Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

[Dreikanter]

I suggest that we defer a decision on Bohemia until after the war. Annexing them now rather than later doesn't actually benefit us in any way, nor does it benefit the Czechs. Respect the diplomatic niceties for now: it won't cost anything.

As for plans, I'm inclined to stay on the defensive. If here is where the enemy starts to get desperate, then it would be good to stay on our toes.

 

[BoredStudent1414]

I suggest that we defer a decision on Bohemia until after the war. Annexing them now rather than later doesn't actually benefit us in any way, nor does it benefit the Czechs. Respect the diplomatic niceties for now: it won't cost anything.

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I agree. We should maintain our diplomatic reputation with the western Entente powers until the Imperial League is defeated and the Habsburg Empire has collapsed.

 

[Zimmerwald1915]

I agree. We should maintain our diplomatic reputation with the western Entente powers until the Imperial League is defeated and the Habsburg Empire has collapsed.

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We took the position we did in Scandinavia for the sake of a free hand in the East, now when we have the democratic mandate of the people of Bohemia-Moravia is the time to exercise it.

 

[Nyvis]

I suggest that we defer a decision on Bohemia until after the war. Annexing them now rather than later doesn't actually benefit us in any way, nor does it benefit the Czechs. Respect the diplomatic niceties for now: it won't cost anything.

As for plans, I'm inclined to stay on the defensive. If here is where the enemy starts to get desperate, then it would be good to stay on our toes.

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Revolutionary enthusiasm should be encouraged, not spurned.

Also, unlike Scandinavia, Austria isn't willing to negotiate and we want to keep going, so they'd have to wait for the end of the whole war, not for a side treaty.

 

[Anchises]

[] Plan: The Gates of Hungary
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

I disagree that an attack on Vienna is desirable in our current situation. To me it seems quite obvious we don't have the troops for that without reinforcements from Poland which is undesirable because of the impending Russian offensive. Pressburg is an achievable target and will allow us to push into the Hungarian Plain linking up with our allies when (if) they breakthrough the Alpine defences.

 

[Nerdorama]

[] Plan: The Gates of Hungary
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

I disagree that an attack on Vienna is desirable into our current situation. To me it seems quite obvious we don't have the troops for that without reinforcements from Poland which is undesirable because of the impending Russian offensive. Pressburg is an achievable target and will allow us to push into the Hungarian Plain linking up with our allies when (if) they breakthrough the Alpine defences.

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Austria's handing rifles - those that they have because they've lost the ability to replace them - to old men and boys while we're still fully equipped with trained troops. That's only going to become less true as we lose men to attrition to Russia, and now is the perfect time to make a knockout blow to Vienna so we can concentrate troops against the Russians next year.

 

[Oxford]

[] Plan: Long Promised Vienna by Christmas
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

 

[spiritualatheist]

The idea that were totally incapable of taking Vienna is frankly implausible to me. Our numerical disadvantage in the theater is a bare 310,000 soldiers at this point. If we're talking actually trained troops, we outnumber the austrians by almost a million, and that leaves out our troops substantial qualitative advantage. Even worse for them, they can't actually keep that army supplied while we hold Lvov. It's literally described as a shadow of itself in the update! Vienna's defences are going to even the odds a bit, and we can expect attacking Vienna to involve relatively heavy casualties, but frankly taking Vienna is going to knock them out of the war entirely. The best way to reduce our casualties in Austria is to win as hard as we can now, not spend multiple turns going after secondary objectives while the big prize is right in front of us.

There is also something to be said about the entente. While they aren't going to intervene immediately, it seems likely to me that accepting Bohemia's annexation is going to start the countdown to them getting involved. This will still be a multiturn process, of course, but it drives home that we need to win now, even at the cost of heavy casualties for a turn. A victory in Vienna means we can leave the Italians to mop up Hungary and Slovenia, while we turn our full attention to ripping chunks out of the Russians for as long as we can.

Anyway, all of this is a long-winded way to say I support Plan: Shield and Dagger.

[]Case Shield and Dagger
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

 

[Oxford]

If we don't attack Vienna I stg lol

 

[Nyvis]

[] Plan: The Gates of Hungary
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

I disagree that an attack on Vienna is desirable in our current situation. To me it seems quite obvious we don't have the troops for that without reinforcements from Poland which is undesirable because of the impending Russian offensive. Pressburg is an achievable target and will allow us to push into the Hungarian Plain linking up with our allies when (if) they breakthrough the Alpine defences.

