Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Wait, did Darkstorm the Goblin actually serve the burning blade or not? Did he perceive himself as still serving them or was that entirely a ploy?
Hey, that's one of the mysteries of the story that you're poking at.
I mean, I wouldn't dare to imagine that Neeru bundled together the people using Fel too openly, promising them his support, and then sent you to kill them and cut the loose ends, right? XD.
We have Scorn from that doomed band though, from what he said it seems they were genuine Fel bandits.

I very much like @rx915 's idea of using multiple people to gather information; even if we will be able to talk with everyone only afterwards. I will formalize it in a plan.

[] Hypothetical plan: send emissaries
- [ ] New Clan - Grok'mash
- [ ] Frostwolves - Grok'mash.
- [ ] Drum Fel told us to wait, right? We will wait, where we were / on in the main square.
- [ ] Warsong - Vark
- [ ] Darkspear - Vok'Fonn
- [ ] Some creepy dude hanging about at the back - Kartha
- [ ] Defilers - Castillian


[ ] New Clan, Frostwolves - Grok'mash.
They do have a role of spiritual guidance, right? Even if they don't, they are the clan of the Warchief. By taking New Clan + Frostwolves, we see 1) the will of the people 2) what Orc Panoramix the druids think.

Defilers - Castillian
Let's go with the obvious option, and just hope he doesn't get mind-controlled or convinced to back Forsaken supremacists. I would have sent Kel'dran, but the Forsaken would maybe open up only with another one of their number. This is open for change.
 
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The issue of Castillian I'm afraid of is he works for the Scarlets who would by nature take down none friendly undead after a rigorous process. Would these defilers see him as even worse for being a traitor the the cause of their existence? Would it be better for someone of the horde to handle it like Kartha?
 
Maybe you're right. And Kel'dran or Castillian could check Mr. Creepy Guy at the back.
Or Scorn. We do need a refined judge of the human sentient soul, and I think Scorn qualifies; he would even appreciate being picked for this kind of assignment
 
Don't go too much into micromanaging who talks to who, if it's obvious it'll be done, but you remain the leader of the expedition and should be the one talking to people really. If you went to talk to the warding then vark will be along as your brother etc because he's technically warsong, but as I said don't make this overly elaborate
 
If we take out delegation and assume Vark, Vok'fonn, and whoever else will speak to/persuade people of their own accord, I'd personally want Grok to talk to the Warsong and the Defilers. The Warsongs because they seem to be the most likely to be dissatisfied with a peaceful and/or lackluster existence at Hammerfall and the Defilers to see if they're interested in seeing an end to the scourge. I feel like any talking/negotiating with those likely to stay can be done with Drum Fel later, as the one person who can represent all of them.

That's my opinion as of right now, but I am interested in hearing other thoughts and opinions before voting for anything concrete.
 
[X] New Clan
[X] Warsong
[X] Frostwolves


I'm thinking something like this. The rest all seem minor players or just a gamble to go after. Our MC seems like he can pretty much only handle Orc's at the moment diplomacy wise so hopefully he can speak with the three orc sub factions without getting caught unprepared by the leader. Considering the state of Hammerfall I'm thinking the locals would be amenable to at least move back to horde territory safely just by having the MC use his scarlet crusade favor to get some ships of some sort to ship them over the sea. A good chunk I wager will be happy fighting the scourge as part of the war band so we can get back into that part of the campaign. Hopefully the forsaken are a minor presence otherwise it is going to be a issue, the scarlet crusade will want them dead and killing them ourselves I think will be a problem given Grok's honor code and the fact the forsaken are part of the horde. The darkspears will probably just go with the ork majority I think? I don't know much warcraft lore so that is hobbling my understanding somewhat. If we go south after this and grab the rest of the ogres I think that amounts to something like 80% of everyone the scarlet crusade wants dealt with and we can call it mission accomplished since the locals can deal with whats left.
 
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Will Grok be the good person to talk to the New Clan people? He certainly doesn't seem enthusiastic about their culture.
How do the New Clansmen themselves feel about human culture? Would they be happy to move to Alterac, or stick with the crusade? Heck, would they be up for Light convertion, or is it associated with shitty concentration camp life for them?

