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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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So! Been thinking about Turn 11 again.

I'm going to assume the Warmachine is like Trollslayer pt 2 in terms of action count, since even though its bigger Snorri isn't going to be the guy building it primarily and he's got a specialty in Engineering Runes which might help. So, assuming we can do it in 1 action. Also assuming no daemons, and this is the context I'm operating on when I was talking earlier about being okay with putting 3 research actions in on turn 11. We could then put the other three into researching whatever people want.

A variant also assuming no daemons is if we want we could the Warmachine in 2 actions without mucking around with too much, except our research a little. If we still hold the assumption that we can do Warmachine in 1 action then that'd be 3x overflow. Pretty powerful, especially with Snorri's engineering specialty.

If it does take two actions that'd be unfortunate. Basically two options there, either get it done that turn with overflow or get it done over the next two turns. Depends a bit I think on what it looks like out there.


Assuming there are daemons next turn, then next turn finishing the Warmachine is pretty necessary, along with the Banner. And in that case Daemonward might be best to use so that the Throng we just got done putting Runes on can benefit from the same benefits Snorri does, and its known what Daemonward does as opposed to a Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungni and Rune of Grimnir combo. Still assuming we can do the Warmachine in 1 turn. I am also going to assume the Banner takes one action for pt 2 to do, in which case putting two actions on pt 1 will complete both parts with one action of overflow at the end. We could then put the remaining action on doing the Warmachine with overflow, ending up with two base actions on Warmachine and two base actions on the Banner.

A variant is that assuming we do get daemons next turn, then we should probably still finish the Warmachine and Banner with one and two base actions respectively. That leaves the last action free to do something. Research is a good bet, and so is picking up another Request of some variety like Repairing whatever the daemons break.
 
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If it does take two actions that'd be unfortunate. Basically two options there, either get it done that turn with overflow or get it done over the next two turns. Depends a bit I think on what it looks like out there

It's brought up that Snorri and the other dwarf don't want it to take decades like the last project he worked on. I'd honestly prefer to use as many actions as it takes to get it done the turn it's available, if it's 2 actions we get a productivity boost right? Going above and beyond seems good recompense for taking so long on the previous order.
 
It's brought up that Snorri and the other dwarf don't want it to take decades like the last project he worked on. I'd honestly prefer to use as many actions as it takes to get it done the turn it's available, if it's 2 actions we get a productivity boost right? Going above and beyond seems good recompense for taking so long on the previous order.
Yeah if its two actions we get a proc of Productivity, and I figured the thread would want it done quick so there's some significant weight to the "do it with two actions" side of the part you quoted.
 
Turn 11:
The traders bring grim news from the east, a great horde of daemons came down upon Karak Vlag. Only now, four years after the hold was besieged has the horde been driven off which would be a cause for celebration had Vlag not lost an entire layer of its outer defences to lay the daemons low. While the loss of such a scale isn't ruinous to the Desolation Hold, for its defences are manyfold and its inhabitants productive, it certainly has forced King Yarri to divert an appreciable number of his masons towards rebuilding the fallen walls and towers instead of working on the connection to the Ungdrin. It does little to slow your own home's progress, but it has led to the mountain passes being more dangerous for the caravans.

You've no doubt that King Ironarm will be keeping such things in mind, or well he would have were you not also suffering monster attacks of your own. The timing was poor, news of a great migration of trolls headed straight for Kraka Drakk forcing King Otrek and his throng to pull back from what you were told was a very successful campaign near Kraka Dorden.

They arrived only days before the horde was about to burst through the mountain pass that connected Kraka Drak to Ravnsvake and the rest of the Southern holds when Brokk's rangers reported something odd happening to the horde.

You would not learn until after, but the Greedy Troll leading the horde had been killed, its torn apart body found in pieces to the northwest of the pass. Leaving the horde leaderless and without further command.

It was a bit of quick thinking on Brokk's part to cause an avalanche while the majority of the beasts were still trundling through the pass, inertia keeping them moving despite their leader's death, and burying most of them under tonnes of ice and snow. The stragglers not caught and the living trolls still buried were picked off by a jubilant throng. Only over the coming weeks would the aforementioned leader's fate be discovered by Brokk himself.

"Looked like the damn thing was ripped apart by the biggest set of talon's I've seen. The body was torn in half with its head crushed underfoot. Patterns in the snow make me think its either a particularly small dragon or a very big chimaera," you remember hearing Brokk say during today's meeting.

