Maybe that's why Metapontion has such low tier Soldiers. Vegetarianism and a lack of Stone Based Body building.

They don't even lift bro. :V
Leukos the Accountant:

"I strongly oppose the spread of their effete and non-lifting mystery cult to our city!"

[looks around for angry Pythagoreans with daggers]

"Also, should you have the misfortunate of encountering them, you do NOT want to talk to them about the square root of two. Leave the drama to the playwrights, that's what I always say!"
 
do we have any land trade route with our barbarian Subjects? i mean they must have have some goods we can buy cheap from them and sell it for a higher price to someone else
 
Hmm so I can see two potential paths towards that big league we wanted. Either we work to "expand" Epulia by splitting off some of the eastern Italiotes and have them identify with us. Or we try to reconcile Epulia with Italia and try to become the protector of the Italiote greeks against foreign threats. Of course this would require an Antipatrid foreign policy, taking attention away from both our subjects and the Adriatic.

And seemingly foreign threats since as @Cetashwayo says historically there weren't that many superpowers trying to get involved in this region in the near future. Granted there is nothing that prevents him from setting Carthage or Syrakous on a more expansionist policy, use the shockwaves of our actions to justify a greater barbarian threat or even do things like have the ill-fated Athenian intervention/invasion force land in southern Italy instead of Sicily. But from what it looks so far the most likely scenario seems to be them uniting against us which is somewhat ironic to say the least.
 
do we have any land trade route with our barbarian Subjects? i mean they must have have some goods we can buy cheap from them and sell it for a higher price to someone else

One of the ideas on the domestic slate for the Demos Exoria was encouraging the Barbaroi living in the interior to drive their bucolic herds of cattle to Eretria in spring and summer and hold a cattle market outside the city, creating a trade route:
  • Commercial Policy: For far too long the city has ignored the economic benefits that the Barbaroi could bring to the city with their herds of cattle. Create the Office of Barbarian Commerce under the command of the Proboulos in order to manage the Barbaroi as an economic unit, negotiating deals with chiefs to drive their herds towards the city in the spring and summer [-3 talent per turn cost for office salaries, +1 overland staple trade route after four years, better economic relations with the Barbaroi].

Personally, I think this is a really good idea, and cattle markets tend to be the kind of large movement that other trade cycles get built around, so it could probably form the foundation of more trade. Whether through voting in the next election if it reappears on the slate, or a user motion, I would like to see us doing this. Additionally, I think there are great synergies here if we establish a saltworks at Lake Salpia.

The inland barbaroi like the Peuketii and Mesapii do not have easy coastal access, so we could establish inland trade routes to sell them salt at good prices, right along the cattle routes, which is probably another staple trade route by itself. On top of that, given they have large herds of cattle, they have large amounts of milk, and salt can be used to make cheese. So they could also buy our salt and then bring us cheese when they come to trade in spring and summer, further increasing the potential benefits to everyone.

Once these kind of large scale, seasonal trade routes get up and running, there's then enough throughput to develop trade in smaller quantities of valuable finished goods, like metalwork, jewellery and pottery.
 
One of the ideas on the domestic slate for the Demos Exoria was encouraging the Barbaroi living in the interior to drive their bucolic herds of cattle to Eretria in spring and summer and hold a cattle market outside the city, creating a trade route:

Personally, I think this is a really good idea, and cattle markets tend to be the kind of large movement that other trade cycles get built around, so it could probably form the foundation of more trade. Whether through voting in the next election if it reappears on the slate, or a user motion, I would like to see us doing this. Additionally, I think there are great synergies here if we establish a saltworks at Lake Salpia.

The inland barbaroi like the Peuketii and Mesapii do not have easy coastal access, so we could establish inland trade routes to sell them salt at good prices, right along the cattle routes, which is probably another staple trade route by itself. On top of that, given they have large herds of cattle, they have large amounts of milk, and salt can be used to make cheese. So they could also buy our salt and then bring us cheese when they come to trade in spring and summer, further increasing the potential benefits to everyone.
And then we could invent saganaki and begin greedily devouring burning cheese!

I like this plan.
 
That actually makes me wonder, @Cetashwayo. One of the things that caused our citizens to be dissatisfied about our city is that we ate meat less often than the other Italiote cities. Where are we on meat consumption? Just curious.
Maybe that's why Metapontion has such low tier Soldiers. Vegetarianism and a lack of Stone Based Body building.

They don't even lift bro. :V
It is called lithliftocracy for a reason :u
 
That actually makes me wonder, @Cetashwayo. One of the things that caused our citizens to be dissatisfied about our city is that we ate meat less often than the other Italiote cities. Where are we on meat consumption? Just curious.

And now I have food based questions.

@Cetashwayo, fish is the main source of protein for all the people with coastal shorelines, right? And tweezers are already present by the time of the quest, right?

So we got smoking houses, fishermen...can we introduce and export salted or smoked boneless fish 2500 years early? Japan invented boneless fish only in 1998.
 
And now I have food based questions.

@Cetashwayo, fish is the main source of protein for all the people with coastal shorelines, right? And tweezers are already present by the time of the quest, right?

So we got smoking houses, fishermen...can we introduce and export salted or smoked boneless fish 2500 years early? Japan invented boneless fish only in 1998.

Why would we do that?

Garum - Wikipedia is a much more civilized culturally appropriate way to prepare fish.
 
And now I have food based questions.

@Cetashwayo, fish is the main source of protein for all the people with coastal shorelines, right? And tweezers are already present by the time of the quest, right?

So we got smoking houses, fishermen...can we introduce and export salted or smoked boneless fish 2500 years early? Japan invented boneless fish only in 1998.
I'm sure we could export salted fish, the problem being that most of the people we could export salted fish TO already have their own fishing industry, since pretty much any place with a port will have fishing boats.

