This is a storywriter's hack. You can't actually steal a Green Lantern's Ring without beating their willpower, because Green Lantern Rings are under Willed Orders not to leave the fingers/appendages of their owners, for exactly this reason.
It's basic GL Training 101.
So, he'd cast Steal for the Ring, and the Ring would just deflect/neutralize it. You can't actually pickpocket a GL Ring!... not even Batman.
Green Lantern Rings can't even detect Alchemist's abilities. Can't deflect what you don't know is happening. Remember when one of the Lanterns was trying to detect the source of the portal that spat J'onn out? He couldn't detect that it was even happening while it was right there in front of him.

This is standard powergamer justification. "It has no limits stated, therefore it has none!"

Which is not RAW. It is doing something Wish and 9th level spells cannot. Thus, the first thing you do is compare it to similar effects.
It does NOT explicitly say that it can do the things that you say it can do. Therefore, you cannot infer that it can!

The closest similar effect is Death Ward, which prevents level loss via draining. LOSS is very specific, it means 'taken away'. It doesn't do anything with sacrifice or conversion, as those are not 'loss': your XP is still there, merely in a different form. Assuming 'loss' includes giving away xp is facetious.

So, no, I refuse to accept your initial statement, and claim the inverse. If it's not mentioned, then you can't infer it can be done as an absolute. You have FIRST to go back to RAW, which is comparison to similar objects/items, and unlimited cycling of xp is NOT anywhere within the rules set.

=+RED
Wish most certainly can do what a thought bottle can; just cast Wish and use it to get yourself a thought bottle.

And the bottle does what it says it does, else you're not following the rules and are houseruling. Any time your XP is less than the amount it was when you used the thought bottle (minus 500) then you can restore your XP total. You got level drained back to level 1? Use the thought bottle. You used lots of XP on crafting items or casting spells? Use the thought bottle. Transmigration resets your XP to 0 after boosting your level cap and converting your perks into ability points. Is 0 less than what it was before transmigration? Yes? Then the thought bottle gives you those XP back. And since raising your XP above 0 doesn't negate having transmigrated (else Alchemist wouldn't be able to further gain levels), using the thought bottle doesn't either.

Alchemist has found all sorts of hacks for his system, such as using FF7 items for 100% free casting (which breaks the fundamental rules of the universe, in that energy can't be made ex nihilo) or using P1's Instant Dungeon and Meteor to gain thousands of levels in an instant.

Al's job is to find exploits and to cut corners, and this is one of them. You don't like it? Tough noogies. That's how the item works, so he should be able to use it that way.
 
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Yyyyyeah, you're wrong.

you can't steal a lanterns ring if they are Concentrating on it.

Untrue.

I was actually specifically referencing this event, if you read my post. Not even Batman can pickpocket a GL Ring. Willpower use of a Ring does NOT need to be active. There are plenty of GL examples of constructs and uses of power that last longer than concentration. Willpower is an asset, and it can be used like a battery.

The Lantern simply allocates enough Will to the effect, and it's there ready to activate.

This function is why the Rings automatically work to protect their owners when in hostile environments and similar things, even if said wearers are unconscious or concentrating on other effects, like, oh, fighting. Allocate the initial Will and just let it run.

So, this is a storyline hack making Batman look cool at the cost of absolutely ignoring decades of GL's history. I discounted it as impossible the first time I actually read it, because it's such a dick rookie move to get your Ring stolen, and no Lantern who had ANY brains would allow it.

And then they repeated it. Like, what? Any time a Lantern is wearing their Ring, it is under their Willed order not to leave their finger.

A Green Lantern would not be able to fly and use Constructs at the same time if Batman's rule was right. Willing the ring not to leave his finger is MUCH simpler than flying. The only way you could do it is if the Ring is literally out of juice.

Same effect, no different, but it's cool for Batman to steal a GL Ring, so they let him do it. There are plenty of older comics referencing the 'willed order not to leave his finger' and some very powerful beings and effects have been unable to take the Ring.
 
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Green Lantern Rings can't even detect Alchemist's abilities. Can't deflect what you don't know is happening. Remember when one of the Lanterns was trying to detect the source of the portal that spat J'onn out? He couldn't detect that it was even happening while it was right there in front of him.


Wish most certainly can do what a thought bottle can; just cast Wish and use it to get yourself a thought bottle.

And the bottle does what it says it does, else you're not following the rules and are houseruling. Any time your XP is less than the amount it was when you used the thought bottle (minus 500) then you can restore your XP total. You got level drained back to level 1? Use the thought bottle. You used lots of XP on crafting items or casting spells? Use the thought bottle. Transmigration resets your XP to 0 after boosting your level cap and converting your perks into ability points. Is 0 less than what it was before transmigration? Yes? Then the thought bottle gives you those XP back. And since raising your XP above 0 doesn't negate having transmigrated (else Alchemist wouldn't be able to further gain levels), using the thought bottle doesn't either.

