Er, do we, though? Why would we wish to support Athens in their folly?
And by we, I mean both we as players and we as in Eretria, which is an important distinction.

Athens is a friend of Eretria, amenable to trade and discourse, and a democracy. Sparta is the mother of Taras, and disdains us. Syracuse seeks to secure hegemony over all Sicily, and then all Italia. The latter two decimating the Athenian army and navy like in otl would put us into a fantastically precarious situation. I fear what a Tarantine-Syracusan alliance could do, especially when backed by elite Spartan hoplites and commanders.
 
Athens is a friend of Eretria, amenable to trade and discourse, and a democracy. Sparta is the mother of Taras, and disdains us. Syracuse seeks to secure hegemony over all Sicily, and then all Italia. The latter two decimating the Athenian army and navy like in otl would put us into a fantastically precarious situation. I fear what a Tarantine-Syracusan alliance could do, especially when backed by elite Spartan hoplites and commanders.

Elite Spartan Hoplites pictured here.
 
Athens is a friend of Eretria, amenable to trade and discourse, and a democracy. Sparta is the mother of Taras, and disdains us. Syracuse seeks to secure hegemony over all Sicily, and then all Italia. The latter two decimating the Athenian army and navy like in otl would put us into a fantastically precarious situation. I fear what a Tarantine-Syracusan alliance could do, especially when backed by elite Spartan hoplites and commanders.

Oh, yeah, Syracuse. Between Taras and Corinth, I completely forgot about the fact that we hate them the most.

Oh, yeah, Syrakousai. Screw those guys. Screw them the most.
 
@Cetashwayo - I wonder how long it would take to Hellenize our barbaroi. Or even just semi-Hellenize them. Is it possible to get that far with them? Would they all start out as metics, receive a mix of citizenship and metic status for their elites and plebs, or would we face our own version of the Social Wars?
 
@Cetashwayo - I wonder how long it would take to Hellenize our barbaroi. Or even just semi-Hellenize them. Is it possible to get that far with them? Would they all start out as metics, receive a mix of citizenship and metic status for their elites and plebs, or would we face our own version of the Social Wars?
I think the Social War was started mainly because Marcus Livius Drusus was thiiiiiis close to granting all Italians citizenship before getting assassinated.
But yeah. The fact that we managed to give out citizenships for Metics is already peculiar. If in the coming years we institute an Allied Barbaroi -> Metikoi -> Citizens progression, and then standardise that, wouldn't be too out of there I think.

Of course our enemies will put that as one more evidence that Furthest Eretria is becoming more and more Barbarianised. But who cares. Wait, didn't Athens did this with their Pelasgians/Lemnos too, or did I remember wrongly?

Edit: nope! They killed or enslaved all Lemnos people in this very war actually. Though I think paleontological evidence has the Lemnos people being migrants from Etruria/Tyrrhenians instead of the other way around.

Also, Herodotus is already active now, so lemme quote from him:
As for the Hellenes, it seems obvious to me that ever since they first came into existence they have always used the same language. They were weak at first, when they were separated from the Pelasgians, but they grew from a small group into a multitude, especially when many peoples, including other barbarians in great numbers, had joined them. Moreover, I do not think the Pelasgians, who remained barbarians, ever grew appreciably in number or power. (1.58)

So it seems Barbarians becoming Greek is not that... Unthinkable back in this era.
 
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@Cetashwayo I have a question regarding the league veto: Is it 2/3 of all members (6/8) or is Eretria exluded from that process (5/7)?
IIRC the veto played a role in the founding of Ankon. Will this increase league support for founding more colonies/trading posts throughout the Adriatic? Issa/Vis has already been mention in this quest and taking control of it would give us much more control over Adriatic shipping lanes.

Edit: Also a Greek history question: Can only citizens found a new colony? Or could we say send a bunch of loyal Metics to found their own colony?
 
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I think the Social War was started mainly because Marcus Livius Drusus was thiiiiiis close to granting all Italians citizenship before getting assassinated.
But yeah. The fact that we managed to give out citizenships for Metics is already peculiar. If in the coming years we institute an Allied Barbaroi -> Metikoi -> Citizens progression, and then standardise that, wouldn't be too out of there I think.

Of course our enemies will put that as one more evidence that Furthest Eretria is becoming more and more Barbarianised. But who cares. Wait, didn't Athens did this with their Pelasgians/Lemnos too, or did I remember wrongly?

Edit: nope! They killed or enslaved all Lemnos people in this very war actually. Though I think paleontological evidence has the Lemnos people being migrants from Etruria/Tyrrhenians instead of the other way around.