Curious, but it was out of your hands, so you can do nothing more than wish Brokk well in his search for the culprit.

…​

You sniff at the creation currently on Dolgi's desk. A modified crossbow inscribed with the Rune of Cleaving, Speed and form of the Rune of Accuracy burning on its surface.

"Hmmph, not a Rune of Penetration?" you cast a glance his way, eyes narrowed.

"Not confident enough in my abilities Master," Dolgi replies, head bowed.

You sniff hard,"Well, if this mess is what you consider acceptable I dare not look at whatever pickaxe scratch you think a bad Rune looks like beardling. Preparing for your journey already are you?"

"Practicing for the final pieces of equipment I'll bring with me, yes Master," Dolgi confirms.

"Carry on then lad, you've got a few more decades to go before I even think about letting you out of this Workshop and telling the world you're my apprentice!"

"Yes master!" Dolgi shouts as you leave his room, shutting the door behind you.

As you walk down the hall, you stop and give Fjolla the same treatment and give her life-saving advice, though she may not know it yet. You leave her room slightly less disappointed, only by a hair's width really, but enough to be worth commenting on. Runework like that wouldn't save her from some beastie with more muscle than brain deciding to chow down on her. You wouldn't send them out if this was the kind of skill they had right now.

Bah!

The Journeyman's trials were always the greatest gamble for any master. Ignoring the obvious potential risk of death, no matter how well trained they could be, a beardling sometimes just didn't manage to get it into their head that they weren't done learning. You knew many masters who lost at least one apprentice to that particular bit of madness, and to your quiet sorrow, knew many more whose apprentices ended up dead by some twist of fate or improper care.

You'd somehow, thank the ancestors, not yet lost a single apprentice to either fate, but knew all too well that your luck wouldn't last. You were only a spry six and a half centuries old after all, time was on fate's side sadly.

In your gut you knew, that no matter how well you prepared them, you couldn't coddle these two forever. Snerra at least, you had a good half-century to train, and at the rate she was growing she'd admittedly have better odds, but that wouldn't stop you from being just as critical as you were with Dolgi and Fjolla of course.

A prodigy just meant you could cram more into their thick skulls before you sent them off.

Two decades before they'd be ready at their current pace, longer if they didn't, but you knew you'd likely let them go before they'd turn 200. Hopefully to see them return in a few decades, ready to be tested and pass as masters, complete their education, and become true Runesmiths.

You eye the sky and see it is still clear. Though you cannot help but feel as if the air is tingling just a bit.

…​

That same night, after you dismissed your apprentices, you make your way into the hold and sit quietly at the bar you don't frequent. Right now you're listening to a group of dwarfs banter with each other behind you, unaware of your presence.

Much of what they talk about is useless, obvious because they were beardlings barely into their second century, but you manage to pick out a few gems from the muck. Work in the Ungdrin continues apace and there's talk of fortifications being built at the grand station that serves as the entrance to the underground highway in a few decades. Couldn't ignore an indirect command from Grimnir himself after all.

Well, well, well.

You suppose you could leave it to the King to square away, but you'd already done so much. What's another series of defences really? Ah well, you were decades away from having to worry about the issue, and more importantly, you see your target.

Dolgi and Klorah enter the building, both dressed rather nicely. The latter's arm tucked neatly into the formers, Dolgi is quietly smiling as his significant other talks about her day.

In your hand, the gravel weighs heavily.

You remember being dressed in your finest clothes. On the one free night of the week, you'd taken her out to the finest bar you could afford. A fine meal and good ale before dropping her off at her parents' home sounding like a grand idea.

You remember Master Yorri appearing from a table behind you, you remember
the tongue's sickening thud as it crashed against your face.

While centuries later you can laugh at the memory, for a good week you remember being overly paranoid about every hooded individual you met, double-checking every dark corner, and seating yourself so that you had a clear view of the entire bar whenever you went for a drink.

Nowhere was safe.


Your eyes narrow, the conundrum weighing heavily on you. On one hand, the lesson needed to be taught, on the other you certainly wished that your outing hadn't ended with a red mark on your cheek that came from a troll tongue.

A compromise then.

