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Project: Gamer Ver. 2 (Young Justice/Gamer/Multicross OC)

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Aelryinth said:
There was a lot of abuse of the wording of Thought Bottle in 3e, such that it is basically a banned item.

It sounds like what you want to have happen is it preserves all of his XP, he transforms into something new by consuming all his old xp, gets a new form and higher base stats, and then uses the Thought Bottle to get all his xp back, -500 points.

The problem here is that it is not 'level loss' in the D&D sense, which is about xp being drained and taken away. This is XP being consumed to power a new effect, namely becoming a level 1 all over again and getting permanent stat boosts.

So, I would rule that he hasn't LOST any of his old xp, it's all still there, just in the form of permanent stat boosts and a new race/class. So the Thought Bottle would either do absolutely nothing, or it would revert him back to where he was just before changing, minus 500 xp.

*Abuse would be something like using the Thought Bottle, then casting ten Wish spells for the XP cost, getting the benefits thereof, and then using the Thought Bottle to reduce the loss/cost down to a mere 500 xp, and similar things, such as the XP paid for making powerful magic items. Here, you're basically advocating a start all over, get boosts, then get back to level 100-500 xp instantly. Then go earn 500 XP and continue the shenanigans, getting heaps of permanent Stat boosts over and over for basically 500 xp each time.

(edit) The last part won't work if the level cap increases each time he starts over, but it functionally means spend 500 xp, get zillions of xp back from a mechanical standpoint. Of course it's a huge exploit!

Just as a note, 500 xp is half the xp a level 1 needs to make it to level 2 in 3e D&D. Alchemist could make that much xp in literally seconds.

So, there is a definite difference between xp loss/drain vs xp sacrificed/paid!
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The thought bottle restores XP regardless of why it was lowered (sans the 500 XP lost in using the item), so no matter why the XP was reduced, the thought bottle will fix it. The XP can be lost through levels, or through spellcasting, or through epic spell research, or paying off level adjustments, or paying for templates, or through item creation. No limits are specified in the item, so it can be used for any or all of those, and more.

And transmigrating explicitly reduces Alchemist's (and Jinx's/Kary's/Yuffie's/etc) XP down to 0 in exchange for additional benefits, but the XP are still reduced to 0. So if Al stores his XP, gains 500 more, then transmigrates, he'll gain all the benefits of transmigrating, reduce his XP to 0, then regain his XP back to where it was when he ready to transmigrate (minus 500). But he'll still have the "benefits" of transmigrating, just like an item creator will still have the benefits of the items he (or she, or it) creates.

Remember, the item is only "broken" when used in the context of a multiplayer tabletop game with a DM who doesn't take that kind of thing into account. Someone like Emperor Tippy (renowned for gleefully DMing his games while breaking them over his knee) will embrace things like that and even encourage them.

Alchemist, on the other hand, is going out of his way to push the system as hard as he can, because if he's not "cheating," he's not doing it right. Breaking the system over his knee isn't going to destroy anyone's fun; NOT breaking the system is going to destroy everyone's lives. And anything the system allows is fair game. Remember, it's his job to do whatever he can to stress-test the thing, but this isn't even a glitch; it's how the item was designed to be used to begin with.

Remember the stakes he's fighting for. Lots of world/universe-ending threats, and the "heroes" aren't up to the challenge, and are furthermore being undermined from many angles. Plus, he's a beta tester. This is literally his job.
 
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Bloodalchemy said:
For anyone not interested in jump chains and wouldn't be following the story, here is a wonderful interview between the SI and Lois Lane. I linked the start so you can get some context, but if you want just the religious part jump to 'religious afterlife'
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Please warn people when you link to a page that has a sex scene on it.
 
Other than, "it would be boring for the story" is there a reason Alchemist can't just transmigrate, go to zombie ID's moon, break the earth to hit his lvl cap, use ID escape, and then repeat until he is so broken than the OAA would be terrified of him? If he used one of the quests he has to do for some items, then that's even less time Player One would have to wait in -real- world time, right?
So, by doing that, he could empower himself and his allies a LOT and take Zeus by surprise wouldn't he?