[X] Warsong
[X] Frostwolf
are the obvious choices to get to know what's the general situation in the camp is going to be. These are the big forces that will move things around, as in, the town makes it or breaks with them, the closest thing to a professional military. Darkspear are not from here, their obvious capacity here is as Horde agents, so whatever orders they'll get they're probably out of our hands. The Defilers can die again for all I care.

Seems like our pitch is pretty much this:

I have a warband, I will eventually return to durotar. The Horde wants you to get your shit together and re-enter the fold. The fighty types will probably join me and the local humans have given up on the camps and will probably wipe out everyone else after we leave, so everyone may as well join up either as fighters, or support staff. If you're really big on the whole peaceful farmer/builder thing, we can probably get a good chunk of you shipped back to either your clans, my clan, or the new clan in durotar, or set up your own clan in that region if you wanna give that a shot. Also if you could get me in contact with the local trolls that would be helpful, but not a requirement for anything.
Won't work, because Grok can't lie if his life depended on it, best he can say is that VARK will return to Durotar, Grok's officially an exile. And the local boss is ex-Kor'kron surrounded by Frostwolves, they may be up to (some) news on what the Warchief's orders are regarding Hammerfall.

Like... This is honestly a problematic situation for our low-diplo hero, because if Thrall wants Hammerfell around for whatever reasons, and Grok'mash here removes the town from the map on behalf of the Alliance, his exile may rank up from "political bullshit to save face" to "actual traitor to the Horde" levels.
 
Well then he should have said something. As far as we know Hammerfell exists beyond his authority, we're essentially consolidating clans under horde affiliate banners, i.e. the Horde's fucking job.
 
The Horde wants you to get your shit together and re-enter the fold.
Depends, I'll address this below
Is this where getting Feldad's help would be helpful?
In what way? I suppose there are indeed aspects he could help with but how would he do so from so far away?
Will Grok be the good person to talk to the New Clan people? He certainly doesn't seem enthusiastic about their culture.
He's not, because he's sort on the 'Old Horde' poltical spectrum, although his specific philosophy isn't directly that. He fundamentally doesn't really understand the idea that Orcs wouldn't be warring all the time, he understands that that's an issue in terms of geopolitics.

Having said that, Grok does understand that the Horde's social structure is changing. He's seen this with the struggles between Feldad and Thrall, so the New Clan represent a somewhat independant direction, they're not necessarily part of the same structures of power as anyone else.
How do the New Clansmen themselves feel about human culture? Would they be happy to move to Alterac, or stick with the crusade? Heck, would they be up for Light convertion, or is it associated with shitty concentration camp life for them?
They probably don't feel one way or the other. Fundamentally the Alliance won the wars, that's got to prove something. In terms of more complex elements of 'how do the new clan feel about agriculturalist feudal societies', that's a separate matter which Grok wouldn't really know about, and would also be somewhat difficult without actually surveying them. No doubt they can see the strengths of the alliance, but it's still very difficult for them to just swap cultures.

As for other elements of cultural conversion, that's also a complex matter. Historically, such as in Ireland or northern Scandanavia, when missionaries went in and tried to convert people they'd largely ignore it and profess Protestant faith but maintain their existing faith and practices. The Norwegians for example went round destroying the magic drums of the Sami shaman because even if they were supposedly Christian they maintained their existing faith. A 'conversion' of the Orcs here would likey lead to the same sort of thing, they'd view priests or paladins as just one of powerful magical beings they already talk to, just like how some Trolls view the Light as a Loa.

However, yes, there are a number of different perspectives on the Light among the Orcs, from thinking that it's sort of shamanism, to viewing it as a separate tradition like the Fel, to thinking its weak human magic, to other things.
These are the big forces that will move things around, as in, the town makes it or breaks with them, the closest thing to a professional military.
This is indeed an important factor, Hammerfall is certainly reliant on a wider Horde population in the area, without the Warsong and Frostwolves its just a town with little support structures. Maybe it could get on alright but the surrounding trolls would probably be able to destroy it.
Like... This is honestly a problematic situation for our low-diplo hero
Yep, I mean that's basically the point of this quest. I want make sure previous traits are respected. Grok isn't an idiot, but he's certainly not skilled in diplomacy or intrigue. In theory there's a 'perfect' deal between the Stromic forces, Orcs, Trolls and so on to 'resolve' the situation, but Grok wouldn't know of such a thing.
his exile may rank up from "political bullshit to save face" to "actual traitor to the Horde" levels.