Also, Herodotus is already active now, so lemme quote from him:


So it seems Barbarians becoming Greek is not that... Unthinkable back in this era.

I now wonder what alt-Herodotus thinks of Eretria Eshkate.
 
In the eyes of the Italiotes, Eretria Eskhata is prone to sudden explosions of prominence on the diplomatic scene intermixed with periods of distraction somewhere else. This makes it a somewhat unpredictable diplomatic partner.

Today we learn that the other Italiote polis see Eretria Eskhata as essentially a large and rather excitable puppy, continually fascinated by new things, and apt to forget about what it was doing a moment ago when encountering a new exciting thing!


 
@Cetashwayo - I wonder how long it would take to Hellenize our barbaroi. Or even just semi-Hellenize them. Is it possible to get that far with them? Would they all start out as metics, receive a mix of citizenship and metic status for their elites and plebs, or would we face our own version of the Social Wars?

I mean in regards of a cultural assimilation he has dropped pretty clear hints of such a development throughout the quest, with Greek gods getting adopted or merged with existent ones and at the very least the elite adopting other trappings of Greek culture like the symposium etc. However that is a far way from getting accepted as an equal partner or valid candidate for anything equalling citizenship en-masse. And while I could see maybe getting some elites accepted that way in a few decades I don't really see any massive acceptance of (ex) barbarians happening anytime soon.

Honestly I don't think that trying to go at the issue via citizenship is the best way anyhow, I think we will find far more success via the league and outsourcing rights and duties that way.
 
Alternatively we could always come up with a way to suffer a serious defeat and then proceed to descend into a "tyranny" by a noble man who takes power thanks to the support of our barbarian allies and is thus open to such an idea and not necessarily limited by tradition and the like. A nice side benefit of that would be that I finally get the mercenaries I always wanted :p
 
Barbarians becoming Hellenised is pretty easy. The Peuketti are already well down that path. It's non-citizens becoming citizens is the big leap.
Yeah well we've been eroding that particular wall for some times now. And AFAIK most Barbaroi -> Hellenes transformation comes with the barbarics pretending to be wholly descended from some ancient hero themselves. Yes, this do includes the Romans and Aeneas (Troy, Aphrodite's son). Which means the Peuketii should be calling themselves sons of Orion soon (with deep groan from Hellas).

Honestly I don't think that trying to go at the issue via citizenship is the best way anyhow, I think we will find far more success via the league and outsourcing rights and duties that way.
Yeah, it seems Metapontine and other factions are terrified of us assimilating more polises into the Epulian League, what's with the city just... handing out privileges to its members. Perhaps they can taste the future if we're not stopped. And yes, ironically Sparte is perhaps the model we're chaotically going after, what with the exclusive citizenship being guarded by jealous Spartiates and the army being composed in half by allied Peroikoi anyway. Though with much more healthy relationships between all in our part.
 
Well, maybe if the Hellenization leads to the barbaroi casting aside their chieftains and kings in favor of democracy, we could admit them to the Epulian League as city-states? Each city governs how it dispenses citizenship after all, so that removes it from being a matter of controversy for us. The controversy instead would be admitting them as equals once deemed sufficiently Hellenized.
 
Skantarios laughs. When I heard you were injured, friend, I worried much: what would our august assembly be without our most spirited and outspoken psilloi? It is good to see that the fates have been kind to you, for your energy and earnestness are a balm to this gathering of impetuous youths and tired fathers. You have proven many times that lack of coin is not lack of courage.

I would propose that the Ekklesia recognize you as excellent among the psilloi. Is there a man tasked with this year's Running of the Weasels? If not, who better than our favorite psilloi to conduct this year's ceremony?

Is there a man among you who will lift my klefte?
Leukos the Accountant:

"I will lift your rock."
Excellent, we need only one more!

One brave citizen to step forth and honor the most outspoken and beloved of our psilloi! Who shall it be?
Then it is done! @Cetashwayo, we have our three klefte-lifters for a proposal to honor brave Hermesdora, best of the psilloi, and have him preside over this year's Running of the Weasels.
Fine, I will volunteer Arktos, as he raised the Weasel Banner. :V

But if he does not accept his due, then I will join!

Arktos, son of Arktos Arkadios, will also lift your rock!

Standing on the left flank, I personally witnessed young Hermesdora Eretriazenis pick up a Tarantine dart that had fallen at his feet, and running to nearly within spitting distance of the enemy, cast it back into their ranks, causing great confusion and fear with his bold action.