Alchemist has found all sorts of hacks for his system, such as using FF7 items for 100% free casting (which breaks the fundamental rules of the universe, in that energy can't be made ex nihilo) or using P1's Instant Dungeon and Meteor to gain thousands of levels in an instant.

Al's job is to find exploits and to cut corners, and this is one of them. You don't like it? Tough noogies. That's how the item works, so he should be able to use it that way.
That's an author's interpretation of what GL Ring can and cannot do. GL Rings can certainly detect magic and the use of magical abilities. Will can definitely restrict and restrain magic, there are many, many examples of GL fighting magic users. Will is the power that made the Starheart and confined so much magic to Earth in the first place. So, you're creating a double standard and citing the story as DC Canon while doing so?
---

You are literally ignoring the wording of Thought Bottle and giving it stuff it does not say it can do.

Experience:
A thought bottle can be used to offset level loss as a restoration spell can, but is effective against level loss that even a restoration can't undo (Including levels lost due to death, but not the negative levels bestowed by magic items such as a holy weapon). When a user's experience has been stored within the bottle, he can subsequently access the bottle to restore his XP total to exactly what it was when it was last stored, negating any level loss in the interim. Storing experience in the bottle is difficult, and the user must pay 500 XP (Deducted before storing) to do so. Only the creature that stored the experience can retrieve it, but if the bottle is destroyed or lost, the user suffers no ill effects.
====From COmplete Arcane, p 150.

It says level loss. It does not say 'xp sacrificed'. It does not say 'xp expended'. It does not say 'xp transformed into another form'.
It says it negates level loss, which is a very specific effect that happens to people in the game. Giving up a Level and Level Loss are not the same thing, and you are attempting to say that they are.

Also kindly note that you can't spend xp to lose a level from crafting items or casting spells, among other things.

So it will negate Level Loss, specifically, NOT the other kinds of losing xp. It's RIGHT THERE in the item description, the limit of what it can do!

A Wish spell COULD duplicate the above effect. It's simply a version of Greater Restoration. it could NOT create 19 levels of xp out of nowhere repeatedly that you had invested into magical items, it is beyond the power of the spell.

The 'similar item/effect' is the #1 rule of Raw for D&D, and you are totally ignoring it in your search for a Hack. As soon as that Rule is acknowledged, the Thought Bottle also cannot do what you say it does. Alchemist is not immune to Rule #1 when working with items conceived under that Rule!

So, it's not how I don't like it. It's how you are interpreting it and ignoring the Rules to do so!

I will also say that the xp preservation effect is at least a 7th level spell, and even paying 500 xp to use it each time, the minimum cost of the thing should be 91k gp, to go by the pricing rules (maybe -30% because of the XP Cost), so they are violating their own guidelines on pricing/similar items, not that such is a surprise. It's correctly priced only if you restrict it to storying memories, and maybe spells (if regaining such spells is also subject to expended spell slot rules requiring a rest/sleep, so you can't refill slots you just expended).

All in all, it's poorly worded and even worse priced, but Rule #1 takes care of the broken parts, as does actually acknowledging the language it uses.

Most Video Game systems don't have Rule #1 in D&D, and also, Terra-Chan is the active DM. Since it is so broken if misinterpreted, she'd simply rule that all the extra inclusions people are trying to work into the item are beyond the scope of the item as defined, and the problem is moot.
It comes down to being a Greater Restoration you can use on yourself for 500 xp at a time, which, while powerful and underpriced, is not broken.

I would note that if this was in a Video Game, you'd have an absolute answer, because it would not do what you want it to do as far as unlimited XP, no Game Designer would allow it, and so your expanded definition would run right into the rules and you'd have no choice but to acknowledge them.

If the GM really wants to be snarky, he could have it work like you want, but all the xp sacrificed/converted is instantly removed from what it was used on. So all that crafting or investing you did is just spontaneously undone, meaning you spent days making a magic item that is now inert and non-functional because its xp was restored back to you, and it cost you 500 xp to do so! Likewise, Alchemist would be rewound back to level 100 and his transmigration reversed, exactly as he was.

Really, adding all these impossible xp preservations without identically reversing their effects is also facetious. Restoring your xp and reversing your level loss is exactly the same as reversing your XP sacrifice and undoing the magic items you made, but for some reason nobody wants to do that, and doubtless they'll point to the one side of the spell saying it will reverse level loss and ignore the fact that it will not negate xp sacrificed at the same time.

In the end, it's the difference between a Tabletop and a Video Game. I note that your counter examples were all video games, where the effects are absolute. An RPG is a different beast.

===As a very interesting aside, there is also an existing rule that XP put into magic items is to be included in the xp of the creating character when judging his actual level for WBL and campaign play. So, someone who is 20k xp behind the rest of the party because he made magic items for them is to be treated as if he had not spent that xp for all comparison purposes. He's not suddenly 10th level while the party is 12th, he's treated as 12th level for all purposes.
As this is a working rule, it should also apply to this item, so the xp sacrificed is not covered under level loss, and he hasn't actually lost anything, so the Thought Bottle would not work.

