Throwing together some shitty paint diagrams; If I'm understanding your MSVC correct none of the wheels can turn to change the angle of the "axis" they are mounted on, and with the front and rear axis being parallel there's no way that they can all point to the same center of a turning circle like in the above diagram. In the top drawing the wheels are not rolling along the curve of the turn the vehicle is making, so unless we stuck omni-wheels on this thing for the vehicle to make the turn drawn the wheels will need to slide in a direction in which they can't roll. This will result in a significant amount of sliding friction, rather than just rolling friction. Marx forbid you try to turn on the spot by driving each side in opposite directions, the wheels will be dragged along the turning circle almost as much as they drive it. Pure differential steering without changing the wheel angle will still work in both cases, but you're going to be losing a large amount of performance during turns to increased friction and wasted work.
 
I imagine that there's been plenty of design studies on the optimal tank length/width ratio and how to make them more maneuverable, tanks also have the advantage that metal/metal+rubber tracks are generally just more durable than wheels, and so can better handle the abrasion from dragging or sliding sideways. On the road damage side there's probably some level of "fuck the roads" thought in their too, since if the tank is actually driving on the roads rather than being shipped by rail or truck, chances are the crew has more important things to worry about than keeping the asphalt pristine (or they're on parade, but as voters we don't really seem too interested in doing a lot of those) so preventing road damage isn't high up on the tank design priority list. But if we're planning on making this wheel chassis the basis of our new military logistics, it's likely going to be doing a lot of road driving so tire wear and reducing road damage are going get bumped up the priority list so we don't have to replace and repave as often.

To provide some visualization of what I'm talking about with the wheel drag, here's an image I ripped from wikipedia of the steering geometry that you might find in a normal car. You can see that if you draw the arc each wheel has to travel around the center of the turning circle, each wheel is rolling tangentially throughout the turn so very little, if any, side slip occurs.
(Notably this is just steering geometry, not a drive. There's nothing preventing this layout from being combined with differential steering to drive the outer wheels faster or the inner wheels slower.)

Throwing together some shitty paint diagrams; If I'm understanding your MSVC correct none of the wheels can turn to change the angle of the "axis" they are mounted on, and with the front and rear axis being parallel there's no way that they can all point to the same center of a turning circle like in the above diagram. In the top drawing the wheels are not rolling along the curve of the turn the vehicle is making, so unless we stuck omni-wheels on this thing for the vehicle to make the turn drawn the wheels will need to slide in a direction in which they can't roll. This will result in a significant amount of sliding friction, rather than just rolling friction. Marx forbid you try to turn on the spot by driving each side in opposite directions, the wheels will be dragged along the turning circle almost as much as they drive it. Pure differential steering without changing the wheel angle will still work in both cases, but you're going to be losing a large amount of performance during turns to increased friction and wasted work.

I totally forgot that this exact issue has a solution (also from motorcycles):


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywGgjfFeakA

Normally center hub steering ers on the side of being heavier and more complex, but I have a feeling at least part of that is path dependence - everyone is used to forks and all the research goes towards them. I've also got a feeling that our expertise with mech joints would let us go a lot further here in terms of cost and performance than other countries could pull off.
 
I totally forgot that this exact issue has a solution (also from motorcycles):

Normally center hub steering ers on the side of being heavier and more complex, but I have a feeling at least part of that is path dependence - everyone is used to forks and all the research goes towards them. I've also got a feeling that our expertise with mech joints would let us go a lot further here in terms of cost and performance than other countries could pull off.
Eh, the first thing I think looking at that is: "How far does that joint actually allow the wheels to turn, and how far can they turn in the first place before they start rubbing against the chain?" I feel like this is another case of what works for bikes might not work as well on cars, since motorcycles and bicycles can also lean into their turns while 4 wheel cars can't (usually).

Well with voting open now I'm going to stick with my plan for the airfields this turn, because completely separate to my misgivings about the skateboards steering system, I'd rather try to have the airfields on line for the big meetup so we can fly as many planes as possible and make our big parade even bigger (and hopefully more effective on the Chinese and Soviet delegations). The Skateboard on the other hand isn't even a vehicle by itself, just the base for one so I don't think we'll be able to show it off as much as we could with our new air force. And we aren't actually making any vehicles with it right now so everything produced is likely just going to sit in a warehouse gathering dust for now.

[X] Plan: An International Forms.
-[X] Infrastructure
--[X] Create New Housing (Helpful)
---[X] Use Large-Scale Energy Efficient Housing (Helpful) (+2 People's Opinion) (+2 Reputation) (Bonus: +1 Popular Desire)
--[X] Improve Medical Infrastructure (Helpful) (+1 People's Opinion) (-3 Reputation)
-[X] Light Industry
--[X] Build Vitamin Supplement Factory (Helpful) (-1 Reputation)

