So finally catching up with the UPDATE:
i regret nothing
This is really sweet.
i regret nothing
This is really sweet.
Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
-
- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
To you, noble Kleon, I would respond as such: that such a time is precisely when we are most at risk of embroiling ourselves in a political dispute we had no intention to involve ourselves in and is thus a particularly bad time to also be first attempting to determine what political disputes might even exist for us to fall into, that our colonial plans do not involve Etruscan land but do in fact involve Enetoi and potentially Histri land, that numbers are quite important when it comes to mounting a blockade or preventing fleeing ships from escaping a battle, and that as traders and fishermen who actually live in the region and have had dealings with the Liburni since long before the founding of our nation the Enetoi and Histri are far more likely to have knowledge of local waters than newcomers like ourselves or a land-focused power such as the Etruscans.
Also, the Etruscans are neither Hellenized enough for Obander to be at his most effective nor barbaroi enough for Mnemnon's gift with those peoples to fully apply. They are far closer in nature to the Carthaginians, the Persians, or the Egyptians in that they are an alien but civilized people and must be dealt with as such, not as fellow Greeks nor as merely barbaroi with pretensions.
- Location
- Luton Airport
@Cetashwayo there doesn't seem to be anything preventing us going for a terror blitz along the lines of Iron Ram next year should Wooden Walls fail to draw out the Liburnians sufficiently?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
The relative surprise and time will be lost. While the Liburni will know you're coming this year they don't really know the scope, plans, or capability of your forces. By next year they'll be well aware of it and have made an effort to fortify themselves in higher ground ahead of another expedition. Your newfound Adriatic allies will also be uninterested in a multi-year commitment. If Wooden Wall fails to draw the Liburni out, then as with Taras Linos will probably attempt an aggressive but less extensive offensive action than Irenaeos.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
SKANTARIOS: Phokion, Phokion, we are all sick of Phokion.
I back Methodios, but would urge others in the Assembly and their kleftes to rally around an alternative to Phokion. This present pattern where the man gives a speech and citizens fall over themselves to support it-- without much discussion of their own-- is unhealthy for the Assembly and for Eretria.
[X] Plan The Labyrinth Has But A Single Exit
I back Methodios, but would urge others in the Assembly and their kleftes to rally around an alternative to Phokion. This present pattern where the man gives a speech and citizens fall over themselves to support it-- without much discussion of their own-- is unhealthy for the Assembly and for Eretria.
[X] Plan The Labyrinth Has But A Single Exit
So you are saying we should wait for a Skippy-wagon?
Choo choo!
In all seriousness I've just been super busy lately, which is a shame because this update is a MONSTER. Voting or plan-making may have to wait a while, if indefinitely, sadly.
My main feelings right now, looking at the vote, are:
(1) Sicily seems like a really complex issue, and I'm not certain yet what my preferred course is. Honestly I feel like the thing most consistent with our ideals of diplomacy and better fraternity amongst Hellenes might be to go for the united Sicillian League option, where diplomacy replaces hegemony. However, @Cavalier's policy seems carefully considered, with each part working to support the others, which may be more important than idealistic aspirations. So I'd want to think more on that.
(2) It seems to me that we are missing a lot of the opportunities of the colonial citizenship policy if we limit it to lotteries. Preventing individual citizens from accidentally pissing off the locals by founding colonies, and the league policy; all that seems reasonable. But the huge draw and real genius of the colonial citizenship program was that it would address the issue of our urban poor, and turn them into colonists strengthening our commerce, seapower and Adriatic presence. We hit two birds with one stone.
Our poorer Metics are a real social problem in the making, and we can all see that, so I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to go full force. We have word of @Cetashwayo that it would not reduce our population, just lower the growth rate a bit, so that should not be a concern. Limiting the citizenship just seems to be essentially deliberately hamstringing ourselves, and whilst unrestricted emigration might be risky if it were combined with anyone founding colonies, without that, I'm really bemused as to why people are perceiving a non-existent risk there. Dealing with the inequality that has been an unavoidable consequence of our prosperity, and bring more prosperity in doing so, is just such an unambiguous win here.
With those observations aside though, the bandwagon seems good. Linos seems the right man to lead the campaign as it was essentially his brainchild, and he has experience fighting the pirates. The Enetoi seem like good people to build ties with generally.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
To expand a little bit on two goals of my plan, I see the lottery option as a way to maintain full control over our colonial projects, and my goal in regard to Sicily is to drive a massive wedge between Syracuse and every other polis on the island.