That he tripped and fell on his way back to our lines is of but little consequence.

Such bravery on the field of war is commendable indeed, and I can think of no finer man to wear the Stoat Mask and let the weasels loose to bring in the harvest!
 
Yeah well we've been eroding that particular wall for some times now. And AFAIK most Barbaroi -> Hellenes transformation comes with the barbarics pretending to be wholly descended from some ancient hero themselves. Yes, this do includes the Romans and Aeneas (Troy, Aphrodite's son). Which means the Peuketii should be calling themselves sons of Orion soon (with deep groan from Hellas).
Wouldn't that make them Irish?
Well, maybe if the Hellenization leads to the barbaroi casting aside their chieftains and kings in favor of democracy, we could admit them to the Epulian League as city-states? Each city governs how it dispenses citizenship after all, so that removes it from being a matter of controversy for us. The controversy instead would be admitting them as equals once deemed sufficiently Hellenized.
That'd be somewhat counterproductive for Eretria, as at the moment we stand as the fulcrum between the League and our barbaroi vassals, able to trade one off against the other for our favour.
 
*mutters something about 'chasing a popping weasel around a carpenter's bench' under his breath*
 
I now wonder what alt-Herodotus thinks of Eretria Eshkate.
Let's just make Herodotus still extant, just to make it easier on all of us. Also keep in mind that he's an Ionian, and for now still live inside the Persian rule, and his magnum opus is laser-focused on the Persian wars at any rate. Good thing our whole saga is inadvertently linked with it.

Some extracts from Herodotus of Helicarnassus' Histories:
The Great Ionian Revolt (OTL, 498 BC)
The Athenians now arrived with a fleet of twenty sail, and brought
also in their company five triremes of the Eretrians; which had joined
the expedition, not so much out of goodwill towards Athens, as to
pay a debt which they already owed to the people of Miletus. For in
the old war between the Chalcideans and Eretrians, the Milesians fought
on the Eretrian side throughout
, while the Chalcideans had the help
of the Samian people. Aristagoras, on their arrival, assembled the
rest of his allies, and proceeded to attack Sardis, not however leading
the army in person, but appointing to the command his own brother
Charopinus and Hermophantus, one of the citizens, while he himself
remained behind in Miletus.

[After the Ionians fled from Sardis as the Persians and Lydians regrouped and went back to the city in massive number]
Sardis however was burnt, and, among other buildings, a temple of
the native goddess Cybele was destroyed; which was the reason afterwards
alleged by the Persians for setting on fire the temples of the Greeks.
As soon as what had happened was known, all the Persians who were
stationed on this side the Halys drew together, and brought help to
the Lydians. Finding however, when they arrived, that the Ionians
had already withdrawn from Sardis, they set off, and, following close
upon their track, came up with them at Ephesus. The Ionians drew out
against them in battle array; and a fight ensued, wherein the Greeks
had very greatly the worse. Vast numbers were slain by the Persians:
among other men of note, they killed the captain of the Eretrians,
a certain Eualcidas, a man who had gained crowns at the Games, and
received much praise from Simonides the Cean. Such as made their escape
from the battle, dispersed among the several cities.

[After the end of the Revolt, 494BC]
The next spring Darius superseded all the other generals, and sent
down Mardonius, the son of Gobryas, to the coast, and with him a vast
body of men, some fit for sea, others for land service. Mardonius
was a youth at this time, and had only lately married Artazostra,
the king's daughter. When Mardonius, accompanied by this numerous
host, reached Cilicia, he took ship and proceeded along shore with
his fleet, while the land army marched under other leaders towards
the Hellespont. In the course of his voyage along the coast of Asia
he came to Ionia; and here I have a marvel to relate which will greatly
surprise those Greeks who cannot believe that Otanes advised the seven
conspirators to make Persia a commonwealth. Mardonius put down all
the despots throughout Ionia, and in lieu of them established democracies.
Having so done, he hastened to the Hellespont, and when a vast multitude
of ships had been brought together, and likewise a powerful land force,
he conveyed his troops across the strait by means of his vessels,
and proceeded through Europe against Eretria and Athens.

The First Persian Invasion (as OTL, 490 BC)
Thus did war rage between the Eginetans and Athenians. Meantime the
Persian pursued his own design, from day to day exhorted by his servant
to "remember the Athenians," and likewise urged continually by the
Pisistratidae, who were ever accusing their countrymen. Moreover it
pleased him well to have a pretext for carrying war into Greece, that
so he might reduce all those who had refused to give him earth and
water. As for Mardonius, since his expedition had succeeded so ill,
Darius took the command of the troops from him, and appointed other
generals in his stead, who were to lead the host against Eretria and
Athens; to wit, Datis, who was by descent a Mede, and Artaphernes,
the son of Artaphernes, his own nephew. These men received orders
to carry Athens and Eretria away captive, and to bring the prisoners
into his presence.