I'll admit that im no expert and im mostly curious tho, it's nota recommendation xD
 
DarkBan said:
Other than, "it would be boring for the story" is there a reason Alchemist can't just transmigrate, go to zombie ID's moon, break the earth to hit his lvl cap, use ID escape, and then repeat until he is so broken than the OAA would be terrified of him? If he used one of the quests he has to do for some items, then that's even less time Player One would have to wait in -real- world time, right?
So, by doing that, he could empower himself and his allies a LOT and take Zeus by surprise wouldn't he?

I'll admit that im no expert and im mostly curious tho, it's nota recommendation xD
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Breaking the Earth also breaks the I.D. and it takes time for Terra to reset everything.

The levels are really less important than the stats, at this point. And those are less important than the skills and what Alchemist and Co. can do with them. Spells like Soulsucker (Level Drain), Curse (All attributes/2) and the various buffing spells can completely imbalance a fight that previously seemed one-sided.

A good example of that would be how the Valkyrie Profile chapter ended. One of the optional superbosses showed up when Al broke the script with the intention of killing everyone, so Al buffed a nearby neutral party who was also an enemy to the superboss and made his escape in the confusion.
 
Mister Ficser said:
Breaking the Earth also breaks the I.D. and it takes time for Terra to reset everything.

The levels are really less important than the stats, at this point. And those are less important than the skills and what Alchemist and Co. can do with them. Spells like Soulsucker (Level Drain), Curse (All attributes/2) and the various buffing spells can completely imbalance a fight that previously seemed one-sided.

A good example of that would be how the Valkyrie Profile chapter ended. One of the optional superbosses showed up when Al broke the script with the intention of killing everyone, so Al buffed a nearby neutral party who was also an enemy to the superboss and made his escape in the confusion.
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I honestly didn't think of it that way, not having played Valkyrie Profile. I saw it as showcasing how effective a support character can be in a team. In far too many CRPGs people dismiss the buffers that don't also work as healers as useless since they don't do much direct damage and often (sadly correctly in far too many games where buffing is underpowered) point out that the buffs wind up being less effective than taking another class that can take out enemies on their own such as another fighter or mage.
 
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SlickRCBD said:
I honestly didn't think of it that way, not having played Valkyrie Profile. I saw it as showcasing how effective a support character can be in a team. In far too many CRPGs people dismiss the buffers that don't also work as healers as useless since they don't do much direct damage and often (sadly correctly in far too many games were buffing is underpowered) point out that the buffs wind up being less effective than taking another class that can take out enemies on their own such as another fighter or mage.
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I used to think like that as well, up until I got into the SMT games.

In the Square Enix games, you can always just overlevel to win. It's not optimal but it is simple.

Optimal strategies take experimentation, especially given the fact that quite a lot of facts are literally not presented to the player in the earlier games. Like the Asura boss fight in FF4? You can either try and outpace her self-healing which is... doable. With a combination of Haste and Berserk on the main damage dealers. Or you can hit her with the buff spell 'reflect' and have her send those healing spells your way.

Or do both. Both is good. And both are even easier when you learn that the Avenger sword automatically inflict the Berserk status on whoever wield the blade, which saves a turn on setup.

In SMT 3: Nocturne? Levels are slow and difficult, and so is improving your stats in an optimal manner. And, even if you do everything correctly?

Matador will still wreck your shit if you just try to punch it out with the fiend. Instead, the game intends for you to learn the value of buffing/debuffing and why they matter. Drop his accuracy or else raise your own evasion and those crippling blows suddenly become much less of a concern.
 
Mister Ficser said:
I used to think like that as well, up until I got into the SMT games.

In the Square Enix games, you can always just overlevel to win. It's not optimal but it is simple.

Optimal strategies take experimentation, especially given the fact that quite a lot of facts are literally not presented to the player in the earlier games. Like the Asura boss fight in FF4? You can either try and outpace her self-healing which is... doable. With a combination of Haste and Berserk on the main damage dealers. Or you can hit her with the buff spell 'reflect' and have her send those healing spells your way.