For the former, the advantage of a lottery is that we can adjust the number of available colonial slots based on both unrest at home and on how many people first our initial provisions and then the produce of the colony can support. It lets us keep the growth of those colonies controlled until they're stable enough to not be threatened by a sudden vast influx of settlers they can't feed and who will inevitably spill out into the countryside and thus jeopardize whatever arrangements we might have come to in order to keep our new colonies unmolested by the local barbaroi.
For the latter, by keeping the Athenians out we can keep this Congress as a matter focused entirely on Sikeliote affairs without it being dragged into becoming just another front of the Peloponnesian War, and also hopefully keep Athenian attentions focused south against Sparta and east against Persia rather than just handing them a ready-made in to our part of the Hellenic world. Then, with my other two choices, we gain the support of the people actually hosting the conference and thus some ability to dictate how it proceeds, followed by presenting Syracuse with a deal that either reduces them to just one more polis in a general Sikelian League with no more power in its deliberations than any other member, or forces them to openly state that they find any deal that doesn't put them on top of the other Sikeliotes as unacceptable and then make one last play for domination before the rest of Sikelia more firmly unites against them.
Essentially, I don't see our choices as being between two different wars and one peaceful method to unite Sikelia. I see our choices as being between three different wars that end with a unified Sikelia, and the one I picked is the one where that war is against Syracuse.
For the former, the advantage of a lottery is that we can adjust the number of available colonial slots based on both unrest at home and on how many people first our initial provisions and then the produce of the colony can support. It lets us keep the growth of those colonies controlled until they're stable enough to not be threatened by a sudden vast influx of settlers they can't feed and who will inevitably spill out into the countryside and thus jeopardize whatever arrangements we might have come to in order to keep our new colonies unmolested by the local barbaroi.
For the latter, by keeping the Athenians out we can keep this Congress as a matter focused entirely on Sikeliote affairs without it being dragged into becoming just another front of the Peloponnesian War, and also hopefully keep Athenian attentions focused south against Sparta and east against Persia rather than just handing them a ready-made in to our part of the Hellenic world. Then, with my other two choices, we gain the support of the people actually hosting the conference and thus some ability to dictate how it proceeds, followed by presenting Syracuse with a deal that either reduces them to just one more polis in a general Sikelian League with no more power in its deliberations than any other member, or forces them to openly state that they find any deal that doesn't put them on top of the other Sikeliotes as unacceptable and then make one last play for domination before the rest of Sikelia more firmly unites against them.
Essentially, I don't see our choices as being between two different wars and one peaceful method to unite Sikelia. I see our choices as being between three different wars that end with a unified Sikelia, and the one I picked is the one where that war is against Syracuse.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
@Cetashwayo
Are the lotteries for colonization going to be all citizens, or do you have to enter to be drawn? If it's a general lottery of all citizens, and your name is drawn, are you required to join the colony?
Are the lotteries for colonization going to be all citizens, or do you have to enter to be drawn? If it's a general lottery of all citizens, and your name is drawn, are you required to join the colony?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Citizens and Metics, they enter their names in the lot.
Looking at the options more closely, the fact that the lottery is specifically for the landless whilst the unrestricted immigration is pay-your-way makes it somewhat more balanced in my eyes. The lottery is a bit more specifically aimed at our landless poor, which is the object of the policy.
Admittedly the passage for a short hop across the Adriatic is unlikely to be prohibitive even for our tenant labourers; it will just cost them most of their material wealth or savings.
Admittedly the passage for a short hop across the Adriatic is unlikely to be prohibitive even for our tenant labourers; it will just cost them most of their material wealth or savings.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
The passage is subsidized.
Ah, well in that case, I'm still strongly in favour of the unrestricted route. Robust growth in our colonies and trade, and alleviating our landless poverty at home.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
@Cetashwayo, just to clarify, I'm not completely misreading the final option at the Congress of Gela? Because I'm definitely under the impression that this is the "either force Syracuse to accept massive limitations on its ability to dominate Greek Sicily or provoke them into a war where they'd be deeply unsympathetic aggressors against pretty much everyone else on the island" option.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Effectively, yes. It would make the peace far more permanent and give teeth to the congress to punish any Sicilian city for breaking that peace.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
From somebody who come more from the historical strategy games side of things and doesn't know quest nearly as well, how are plans working exactly?
Do each option still gets its votes weighted seperately, with plans only helping vote more quickly, or do the plan who get the most vote automatically win, even if some of his options are opposed by a majority of voters?
Do each option still gets its votes weighted seperately, with plans only helping vote more quickly, or do the plan who get the most vote automatically win, even if some of his options are opposed by a majority of voters?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Whichever plan gets the most votes wins. I'm honestly not a big fan of plan votes and this vote is showing why I was right not to be a fan of them, but unless people would prefer it I don't really want to retake the vote. I had thought it might be best to use plan votes because of the complexity of votes but it's just kind of killed discussion instead.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, an overabundance of plan votes almost always leads to a few "Plan Guys" competing for votes because no-one else gets everything that's going on.
