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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[]Case Shield and Dagger
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
I wonder if they'll try to pressure Romania to join the war as a way of opening new supply lines. Could promise them part of Transylvania maybe? I don't know how interested Romania was in that land at this point in time.
 
Nervos Belli said:
I wonder if they'll try to pressure Romania to join the war as a way of opening new supply lines. Could promise them part of Transylvania maybe? I don't know how interested Romania was in that land at this point in time.
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I don't think we should do this kind of disposing of land to non revolutionary powers unless we really have to.
 
DracoDracul said:
[] Accept the request.
It's both the moral thing to do and likely to stir resistance groups in the Empire

[]Case Shield and Dagger
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

We need to keep their lines divided and because we're out numbered in the Russian front forcing them to attack us will be far more exhausting to to them. Additionally the focus should be on cutting the heart out of the Empire.
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This plan has my full support.
 
If Vienna is attacked in force from literally all directions north of the city, the Austrians are gonna commit all their reserves to the battle and protecting the city, Hispano-Italians be damned. Do you think they'll try to protect the Alps or prevent the beating heart of their empire from falling?
 
Once we get the land where the former rump German monarchy used to be we will have completed what our founding fathers wanted a United Germany we will finally have ALL of Germany under us
 
Haruhi is Waifu said:
If Vienna is attacked in force from literally all directions north of the city, the Austrians are gonna commit all their reserves to the battle and protecting the city, Hispano-Italians be damned. Do you think they'll try to protect the Alps or prevent the beating heart of their empire from falling?
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also if an Italian army breaks through the Alps while fighting is going on around Vienna you can bet your bottom dollar that the Balkan states will immediately become a capital-P Problem, after which point the entire imperial project of the Habsburgs will start to unravel.
 
Nyvis said:
I'm going to second this.

The update makes it very obvious Russia is going to try a desperate attack to get its connection to Austria back. We want to be ready for it. Konigsberg might be okay as it's a short push and tightens our line but I'm afraid their offensive will be in the south and that's where our forces should be too.
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Agreed in every respect. The aim of a Russian counterattack would necessarily be to reopen the supply lines to Austria, and that can only be done through Galicia.
 
Haruhi is Waifu said:
If Vienna is attacked in force from literally all directions north of the city, the Austrians are gonna commit all their reserves to the battle and protecting the city, Hispano-Italians be damned. Do you think they'll try to protect the Alps or prevent the beating heart of their empire from falling?
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Agreed. On top of that, a German offensive on Klagenfurt without attacking Vienna at the same time risks the German side getting pincered by the Imperial forces in & around Vienna. IMO we couldn't afford a dual Vienna-Klagenfurt offensive without giving back Lviv to the inevitable Imperial offensive seeking to retake it.

Nyvis said:
I don't think we should do this kind of disposing of land to non revolutionary powers unless we really have to.
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Yep. I kinda hope the Romanians overthrows their hated Habsburg monarch once the Quadruple (well, Triple atm) Monarchy really starts dissolving, thereby easing that decision rather than forcing us to cleave off a separate republican Transylvania. Either way, the Hungarian Szekelyland enclave would need guarantees for autonomy like what Bohemia demands of us as condition for integration.

This hopium is backed by IRA doing revolutionary actions independent of Alliance countries (pls have a notable impact in Romania too)

Anyways, just in case I'm reformatting @DracoDracul 's plan name for easy voting

[] Plan: Case Shield and Dagger
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
When it comes to the war with the entente, I think it would be funny if we force them to be the agressor. Just don't attack france yo, if King Leopold gets up to shit invade belguim and set it and the congo up as a sister republic. But don't use it to get to france. Then they can die on our machine guns and barbed wire trenches for the right of some asshole to do atrocities and slowly radicalize until we win by french revolution.
 
[]: Operation Alps
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Klagenfurt (Purple)
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[] Plan: Case Shield and Dagger
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
i think that annexing the bohemians now is a costly option in terms of our international outlook. giving them time to reconsider could see them choose to be independent however and that is not something that is a preferred outcome.

i think ill end up voting for annexation but we should make it extremely clear that this is an exception and that we are only doing so at their request, that we intend to liberate countries not put them under new management. maybe we could include a temporary provision to revert annexation for like the next 10 years and if they still agree then they stay a part of germany.

war wise i think our options are really simple. defense against russia, and force capitulation on the austrians while agitating for rebellions all along the hungarian, croat, bosian etc minorities. im iffy on doing more than 2 movements though. the russians are about to punch back HARD because this next turn will determine if they fight alone for the rest of the war. i will not be surprised if we lose some not inconsiderable ammount of territory (their losses will be horrendous though)

sidenote, to the people that say we will capitulate Russia, what drugs are you on? id like some ;). honestly though, russia is massive and wont give up till we hit the urals, we dont need the expense of that campaign especially with the allies at our back ready to pounce. we just cap austria, smash the remaining russian bits of poland and call them to the table. if they refuse we push for a security cordon and we stop there. anything else that comes after(baltics Belorussia, Ukraine) are not strategically feasible . we will liberate them by giving them weapons and using them as a pretext for the next war.
 