We could ship salted fish inland, but that runs into the usual problems of inland transportation being agonizingly expensive, and doubly so with our shitty alleged roads.
 
Then Alps glacier ice reselling via the Enetoi? That is a thing before refrigeration.
Requires better overland and shipping infrastructure, cheap and readily supplied sawmills to provide the sawdust to insulate, and requires better ships for hauling sufficient cargoes as well as shiphandling for being able to sail faster to reduce losses from melt.

Seriously, this "pluck random anachronisms to try to force-insert an advantage into the quest" is really annoying, why do people insist on doing this? I'm not just meaning you, kilopi505, you're far from the first person even in the past week to do this.
 
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I agree. Instead of identifying some future advantage and trying to plot a path to there from here, it would more suitable to consider our situation and, more importantly, the mindset of an Eretrian and see what can develop naturally from our current position.
 
I agree. Instead of identifying some future advantage and trying to plot a path to there from here, it would more suitable to consider our situation and, more importantly, the mindset of an Eretrian and see what can develop naturally from our current position.

Ok.

We just fought a war that relied a lot on psiloi. Our allies also have a lot of skirmishers.

That means lots of javelin makers. Maybe more than any single polis have inside their territory.

So let's export javelins in pseudo-industrial amounts.

Edit:
Come to think of it...why stop at javelins? Helmets too. And lead slingstones. Shields and swords probably? Axes should be a must.
 
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I agree. Instead of identifying some future advantage and trying to plot a path to there from here, it would more suitable to consider our situation and, more importantly, the mindset of an Eretrian and see what can develop naturally from our current position.
Well, big candidates are the salt trade from that lake up near Dauni territory, and the amber trade from proto-Venice.

Ok.

We just fought a war that relied a lot on psiloi. Our allies also have a lot of skirmishers.

That means lots of javelin makers. Maybe more than any single polis have inside their territory.

So let's export javelins in pseudo-industrial amounts.

Edit:
Come to think of it...why stop at javelins? Helmets too. And lead slingstones. Shields and swords probably? Axes should be a must.
Arms export is always a good deal IF you have a reputation for metalworking and craftsmanship. Do we?
 
Well, big candidates are the salt trade from that lake up near Dauni territory, and the amber trade from proto-Venice.

Arms export is always a good deal IF you have a reputation for metalworking and craftsmanship. Do we?

That's why javelins are my proposed export.

We just fought a war where skirmishers had a main role, lots of javelin makers should be an effect of that. Let's use that accidental military industrial complex now.

Also, we're not going for craftsmanship or metalworking. We go for numbers.
 
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The arms trade as an international moneymaker is a phenomenon that emerged in the early modern period due to the technical requirements and military need for musket weapons. There were certainly luxury weapons being traded back and forth, but this would be part of a larger trade in finished metal goods, not a mass manufactured weapons industry. And besides, the premier metalworkers of the period are the Etruscans and the Gauls, not you.
 
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That's why javelins are my proposed export.

We just fought a war where skirmishers had a main role, lots of javelin makers should be an effect of that. Let's use that accidental military industrial complex now.

Also, we're not going for craftsmanship or metalworking. We go for numbers.
Javelins are dirt cheap. Why would anyone bother buying from us?
 
So, your proposal is that we export pointy throwing sticks. A whole bunch of pointy throwing sticks. I think not.

We have too much unfinished business with our Dauni foes and our Messapii friends to pursue anything too drastically new, I feel. Not to mention the the Hill of the Divine Marriage. Let's focus on them for now, shall we?
 
I think instead of industries, we should focus on agriculture and animal husbandries, i.e. stronger and bigger horses, pack mules and donkeys for trade and supply trains
 
The arms trade as an international moneymaker is a phenomenon that emerged in the early modern period due to the technical requirements and military need for musket weapons. There were certainly luxury weapons being traded back and forth, but this would be part of a larger trade in finished metal goods, not a mass manufactured weapons industry. And besides, the premier metalworkers of the period are the Etruscans and the Gauls, not you.

That's why I proposed the quantity route.

So, your proposal is that we export pointy throwing sticks. A whole bunch of pointy throwing sticks. I think not.

We have too much unfinished business with our Dauni foes and our Messapii friends to pursue anything too drastically new, I feel. Not to mention the the Hill of the Divine Marriage. Let's focus on them for now, shall we?

How about the chance to help determine who wins the Pelopponesian war? You passing that up?

Here's my thinking. Suppose a psiloi as a standard carries 3 javelins. So if we export 10,000 javelins, that is 3300 + extra psiloi on the field for whoever we sold the javelins to. 20,000 javelins would be 6600 + psiloi.

That's not worth it? The chance to play king maker?
 
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That's why I proposed the quantity route.



How about the chance to help determine who wins the Pelopponesian war? You passing that up?

Here's my thinking. Suppose a psiloi as a standard carries 3 javelins. So if we export 10,000 javelins, that is 3300 + extra psiloi on the field for whoever we sold the javelins to. 20,000 javelins would be 6600 + psiloi.

That's not worth it? The chance to play king maker?

Won't help - manpower's the bottleneck here
 
That's why I proposed the quantity route.



How about the chance to help determine who wins the Pelopponesian war? You passing that up?

Here's my thinking. Suppose a psiloi as a standard carries 3 javelins. So if we export 10,000 javelins, that is 3300 + extra psiloi on the field for whoever we sold the javelins to.

That's not worth it? The chance to play king maker?

Gods save me from overenthusiastic psillois!

Let us get our house and city in order by appeasing the gods in building the Divine Hill and watch put for those Dauni barbaroi before we do some of that kingmaking business!

And I have an idea what to do with this booty I got!

- Iskandar Xanatos
 
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