Because every turn we delay gives the Nohon a bigger stranglehold on the eastern coast of Kyberia. And Frankly, that is unacceptable.
That's inevitable at this point. Nohon is a lot stronger and more advanced than Japan was at this point in history.

Even if we expand right to their doorstep tommorow, we have no hope of winning an actual shooting war with them without railroads, and in the 50+ years that'll take, they'll have entrenched themselves quite strongly. And even with railroads, we'll still be at the end of our logistical chain.
 
People don't like port access via diplomacy because people don't want to make deals and thereby a) lose profit, b) endure limitations. Otherwise, Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

The railroad isn't necessarily cheaper than the sea access in the Indian Ocean we can already provide them with. Tbh, that sea access already provides us with Pacific trade that can more easily reach our core, so the whole pacific expansion thing is... inefficient.... unless we're just going to be establishing a different powerbase on that side, negating the need for much long-distance transport. In which case, we wouldn't really want to have our city's long term survival contingent on treaties with Nohon.

Edit: And the ocean is just a better border anyways.

this is such a long ways off that we have no idea what the political situation or relative strength would look like by the time this comes up. I'd be against getting married to the idea of war or diplomacy before we see what things look like by the time we have our railroads across Siberia. I mean, we don't even have the option to research railroads yet and likely won't for some time. So how about we expand, devlop and fortify and see what comes?
 
Honestly, I think a lot of people are still stuck in the mindset that we're the economical, technological and military top dog.

None of that is true.

Our armies are large, but outdated, using obsolete tactics and equipment.
Our navy is small and technologically limited compared to many world leaders
Economically, we're hampered by powerful guilds, while the Industrial revolution has already started in Sketch and Kielmyr
And culturally, we're quite backward as well.
 
Last edited:
this is such a long ways off that we have no idea what the political situation or relative strength would look like by the time this comes up. I'd be against getting married to the idea of war or diplomacy before we see what things look like by the time we have our railroads across Siberia. I mean, we don't even have the option to research railroads yet and likely won't for some time. So how about we expand, devlop and fortify and see what comes?
Adjusting plans is a base assumption, yes.
I simply have faith that if we expand to the east we will want to invade the coast. At some point.

Edit: I'd rather invest in research than expand, but that seems to be unpopular.
 
I think its a good idea to expand into as much of Kyberia as possible, but I doubt we will be able to contest Nohon's hold on the Not!Manchu territories by the time we get there, unless they have a nationalist revolt or something. By then, Nohon will have developed their infrastructure and local military to the point that WE'D be the ones suffering from Crow's Frost (Can I call it that, now?) if we tried to invade. We simply don't have the time.

Time, time! The great equalizer! And also something that tends to be forgotten about for dreams of grand ambitions and strategic objectives...

Also, booto o douzo~
[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp IC
 
Honestly, I think a lot of people are still stuck in the mindset that we're the economical, technological and military top dog.

None of that is true.

Our armies are large, but outdated, using obsolete tactics and equipment.
Our navy is small and technologically limited compared to many world leaders
Economically, we're hampered by powerful guilds, while the Industrial revolution has already started in Sketch and Kielmyr
And culturally, we're quite backward as well.
It's the opposite, people know that we aren't the strongest, and so they know that we can't rest on our laurels.

Like, if we knew that we could hold off France with minimal losses, there would be a great deal less worry about military increases, and more debate on how to industrialize.

Your mistake is you assume that people suggest conquest due to arrogance, when in reality it is due to worry.
 
It's the opposite, people know that we aren't the strongest, and so they know that we can't rest on our laurels.

Claiming Kyberia is resting on our laurels.

By sending all the dissidents to the eternal Winter, we suppress any internal reform. By dedicating Industrial Capacity to expansion, prevent any modernization. By stretching out the empire, we continue to increase and further the problem of backwards areas.

Kyberia's only benefit is providing a meager amount of resources (and thus preventing industrial innovation by locking us to primary resource exploitation) and painting more of the map our color.

Your mistake is you assume that people suggest conquest due to arrogance, when in reality it is due to worry.

Very weird expression of worry,that is.

Starting a war at the edge of our supply lines, one the whole other side of the world than the threat we're worried about, doesn't seem to be a good idea me.

Edit: Like, I honestly can't understand how you come to the conclusion that it's worry rather than arrogance. In order to succesfully pull of the Pacific Harbor strategy we need too :

1) Colonize half a continent
2) Defeat !Not-Japan while they have the home ground and supply line advantage
3) Invent railroads, then build the world largest railway line, through a frozen wasteland.
 
Last edited:
I don't support Kyberian expansion so that we can send away dissidents, I want the land so that it can fuel a new Ymaryn Empire. All those resources and land, just sitting there to be settled and made productive. It'll take a lot of work to make it worthwhile, but once our Mid-Ymaryn Plan takes off absolutely nobody will be able to fuck with us again.