Or do both. Both is good. And both are even easier when you learn that the Avenger sword automatically inflict the Berserk status on whoever wield the blade, which saves a turn on setup.

In SMT 3: Nocturne? Levels are slow and difficult, and so is improving your stats in an optimal manner. And, even if you do everything correctly?

Matador will still wreck your shit if you just try to punch it out with the fiend. Instead, the game intends for you to learn the value of buffing/debuffing and why they matter. Drop his accuracy or else raise your own evasion and those crippling blows suddenly become much less of a concern.
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I had a similar experience with the first big boss of shin megami 5. I kept flinging myself at it without buffs and only pokemon leveling logic and kept getting decimated by the boss or bored of the miniscule exp gain from mobs. Was an eye opener and even had me use more stat alteration moves in other games like pokemon.
 
Earthbound was a tricky game as well, I remember trying to figure out how to use the Sound Stone without dying, and realizing that I really messed up by letting Po be so under leveled because I hadn't bothered leveling him seriously before the party separated.

Wild Arms Series of games were pretty wild, largely because it never really told you that you could get different conversations by switching the character you were walking around as. Wild Arms 2 that is how I stumbled on how to Awaken Justine Guardian of Love, and from that figured out I needed to talk around different people as someone close to them in order to bring those statues I found to life.

Course that was when I had a computer and internet and looked things up for help in perfecting my playing the game, a form of perfectionism in that I feel I have to find everything. I tried the Maribel thing and some of the sealed monsters and gave up on that after getting Maribel because it was too hard for me to do.

Ironically everywhere I looked at the time had no idea about the three statues, how to awaken them, and even some of the Guardians I found just talking around to people.

Years and Years ago when I had the PS2 and Gamecube I would use cheat devices to play games that were too difficult for me to get through normally, ended up using it as a crutch for a long while... Then I just got weaned off it, with more patience I found a lot of the games I tried to rush were easier with grinding around.

Didn't use it for Final Fantasy 7, I beat that thing in twenty four hours game time of grinding, and just stubbornness to get my characters to level 99. Still almost lost the final battle, staying up well past when I should have slept.

Suikoden one and two I did without cheats, same for three and four... Even though I loathed four... Five I tried with cheats, but gave up. Came back about a couple months to a year later, after I returned the game, or was I going to return it but decided to give it another chance?

Anyways I beat the heck out of that game without any outside cheats, nothing but what hints I could find online, and that was when I pretty much said fuck it to using things like cheat devices.

MS Saga New Dawn was a great game, I kind of got lazy/spoiled with the Cheat devices and used it to get more weapons on the MS, and just lost my senses. Years later I came back to it without cheats and almost beat it from a new save, unfortunately I had to trade it in for money...

Really depressed I never got to beat it clean....
 
Syphiralae said:
I had a similar experience with the first big boss of shin megami 5. I kept flinging myself at it without buffs and only pokemon leveling logic and kept getting decimated by the boss or bored of the miniscule exp gain from mobs. Was an eye opener and even had me use more stat alteration moves in other games like pokemon.
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Coward :p

Tbf though I carried the first pixie you recruit in SMT5 all the way to the end. I've got a photo somewhere of its stats at end game when I versed the demifiend actually. Gimme a second to grab it.



 
Mister Ficser said:
"There is a reflection of Hell beyond the wall, a place in which I still reign unopposed as king. Well, in name at least," Lucifer explained the conundrem his other self was experiencing as he slowly swirled his drink, blackened blood flowing around the small glass in a wave. "I've a daughter there that thinks the sinners may be redeemable. A fool's effort but ambition does run in the family. She thought to negotiate with the heavens, to ask that they reconsider their judgement should a sinner truly repent. They sent the first man, an easily manipulated tool, to reject her out of hand. To mock her. To Insult Me!"

Lucifer paused briefly to knock back his drink and shuddered as the liquid burned down the back of his throat.

He also rather pointedly ignored the lights around the bar burning just a bit brighter, minutely harsher.