Click to shrink...

No Italian full offensive without a matching full offensive on our part to draw Austria's attention away from the Alps, please.

Continuing to encircle Vienna is great, though I think this plan could also afford to do Konigsberg (we're allowed 3 actions with a malus to all, which would be worrying if we were going for Vienna but fine for Pressburg and I think the Russian defenses will also hold).

I'll just do my own.

[] Plan: Circle Around
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
[] Ask the Allies to put pressure on the League.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.

Russia will push to take back Lvov, so Konigsberg should be lightly defended, and the fleet can assist. Meanwhile, Austria has invested their forces into defending Vienna, and we can sever the city from Hungarian supplies. We make quick gains where they aren't, while strengthening our defenses where they're likely to hit. I also removed the hit on the Dalmatian coast since that's best left for the strike on Vienna.

 

[camloste]

defence in poland and full assault on vienna and the alps seems the most prudent course to me. austria is already crumbling.

 

[spiritualatheist]

No Italian full offensive without a matching full offensive on our part to draw Austria's attention away from the Alps, please.

Continuing to encircle Vienna is great, though I think this plan could also afford to do Konigsberg (we're allowed 3 actions with a malus to all, which would be worrying if we were going for Vienna but fine for Pressburg and I think the Russian defenses will also hold).

I'll just do my own.

[] Plan: Circle Around
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Pressburg (Orange).
[] Ask the Allies to put pressure on the League.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.

Russia will push to take back Lvov, so Konigsberg should be lightly defended, and the fleet can assist. Meanwhile, Austria has invested their forces into defending Vienna, and we can sever the city from Hungarian supplies. We make quick gains where they aren't, while strengthening our defenses where they're likely to hit. I also removed the hit on the Dalmatian coast since that's best left for the strike on Vienna.

Click to shrink...

Pressburg is in the Carpathians and is specifically called out as heavily defended. I think it's a mistake to think we can waltz in there while we're degrading our effectiveness. That plan also leaves the Italians bottled up for another two turns at least since having them attack in winter is folly.

 

[SilentSpaniard]

There's something else we should consider:

[] [BOHEMIA] Accept the request.
Bohemia-Moravia will be integrated as part of the German Republic, subject to reconstruction efforts as determined by the National Assembly, with ironclad guarantees for its Czech citizens' cultural and ethnic autonomy. This will be viewed with some concern internationally and will infuriate the Austrians.

Now, imagine you're an Imperial Austrian... The dreaded Republicans are already annexing parts of the Empire. You're surrounded; the enemy is going to attack everywhere at the same time, with a focus on your capital. The situation is desperate, there's no hope for victory... Everything is already lost, to those infuriating honorless curs. But even if you can't win, you can sure as hell make their life miserable.

Just saying, maybe we should defeat the Austrians as soon as possible; before the Imperials start dealing with as many Republican sympathisers as they can, permanently.

 

[01paradox01]

I mean, do we need to accept Bohemia's request for annexation now? I don't see the rush when it comes to them. We could literally just wait for the peace deal to do it without incurring the International relations penalty.

 

[spiritualatheist]

I mean, do we need to accept Bohemia's request for annexation now? I don't see the rush when it comes to them. We could literally just wait for the peace deal to do it without incurring the International relations penalty.

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We absolutely should accept it now. Revolutionary elation should be rewarded, and there's no guarantee they vote for annexation again if we leave them to their own devices.

It also signals our intention to dismember Austria to the people trapped in the Prison of Nations. I think accepting makes it much more likely that we see a Slovenian uprising or the Balkans going after Bulgaria, both things that we want.

 

[01paradox01]

We absolutely should accept it now. Revolutionary elation should be rewarded, and there's no guarantee they vote for annexation again if we leave them to their own devices.

It also signals our intention to dismember Austria to the people trapped in the Prison of Nations. I think accepting makes it much more likely that we see a Slovenian uprising or the Balkans going after Bulgaria, both things that we want.

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Uh, if they voted a second time and refuse annexation, I think that speaks more of the indiscrepencies of the first, more rushed vote. As for your second point, it's extremely nebulous, to be honest. You don't know if this annexation of Bohemia will do what you say it will, and I'd rather not take your word for it.

edit: I'd also like to ask, but from where did we gather these representatives for the Annexation vote? This just seems very suspect in my eyes, now that I think about it. Did the bohemians just somehow arrange for a general election on the spot while they were occupied during a war?