=+RED
 
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@Mister Ficser question, now that Al is much stronger now and needs a relaxing vacation, would he take batman and/or the rest of the justice league to zombie earth to loot it again, especially the hero cities they avoided last time?
 
@Aelryinth - It says it offsets level loss, and then goes on to note that you reset your XP total as the means to do so. So even if your XP is reduced without level loss, you can use the thought bottle to restore it, since that's what using the thought bottle does, even without losing a level.

But clearly there are no sources of negative levels you could utilize, if the DM absolutely requires it, to use the thought bottle to restore your XP total. Nope. No way at all. Like the Fell Drain feat, or summoning a wight, or any of the numerous spells that do so directly. Nope. None at all.
 
@Mister Ficser question, now that Al is much stronger now and needs a relaxing vacation, would he take batman and/or the rest of the justice league to zombie earth to loot it again, especially the hero cities they avoided last time?

It would actually be quite the learning experience for the various heroes. Admittedly, the zombies are typically less challenging than the real deal due to not having a function INT or WIS score but they'd still represent incredible milestones for the heroes to fight against.

The real fun would involve bringing all of the heroes along on a trip to the zombie!Watchtower.

The thought bottle- I wasn't intending to comment but it's gotten incredibly repetitive.

It will not be featured. Full stop. It's been brought up, multiple times, that Transmigrating is trading growth for potential. It's also been brought up, multiple times, that the levels and perks may be useful but they are less important than abilities and skills.

If pure experience were Alchemist's goal, he could use up all of those countless souls he collected throughout Dark Souls and Demon Souls. Or literally purchase Experience Books from Saviors of Sapphire Wings. Or experience potions from Disgaea.

Al isn't stressed out over it because, while the numbers matter in some scenarios, he's also been told outright by Odin that, in combating the gods, the strength and power he needs cannot be measured in numbers.

And he's taken steps in those directions. The shadow of Gungnir is ready to teach Alchemist whatever Odin left inside of it. The protections Lucifer inscribed unto Alchemist's soul can now safeguard some of his abilities and spells. Then there's the material that Al got a look at while visiting the Lux...
 
wonder if Al and batman could raid zombie luthor's secret lab for all his computer info, and do the same to the fortress of solitude?.....zombie krypto the super dog?
 
… super random idea, but I kinda want alchemist to go troll around in stargate as a vacation. Just to watch the ascended's dumb faces as he breaks everything xD
 
Alc got many goodies from Lucifer, and didnt even need to waste 50k on it!

He is gonna need to name that metal tho.
 
3.5 D&D has a metal called Thinaun that absorbs the soul of anyone in contact with it when they die, with no limit on how strong that soul can be or how much metal there needs to be for it to work. It can only hold one soul at a time, however. Make a sword out of that to whack anyone you don't want coming back, absorb their soul with it, and then cast a spell with said soul as a material component to delete it...

Very much [Evil], but it works!

I entered a character into a challenge once where you had to build a level 20 primarily monk character (monk 17/cleric 1/fighter 1/psychic warrior 1; no more than 3 levels in anything that isn't monk) that could solo all of the Elder Evils and all of their minions by hurling myself bodily into them and making them asplode. I was going to absorb their souls using thinaun rings so they couldn't self-resurrect, but Emperor Tippy (the one who made the challenge) seemed to have forgotten about it and eventually let the thread die. :(
 
3.5 D&D has a metal called Thinaun that absorbs the soul of anyone in contact with it when they die, with no limit on how strong that soul can be or how much metal there needs to be for it to work. It can only hold one soul at a time, however. Make a sword out of that to whack anyone you don't want coming back, absorb their soul with it, and then cast a spell with said soul as a material component to delete it...

Very much [Evil], but it works!

I entered a character into a challenge once where you had to build a level 20 primarily monk character (monk 17/cleric 1/fighter 1/psychic warrior 1; no more than 3 levels in anything that isn't monk) that could solo all of the Elder Evils and all of their minions by hurling myself bodily into them and making them asplode. I was going to absorb their souls using thinaun rings so they couldn't self-resurrect, but Emperor Tippy (the one who made the challenge) seemed to have forgotten about it and eventually let the thread die. :(
would it technically work on gods since there a immaterial being who is therefore just a soul? tap and boom, god soul sword?
 
would it technically work on gods since there a immaterial being who is therefore just a soul? tap and boom, god soul sword?
Gods are of the Outsider type, and they aren't usually considered to have the soul/body dichotomy. Therefore, their souls are their bodies and their bodies are their souls, and their bodies would thus disappear when they're shunted into the thinaun.
 
Alchemist already went over why perma-killing Law would be bad on a universal scale and why he needed a different plan, but that's a good idea otherwise<3
 
Alchemist already went over why perma-killing Law would be bad on a universal scale and why he needed a different plan, but that's a good idea otherwise<3
Alchemist plans to suck out his soul and entrap it forever anyway. This works just as well (or better), but just skip the "use soul as a material component" step. His soul will still exist, just...stuck. Forever.

[edit] If mythological figures are real, where's my Easter Bunny at?
 
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