If you wanted to avoid the problem of us accidentally voting in un-syngerized options because of a split vote, you could have just had, say, the military options be plan voted together and the rest be normal votes.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
There are some quests where big plan votes are useful, and spark discussion, but they tend to be write-in heavy quests. Here, though, there's just an interlocking series of set options that while they theoretically could have a bunch of different combinations, in practice, there's maybe four actual options, and then a few points where "irrelevant" details might differ.
For example, while the three sets of two options for the Colonization vote might seem like it'd give six possible results, in practice, it's one question "Do you want speed or security in your colonization?"
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Yeah, that seems clear.
Turn 8, 352 OL: Vote Redo
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Okay, so the plan voting didn't quite work out like I had hoped, and honestly after some thought it might be better to just retake the vote so that people can better discuss the individual options. I've never been a big fan of plan voting and the reason why is obvious here; it creates too much of an incentive to go towards a single plan, or two separate plans, and therefore creates a lot of messiness and disorder. It also reduces focus on individual parts, which is fine with a lot of voting options, but we're still not at that point, and not all these options are necessarily synergizing, so it's not as big a deal. I normally wouldn't have the vote redone, but I felt that in this case it was important enough , and not enough people had voted yet, so it was still okay to.
In the past, people have been pretty good at switching their votes for better synergies, so I might as well just trust in the voters rather than mandating plans.
Every vote before this post is now null and void. My apologies again for this, and thanks to everyone who made the effort to vote or make their own plan. For reference, here are the votes for this turn, and you can find the turn-post at the previous threadmark. Also for reference to those who voted for it, the most popular plan vote, by @Cavalier, was here.
Voting is now done as before. When voting, please copy out vote text in its entirety in order to preserve the coherency of the vote. That includes the word with the vote brackets.
No plan votes; if you want to vote for someone else's plan in its entirety, copy and paste their votes. If you're copy and pasting your old plan vote, remember to remove the dashes for the sub-votes and remove the plan name!
Colonial Ambitions
How should colonists be selected from among the citizens of Eretria?
[] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
[] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
How should the city plan colonization and organize the founding of new colonies?
[] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
[] [Colonization] Allow any citizen organize a colonial expedition with Assembly approval [Worse relations with local powers, more chance of citizen-led colonies].
How should the political control of new colonies be organized?
[] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
[] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
The Congress of Gela
What should be done about the presence of Athenai at the Congress of Gela?
[] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
[] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
Which Sicilian polis should Obander be focused on pushing towards neutrality before the conference?
[] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
[] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
In order to ensure Sicily does not erupt into war again for a longer period of time, what should be done to maintain a Sicilian peace?
[] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
[] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
[] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
The Liburnian Expedition
Which local Adriatic power should Obander Eupraxis visit and appeal to for support against the Liburni and Iapodes?
[] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
[] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
[] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
To which Strategos should Eretria entrust the Liburnian expedition to?
[] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4
Known for his friendliness which he uses to lead men to battle, as well as his courage. A man of glory who won recognition as an Ekdromos defeating Illyrians in battle as well as Messapii as a young man. Known for being freewheeling in his tactics, genial and inspiring in battle, and innovative in his tactics. The naval commander during the war against Taras with impressive victories against the
[] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
A man of much moderation, known in the past for his leadership against pirates in the Adriatic. Wealthy and kind, he has devoted much of his life to assisting the Eretrian poor rather than building great works. He is known for his preference for avoiding battle in favor of more methodical and careful tactics, but what was once assumed for cowardice has become heroism after his success in the Tarentine War.
In the past, people have been pretty good at switching their votes for better synergies, so I might as well just trust in the voters rather than mandating plans.
Every vote before this post is now null and void. My apologies again for this, and thanks to everyone who made the effort to vote or make their own plan. For reference, here are the votes for this turn, and you can find the turn-post at the previous threadmark. Also for reference to those who voted for it, the most popular plan vote, by @Cavalier, was here.
Voting is now done as before. When voting, please copy out vote text in its entirety in order to preserve the coherency of the vote. That includes the word with the vote brackets.
No plan votes; if you want to vote for someone else's plan in its entirety, copy and paste their votes. If you're copy and pasting your old plan vote, remember to remove the dashes for the sub-votes and remove the plan name!
Colonial Ambitions
How should colonists be selected from among the citizens of Eretria?
[] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
[] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
How should the city plan colonization and organize the founding of new colonies?
[] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
[] [Colonization] Allow any citizen organize a colonial expedition with Assembly approval [Worse relations with local powers, more chance of citizen-led colonies].
How should the political control of new colonies be organized?
[] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
[] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
The Congress of Gela
What should be done about the presence of Athenai at the Congress of Gela?
[] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
[] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
Which Sicilian polis should Obander be focused on pushing towards neutrality before the conference?
[] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
[] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
In order to ensure Sicily does not erupt into war again for a longer period of time, what should be done to maintain a Sicilian peace?
[] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
[] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
[] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
The Liburnian Expedition
Strategy: The Wooden Wall
- Supporters: Demos Antipatria, Demos Drakonia
- Goal: Establish firm control of the archipelago around Issa and defeat any Liburnian response.
- Specifics: Cross the Adriatic and land on Issa and the southern Liburnian islands, establishing a harbor and fort as a base of operations in the region. Force the Liburnians to attack by utilizing allies to press them on land or sea, taking local communities hostage, and raiding their coast with squads of three triremes. When they attack, defeat them in a naval battle and sue for peace.
- Eretrian Forces: 18 Triremes, 500 Hieros Ekdromoi, 200 Psilloi.
Allied Forces: Dependent on decisions. - Campaign Length: 5 Months.
- Cost: 90 talents (Naval Upkeep), 5.1 talents (Army Upkeep), 15 talents (Island Forts) = 110.1 talents.
Strategy: The Iron Ram
- Supporters: Demos Exoria
- Goal: Plunge deep into the islands of the northern Adriatic and destroy Liburnian seapower once and for all.
- Specifics: Cross the Adriatic and begin a general raiding expedition that climbs up from Issa and the southern Liburnian islands all the way to the capital of Iadar and the islands around it, targeting settlements, burning ports, and destroying navies in their harbors, until the Liburnians concede defeat. Allies would support this general offensive either from the sea or on land.
- Eretrian Forces: 18 Triremes, 500 Hieros Ekdromoi, 300 Hoplites, 200 Psilloi.
- Allied Forces: Dependent on decisions.
- Campaign Length: 3 months.
- Cost: 54 talents (Naval Upkeep), 7.7 talents (Army Upkeep) = 61.7 talents.
Which local Adriatic power should Obander Eupraxis visit and appeal to for support against the Liburni and Iapodes?
[] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
[] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
[] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
To which Strategos should Eretria entrust the Liburnian expedition to?
[] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4
Known for his friendliness which he uses to lead men to battle, as well as his courage. A man of glory who won recognition as an Ekdromos defeating Illyrians in battle as well as Messapii as a young man. Known for being freewheeling in his tactics, genial and inspiring in battle, and innovative in his tactics. The naval commander during the war against Taras with impressive victories against the
[] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
A man of much moderation, known in the past for his leadership against pirates in the Adriatic. Wealthy and kind, he has devoted much of his life to assisting the Eretrian poor rather than building great works. He is known for his preference for avoiding battle in favor of more methodical and careful tactics, but what was once assumed for cowardice has become heroism after his success in the Tarentine War.
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dontpressenter
Irrational Philosopher
- Location
- An alternate universe not unlike our own...
I'd like to give the greatest of commendations to Timanthes Thymoetes, who not only is talented with his amusing plays, but conscientious enough to keep track of the various plans. Said efforts make it much more easier to identify points of conflict to discuss. This is helpful, especially since these types of votes tends to alienate all but the most meticulous citizens.
Now, back to consider the multitude of-
*voting system changes*
Okay then.
Now, back to consider the multitude of-
*voting system changes*
Okay then.
[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization]
[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization]
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
[X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
[X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
[X] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
[X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
[X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
A man of much moderation, known in the past for his leadership against pirates in the Adriatic. Wealthy and kind, he has devoted much of his life to assisting the Eretrian poor rather than building great works. He is known for his preference for avoiding battle in favor of more methodical and careful tactics, but what was once assumed for cowardice has become heroism after his success in the Tarentine War.
Don't see any reason to change what I'm voting for.
[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
[X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
[X] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
[X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
[X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
A man of much moderation, known in the past for his leadership against pirates in the Adriatic. Wealthy and kind, he has devoted much of his life to assisting the Eretrian poor rather than building great works. He is known for his preference for avoiding battle in favor of more methodical and careful tactics, but what was once assumed for cowardice has become heroism after his success in the Tarentine War.
Don't see any reason to change what I'm voting for.
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- Location
- Hell
This is fine
[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4
Now I can vote for the only thing I care abour.
[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4
Now I can vote for the only thing I care abour.