You sit there for hours drinking quietly, waiting for Dolgi and Klorah to finish their dinner date. Quietly, you follow Dolgi as he escorts Klorah home, making quick detours to hit both Snerra and Fjolla. The former inside a bakery ordering some late-night stonebread and the latter in the middle of a drinking competition surprisingly. Despite the time spent, you reach Klorah's home before the two lovebirds, a quick mental calculation tells you that you have only two minutes to prepare.

Plenty of time.

…​

You watch from your hiding spot as Dolgi stands outside Klorah's door, greeting her parents respectfully.

Almost.

Klorah goes inside, her father grunts gruffly at Dolgi while her mother simply sniffs at him before they close the door. They really like him it seems.

Now.

You drop down quietly behind your apprentice, still staring dreamily at the door. Then just as he turns you bellow a warcry, as Dolgi screams in surprise. You're glad you'd already forewarned the girl's parents otherwise the sound may have led them to come investigate.

Pocket Gravel can be delayed, but never denied.


- Vlag was besieged, and Vlag held but not without bearing some scars as proof. Work on their section of the Underway connection has slowed for obvious reasons.
- A horde of trolls tried and failed, to assault Kraka Drakk. Forcing King Otrek back from his campaigns early, and perhaps unnecessarily. The horde's leader killed by some mysterious beast and its horde buried under a mountain of snow caused by Brokk and his rangers.
- Your apprentices grow slightly less incompetent by the day, soon enough they'll be at the very minimum level of preparedness to undertake the trial and hopefully come back ready to be ordained as a master.


...
You have (5 - 1) = 4 actions and (2 -2) =0 apprentice actions this turn:
General:

[ ] Odd Places 2/10: Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness.
[X] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 2 turns.
[X] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 4 turns.

Requests: Denote which simple request will receive the Apprentice Action in your plan.

[ ] [Simple] Apprentice work: your not that young, but still young, charges are now of an age you feel it acceptable for them to do a bit of exploration. Send your apprentices out into the hold and pick up a few tasks from whoever offers it to them. Give them a bit of experience for their upcoming task as journeymen and let them build a reputation in the hold. You'll, of course, critique their work and use it as a learning experience as any good master ought to. [Cost: variable apprentice actions.] Roll for usefulness. 1 Roll per apprentice action.
[ ] [Difficult] Write in, A Greater Warmachine Pt. 2: The plan is built, the weapon ready. A Bolt Thrower of truly prodigious size whose scale belies just how light it was in comparison. With your final touches, it will be something truly deadly to behold. You've tentatively named this beast of a weapon The Reckoner [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
[ ] [Difficult] A Higher Standard Pt. 1: You've gazed upon the face of the Ancestors a lot in the past few years, especially when you were making your alchemical flame spitters, and it's inspired you. A banner to rally behind, something that dwarfs will look to and fight all the harder with it at their back. A banner worthy of the hold of Kraka Drakk to be held aloft with pride by an equally worthy standard bearer. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: choose three runes you want on the weapon.
- [ ] Theme: write in a theme for the weapon. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)
- [ ] GM: Leave it to the GM. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)
[ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: You've had an idea for something! This is the template for write-in item requests. Please put down the name, description and type of equipment/item you want to be made. Pt 2 of the item will cost differently depending on the number of items and potentially the size of it as well. A base guideline for Pt.2 costs will be at the bottom of the post. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: choose three runes you want on the weapon.
- [ ] Theme: write in a theme for the weapon. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)
- [ ] GM: Leave it to the GM. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)

Research: Your career and your honour demand you hone your craft, and it's usually done through poking at runes and seeing what works.
[ ] Silverwood: An entire forest odd silvery Wutroth is now under your ownership. While a large profit driver as you are well aware, there's an odd feeling in your belly when you look at the stuff. Beautiful like nothing else, and stronger than regular Wutroth as well. You know a few runes that require Wutroth to make, but maybe this has something special to it as well?[Cost: 4 actions] Student of the Odd will proc
[ ] The Greedy One's Heart: This thing has been transferred to a warded container because you don't really trust anything that came from that thing. You're all but certain you could make a truly potent Rune of Healing or Fortitude with this thing, but perhaps there are other uses for it you could come up with that a battery of tests could reveal.[Cost: (4 -1) =3 actions] Student of the Odd will proc
[ ] The Secrets of Light?: That moment with the shield and sunray, the light of your torch glinting off the crystal, both sparked something in your mind. An ember that refused to be burned out. You've done permutations to the standard Rune of Light and a few on Master Yorri's Rune of Reflection, but maybe there could be more?[Cost: (8 -2) =6 Actions] Student of the Odd will proc
[ ] The Movement of things: The Rune of Waking or Animation as some would call it is a rare rune. How Master Yorri knows both the regular and Master Rune could be explained by either a harrowing adventure full of terror, beasties and treasure or by something as mundane as asking a friend, you could never be sure with the man. Still, this was a rune that, to your frustration, you haven't had much chance to tinker with. Maybe just a peak? [Cost: 8 actions] Student of the Odd will proc.
[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
[ ] Understand a Master Rune: The same idea as studying any rune in theory, in practice it takes a lot longer and there's often a large chance of explosions. [Cost: 16 actions] Depending on the choice, Student of the Odd and/or Mind of Metal may proc.

