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Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

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[X] The remains of the clan will be banished, commanded to leave Alterac and likely travel to Hammerfall instead.

Politics of conscripting Thrall's clan aside (very good ones too), I don't think Grok would be comfortable relying on treacherous warriors with a historical lack of critical thinking skills.

"Our shaman says the dwarves will fight us, so we better attack first! Oh look, they're fighting us now, it was true! The shaman says that Grok's bunch will bring about the ruin of our clan, better attack first! Oh look, kaiju fights and blood sacrifices, the shaman was right again!"
 
This has been such a train wreck I just feel the need to flip a table. Whatever might as well just embrace the train wreck eh?

@FractiousDay any what ifs you want to share just to get me frustrated at the Alpha Protocol choices that I can't redo because I don't have a save?
 
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rx915 said:
This has been such a train wreck I just feel the need to flip a table. Whatever might as well just embrace the train wreck eh?

@FractiousDay any what ifs you want to share just to get me frustrated at the Alpha Protocol choices that I can't redo because I don't have a save?
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Please do not embrace the train wreck. Instead, grab a stick and thwack people until they stop wrecking trains.
 
rx915 said:
It's rigged regardless when Drek'Thar decided to attack Grok thanks to the rolls.
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Its really not rigged.
Throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's rigged" is part of the reason why the Kaiju battle happened and it lead to the bulk of our casualties here. We are 100% capable of making bad situations decent and we are always presented with the options to do so, it's the threads fault for chugging the drama juice and saying "fuck it, we'll never recover from this" anytime something goes more then slightly awry.
 
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Yeah.... I really don't see where people get the idea we're somehow getting stepped on or massively disadvantaged here.

If people would stop freaking out for two minutes we'd probably be running this town.
 
Kufufu said:
Its really not rigged.
Throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's rigged" is part of the reason why the Kaiju battle happened and it lead to the bulk of our casualties here. We are 100% capable of making bad situations decent and we are always presented with the options to do so, it's the threads fault for chugging the drama juice and saying "fuck it, we'll never recover from this" anytime something goes more then slightly awry.
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I would also observe that train wrecks are entirely preventable disasters. If you run a train in a stupid way then you're going to have problems like if you don't regulate the operations of the railway properly.

I get the impulse to not want to kill Drek'thar, but choice was explicitly between doing that and the kaiju battle, so yea not that suprising really.
 
Kufufu said:
Its really not rigged.
Throwing your hands in the air and saying "it's rigged" is part of the reason why the Kaiju battle happened and it lead to the bulk of our casualties here. We are 100% capable of making bad situations decent and we are always presented with the options to do so, it's the threads fault for chugging the drama juice and saying "fuck it, we'll never recover from this" anytime something goes more then slightly awry.
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It is rigged just like an Alpha Protocol choice at certain intervals. We can't have our cake and eat it when those happen.
FractiousDay said:
I would also observe that train wrecks are entirely preventable disasters. If you run a train in a stupid way then you're going to have problems like if you don't regulate the operations of the railway properly.
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Too soon?
w34v3r said:
Yeah.... I really don't see where people get the idea we're somehow getting stepped on or massively disadvantaged here.

If people would stop freaking out for two minutes we'd probably be running this town.
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Wanna roll for it?

I don't. I fail and end up a pauper. Now I have the choice of pawning of my nintendo switch or my PS5 to make ends meet.
rx915 threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Do I get to Run This Town? Total: 16
16 16
 
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FractiousDay said:
I get the impulse to not want to kill Drek'thar, but choice was explicitly between doing that and the kaiju battle, so yea not that suprising really.
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The impulse, really? I mean... We could have killed Drek'thar, got attacked by the rest of the clan in revenge, and you could say: "I get the impulse to stop the ritual, but, well, there was a note that Frostwolves started thinking that you attacked them first, and then you killed their boss and proved them right, so, duh, not that surprising really."
 
Kir the Wizard said:
The impulse, really? I mean... We could have killed Drek'thar, got attacked by the rest of the clan in revenge, and you could say: "I get the impulse to stop the ritual, but, well, there was a note that Frostwolves started thinking that you attacked them first, and then you killed their boss and proved them right, so, duh, not that surprising really."
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Not how I would have rolled it. The choice was between kaiju battle and killing drek thar. When you chose kaiju, I rolled for the severity of the battle for example. If you'd gone for Drekthar I might have rolled for the frostwolves reactions etc. That sort of thing. So yes, if the rolls demonstrated that the frsotwolves were angry, that would be one thing, but it wasn't guarenteed. Comparably, choosing to summon myzrael explicitly chose to have a kaiju battle, even if it didn't specifically choose the severity of such.

Yes it would have been reasonable for me to have rolled for the FW reaction, and that reaction would have been determined by the rolls, not by my planning or fiat.
 
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FractiousDay said:
Not how I would have rolled it. The choice was between kaiju battle and killing drek thar. When you chose kaiju, I rolled for the severity of the battle for example. If you'd gone for Drekthar I might have rolled for the frostwolves reactions etc. That sort of thing. So yes, if the rolls demonstrated that the frsotwolves were angry, that would be one thing, but it wasn't guarenteed. Comparably, choosing to summon myzrael explicitly chose to have a kaiju battle, even if it didn't specifically choose the severity of such.