Well then he should have said something. As far as we know Hammerfell exists beyond his authority, we're essentially consolidating clans under horde affiliate banners, i.e. the Horde's fucking job.
This will be revealed as things go on, but you wouldn't get the full picture unless you spoke to everyone obviously. As a diplo-encounter I want to play with incomplete information a bit
 
In what way? I suppose there are indeed aspects he could help with but how would he do so from so far away?
The goal is to get Horde members removed from Hammerfell with peaceful negotiations as the ideal. While Grok is the exile his dad isn't as well as his connections towards seeing any of the inhabitants if they're interested to immigrate to greener pastures.
 
Is the talk to the village boss action an end point or does it mean getting him someplace with slightly fewer witnesses and seeing what his thoughts are?
 
[X] Warsong
[X] Frostwolves


Well, I've decided on which groups to vote for. As the matter of influence within Hammerfall was brought up by Kir, I'm of the opinion that it's probably the best angle to work with as an opening move of diplomacy. The two clans seem to have enough influence to provide as a good source of info on Hammerfall and to have significant weight in any subsequent internal discussions/decisions of Hammerfall. Though I'm still curious about the Defilers' willingness to fight the scourge, that can probably be explored later.

While I'm fairly sure that between Grok and Vark the Warsongs can be convinced to lend their strength to our warband, I'm also curious to know what position the Frostwolves will take.
 
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[X] Warsong
[X] Frostwolf
These are the people Grok can diplomance without offending or just getting manipulated by.
 
IF Hammerfall is indeed there in de-jure human lands on the decree of the Warchief (who knows, maybe he wants someone to look over those Arathi elemental mini-Stonehenges, or maybe to spy on the Alliance, or even the Argus Wake) and they don't like us working with the Alliance trying to move them away, I hope Grok won't consider convincing whoever he can to leave and then leaving to be dishonorable. Because it is not.

As for the angles: the fight-y folks like those Warsong are guys we can expect to want to join some cool battles, and the coolest battles around are against the Scourge. They MIGHT have issues working for the Alliance, as the Warsong were the partisan/rebel Horde during the internment camps era, but considering the current state of Lordaeron, they should find some honor in fighting a common threat side by side with their former superior enemies.

The Frostwolf... I have no idea how much they know of the situation and what's their angle. The presence of a former Kor'kron indicates some relevance to the Warchief's eye. IIRC, Drum is "in retirement", but you know how it is with state security. There are no ex-agents.
 
The goal is to get Horde members removed from Hammerfell with peaceful negotiations as the ideal. While Grok is the exile his dad isn't as well as his connections towards seeing any of the inhabitants if they're interested to immigrate to greener pastures.
So as written, Grok knows Feldad has connections with the Shattered Hand and Blackrock primarily, as well as something going on in Desolace. However, that's as far as you know for the moment. Feldad is the Grand Warlock of the Horde, not the Minister for Immigration or something.

In general though, if you did want to call on your Clan to help out in various ways, yes that's possible. Remember though that you're working for the Scarlet Crusade/Alliance, not for the Horde (being an exile) and not for the Burning Blade (At least not officially)

Is the talk to the village boss action an end point or does it mean getting him someplace with slightly fewer witnesses and seeing what his thoughts are?
So you've just arrived, and want to make an impression in various ways. You've been given some tea and biscuits, and when your host (Drum Fel) gets back, Grok expects him to force some sort of confrontation about what you're actually there for, given you have an armed band. Similarly, it would be a bit awkward if you showed up and didn't have anything to talk about. You've arrived, the onus is on you to negociate or propose stuff. You a political actor, you're there for a reason, and both Grok and Drum Fel intend to speak in public with various matters like why you're there, why there's humans with you, what's going on generally.

Drum Fel has gone off to (probably) get more support, talk to others for advice, or to do something else, you don't know because you're not him obviously. If you went after him you could speak to him privately to establish various things, which might indeed be beneficial for you in various ways.

The actual negociations about you trying to sort out the problem you've been sent to sort won't be right now, but in the next couple of chapters.