After [conquering Delos] he sailed with his whole host against Eretria, taking with
him both Ionians and Aeolians. When he was departed, Delos (as the
Delians told me) was shaken by an earthquake, the first and last shock
that has been felt to this day. And truly this was a prodigy whereby
the god warned men of the evils that were coming upon them. For in
the three following generations of Darius the son of Hystaspes, Xerxes
the son of Darius, and Artaxerxes the son of Xerxes, more woes befell
Greece than in the twenty generations preceding Darius- woes caused
in part by the Persians, but in part arising from the contentions
among their own chief men respecting the supreme power. Wherefore
it is not surprising that Delos, though it had never before been shaken,
should at that time have felt the shock of an earthquake. And indeed
there was an oracle, which said of Delos-

Delo's self will I shake, which never yet has been shaken Of the above
names Darius may be rendered "Worker," Xerxes "Warrior," and Artaxerxes
"Great Warrior." And so might we call these kings in our own language
with propriety.


[Conquest of Eretria; BUTTERFLIES start]

Meanwhile the Eretrians, understanding that the Persian armament was
coming against them, besought the Athenians for assistance. Nor did
the Athenians refuse their aid, but assigned to them as auxiliaries
the four thousand landholders to whom they had allotted the estates
of the Chalcidean Hippobatae. At Eretria, however, things were in
no healthy state; for though they had called in the aid of the Athenians,
yet they were not agreed among themselves how they should act; some
of them were minded to leave the city and to take refuge in the heights
of Euboea, while others, who looked to receiving a reward from the
Persians, were making ready to betray their country. So when these
things came to the ears of Aeschines, the son of Nothon, one of the
first men in Eretria, he made known the whole state of affairs to
the Athenians who were already arrived, and besought them to return
home to their own land, and not perish with his countrymen. And the
Athenians hearkened to his counsel, and, crossing over to Oropus,
in this way escaped the danger.

The Persian fleet now drew near and anchored at Tamynae, Choereae,
and Aegilia, three places in the territory of Eretria. Once masters
of these posts, they proceeded forthwith to disembark their horses,
and made ready to attack the enemy. But the Eretrians were not minded
to sally forth and offer battle; their only care, after it had been
resolved not to quit the city, was, if possible, to defend their walls.
And now the fortress was assaulted in good earnest, and for six days
there fell on both sides vast numbers, but on the seventh day Euphorbus,
the son of Alcimachus, and Philagrus, the son of Cyneas, who were
both citizens of good repute, betrayed the place to the Persians.
These were no sooner entered within the walls than they plundered
and burnt all the temples that there were in the town, in revenge
for the burning of their own temples at Sardis; moreover, they did
according to the orders of Darius, and carried away captive all the
inhabitants.

Now to continue Herodotus with my own sub-par writing:

But Darius will rage in the latter-days, for not all Eretrians have been captured in the soil of their forefathers,
lands retained through ancient heroism by their own ancestors and the first wars between leagues after the invasion
of Herikledeias. Indeed, Ambrosios managed to sail with the polis itself before the fleets of Phoenicians and Carians
could stop them. Therefore they did reenact the famous Odyssey in the coming weeks, the gods granting their rowers strength
in arms what their hearts couldn't; and by mistake or circumstances - and may be the will of Zeus and the Winds themselves,
they found themselves beached in a Barbarian city - Bare of the Peuketii, and even as they do what many Greeks couldn't and
raises the slaves and metikoi among them as citizens; they proved to the world that the Eretrians are still worthy of existence
by - led by an enfranchised foreigner, Herodion THE Mercenary -carving their names on the bodies of thousands of barbarians. It is also here that their peculiar insistence that Lady Athena
Parthenos (Virgin) marries Lord Apollon, even with the objections of the Oracles and gods-talkers. But their tale is the subject
of another, as their first few years are held in no regards by the affairs of Medes and Hellenes.