Order: You can order 1 new item a turn, but can have as many orders ongoing as you want. Don't hoard mats.

[ ]Write-in:
- [ ] Kingly Authority: You may petition King Otrek to flex his political muscle to expedite the process. [Cost: 5,10,15, Favour from King Otrek, depending on tier] -1 turn taken on order.
[ ] Kingly Authority: You may petition King Otrek to flex his political muscle to order something for your use. [Cost: 5,10,15, Favour from King Otrek, depending on tier] +1 Order.

Write in Equipment Action Costs:

1 Action - 1 standard piece of equipment.
2 Actions - Multiple pieces of equipment or Large individual items like a Gronti or individual equipment for a very big Gronti
3 Actions - Very Large individual items like a very big Gronti or a full/near full set of items.

Remember to vote by plan. There will be a two-hour moratorium for discussion.
AN: An actual shorter turn than I wanted but theres not much to say really, as always thank you for reading and C&C. :^)
 
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[] Plan Finished Stuff
-[ ] [Difficult] Write in, A Greater Warmachine Pt. 2: The plan is built, the weapon ready. A Bolt Thrower of truly prodigious size whose scale belies just how light it was in comparison. With your final touches, it will be something truly deadly to behold. You've tentatively named this beast of a weapon The Reckoner [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
— [] 1 Action
-[ ] The Greedy One's Heart: This thing has been transferred to a warded container because you don't really trust anything that came from that thing. You're all but certain you could make a truly potent Rune of Healing or Fortitude with this thing, but perhaps there are other uses for it you could come up with that a battery of tests could reveal.[Cost: (4 -1) =3 actions] Student of the Odd will proc
— [] 3 actions
 
Does Student of the Odd and Productivity Like No Other carry over on multiple turns, if we spent 1 action last turn and 2 this turn would it proc?
 
[ ] Silverwood: An entire forest odd silvery Wutroth is now under your ownership. While a large profit driver as you are well aware, there's an odd feeling in your belly when you look at the stuff. Beautiful like nothing else, and stronger than regular Wutroth as well. You know a few runes that require Wutroth to make, but maybe this has something special to it as well?[Cost: 4 actions] Student of the Odd will proc
I would add "of" between "forest" and "odd"
Does Student of the Odd and Productivity Like No Other carry over on multiple turns, if we spent 1 action last turn and 2 this turn would it proc?
It does not.
 
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[ ] Plan Metal and Machine
-[ ] [Difficult] Write in, A Greater Warmachine Pt. 2: The plan is built, the weapon ready. A Bolt Thrower of truly prodigious size whose scale belies just how light it was in comparison. With your final touches, it will be something truly deadly to behold. You've tentatively named this beast of a weapon The Reckoner [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
--[ ] 3 actions

Puts us one turn from finishing metal part 3 and gets the warmachine out. Heart I think we can hold off on until we have turns with 1 or 2 actions to spare.
 
I want to spend three actions on Mind of Metal, then. It seems like a near-capstone tech - a quintessential gromril weapon could be daemonbane indeed.
 
[ ] Plan Metal and Machine
-[ ] [Difficult] Write in, A Greater Warmachine Pt. 2: The plan is built, the weapon ready. A Bolt Thrower of truly prodigious size whose scale belies just how light it was in comparison. With your final touches, it will be something truly deadly to behold. You've tentatively named this beast of a weapon The Reckoner [Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
-[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 3: The Gromril isn't pure, well metaphysically. You need to first devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself before you can even begin to tackle the actual physical makeup of such a procedure. You're lucky there's a large body of Runework dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks, otherwise this would have taken far longer. Your gut tells you nevertheless, that nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it.[Cost: (12 -2) =10 Actions] Student of the Odd and Mind of Metal will proc.
--[ ] 3 actions
I will vote for that too.
 