IF Hammerfall is indeed there in de-jure human lands on the decree of the Warchief
If I was being unchairitable, I'd say the random scattered Horde settlements on the Eastern Kingdoms (Grom'gol, Kargath, Stonard, Hammerfall) are just one more result of Thrall's tendencies toward passivism and prevarication. Each of those places is there basically to keep an eye on certain situations or areas, but Thrall maintains his policy of almost 'anti-expansionism'. He's really really reluctant to even defend his lands because he's terrified of the Orcs going back to their genocidal habits, given most of his generals for example are Old Horde veterans.

As you note, there'll be a number of reasons the 'official' Horde might support Hammerfall, but I'd also note that the 'control' the Horde has isn't that extensive. Hammerfall is a settlement of convenience between Forsaken who are fighting the Alliance for resources, Frostwolves who want support in their struggles iwth teh Dwarves, Warsong/other clans essentially leftover from the 2nd War, and then perhaps some actual 'ex agents' as you say who mnight be there for specific reasons. The Horde just doens't have the same structure as other areas, so Thrall probably has only nominal overlordship of the area.

I hope Grok won't consider convincing whoever he can to leave and then leaving to be dishonorable. Because it is not.

He's there on a mission, if he gives it a good go honour is satisfied,




Also, to reiterate, just vote for people, don't worry about specifying deligation etc. Unecessarily complicates things really.

I'm intending for the chapter after this to be Grok's negociations, and subsequent action, through a narrative element, sort of like how I did the March of Forneus as mostly narrative with a few chocies. If anyone has a special request for me to put it to a vote and write in, that's fine, but it would be just that so you'd have to think of a plan etc.
 
So as written, Grok knows Feldad has connections with the Shattered Hand and Blackrock primarily, as well as something going on in Desolace. However, that's as far as you know for the moment. Feldad is the Grand Warlock of the Horde, not the Minister for Immigration or something.

In general though, if you did want to call on your Clan to help out in various ways, yes that's possible. Remember though that you're working for the Scarlet Crusade/Alliance, not for the Horde (being an exile) and not for the Burning Blade (At least not officially)
It doesn't have to be immediate. It's for consideration in the future when the status quo just isn't going to hold.

I'd say it can serve as a warning too for Hammerfell's inhabitants.
He's there on a mission, if he gives it a good go honour is satisfied,
I think he already did it helping out the Stromgarde prince and Sergeant's request.

Hammerfell meanwhile can instead be simply a warning to a request for volunteers to see what the humans have been up to.
 
Okay I've read up to the begining of Dreadmis Peak, where can I go to learn why the centaurs and orks have conflict with each other besides the resources at hand since presumably, they could trade with each other regarding what they are both missing?
 
Okay I've read up to the begining of Dreadmis Peak, where can I go to learn why the centaurs and orks have conflict with each other besides the resources at hand since presumably, they could trade with each other regarding what they are both missing?
Orcs went to Kalimdor, befriended Tauren, Centaur and Tauren are fighting.
Orcs help Tauren kick Centaur booty and defend Kodos.
Centaurs hate Orcs.
 
Ah, okay now I feel like I have half an answer? Why were the Centuars and the Tauren fighting and why did these orcs choose to aide the Tauren?
 
they could trade with each other regarding what they are both missing?

Why were the Centuars and the Tauren fighting and why did these orcs choose to aide the Tauren?
Yea its a pretty basic colonial conflict really. It should be noted that the Orcs aren't really interested in peaceful coexistance, they're accustomed to using war as a policy tool, they only came to Azeroth thorugh the Dark Portal (theyre aliens) because they needed more land etc, which in theory they could have traded for.

As for why the centaurs and tauren are fighting, that's also a pretty standard fantasy conflict. They just do lol.

The history of it though is that a forest spirit and an earth giant had sex and the centaur were the result, but they were so freaked out by... I suppose their existance... that they killed their father the forest spirit and subsequently have been filled with great rage... or something.

As for why the Orcs helped the Tauren, I don't recall if there's a specific reason, the Tauren are more chill than the centaur, and they were the weaker party, and maybe it was just a matter of the Tauren offering to be friends first.
 
Sounds like a bit of a confusing mess made by Blizzard to be honest, sorry if I've been a pest I am in fact enjoying the story, the thing with the centaurs just felt really weird compared to everything else I've read in this thread so far is all.
 
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