Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

[Karugus]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] Hespranxer (-1 Trust)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X] [Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

If this war does inevitably role around, we can likely knock the Hes out of GP and let neutrals like Ochruhr and Vortuga bully it to keep it occupied. And the sooner we have all our rivals pick d out, the less risk we run of the Royalists limiting our options in picking rivals to make things worse.

 

[veekie]

How high is the possibility of the Sketch-Hespranxer Alliance contacting the "The Most Ancient Kingdom Under God" polity to stab us from an unexpected direction if war comes?

Click to shrink...

The only route to the MAKUG crosses our land unless they fly

 

[Kiba]

Prototype Seafaring Steamships (10/35-45?) [Military][Naval][Open]

Military techs iterate with (Education + Militancy + Institution + Random) x Research Bonus

4(education) + 6(militancy) + 2(institution) + 1(random) = 13 x2 = 26

10 + 26 = 36/35-45? In the realm of completing or close to completing the project.

Mid 19th Century Biology (35/60-70?) [Science][Biology][Open]

All other techs currently iterate with (Education x2 + Institution + Random) x Research Bonus

8(education) + 1(institution) + 1 (random) = 10 * 2 = 20

35 + 20 = 55. Nearly in the real of completing our biological research next turn.

Spectroscopy (32/60-80?) [Science][Chemistry][Physics][Rare]

Ditto for Spectroscopy, with 32 becoming 52/60-80?

Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

Pretty much the same scenario for Industrial Machine Tools. Progression should be to 45/50-70?

We may want to consider a scientific or industrial booster or two, depending on what we hope to finish soon. Two industrial boosters will guarantee the completion of Industrial Machine Tools. Meanwhile, two science boosters will do the same for biology and spectroscopy.

However, this doesn't take into account that our new museum will add additional science/social drips. @Academia Nut How much of a drip are we talking about from the new museum? 10ish? 20ish?

 

[HanEmpire]

@Academia Nut, does the Highland Kingdom...I mean "The Most Ancient Kingdom Under God" know about current world events?

How high is the possibility of the Sketch-Hespranxer Alliance contacting the "The Most Ancient Kingdom Under God" polity to stab us from an unexpected direction if war comes?

Click to shrink...

I honestly hope they do this, and invade MAKUG when they realize how clueless the Highlanders are. It'll be an endless quagmire for them.

The only route to the MAKUG crosses our land unless they fly

Click to shrink...

Actually they can get there by sea. There isn't any good harbour to use, but if they're willing to use explosives to create a new harbour the Syffryns can definitely gain a foothold there.

 

[pbluekan]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[godofsmallthings]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[pbluekan]

Prototype Seafaring Steamships (10/35-45?) [Military][Naval][Open]

Military techs iterate with (Education + Militancy + Institution + Random) x Research Bonus

4(education) + 6(militancy) + 2(institution) + 1(random) = 13 x2 = 26

10 + 26 = 36/35-45? In the realm of completing or close to completing the project.

Mid 19th Century Biology (35/60-70?) [Science][Biology][Open]

All other techs currently iterate with (Education x2 + Institution + Random) x Research Bonus

8(education) + 1(institution) + 1 (random) = 10 * 2 = 20

35 + 20 = 55. Nearly in the real of completing our biological research next turn.

Spectroscopy (32/60-80?) [Science][Chemistry][Physics][Rare]

Ditto for Spectroscopy, with 32 becoming 52/60-80?

Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

Pretty much the same scenario for Industrial Machine Tools. Progression should be to 45/50-70?

We may want to consider a scientific or industrial booster or two, depending on what we hope to finish soon. Two industrial boosters will guarantee the completion of Industrial Machine Tools. Meanwhile, two science boosters will do the same for biology and spectroscopy.

However, this doesn't take into account that our new museum will add additional science/social drips. @Academia Nut How much of a drip are we talking about from the new museum? 10ish? 20ish?

Click to shrink...

Looks like you're missing the bonus for mid-19th century math and logic wombo combo.

 

[Kiba]

Looks like you're missing the bonus for mid-19th century math and logic wombo combo.

Click to shrink...

Nope, I accounted for that. Our research bonus 2x.

 

[8bitBob]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[agumentic]

More of avoiding a penalty. Our Royalists will be making us take more. Except we have to actually pay PW for it if we wait

Click to shrink...

We really don't know that. The only time when royalists wanted to force us into rivalry is when we had 0 and just finished nationalism, so had a need for some us-vs-them to build national identity.

 

[Random Member]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] Hespranxer (-1 Trust)

[X][Research] Modern Idealism (16/40-50?) [Science][Open]

Teacher of the World: -3 Innovation, +1 Education, +1 Academies

Click to shrink...

Okay, so uh, Center of the World caused our people to think we were the most advanced/important nation in the world and that we had all the knowledge worth having in our libraries, right? What impact does Teacher of the World have on our people's views?

 

[agumentic]

Actually they can get there by sea. There isn't any good harbour to use, but if they're willing to use explosives to create a new harbour the Syffryns can definitely gain a foothold there

Click to shrink...