-[X] Heavy Industry
--[X] Construct The 'Dragon Rail'
--[X] Construct A (Iron Tiger Derived) Electronics Factory (+3 Reputation) (Harmful) (Highly Suspicious) (Steel Foundry Needed) (Bonus: +2 Electronics)
-[X] Agri-, And Aquaculture
--[X] Farmer's Councils (-20 Reputation) (Gain Another Faction)
-[X] Military
--[X] Construct An Airfield
--[X] Construct An Airfield
-[X] Social
--[X] Propagandize An Achievement (Helpful) (+2 People's Opinion)
---[X] The 'Dragon Rail'
-[X] Political
--[X] Leader Pushed Developments
---[X] Clean Out The Statistics Bureau: The Special Tasks Group (???) (Bonus: +1 Spy Action?)
--[X] Oversee The USSR-CCP Talks
--[X] Armed Solidarity (+7 Reputation) (+5 People's Opinion) (International (Read: West) Anger) (Repeatable)
---[X] Iranian Revolution:
A revolution spearheaded by both Communists and Liberals has deposed the monarchy in Iran. While most of our focus has been on Afghanistan, that's not to say that we can't lend some support to the leftist factions here too, be it in guns and training, bribes of equipment for swing factions, Liberation theology to try to undermine the Fundamentalist positions, or radios to allow them easier communication and to spread their message far and wide, all in service of making sure that said revolution remains Communist and is no co-opted by any reactionaries.

-[X] Wei Jungming - (RP)
--[X] Personal Action: Go stargazing away from the city with the family:
Out here, away from the city and all the lights where the Milky Way stretches across the night sky in all its glory is still one of the most amazing sights Guangchou has to offer. Take Mai, a telescope, some of our older kids if they're up for it and some bodyguards for a late night hike up a mountain to take in the sights, maybe show them exactly why we are so entranced with the idea of going to space.
--[X] Personal Action: The family tree; Looking past our father: We don't know anything about our extended family, or Wei Mai's. Do we have any cousins, or even aunts/uncles? What about our in-laws? We have eight tiny terrors that I'm sure our family would love to meet and spoil rotten!
--[X] Lover Action: Education is more than classrooms: Wei Mai is highly trained, incredibly fit, and outdoorsy. Who better to champion a movement to create local Young Pioneer troops? The "Michelle Obama" approach, lead by example and tv appearances, make something worthy of our kids joining when they get older. (Plus, she gets experience wrangling groups of tweens that will definitely come in handy later)

[X] Commiewood: Pioneers
A soft sci-fi comedy set in a post-revolution world where Communism is global and automated to the point where a job is a want rather than a need, the final frontier to be explored is space. But look away from those big names, the famous Pioneers charting the wonders of the universe and spearheading the expansion of Communism from the Captain's chair; here's the hijinks of a bunch of low-rank nobodies, who secure in their knowledge that the machines can take over their duties whenever they don't feel like doing them, become the worst nightmare of superior officers anywhere: bored soldiers.

Two parts comedy, one part propaganda meant to slip through censors easier by satirizing the post-revolution world in government-approved ways (such as poking fun at Guangchou's habit of excessively verbose names) in order to spread what the actual goal of Communism is to areas that before would only have learned from Red-Scare propaganda, and topped of with a dash of military kickbacks by making the Explorer corps an explicitly military organization, implying that even in a post-revolution world with no war the military will still have a place. Unlike many other soft sci-fi shows, it intentionally does not contain alien societies or artificial intelligence to avoid distracting from the ideal post-revolution world and the question of AI slavery with all the automation respectively.

TL;DR Bored soldiers, the slice-of-life sci-fi anime.
 
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Eh, the first thing I think looking at that is: "How far does that joint actually allow the wheels to turn, and how far can they turn in the first place before they start rubbing against the chain?" I feel like this is another case of what works for bikes might not work as well on cars, since motorcycles and bicycles can also lean into their turns while 4 wheel cars can't (usually).

Well with voting open now I'm going to stick with my plan for the airfields this turn, because completely separate to my misgivings about the skateboards steering system, I'd rather try to have the airfields on line for the big meetup so we can fly as many planes as possible and make our big parade even bigger (and hopefully more effective on the Chinese and Soviet delegations). The Skateboard on the other hand isn't even a vehicle by itself, just the base for one so I don't think we'll be able to show it off as much as we could with our new air force. And we aren't actually making any vehicles with it right now so everything produced is likely just going to sit in a warehouse gathering dust for now.

Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more a shaft drive looks preferable to a chain drive.

The shakeboard is absolutely meant to be a vehicle? @HeroCooky, is the Skateboard a set of finished vehicles or do we have to design them separately? I was under the impression it was the former, and that we could have some ready for the Army in time for the parade.
 
@HeroCooky, is the Skateboard a set of finished vehicles or do we have to design them separately? I was under the impression it was the former, and that we could have some ready for the Army in time for the parade.
I interpreted the write-in as a basis for which you basically applied all new logisitical vehicles onto unless specified otherwise. So more like: "Hey, new design, make truck/fueler/transport from that," rather than: "One New Vehicle."
 
I interpreted the write-in as a basis for which you basically applied all new logisitical vehicles onto unless specified otherwise. So more like: "Hey, new design, make truck/fueler/transport from that," rather than: "One New Vehicle."

Ah, so we'd need another action to actually design our logistics vehicles? Edit: Or... can we go straight to manufacturing the new vehicles?
 
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Yes, but also yes.

You can start production of a basic Truck Skateboard now, and also make new desings with it.
Would it take more than 4 actions to produce a new design using it right now? Since we don't actually have the Skateboard designed yet, so we're looking at:
Actions 1-3: Design Skateboard
Action 4: Design vehicle using a Skateboard
Action 5: Construct factory producing vehicle using a Skateboard

Is this right?
 
[X] Plan: Red Star Rising
[X] Commiewood: Universal War

As much as I like that the other plan uses both personal actions, I definitely prefer Farmer's Councils to be done this turn.
 
Voting is open
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