"I have tolerated their foolishness for too long as it is. They gleefully make a mockery of my kingdom, my people, my Family. Even now, they send down their weakest to cull the refuse they send me for fear that they might grow powerful enough to cross the divide and strike back at the heavens that denied them. They have littered my domain with shattered refuse which now threaten my vassals!"

"So, hon?" @**&@%$#% asked as he handed the simple short spear back to the devil. "What were you thinking about doing if you were in Lucifer's place?"

"Hmm... I'd steal the opportunity from them," Kar'Yashlan explained, a malicious grin on her face. It was rather adorable, really. "You know when they'll send their hunters into your domain, so do the culling yourself before they get there. Waste their time, ruin their fun, look them in the eyes and tell them that you can really see why they go out of their way and do it every year."
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Hazbin Hotel… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! what a fine day for trolling! Might I suggest Lucifer openly compares them to the Daddy Issues Pantheon known as the Greek Gods? Maybe have a Hell wide announcement to not letting the puffed up raw chickens have their fun and universal hide everyone from sight? Maybe spread some sort of easily to DIY invisibility ward? Might actually freak them out in thinking everyone escaped hell. Pull a singing frog on them.
 
drvash said:
Clever wording.

Alchemist asked Lucifer for spells and abilities he has MASTERED to be embedded into his soul.

'Mastery' implies Alchemist investing time, effort, and emotional commitment to learn and retain a particular spell or ability. If cut off from the Gamer System, Alchemist will only lose skills and powers he doesn't use that often or doesn't consider worth level-grinding.

Yes, he'd lose around HALF of his arsenal (not enough time to master everything), but Alchemist would retain his strongest (most frequently-used) spells and abilities.
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Also, with a fair chunk of his arsenal attached to him instead of the Gamer System he might gain better control of them enough to be able to add limiters. Instead of a permanency frog transformation, he can temporary transform them for x amount of minutes. He has been sad that he can't use some of them anymore because they go straight to max damage output.
 
So they revealed that the guy who "accidentally" exposed Jay Garrick to the Hard Water was actually a villain who gave himself the name Doctor Elemental, and that he was a major backer of Star Labs. More specifically Thee Silent Partner, who was using what the heroes turned in to increase his repertoire, and behind a number of shady operations.

Awkwardly this actually slots into this story of what kind of crap Star Labs is up to, which is kind of interesting. Especially since it would tie in how long the corruption has been going on, and maybe draw in Jay Garrick to try and correct old mistakes.

...I admit that it would be interesting for Wally to have a kind of rival in The Boom, who is Jay's daughter, and of course...it would be a spanner that Al would never see coming since it came about after what he knows about DC when he died. Which could be an interesting reason for him to check into other things he isn't as sure as, like if the original Poison Ivy is somewhere else or not...
 
Come to think of it, there's also the chance that Doctor Elemental could use his resources to aid the Light. Give them facilities to aid in their research.

Worth noting, it's also come out the Justice Society had its own equivalents to Justice League Dark and Young Justice, with all sorts of previous predecessor heroes revealed, and a myriad of new sidekicks (such as the aforementioned Boom), and in at least one case, a pre-established hero (Secret, a member of the original Young Justice team) was made one of those sidekicks.
 
Honestly I'm kinda just waiting for the comic book style governments to try something stupid with alchemist and co, and learn an abject lesson on why you do not disturb sleeping dragons. Or deities that are content to leave you alone for that matter. Legally in all probability this time, given they don't have physical access anymore, but even still. Honestly I'm not really that surprised that the US hasn't gotten it through their thick skull that they aren't the most powerful empire anymore, but I think Aquaman is a bit… too nice to actually use his political power against the surface nations unless things really go to the abyss.
I don't think anyone's done an 'Atlantis invasion is actually the good guys' story? Not that I expect that to ever come up in this case, but the idea amuses me.
 