And how would they do that without establishing a base there first? Just shell cliffs until they magically collapse into a good harbor?

 

[Bookreader]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[HanEmpire]

Okay, so uh, Center of the World caused our people to think we were the most advanced/important nation in the world and that we had all the knowledge worth having in our libraries, right? What impact does Teacher of the World have on our people's views?

Click to shrink...

I imagine it makes our people think we're superior to everyone else, and that we have a paternalistic duty to share our civilization with others to save them from their own barbarity. The Burden of the Ymaryn.

And how would they do that without establishing a base there first? Just shell cliffs until they magically collapse into a good harbor?

Click to shrink...

There's still crappy fishing villages here and there, IIRC. Once dynamites come around it'll definitely be possible to turn those into proper harbours. Expensive perhaps, but I can see people thinking that it might be worth the backdoor into the Dual Monarchy.

 

[Sivantic]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] Hespranxer (-1 Trust)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)

 

[Random Member]

I imagine it makes our people think we're superior to everyone else, and that we have a paternalistic duty to share our civilization with others to save them from their own barbarity. The Burden of the Ymaryn.

Click to shrink...

*groans* For the love of Crow, please don't let it be that. Anything but that.

 

[veekie]

We really don't know that. The only time when royalists wanted to force us into rivalry is when we had 0 and just finished nationalism, so had a need for some us-vs-them to build national identity.

Click to shrink...

We really DO know that.

Yes, having only two will eventually cause the Royalists to complain for another.

Click to shrink...

Unless you plan to Rival someone else, not Rivaling the Hespranxer does not make sense because we'd be forced to do so soon anyway.

Except we actuqlly need to pay PW for it

 

[Rakuhn]

Have we started an officer exchange with the Mapanca yet?

 

[agumentic]

We really DO know that.



Unless you plan to Rival someone else, not Rivaling the Hespranxer does not make sense because we'd be forced to do so soon anyway.

Except we actuqlly need to pay PW for it

Click to shrink...

Ah, missed that. I stand corrected. Still, I wonder if Royalists pressure is the only incentive.

And we could rival for free later, if we are rivaled first.

 

[veekie]

Ah, missed that. I stand corrected. Still, I wonder if Royalists pressure is the only incentive.

And we could rival for free later, if we are rivaled first.

Click to shrink...

Remember the royalist pressure last time had them effectively burn a PW every turn until we gave in.

In short, its fine to pick only Sketch...if you had a greater game plan to let a Great Power Rival us first before countering.

Which does mean losing one or more diplomatic arena to the Sketch.

Alternatively we rival the guys who are allied with the Sketch and want revenge on our allies, simplifying the blocs to West Europe vs East Europe and we play proxy games with the middle.

 

[No7sHere]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[HanEmpire]

Why are so many people voting to rival the Hespranxer? They aren't completely set on allying with the Sketch to create an anti-DM Bloc yet, so rivaling them now seems premature. In fact, us rivaling them first might be the last push needed to get the Hespranxer moving. Losing the diplomatic initiative might suck, but I think it's worth risking it to defuse the Hespranxer animosity. They're going to be dealing with some bad ethnic violence in their Halvyni and Tortun territories anyhow, so who knows how the situation there will develop?

 

[Pyro Hawk]

[X] [Rival1] 0 PW - Yes (-1 Trust)
[X] [Rival2] None (can only be taken if you declared against the Sketch)
[X] [Peace] 1 PW - At least try to respect national self determination (Feed the Kielmyr bits of Northern Tortun, you take some of the Wyrmyn parts of eastern Tortun, Behryvar gets the rest, Hespranxer devours Halvyni and colonies, +1 Trust)
[X] [Archaeology] 1 PW - Sounds good (Uses an Academy slot, other costs assumed by the Khemetri)
[X][Research] Industrial Machine Tools (25/50-70?)[Industrial][Open]

 

[Korporati]

Why are so many people voting to rival the Hespranxer? They aren't completely set on allying with the Sketch to create an anti-DM Bloc yet, so rivaling them now seems premature. In fact, us rivaling them first might be the last push needed to get the Hespranxer moving. Losing the diplomatic initiative might suck, but I think it's worth risking it to defuse the Hespranxer animosity. They're going to be dealing with some bad ethnic violence in their Halvyni and Tortun territories anyhow, so who knows how the situation there will develop?

Click to shrink...

The problem is who are we gonna rival instead?
There are no other eligible targets.

Considering the royalist will pressure us to spend pw to rival them anyway, might as well do it now.

Remember that the hespranxer are totally not okay with the khemetri, the power blocs themselves have already been formed.

 

[Rakuhn]

I have doubts that we are going to be able to get the Ochruhr to side with us without having to betray our long time allies the Styrmyr, so I'm hoping that they will rival us before the Royalists force the issue. Even if they don't, buying a few turns of Hespranxer neutrality is easily worth 1 PW.

That said, did any of the Sketch's rivals get anything when the Sketch stopped being the supreme power?