Yes it would have been reasonable for me to have rolled for the FW reaction, and that reaction would have been determined by the rolls, not by my planning or fiat.
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Which is why I don't complain about bad rolls, or even about decisions to add extra troubles for the narrative. But to say we followed "an impulse", when there was a discussion of various bad possibilities of either choice, and the characters in universe mentioned pros and cons, too? Come on. As you say, there are reasonable variables in both events, and both could have played to good or bad results (say, we rolled to perfectly control Myzrael, or to limit the severity of battle), so it wasn't a foregone conclusion thing.
(Like, I specifically voted not because I wanted a "kaiju battle", but because it was implied in the text that killing Drek'thar would not banish the Ice Elemental, but made it uncontrollable, so I considered a possibility of even more damage from the elemental caused - and wouldn't that be a reasonable thing to roll for in that encounter, too?)
 
... ummmm
1. Ice lord doesn't have shaman support if Drek dies.
2. Without Drek the frost wolves would have to side with us against the elemental.
3. We have a specific skill for killing magical bullshit and the option to just dark shaman the thing into a power up.
4. That was an 'IF' killing was also suggested prior to that as a way to negate the summoning.
 
Kir the Wizard said:
But to say we followed "an impulse", when there was a discussion of various bad possibilities of either choice
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Ahhhhh. Right I get what you mean now. No I was referring specifically to the stated desire by some people not to kill Drek'thar because it would potentially be a further escalation against Thrall etc. I understand that particular impulse, and the desire to not escalate in such a manner, however you are indeed right on this:

Kir the Wizard said:
Grok thought this near the end of the
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w34v3r said:
... ummmm
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The nature of the decisions means that they're always going to be somewhat ambiguous. I do want to make sure you're reasonably informed about them. While choosing kaiju guarentees kaiju, Grok was indeed reasonably sure that killing Drek'thar would break the binding, but that wasn't certain.
 
I've given it some thought and I'm changing my vote. Drek Thar struck the first blow but in the end someone must take responsibility for fellow orcs and though treacherous in their attack, they followed the orders of their leader without realising what it cost them so they have to be looked after regardless rather than be turned away and banished. Leaving them on their lonesome is just irresponsible and possibly they can get back the valley or somewhere else in Alterac instead to settle in.

[x] The Frostwolf remnants will join you in your campaign against the Syndicate

@FractiousDay Grok will do the funerary arrangements I presume?
 
I think I missed something: when did Stormpikes and the frostwolf clan get into such negative relations that the shaman offered their blood for the elemental?
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
I think I missed something: when did Stormpikes and the frostwolf clan get into such negative relations that the shaman offered their blood for the elemental?
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Grok killed the shaman's son during the ambush.

Their bad relations with the storm pike's leader's account was the shaman saying the spirits told him there would be conflict so initiated hostilities just like he did with Grok.
 
rx915 said:
@FractiousDay Grok will do the funerary arrangements I presume?
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Next chapter but yea
rx915 said:
Their bad relations with the storm pike's leader's account was the shaman saying the spirits told him there would be conflict so initiated hostilities just like he did with Grok.
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To be fair, there's a difference between 'initiating hostilities' and 'blood of a thousand dwarves'
Somebodynobody10 said:
I think I missed something: when did Stormpikes and the frostwolf clan get into such negative relations that the shaman offered their blood for the elemental?
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One of the mysteries of WoW Classic I'm afraid. I suppose we might remark though that it was within Drek'thar's capabilities and was more of a nuclear option. Drek'thar perhaps made a deal of protection in case he ever needed it, sort of having the Ice Lord on retainer, rather than necessarily going out of his way to proactively summon him (at first anyway). In classic though, amazingly, supposedly Cairne had the idea of it:

I come from Thunder Bluff, <race>. Cairne himself has seen to it that I assist the Frostwolf Clan in these dire times.

But let us not waste any more time. You must strike down our enemies and bring to me their blood. Once enough blood has been gathered, the ritual of summoning may begin.

Victory will be assured when the elemental lord is loosed upon the Stormpike army.
 
People, please, we need those meat shields.

Look they're not going to stop being a problem in Hammerfall. If we give them something to do aside from stew on their shit luck we make them into assets.
 
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FractiousDay said:
12-8 to banish the frostwolves, will close this evening I think unless anyone objects.
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w34v3r said:
People, please, we need those meat shields.

Look they're not going to stop being a problem in Hammerfall. If we give them something to do aside from stew on their shit luck we make them into assets.
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People have busy lives. Though if you @ them to be annoying but it might switch a vote or two if you're persistent in trying to be convincing.

In retrospect I would've switched my vote to Drek Thar if I thought longer about it under the logic that the kaiju battle was chosen out of the need to keep Drek Thar alive rather than killing him to risk a Stormpike sneak attack. However I was indisposed having to start preparations to travel so I was more focused on that rather than the quest.
 
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