+++++

In the third year of the seventy third Olympiad (294 OL, 482BC) a Panhellene conference is held at Corinth, inviting all Hellenes
from all directions to discuss the threat of Medes. It is here that the Hellenes of the West first showed off their pride to the
mother cities, with Gelo of Syracuse and Eutropios of Eretria Eschata being their foremost prosecutors. Alas, the Phoenicians of the West
has designs on fair Sicilia, while Eretrians are still denigrated for their cowardry in the face of Medes a dozen summers prior.
However, the Athenians like Themistokles proudly says they first restored their archaic alliance with the city of Divine Marriage
in this very council, before it disbanded.

+++++

Eretria Eschata's Hundred arrived in Athens early in the year, to general welcome from the Atticans. But here the first sign of
Eretrians' inventiveness - found by energetic warring with the barbarian natives - are shown, with the slaves of all men being yielded
to the needs of the common formation, instead of his master. Many polis in our current time has adopted this measure also, and the
fame of Epulia continues to grow among the Hellenes - but again, this is a story of another tale. Regardless, these Hundred, even as few
they were, were not found wanting in taking revenge for the old city to the Medes.

+++++

This was where they made their great stand against the Persians, with Themistokles promising that if the Greeks did not immediately pull themselves together in the face of the Persian fleet, Athens would abandon them and sail "to our eternal friends Eretria, where we may join them in a blissful exile from this fractured land". It was quite convincing to the Greeks, and they finally fought together against the Persians at the end of the summer. The narrowness of the straits separating the island of Salamis from the mainland allowed for the Persian advantage in ships to be nullified, and in the end the battle was a decisive Greek victory. Again the Eretrian hoplites proved themselves extremely useful, boarding several Persian ships and impressing the Greeks with their sheer audacity- one Hoplite jumped between a sinking Persian ship and a Greek one.

Holy hells it's hard writing all these

Wouldn't that make them Irish?
Achaeans (Homer) - Wikipedia
The other common names are Danaans (/ˈdæneɪ.ənz/; Δαναοί Danaoi; used 138 times in the Iliad)
Danai was a woman, who according to the Greek mythology, was beautiful and charming, thus, mighty Zeus fell inlove with her. Her father put her in prison, in order to protect her from the Gods, because of an omen he had received, but Zeus transformed himself into rain and fell in the prison where Danai was held and made love to her. The result of this intercourse was Perseus, the renowned hero who killed Medusa.

Tuatha Dé Danann - Wikipedia
The Tuath(a) Dé Danann (Irish: [t̪ˠuəhə dʲeː d̪ˠan̪ˠən̪ˠ], meaning "the folk of the goddess Danu"), also known by the earlier name Tuath Dé ("tribe of the gods"),[1] are a supernatural race in Irish mythology. They are thought to represent the main deities of pre-Christian Gaelic Ireland.
:thonk::thonk::thonk:

Of course, this means that the irish are descended from Achaeans fleeing the wrath of Heracles' descendants :whistle:
 
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Yeah well we've been eroding that particular wall for some times now. And AFAIK most Barbaroi -> Hellenes transformation comes with the barbarics pretending to be wholly descended from some ancient hero themselves. Yes, this do includes the Romans and Aeneas (Troy, Aphrodite's son). Which means the Peuketii should be calling themselves sons of Orion soon (with deep groan from Hellas).

Orion would be a very interesting pick actually, given that the Boeotian poet Corinna ascribed to him no less than 50 sons. The stories of his life aren't too detailed, besides his birth in Boeotia, his misconduct against Merope and his death at the hands of Artemis. So the Peuketii could really go full hog and translate whatever barbaroi stories they have as 'Orion Originals'.

Of course I'm sure the Boeotians in Central Greece won't take too kindly to this usurpation of a cultural hero. Nor would Messsina in Sicily which has some stories about Orion sundering Sicily from the Italian mainland.

Of course, this means that the irish are descended from Achaeans fleeing the wrath of Heracles' descendants :whistle:

Clearly the Irish are descended from Scythian princes. Their fathers were builders of Babel and slaves in Egypt, friends to the Jews, lords in Galicia and Portugal and of late colonists of fair Hibernia.
 
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@Cetashwayo I have a question regarding the league veto: Is it 2/3 of all members (6/8) or is Eretria exluded from that process (5/7)?
IIRC the veto played a role in the founding of Ankon. Will this increase league support for founding more colonies/trading posts throughout the Adriatic? Issa/Vis has already been mention in this quest and taking control of it would give us much more control over Adriatic shipping lanes.

Edit: Also a Greek history question: Can only citizens found a new colony? Or could we say send a bunch of loyal Metics to found their own colony?

5/7.

When a new colony is founded all free settlers become citizens regardless of prior status. So yes, you can settle Metics.
 
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