Which makes me worried for when our apprentices head out to be journeymen. They'll be finished in ~20 years and might get caught up in the Incursion.
When the Incursion hits, Grungi should send a warning for every Hold to hunker down. So, our apprentices should be in the relative safety of the Hold, helping repel assaults and not wandering about in the world.
 
When the Incursion hits, Grungi should send a warning for every Hold to hunker down. So, our apprentices should be in the relative safety of the Hold, helping repel assaults and not wandering about in the world.
Depends on how far they intend to range while they are journeymen. They might end up in a different Hold.
 
I'll vote for anything that has The Rune of Metal as part of the plan. We are nearly done with it and I want to see what it gives us!
 
Having thought about it, it does make sense the Elves were attacked first after the daemons slipped the net past the Lizardmen. Their souls are rich with magic, even if they're not all psykers like in 40k, and Ulthuan is implied to be mystical even prior to the Vortex. Dwarves meanwhile have magic-resistant souls and dwell beneath rock and earth.
 
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or well he would have were you not also been suffering monster attacks of your own.
"Not also been" should probably "Not also". Tenses always screw with me so I feel ya on this one.

"Looked like the damn thing was ripped apart by the biggest set of talon's I've seen. Body was torn in half with its head crushed underfoot. Patterns in the snow make me think its either a particularly small dragon or a very big chimaera," you remember hearing Brokk say during today's meeting.

Curious, but it was out of your hands, so you can do nothing more than wish Brokk well in his search for the culprit.
Uh... HMMM. Glad the horde got smacked by an avalanche Brokk set off but still. Eeek.

That scares me a little, and a great horde of Daemons assaulting Vlag is also ungood.

Two decades before they'd be ready at their current pace, longer if they didn't, but you knew you'd likely let them go before they'd turn 200. Hopefully to see them in a few decades, ready to be tested and pass as masters, complete their education, and become true Runesmiths.

You eye the sky, and see it is still clear. Though you cannot help but feel as if the air is tingling just a bit.
More warnings.

You suppose you could leave it to the King to square away, but you'd already done so much. What's another series of defences really? Ah well, you were decades away from having to worry about the issue, and more importantly, you see your target.
Good to know we have some number of decades before that action will even show up. Gives us time to research.

The former inside a bakery ordering buying some late-night stonebread and the latter in the middle of a drinking competition surprisingly.
"Ordering buying" -> "buying".

You drop down quietly behind your apprentice, still staring dreamily at the door. Then just as he turns you bellow a warcry, as Dolgi screams in surprise. You're glad you'd already forewarned the girl's parents otherwise the sound may have led them to come investigate.

Pocket Gravel can be delayed, but never denied.
Lol. Poor Dolgi.

Nowhere is safe.

[ ] [Difficult] Write In Pt. 1: You've had an idea for something! This is the template for write-in item requests. Please put down the name, description and type of equipment/item you want to be made. Pt 2 of the item will cost differently depending on the number of items and potentially the size of it as well. A base guideline for Pt.2 costs will be at the bottom of the post. [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you.
- [ ] Choose: choose three runes you want on the weapon.
- [ ] Theme: write in a theme for the weapon. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)
- [ ] GM: Leave it to the GM. (I will roll to see if you find a new combo)

Write in Equipment Action Costs:
1 Action - 1 standard piece of equipment.
2 Actions - Multiple pieces of equipment or Large individual items like a Gronti or individual equipment for a very big Gronti
3 Actions - Very Large individual items like a very big Gronti or a full/near full set of items.
Thank you for providing this! These are both going to be very useful.

I'm not gonna really suggest a plan, I like Eva's and its pretty straightforward what we have to do and I wouldn't mind most other plans that come up. I'm also keen on the fact that it looks like we can in fact run out our request category. Unusual to have happen in a quest with a format like this. We'll see how it turns out!
 
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I'll vote for anything that has The Rune of Metal as part of the plan. We are nearly done with it and I want to see what it gives us!
Well, nearly done with this part of it at least.

1 Action - 1 standard piece of equipment.
2 Actions - Multiple pieces of equipment or Large individual items like a Gronti or individual equipment for a very big Gronti
3 Actions - Very Large individual items like a very big Gronti or a full/near full set of items.
Enlightening.
 
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