 

[notbirdofprey]

All of Bohemia has been under occupation for about three to six months. That's a decent enough time to organize an election. Especially when there's is a pre-existing republican movement in the area.

 

[Andrensath]

edit: I'd also like to ask, but from where did we gather these representatives for the Annexation vote? This just seems very suspect in my eyes, now that I think about it. Did the bohemians just somehow arrange for a general election on the spot while they were occupied during a war?

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Yes. That is literally what they did.

In liberated Prague, following a free and fair (albeit somewhat rushed) national election with the tacit approval of occupation forces, Czech and German delegates gather ... The Prague Assembly issues its first diplomatic communique: a request for annexation by the German Republic, provided that they receive guarantees that the promotion of Czech culture and national identity within the Republic will not be infringed.

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[spiritualatheist]

Uh, if they voted a second time and refuse annexation, I think that speaks more of the indiscrepencies of the first, more rushed vote. As for your second point, it's extremely nebulous, to be honest. You don't know if this annexation of Bohemia will do what you say it will, and I'd rather not take your word for it.

edit: I'd also like to ask, but from where did we gather these representatives for the Annexation vote? This just seems very suspect in my eyes, now that I think about it. Did the bohemians just somehow arrange for a general election on the spot while they were occupied during a war?

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Etranger specifically called it a free and fair election in the vote post.

I also think that it's blatantly obvious that accepting the democratic decisions of the minorities of the Empire and—most importantly—guaranteeing their rights is going to be intensely attractive to various revolutionary groups. It establishes out revolutionary cred in a way waiting can't.

 

[01paradox01]

Etranger specifically called it a free and fair election in the vote post.

I also think that it's blatantly obvious that accepting the democratic decisions of the minorities of the Empire and—most importantly—guaranteeing their rights is going to be intensely attractive to various revolutionary groups.

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We're looking at this from Germany's perspective, correct? We aren't some unbiased paragon of virtue here, so of course we'd think it'd be 'free and fair' because it's in our interest for the vote to succeed. I'm not too interested in arguing over the point, but suffice to say, I don't see a reason not to just wait for the peace deal, besides the very uncertain ones you provided.

 

[TheArcanist]

We're looking at this from Germany's perspective, correct? We aren't some unbiased paragon of virtue here, so of course we'd think it'd be 'free and fair' because it's in our interest for the vote to succeed.

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I think it's very uncharitable to assume that the QM would outright deceive us like that, especially when there's little to no precedent for that in the quest.

 

[darknessworld]

We're looking at this from Germany's perspective, correct? We aren't some unbiased paragon of virtue here, so of course we'd think it'd be 'free and fair' because it's in our interest for the vote to succeed.

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Not really. Otherwise the annexation would have been a fait accompli without even a vote.

I think they really like how much Germany is winning, so they want a direct in.

 

[01paradox01]

If you have literally any textual evidence to support this, please post it before accusing the QM of lying to us.

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And now you're blowing it out of proportion. I am not 'accusing' the QM of 'lying' here, nor am I trying to somehow insult anyone by saying what i'm saying. I'm also somewhat irked by your tone here. I'm literally just trying to bring some perspective here. Etranger is free to make things clear.I would really appreciate it.

 

[Nyvis]

Pressburg is in the Carpathians and is specifically called out as heavily defended. I think it's a mistake to think we can waltz in there while we're degrading our effectiveness. That plan also leaves the Italians bottled up for another two turns at least since having them attack in winter is folly.

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Fair point about Pressburg being defensible, though I wonder how many troops they have left to do that with.

Back on Vienna + Defend Poland (+ optional Konigsberg) then.

 

[spiritualatheist]

And now you're blowing it out of proportion. I am not 'accusing' the QM of 'lying' here, nor am I trying to somehow insult anyone by saying what i'm saying. I'm literally just trying to bring some perspective here. Etranger is free to make things clear, and I would appreciate it.

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Yeah, I apologize. My tone came off as more hostile than I intended it to and I have deleted the post.

That said, I do think that this isn't that kind of quest. Organizing general elections only takes years in places as dysfunctional as America, lol.