And to make that possible, we need the Not!Pacific ports to turn the whole breadth of Kyberia into a massive trade route. Services and luxury goods go in, processed resources and industrial goods come out. Without the ports the land will turn into a hopeless backwater.
 
Yeah, that's the hubris I was talking about.

It assumes that we can pull of a war on the edge of our supply lines, and then a transcontinental railroad, when we haven't even gotten a tiny ember of industrial revolution going.
 
Looms are underway, railroad would come before the war.
Taking the land is beneficial, regardless, due to the resources it provides.
Building the railroad is beneficial, regardless, due to the trade with the Hong it can foster.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Kyberi] 1 PW - Send in proper negotiators and scholars to sort it all out (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, situation resolved, ???)
[X] [Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)
[X] [Paying] 0 PW - Bank and Business Fun
-[X] [Paying] +1 Temp SoL


The winning vote is still going to leave us with losing one happiness if we want to avoid that we need to either get.

15 more votes for this
[Crisis] 0 PW - Remain neutral and watch (-1 Temp Trust)

or 8 more votes for this
[Paying] +1 Temp SoL
 
Yeah, that's the hubris I was talking about.

It assumes that we can pull of a war on the edge of our supply lines, and then a transcontinental railroad, when we haven't even gotten a tiny ember of industrial revolution going.
I prefer to call it long term goal setting.

Also the second half of your post is meaningless as a reply to me, since I never advocated going to war without preparation and railroads.
 
Also the second half of your post is meaningless as a reply to me, since I never advocated going to war without railroads.

Even with railroads we would be at the edge of our supply lines. Russia is long and big.

I prefer to call it long term goal setting.

A long term goal that is ignorant of many important things that need to be done first.

We have a hard cap of 3 industry. That means that the max Temp stat we can regenerate is 1 per turn, barring events such as occurred in this turn.

That means that Kyberian expansion blocks of anything else that relies on Industry that we may want to do. Which is roughly 80% of action list.
 
Last edited:
Archive of the Ymaryn High Clerk, Ybry Nyrmyl​
(In the form of diffcheckers comparing to a blank copy of the records in question)
Civ Sheet
Rankings
Tech
Map

Head Mapmaker @Citino's Map Change Gif

Archivists Note: I RETURN! Not sure whether i'll end up sticking to just archival this time around or if i'll try for analysis later. Likely will depend on exactly how the mechanics shake out, whether I feel i can actually comment on the updates as much as i used to given the jump in context, and whether or not my free/entertainment time continues to be monopolized by books a friend has recommended and Stellaris (2.0 is so good! also so very bad for my sleep habits D=). If nothing else the first few updates will likely just be links and bare summaries of changes at most. ...Also i've at most skimmed the mechanics doc so i dont actually know how things work to do the math yet anyway <.< >.> 1802's post will be up shortly, but i figured the archive should go first :p
I think these were all the people who had wanted tags from the old A&D posts? @Academia Nut @BungieONI @zamin @veekie @PrimalShadow
 
Last edited:
-Civ Sheet
---IC 2 + 1 (Develop Industry) - 1 (Improve SoL) = 2
---Temp IC (2) - 1 (Develop Industry) - 1 (Claim Kyberi) = (0)
---Development 10/15 + 1/- (Develop Industry) + 0/2 (Claim Kyberi) = 11/17
---SoL 3 + 1 (Improve SoL) = 4
---Temp SoL (4) + 1 (Nobles Pleased) = (5)
---Temp Happiness (4) + 1 (SoL below Consc penalty removed) = (5)
---PW 5 - 5 (Actions) + 3 (Political Crisis) = 3
-Rankings
---No Changes
-Tech
---Liberalism +11, Rifling + 7, Loom +5
-Map
---Kyberi territory increase for us + Nohon
---UPM expands west, Vortugan Nohon holdings in Mahaxia expand
---Hespranxer colonies revolt
---Halvyni and some of western UUET occupied by Hespranxer
---UUET marked with red/black border to represent internal conflicts?
-Map Gif (Courtesy of @Citino)
 
Last edited:
Here is a list of the goals I can think of:
-Surviving the revolution.
-Industrializing.
-Increasing our research capacity.
-Liberalizing

Improving our military technology, developing our industry, improving education, and maintaining high happiness & SoL are sub-goals necessary for the above.

Expanding allows for a higher industrial cap, weakens our education, and is afaik neutral toward military technology and happiness.
 
Might want to throw a dipo mission at Sketch or Hung in case they went full industrial revolution, so we can ride along.

of course. if we fall to far behind we're going to get invaded by some bright eyed asshole looking for easy meat. we have room and resources to expand into, but we're definitely going to need to make sure we don't fall far enough behind to be easy prey at the very least.
 
We won't release the Industrial cap without breaking the guilds.

And the Kyberian way of increasing the development cap is counterproductive, I believe. Instead of intensification and improvement, it's spreading out further. It's just more small, old-style operations and cottage industries.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top