Sesparra said:
Honestly I'm kinda just waiting for the comic book style governments to try something stupid with alchemist and co, and learn an abject lesson on why you do not disturb sleeping dragons. Or deities that are content to leave you alone for that matter. Legally in all probability this time, given they don't have physical access anymore, but even still. Honestly I'm not really that surprised that the US hasn't gotten it through their thick skull that they aren't the most powerful empire anymore, but I think Aquaman is a bit… too nice to actually use his political power against the surface nations unless things really go to the abyss.
I don't think anyone's done an 'Atlantis invasion is actually the good guys' story? Not that I expect that to ever come up in this case, but the idea amuses me.
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In the next chapter, we see a little bit of prep work going into that. Al is all for live and let live but he's also not above being a sneaky little shit.

Or creepy, if the mood strikes him.

And, to address a minor point... Batman knows about Alchemist relocating, but it's not as though he's given up ownership of the mountain and its surroundings. It's still an incredibly valuable location for a number of reasons, it's just that it also carries an ever-growing risk and Al isn't interested in exposing his refugees to that kind of stupidity.
 
For as long as I've been following this story and stalking the discussion, I'm glad that I still get excited for the new chapter. Also, I'm glad that Al's finally made the transition into a full blooded dragon. He was such a hodgepodge of materials and manufacturing methods that I was steadily nursing a headache for as long as he put off the species change. I think the this boon will also become a really cool feature for him too. Everything that he WILL master is also embedded into him and so that means nothing he masters from now on will ever not be his. I'm excited for the coming conclusions to plot points and new plot points added to the story. Hope the story continues for another million words lol
 
Mister Ficser said:
it's just that it also carries an ever-growing risk and Al isn't interested in exposing his refugees to that kind of stupidity.
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Sesparra said:
Knowing alchemist he might turn it into a fortress of doom(tm) as a big distraction
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I picture Alchemist as more of a "Bugs Bunny" or "Home Alone" style trap-maker.

Any mook invading Alchemist's property is going to get humiliated but not killed. He'll at least give the invaders a fair chance at surviving, maybe put out warning signs that they'll foolishly ignore.

Signs:
:o "Trespassers will be violated!"
💡 "Danger! Cognitohazards ahead!"
🔥 "Beware of Spontaneous Combustion!"
 
drvash said:
I picture Alchemist as more of a "Bugs Bunny" or "Home Alone" style trap-maker.

Any mook invading Alchemist's property is going to get humiliated but not killed. He'll at least give the invaders a fair chance at surviving, maybe put out warning signs that they'll foolishly ignore.

Signs:
:o "Trespassers will be violated!"
💡 "Danger! Cognitohazards ahead!"
🔥 "Beware of Spontaneous Combustion!"
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Plenty of low-tier Cognitohazards of the "you will never stop thinking about purple elephants" variety, where one can be handled and adapted to but the more that stack the more difficult it is to handle.
 
Raphael said:
Plenty of low-tier Cognitohazards of the "you will never stop thinking about purple elephants" variety, where one can be handled and adapted to but the more that stack the more difficult it is to handle.
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At the entrance to every cabin might be one of these signs. Only one of them is an actual warning...

You may begin manually breathing, now.

Notice: No more than three eyeblinks per minute, please.

Your tongue is currently touching the roof of your mouth. It is also delicious.

Please watch the volume of your thoughts. The psychics are sleeping.

Beware of Trolls

Elbow licking is not permitted.
 
Mister Ficser said:
Though, one particularly unusual aspect had decided to wander off with a strange man wearing a white leisure suit. There wasn't anything especially noteworthy about the human beyond his inexplicable ability to kick open a doorway directly into hell. And his absolutely fantastic pancakes.
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.... okay this one's stuck in my brain, like I should know what it's referring to but I can't quite remember. Help?
 
Amrynel said:
.... okay this one's stuck in my brain, like I should know what it's referring to but I can't quite remember. Help?
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The Protag of Helltaker

Also Lucifer thinking about his alternates and kids really made me want to see more of his thoughts on them, was he just as disappointed in his Hazbin Hotel version as I was and does he like Charlie's drive/goal? And can he generate Quests for Alchemist to go to those worlds and help them?!?!
 
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