iceman66 said:
sidenote, to the people that say we will capitulate Russia, what drugs are you on? id like some ;). honestly though, russia is massive and wont give up till we hit the urals, we dont need the expense of that campaign especially with the allies at our back ready to pounce. we just cap austria, smash the remaining russian bits of poland and call them to the table. if they refuse we push for a security cordon and we stop there. anything else that comes after(baltics Belorussia, Ukraine) are not strategically feasible . we will liberate them by giving them weapons and using them as a pretext for the next war.
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While a full capitulation of Russia will definitely be a tall order, moreover something the Entente cannot and will not allow, and as such not something I expect to win this war, it is also not something that will take pushing them back "to the Urals." This is sometimes brought up, but is basically an ahistorical projection of the capabilities and position of the Soviet Union in WW2 to Russia in vastly different circumstances. The Soviet Union in WW2 was heavily industrialized and politically centralized under Stalin and various Party/security apparatuses, the Russian Empire is much less industrialized and institutionalized, making it much more fragile. Further, WW2 was a war of annihilation, victory for Nazi Germany meant genocide for the Slavic and Jewish population of the Soviet Union. All of these factors make it a war fought to a much more bitter conclusion.

By comparison, see WW1, where the Russian Empire collapsed politically and economically after less than two and a half years of fighting, and then the Provisional government limped on for the reminder of 1917, before the Germans finally forced Brest-Litovsk on the Bolsheviks. All without taking St. Petersburg/Petrograd or Moscow, let alone reaching the Urals.

Again, I don't expect this to happen in this war, but expecting the Russian Empire to fight us bitterly to the Urals is more fantastical than expecting them to crumble after we take Poland and the Baltics (which etranger has said contains about 70% of Russia's industry in quest).
 
Aedan777 said:
Again, I don't expect this to happen in this war, but expecting the Russian Empire to fight us bitterly to the Urals is more fantastical than expecting them to crumble after we take Poland and the Baltics (which etranger has said contains about 70% of Russia's industry in quest).
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To elaborate on this, the areas of western Russian holdings that are colored pink in this map collectively constitute 70% of Russia's existent industrial capacity.


What's more is that due to the fundamental political structure of the Russian Empire and its agrarian aristocracy, it would be exceptionally difficult for them to manage the social reforms needed to permit industrialization within Russia proper without suffering severe societal stresses and ruptures in some area.
 
[] Plan: Long Promised Vienna by Christmas
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

An updated version of my plan. This utilizes three military maneuver actions, which means they'll have reduced efficiency, but I think the risk is not substantial. We have a qualitative advantage, which will still stand largely intact even with some logistical strain. The advance towards Konigsberg will be supported by our Baltic fleet, improving its effectiveness. With the Russians preparing for an offensive against Galicia they might also be weakening defenses in Prussia as well.

On the other end, a full offensive by our allies will restrict Vienna from being reinforced, and if any troops are diverted to the Dalmatian coast, then the odds of success against either real target are notably increased. With Vienna flanked and under attack from two angles, the circumstances are favorable enough I think we can succeed even with some reduced efficiency.

Finally there's preparing the defenses in Poland, to respond to the Galician offensive we know is coming. Since this is a defensive action it might put less overall strain on our logistics than a third offensive military maneuver. With this and our known defensive capabilities against Russian offensives, I think we have good odds of holding Galicia and leaving our enemies divided.

Now this plan has risks with the reduced efficiency, so there is a case to be made for removing the attack on Konigsberg. On its own it's not a decisive move. But Russia is already struggling with replacing its equipment and Prussia makes up a notable portion of Russia's remaining industry, and is on the path to much of its remainder in the Baltics. This will ensure Russia's even weaker come next turn, letting us push further into the Baltics.
 
Aedan777 said:
[] Plan: Long Promised Vienna by Christmas
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Konigsberg (Gold).
-[] Strengthen defensive positions in Poland.
-[] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Pink).
-[] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

An updated version of my plan. This utilizes three military maneuver actions, which means they'll have reduced efficiency, but I think the risk is not substantial. We have a qualitative advantage, which will still stand largely intact even with some logistical strain. The advance towards Konigsberg will be supported by our Baltic fleet, improving its effectiveness. With the Russians preparing for an offensive against Galicia they might also be weakening defenses in Prussia as well.

On the other end, a full offensive by our allies will restrict Vienna from being reinforced, and if any troops are diverted to the Dalmatian coast, then the odds of success against either real target are notably increased. With Vienna flanked and under attack from two angles, the circumstances are favorable enough I think we can succeed even with some reduced efficiency.

Finally there's preparing the defenses in Poland, to respond to the Galician offensive we know is coming. Since this is a defensive action it might put less overall strain on our logistics than a third offensive military maneuver. With this and our known defensive capabilities against Russian offensives, I think we have good odds of holding Galicia and leaving our enemies divided.

Now this plan has risks with the reduced efficiency, so there is a case to be made for removing the attack on Konigsberg. On its own it's not a decisive move. But Russia is already struggling with replacing its equipment and Prussia makes up a notable portion of Russia's remaining industry, and is on the path to much of its remainder in the Baltics. This will ensure Russia's even weaker come next turn, letting us push further into the Baltics.
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Is Konigsberg this turn really worth weakening the offensive on Vienna? I think the weakened defense action is still better than no defense action but I think we'll need all the help we can get to crack Vienna. I don't hate this plan but I'll vote for the one with only defense and Vienna over it.

This is assuming the triple action weakens all actions rather than just the ones on the same front.
 
Nyvis said:
Is Konigsberg this turn really worth weakening the offensive on Vienna? I think the weakened defense action is still better than no defense action but I think we'll need all the help we can get to crack Vienna. I don't hate this plan but I'll vote for the one with only defense and Vienna over it.

This is assuming the triple action weakens all actions rather than just the ones on the same front.
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A decent variation might be switching out konigsberg for a offensive on klagenfort, since I suspect whatever reduced efficiency in the Vienna attack would be made up for by the alliance army in the alps having a easier time breaking through and being able to more quickly reinforce us at Vienna.
 
Sara said:
A decent variation might be switching out konigsberg for a offensive on klagenfort, since I suspect whatever reduced efficiency in the Vienna attack would be made up for by the alliance army in the alps having a easier time breaking through and being able to more quickly reinforce us at Vienna.
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I think either option is a mistake. For Klagenfurt, I honestly think the Alps don't need the help at this point. The Italians have been shelling them for fully 3 quarters of a year now, and each turn has further degraded the effectiveness of the Austrian fortification.s Plus, the threat to the Dalmatian coast is going to give them a fully 2:1 advantage on the front.

Couple that with the attacker's ability to choose their point of attack and I think they can absolutely break through just fine on their own.

Meanwhile, we need to end the war as fast as possible, and that means hitting Vienna with the largest, most effective attack we have while also holding Lvov, which rules out Konigsberg. As long as we can hold Lvov, we will inevitably win in Austria, and I really think weakening it is a mistake.
 
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Aedan777 said:
While a full capitulation of Russia will definitely be a tall order, moreover something the Entente cannot and will not allow, and as such not something I expect to win this war, it is also not something that will take pushing them back "to the Urals." This is sometimes brought up, but is basically an ahistorical projection of the capabilities and position of the Soviet Union in WW2 to Russia in vastly different circumstances. The Soviet Union in WW2 was heavily industrialized and politically centralized under Stalin and various Party/security apparatuses, the Russian Empire is much less industrialized and institutionalized, making it much more fragile. Further, WW2 was a war of annihilation, victory for Nazi Germany meant genocide for the Slavic and Jewish population of the Soviet Union. All of these factors make it a war fought to a much more bitter conclusion.

By comparison, see WW1, where the Russian Empire collapsed politically and economically after less than two and a half years of fighting, and then the Provisional government limped on for the reminder of 1917, before the Germans finally forced Brest-Litovsk on the Bolsheviks. All without taking St. Petersburg/Petrograd or Moscow, let alone reaching the Urals.

Again, I don't expect this to happen in this war, but expecting the Russian Empire to fight us bitterly to the Urals is more fantastical than expecting them to crumble after we take Poland and the Baltics (which etranger has said contains about 70% of Russia's industry in quest).
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while i agree that the russian empire was defeated more easily than the soviets would have, id like to remind you that any total capitulation to our faction is in a sense a war of existance(we are the commies who go bump in the night after all). in terms of fighting capacity, the russian civil war was kickstarted right around the end of russian involvement in ww1, but that lasted quite a while and did in fact need to be fought off past the urals. while i think we could effectively capitulate the russians as a strong force much earlier, i dont think they would surrender to our terms, in fact they'd continue fighting us for way longer than is reasonable to expect. thats why i propose the idea of a security cordon which is just a garrison order to prevent cossack style raids( which would be very much in line woth russian tactics at the time.)
 
The Tsar doesn't actually get to say that it's existential, because the reason Stalin had even opponents of the Soviet Union lining up is that the Nazis wanted to murder EVERYONE.

And in no way does 1898 Russia have the propaganda capacity or chops to convince a bunch of peasants that actually they'll all be killed if they don't fight to the last against the Hunnish Invader, even if they no doubt have little cause to trust us (armed missionaries that we are.)
 
The Laurent said:
And in no way does 1898 Russia have the propaganda capacity or chops to convince a bunch of peasants that actually they'll all be killed if they don't fight to the last against the Hunnish Invader, even if they no doubt have little cause to trust us (armed missionaries that we are.)
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They might if it were true.

Which, y'know, it's not, which is kind of a big problem for them :V
 
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